Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bkdubs123 Oct 21, 2008 1:07:25	Is it even possible? I can't seem to find any ways other than Confound the Big Folk to use dex to trip, and that's not at all good enough. I mean, yeah it's pretty cool, but I need a way to take advantage of that whip's reach! Any ideas/suggestions?
#2 carnivore Oct 21, 2008 4:20:24	Master Thrower... Trip Shot trip at range.... use Exotic weapon(Kukri,or Sai) combine with Exotic Weapon master Close Combat ability :D
#3 Omen_of_Peace Oct 21, 2008 5:30:44	The Setting Sun throwing maneuvers (ToB) are your best bet. A spiked chain is unfortunately better but...
#4 jaronk Oct 21, 2008 6:08:40	If you use a rope dart or meteor hammer as a weapon, that might help. Those are at least vaguely whip like, though their use is quite different IRL. JaronK
#5 anders_rasmussen Oct 21, 2008 10:41:38	ShakaUVM wrote something about the Whip-tripper part some years back... Here it is: http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-931387 I've been working on the idea some months back, based on the Setting Sun, but the main problem seems to be: - the number of dex-trips you can make - the first levels before you can get the feats to make it work, your just not that effective I'm really looking forward to see if you can come up with something good - ill return with my build-stub if I can find it... There Anders
#6 bkdubs123 Oct 21, 2008 11:05:05	Hrm... looks basically like it's impossible then, for me at least. I'm trying to help optimize a whip-dagger wielding Fighter that a friend back home built. Ideally he would have been able to use Combat Reflexes and improved trip, but there's no practical way to get dex to the opposed roll in any consistent fashion is there?
#7 muertog Oct 21, 2008 11:05:37	Confound the Big Folk (RW p153) is of limited use to a whip-based dex tripper, since the feat says the character: 1) Must be 2 sizes smaller. 2) Must enter the opponent's square. There -should- be some sort of martial feats available... perhaps a monk substitution level?
#8 bkdubs123 Oct 21, 2008 11:16:43	His character is a Kobold with slight build so CtBF actually works really nicely, it's just not enough.
#9 bkdubs123 Oct 23, 2008 9:59:09	So confirmation? This guy's char is truly hopeless?
#10 anders_rasmussen Oct 23, 2008 12:28:03	More or less. You can use whip and dex, but only with Setting Sun. You can use whip and str all the way as normal, but I guess that doesn't cut it. You can use dex with CtBF, but not from af distance, so that's out. You could look in to a way of getting a more consistent use of the same few Setting Sun manoeuvre ? Thou, I'm not quite sure how...
#11 cravin Oct 23, 2008 14:48:33	Is it even possible? I can't seem to find any ways other than Confound the Big Folk to use dex to trip, and that's not at all good enough. I mean, yeah it's pretty cool, but I need a way to take advantage of that whip's reach! Any ideas/suggestions? There was a Thread floating around all about replacing one stat for another(IE using DEX in place of STR checks). It was a few days ago that I saw it. I'll be looking for it now, but you might want to start looking too. Good luck
#12 behindthecurtain Oct 23, 2008 16:32:37	So what IS the best way to build a whip using character? I've been wanting to make one for a while now because I really love the flavour of a character who fights with a whip or two. I realize optimization of a whip fighter can only go so far because whips are a little odd but I'm really stuck on using the whip. (read: please don't tell me the best way to make a whip fighter is to give 'em a spiked chain instead because I KNOW spiked chains are better but that's not what I'm interested in doing).
#13 playswithfire Oct 23, 2008 19:53:05	A dex and int based one would probably be something like Factotum 3/Fighter 1/Swordage 2 ... Factotum lets you use INT to trip instead of STR. Convince the DM that a whip-dagger is like a dagger and counts for Shadow Blade so damage is based on dex. You can also pick up setting sun maneuvers for if your DEX+4 beats your INT. Or something like that.
#14 peejay Nov 04, 2008 17:08:27	First of all, what level are we talking about? If you want to trip AND do serious damage, it's tricky. Unless (as posted above) you can convince the DM that a whip-dagger counts for a Shadow Hand weapon, there's not much you can do. What you can do is focus on successfully tripping, and rely on team-work for the rest. "I make it fall, you guys finish it off before it even stands up". Factotum adds INT bonus to strength checks (including the opposed check for tripping) on top of STR, doesn't simply replace it. That would normally be a good thing, but with a -4 Kobolds get to strength, we might be looking at a negative modifier here. Or not? What are the character's stats? If not, and considering INT isn't a dump stat (you need Combat Expertise for Improved Trip), 3 levels might be worth it. Another, cheaper option is Marshal, provided you have a nice CHA bonus (Cloaks of Charisma are mandatory). One level dip gives you a minor aura, and you can choose Motivate Strength: you add your Cha modifier to Strength checks and strength-based skill checks, for you and your allies. (Incidentally, I've just made a Factotum 3/Marshal 1 tripper, who trips better than a straight fighter - but I could do it because Lady Luck favored me with insane stat rolls, and I had 14 STR, 20 INT and 18 CHA. That's a total +15 to trip checks at 4th level...) However, both classes have medium BAB, and remember that you have to hit with an attack first before tripping (it's a touch attack of course, making things easier, but you can't dump your STR -or DEX with weapon Finesse- altogether). If you go Factotum, take Knowledge Devotion and the problem is usually solved. Either way, this needs a lot of feats to do just one trick. Weapon Finesse, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, these are absolutely necessary. Confound the Big Folk is great when you're not taking advantage of the whip's reach, while Combat Reflexes, Expert Tactician and Hold the Line for effective battlefield control would be handy too. The good part is that, if you do have a couple of tanks to work with, it's a trick that will work most of the times.