Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 enig_matic Nov 23, 2010 20:06:49	In 3.0/3.5, is there a way to remove (either temporarily or permanently) a creature's Ex Abilities? I've been looking, but I can't seem to find a way to accomplish this.
#2 cru Nov 24, 2010 6:09:43	Sarrukh have Manipulate Form (su). Serpent Kingdom.
#3 awaken_D_M_golem Nov 24, 2010 14:28:59	Wilder 12 with Metamorphic Transfer feat can get ahold of that ability. This means it "ought" to be within reach of a properly worded Wish spell. As in: 7th level spells happen at level 13 or 14. Wish can duplicate the effects of a 7th level spell. Consider that the Psi 9 Psychic Chirurgery can eliminate powers (or "powers'). This 9th level spell and that 9th level "spell" are doing something that's the same effect. Fits the similar power level clause of Wish. Might not even trigger a dm fiat retribution. I say it shouldn't, but that's just me.
#4 enig_matic Nov 24, 2010 17:16:46	Lol. Ok, so my DM definitely won't allow the use of Manipulate Form (if I had that, I wouldn't need to get rid of Ex Abilities, I could just buff myself around the clock). As for the use of Psi to Spell powers, they are alike when it is in favor of DM and not alike when they are in favor of player. Here's the rundown of what I'm doing: Bane of the Clockwork Monk to gain Improved Unarmed Strike and the Stunning Fist Feat, and the allowance to Critically nail Constructs Enlightened Fist to use spells (Gravestrike, I'm looking at you) with strikes Tiger Shen to create an Antimagic Field when I want to collide with most other forms of Critical hit protection   Disciple of Dispater to gain the Triple threat range Factotum to gain a second (or more) standard action each turn Warrior of Darkness to gain the use of a Full Round Action when I take a move action Green Star Adept to make my fist Iron, which allows them to benefit from the Disciple Ok, so here's the skinny: DM isn't too eloquent with this particular ruling, but basically, Magic is bad. We're in the 16th century "burn the witch" stage of life. He's allowed us to Gestalt all of our classes with Bard. And Bard only, so that's the only spell list that I have access to. We don't gain spells in the traditional sense, we have to experience or research the spell we want in some fashion and make a roll to determine if we can gain use of it. So, again, Spells are BAD...and a real pain to get a hold of. With everything that I've got going above (I still have to fully tweak where class levels are going as anyone with a good understanding of the classes listed and basic math, there's clearly some epic levels going on) I've managed to take out most everything except for Immunity to Critical Hits. Which (in all the texts I can find) is an Ex ability. If I can find a way to eliminate this from a creature, even at a cost of something per hit, that would be extraordinary. Ah, I should mention (for those that haven't figured this out) I'm using Improved Critical and Roundabout Kick to basically have an 80% to drop anything and everything I go up against. I would prefer to have a race of Catfolk to allow the use of Catfolk Pounce (With a high enough Initiative, I go first, charge -and overrun everything- a target, drop it, Catfolk Pounce allows a FRAtk Action, which kills everything now in reach. Factotum gains me another Action, which I will use to take a 5' step. This triggers Warrior of Darkness which allows me to charge again, crush everything, Pounce with a FRA) Not a loop, but the total movement is a 160' which should let me level everything on the map)  The only rules that I fully know of is: Magic Bad Race must be humanoid of sorts All WotC published books are Ok'd (3.0/3.5 is considered like enough to use)
#5 Omen_of_Peace Nov 25, 2010 6:08:29	I'd have said the easiest way is Baleful Polymorph, but you likely won't have access to it. I'm not aware of any ability allowing blanket removal of critical hit immunity. The weapon crystals in the MIC let you do that for constructs and undead, there's a spell for plants IIRC (Vinestrike?) but nothing for elementals & co.
#6 cru Nov 25, 2010 8:38:18	Well, next time you ask a question, try to be slightly more precise. You've listed a lot of options. How do you intend to fit it all into one build? You're obviously trying to build an unarmed (?) melee character, focusing on charging and critical hits. My advice is, don't bother with crits -- many things, especially on higher levels, are immune. There no such thing as blanket removal of Ex ability, just forget it. I would also recommend against unarmed strikes. As Omen of Peace mentioned, truedeath and demolition weapon augment crystal from MIC allow critting undead and constructs; however, you need to attach these to real weapons, not fists. Some comments: * Grave strike does not allow you to crit undead. * Enlightened fist does not allow you to cast grave strike. * Factotum can give you an extra standard action, but you actually only need a move action for Warrior of Darkness. You'd be probably better of using Belt of Battle (MIC) or Bloodspike:Tempo (Magic of Eberron) or Travel devotion (Complete Champion) * Catfolk pounce works only vs flatfooted. Get real pounce, dip lion totem barbarian 1 (Complete Champion)
#7 enig_matic Nov 25, 2010 16:03:45	Ok, I see. Well, you've answered my question perfectly. There is no blanket removal of Ex Abilities. I am aware of Catfolk Pounce's limitations, which is why I was using the high initiative. The Standard Action I was gaining from Factotum was going to be used to take a 5' Step, or a Move Equivalent Action, which would allow Warrior of Darkness to be all happy. I am unaware of what "real Pounce" is. Is that Two-Weapon Pounce? And looking over my poorly questioned thread, my REAL "question" would be: Help with this build? I've narrowed it down to this: Catfolk - Major Demon Bloodline 01. Factotum 02. Fighter (Variant from Drow of the Underdark) 03. Factotum 04. Factotum 05. Factotum 06. Green Star Adept 07. Monk 08. Warrior of Darkness 09. Disciple of Dispater 10. Disciple of Dispater 11. Disciple of Dispater 12. Disciple of Dispater 13. Disciple of Dispater 14. Disciple of Dispater 15. Disciple of Dispater 16. Disciple of Dispater 17. Factotum 18. Factotum 19. Factotum 20. Factotum Feats taken at level: 01. Catfolk Pounce 01. Combat Casting 02. Improved Initiative (Gained From Fighter) 02. Power Attack (Gained from Bloodline) 03. Roundabout Kick 06. Disciple of Darkness 06. Kung Fu Genius 09. Improved Critical 12. Font of Inspiration 15. Font of Inspiration 18. Font of Inspiration 20. Font of Inspiration Stats have yet to be determined, but they are to be rolled at a 5D6 drop the lowest 2. I have taken advantage of the ability to Gestalt with Bard to take the hit from the Level Adjustment and the Bloodline losses. We gain feats as per normal except we gain 1 extra feat at 1st and one extra feat at 20th. Any sort of feedback or fixes that can be thought of would be appreciated. And a thank you to those that have already posted.
#8 awaken_D_M_golem Nov 26, 2010 13:58:51	Technically the Bloodline takes the 3rd 6th and 12th level Class slots. You'd have to ditch 3 levels of whatever, then you get all the goodies of the Bloodline, plus the calculations of adding +3 levels to some of your abilities. "Some" ... as in have a confab with your DM. Does your DM not know that Factotum gets ~better casting than Bard, depending on your druthers ?! I does look like you're limiting it, so maybe it's not an issue.
#9 enig_matic Nov 26, 2010 18:35:07	Yes, I'm aware the Bloodline eats the 3rd, 6th and 12th levels, but Gestalt states that level adjustments and the like only affect one side of your progression. So, I ditched 3 levels of Bard. I'm sure my DM is aware that many things get better casting than Bard. I am able to progress in Factotum, but I won't receive any spells from taking the levels.
#10 darioth Nov 28, 2010 1:16:49	If you want to get rid of extraordinary abilities you can use the spells ability rip and remove trait from the serpend kingdoms book. Hope it helps.
#11 enig_matic Nov 28, 2010 18:55:48	And that is a giant thank you! Sadly, it's heavily DM dependent as I don't gain those particular spells, but with a high enough UMD, I hopes to find a wand or similar item. Thanks for making this work, Darioth!
#12 Maat_Mons Nov 29, 2010 13:05:01	I am unaware of what "real Pounce" is. Is that Two-Weapon Pounce? “Real pounce” is the pounce ability granted by the lion totem barbarian variant in Complete Champion. It allows a full attack after a charge without any other limitations. Yes, I'm aware the Bloodline eats the 3rd, 6th and 12th levels, but Gestalt states that level adjustments and the like only affect one side of your progression. So, I ditched 3 levels of Bard. I don't believe the gestalt rules mention LA at all. You'll want to ask the DM about it. Even if he allows LA to take up only one side, his house rule that one side can only be bard levels might really mean that one side can only be bard levels. You might not be able to take level adjustment on that side.
#13 awaken_D_M_golem Nov 29, 2010 18:09:09	OK, I think I get it. So post #7 is the left hand side of the build, and the right hand side is effectively: Bard 17 / Bloodline 3 That looks about right (or right enough) to me. And the bloodline stuff gets into the build like "normal".