Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Jul 16, 2007 16:53:07	I have access to most books, but I have been unable to track down such a deity. Does one exist?
#2 indeterminate Jul 16, 2007 17:00:42	I have access to most books, but I have been unable to track down such a deity. Does one exist? Do you have to worship a deity? Be one of the "devoted to a cause" clerics and pick your two domains. I would assume that since you have no deity you could probably choose your own favored weapon.
#3 rilem Jul 16, 2007 17:02:03	Wouldn't help much, as the War domain gives you proficiency with a MARTIAL weapon.
#4 mittenninja Jul 16, 2007 17:04:33	Wouldn't help much, as the War domain gives you proficiency with a MARTIAL weapon. But if he already has proficiency then he gets weapon focus for free.
#5 Infinitive Jul 16, 2007 17:23:55	There is no such diety, at least as far as I know. I play LG pretty regularly, and the dieties reference guide they put out is several inches thick. Still, the only non-evil god with Spiked Chain as a favored weapon is some weirdo alien that is a god of knowledge and the waveform motion (I know, it's weird). There should be at least one evil god that favors the spiked chain, but I think he's a god of torture and pain, not war. Again, I haven't printed the bloody thing out because I don't care to burn up a whole ream of paper.
#6 tealgorthian Jul 16, 2007 17:34:34	Kossuth in FR has Spiked Chain as a favored weapon, but no War domain, unfortunately.
#7 crimsondeath Jul 16, 2007 18:09:31	I believe there's a Drow deity that favors the Scorpion Chain (and Scorpion Chains use Spiked Chain feats), but that one doesn't have the War domain either. In general, you probably won't find a deity that has the War domain and an Exotic favored weapon, because exotic weapons are, in general, better than martial weapons. Note, however, that the Favored Soul is automatically proficient in his deity's favored weapon, just in case you insist on free exotic weapon proficiency but aren't married to the idea of playing a Cleric.
#8 zombiegleemax Jul 16, 2007 18:25:17	Great. Thanks for the info everyone.
#9 cerret Jul 17, 2007 1:57:57	If you are in Eberron, Vulkoor (i.e. the Mockery) has the War Domain and grant proficiency with the drow scorpion chain which is practically identical to the spiked chain.
#10 aprophilix Jul 19, 2007 5:58:18	I think Pun-Pun, God of Optimization, has favored weapon spiked chain, and War, Magic, Travel, and Rock'n'Roll domains. Might want to check him out.
#11 lord_xarallon Jul 19, 2007 7:33:48	Zoser's (from sandstorm) favored weapon is spiked chain, though his domains does not include war.
#12 moskatyak Mar 29, 2008 17:20:58	A Cleric can make up his own "non-Deity Specific Way", and choose 2 Domains. If you choose War, You would then get to choose your Weapon (since you get to make it all up anyway.) Exotic vs Martial weapons is a slight hedge; because precedent exists for re-defining Exotic Weapons as Martial Weapons. The Dwarven Waraxe and Urgosh are Exotic Weapons; unless you are a Dwarf, then they are Martial Weapons. Nothing intrinsic about the weapon, more a situation of lack of familiarity with a weapon of unusual shape, balance, style (a chain is nothing like a club, sword, axe, or spear.) The Waraxe and Urgosh are common sights in Dwarven lands which is why all Dwarves understand their idiosyncrasies. Now, a Disciple of the Way of the Chain (Domains: War-Chain, Luck), should get a Martial Weapon Proficiency in Chain, since the Disciple's spiritual connection to the Chain is at least as deep as the Dwarves to their Waraxes. ..... Hunh?? .... PH p.31 "receives Martial Weapon Prof. .... if weapon falls into that category." Dammit. Any-whoo. Exchange Ftr-20th for Clr-1st: Way of the (Luck,War) and get: Fort & Will Save Boost, (1) Do-Over (luck), Weapon Focus, a few spells, and the ability to utilize Cleric Items (Hell Yeah!!!). At the cost of +1 BaB & 1 Feat Very Nice. Add a couple levels of Monk; and for another +1 BaB & 1 Feat Hit, you get: more Saving Throw goodness, unarmed strike, combat reflexes, evasion (!), Good skill selection if you take able learner but one less feat for chain synergy, no flurry or Wis to AC in armor (enh..?, light armor is better) you only need Ftr 12 for Gearter Specialize Clr1/Mnk2/Ftr16/Rngr(better?)1 (Rngr1 nets you almost nothing) Bab +18, Fort +17 , Ref +10 ,Will +10 Clr1/Mnk2/Rngr2/Ftr12/(ftr+3?)3 (Rngr2 Trade Feat for 2-Wep & Track) Bab +18, Fort +17 , Ref +11 ,Will +11 Hmmn... Strategic Class selection for 'chain feats' to acquire extra benefits. No bonus feats acquired and 1 'chain feat' lost to able learner (if taken). +5 all saves, and a bunch of extra goodness, for the loss of +2BaB Actually, Start at Rgr1 for optimal Skills. Any-whoo... I'm new to the Way of the Chain. I'm sure I'll find dozen's better once I've slogged through the reams, having only barely dipped a toe into the mire. -Moskatyak (muh)-(Ska)-(tee)-(ack) (cat)
#13 snizor Mar 29, 2008 17:25:58	The Heretic of the Faith (Power of Faurun) feat allows you to replace one of your domains with one not normally given by your deity.
#14 BadCatMan Mar 29, 2008 20:28:15	In my very cool A Handbook For Weapon Masters And Weapon Specialists, there is a list of the official deities and their favoured weapons. Except Vulkoor, who I didn't realise was statted out separately. Where can I find these details on Vulkoor? There were only two deities to offer the spiked chain that I found, and none of them offered the War domain. And the War domain only grants martial proficiency and focus anyway. Spiked Chain: * Kossuth: (FRCS, F&P) NN * Zoser: (SS) CN
#15 operation_shoestring Mar 29, 2008 22:42:28	I think Pun-Pun, God of Optimization, has favored weapon spiked chain, and War, Magic, Travel, and Rock'n'Roll domains. Might want to check him out. Rock'n'Roll's Domain granted power is very good (Save Vs DM wrath 1/day), but the devotion is even better (Rules argument 1/day, spend turning for more uses.)
#16 x-codes Mar 30, 2008 1:11:10	Hate to burst everyone's bubble, but you can't pray to a made-up god and receive divine power. You can pray to an ideal, however, and get proficiency with a one-handed martial weapon dependent on your alignment (I think they're Longsword (good), Warhammer (law), Battleaxe (chaos), and Light Flail (evil)).
#17 aftercrescent Mar 30, 2008 2:08:51	Care to quote the rules on that X-Codes? I'm familiar with those references via spiritual weapon and such, but I have never seen that rule anywhere. I'm curious now ;)
#18 Omen_of_Peace Mar 30, 2008 3:51:17	Vulkoor is presented in a sidebar in Secrets of Xen'drik. He's an aspect of the Mockery, with a different favored weapon but the same domains IIRC. In Eberron, Drows are proficient from the start with the Scorpion Chain.
#19 x-codes Mar 30, 2008 6:19:47	Care to quote the rules on that X-Codes? I'm familiar with those references via spiritual weapon and such, but I have never seen that rule anywhere. I'm curious now ;) I'll bet I read it in Magic of Incarnum. Yeah. It keeps sticking in my head that it's for Clerics. Either way, the above arguments still stand. You can't get Exotic Weapon Proficiency from the War domain, just Martial.
#20 eldritch_lord Mar 30, 2008 11:33:19	I'll bet I read it in Magic of Incarnum. Yeah. It keeps sticking in my head that it's for Clerics. Right. That weapon selection applies to spiritual weapon and incarnate weapon, but nothing else. Either way, the above arguments still stand. You can't get Exotic Weapon Proficiency from the War domain, just Martial. Weapon Focus, however, should work either way.
#21 x-codes Mar 30, 2008 18:28:43	Weapon Focus, however, should work either way. Pssh. Who cares?
#22 eldritch_lord Mar 30, 2008 19:03:05	Pssh. Who cares? Obviously the OP, if he's going to these lengths to find a War domain deity with favored weapon: spiked chain.
#23 x-codes Mar 31, 2008 6:09:17	Obviously the OP, if he's going to these lengths to find a War domain deity with favored weapon: spiked chain. Probably because he thought he could get proficiency. Since he can't, who cares about Weapon Focus? Another +1 bonus to attack with a weapon that will be making mostly Touch attacks (or hitting Prone people) is simply not useful at all.
#24 eldritch_lord Mar 31, 2008 17:27:17	Probably because he thought he could get proficiency. Since he can't, who cares about Weapon Focus? Another +1 bonus to attack with a weapon that will be making mostly Touch attacks (or hitting Prone people) is simply not useful at all. Possibly; then again, a cleric dip is always nice for the domain powers, so if you're going for a bit of healing and the Luck reroll, an extra +1 doesn't hurt.
#25 moskatyak Apr 01, 2008 17:59:18	I posted this a couple days ago looking for comments and some fine-tuning help. ______ Hi All !! I'm new to the boards and 3.5 (haven't played D&D since early 2.0) It seems your best bet is a party full of Druids; but, Fighters are fun! And, from what I've seen researching, you apparently want a Chain-gunner or a Frenzied Berserker (which I haven't much looked at because the chain appealed to me before I even looked at the boards). Also, it seems the only character worthy of play straight out of the book is Druid20, everything else has to be cross-class bastardized and/or Prc Optimized to be worth a dam . So, with that in mind and the help of some very useful handbooks and useful links (Kudos to all for your Valiant efforts!!!) and hours of agonizing analizing (from which I, apparently, somehow, derive some sort of pleasure) I've come up with this: Way of the Chain Human: Str16 Dex15 Con16 Int14 Wis12 Chr9 BooksPH,PH2,Complete: Adventurer,Arcane,Divine,Warrior; Races of: Wild, Stone,Destiny; Psionics: Complete,Expanded The campaign is supposed to go on up into Epic to the extent that it affects your advice. Prc's will slowly become available as the campaign progresses (who knows what or when, lost knowledge to be recovered) Mnk2/Clr1/Rngr2/Ftr12/Knight3 BaB +18 Fort +19 Dex +13 Will +12 (+Chr Resistance at 20th) 1 Rng1 EWP:Chain, Deft Opportunist, Tracking, Wild Empathy, Enemy(Unded) 2 Mnk1 Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist 3 Mnk2 Combat Reflexes, Evasion (in lt.armor), Able Learner 4 Clr1 Weapon Focus, Luck Re-Roll, 3 Spells (Cure Lt.), Use Cleric Items 5 Ftr1 Combat Expertise 6 Rng2 2WF, Imp. Trip 7 Ftr2 Double Hit 8 Knt1 Power Attack 9 Ftr3 ( ) 10 " 4 ( ) 11 " 5 12 " 6 ( ), ( ) 13 " 7 14 " 8 Robilar's Gambit 15 " 9 ( ) 16 " 10 ( ) 17 " 11 18 " 12 ( ), ( ) 19 Knt2 20 Knt3 Resistance (+Chr to Saves) This ordering seemed best to me: Start w/ Ranger because it's got the most skill points. Monk 2 asap for Combat Reflexes. Able Learner has to come in here at 3rd or lose utility from it: questionable whether it's worth the loss of a chain-feat for improved skill selection;but, it's mostly so I can max out Tumble and Diplomacy. Good Flavor. Yummy! Cleric 1: Way of the Chain (non-Deity Specific Way) Domains:Luck,War Worth it? Especially since I probably won't get the Specialization Feat Set. The Shock Trooper / Leap Attack Set is obviously much much better. (I wanted to start w/ Cleric but 2 skill pts. and I wasn't going to get chain prof. for free as I'd first hoped) but; Luck, Cure Lt.s for Lay on Hands Flavor, Wands of Cure Crit., Wands of Buffing, Special made Heal Item(50 charges)(with Status and Heal, I suppose you could make a wondrous Item that auto-healed you if you dropped below 25%HP, usable by anyone). Trip Next: Everybody raved about Trip, so I brought it on-line next at 6th. It could be usable at 4th by delaying Cleric and moving Combat Expertise to first; but Deft Opportunist seemed to provide better early utility than CE and Healing items are probably better than trip, since I hope to use tumble to make reach work more. The whole 2WF/Monk Unarmed Strike/Power Attack/ debate. What's the official WotC ruling? Personally, somewhere in the DMG, PH, or WotC 3.5 FAQ (I know it was just before I got on these boards), I read something to the effect: that in case of rules conflict, class features trump everything else, they are exceptions to the standard rules. The Monk description explicitly states: " ... no such thing as an off-hand attack for a Monk striking unarmed ... apply full Strength Bonus on damage rolls for all unarmed strikes." Also, you can wield a Martial Weapon in the off hand (at extra penalty) and it gets full Str Bonus (Right?). Otherwise the Ranger levels and Double Hit are use-less and will free up 2 Ftr Feats for other Chain Synergy. What else is there that I might replace ranger with or use for further cross pollenation. Double Hit: Should I have gotten this at 6th? I'm assuming it's a Ftr Feat (I don't have the books) and not more important than Imp. Trip. Knight1/Power Attack: When would be most optimal to take this? I got the impression that PA isn't really useful until the higher levels, and there's no point in slowing up other feats except to front-load the save bonus. Knt2 is even less of a save bonus, Knt3 doesn't do my particular character any good until I can get the Charisma up (the die roll option I was given seemed highly probable to produce a better result than the stat buy.) Knt3 also causes XP conflict w/ Clr1, so in actual play Clr2 will have to come first (pays for itself in 4.5-ish levels by not taking an XP penalty) and also get an extra +1 to Fort and Will Totals. Robilar's Gambit: 14th is the soonest I can get this with the Mnk&Clr Dips. I don't know if re-training will be allowed (nor do I know how it's supposed to work); but if so, I could get Karmic Strike at 9th (and Dodge) by delaying Knight1 or even earlier if I lose Ranger or it's more important than trip? Next (?) AoO Qualifiers: DefensiveSweep,DefensiveThrow Will I need these this early in the game? Or, will Reach,Trip,and Karmic/Gambit provide me more opportunities than I'm likely to be able to take advantage of? At least until Epic w/ Unlimited AoO: and do I pre-load them at 18 or tack them on at 23 & 25. How do you avoid the Epic Infinite AoO Loop from the Robilar Twins? Defensive Set: (not sure I've found all the pre-reqs.) Dodge,Mobility,SideStep,ElusiveTarget,Ho ldtheLine Do I need to set up these defenses at 9-12 or will my item healing allow me to take Shock Trooper first? ShockTrooper Set: (pre-reqs.?) (LeapAttack,ShockTrooper,KnockBack,Battl eJump,RampagingBullRush, Else? Should I leave these out and concentrate on AoO and Pacification for Epic? Monkey Hands: Pretty much universilly poo- poo'd. But: A=(PI)r^2 Circle Radius 10 20 40 80 " Diameter 20 40 80 160 Circle Area 314 1256 5026 20106 Area Increase x4 x4 x4 I can understand that 4 times the area of pacification isn't practical with limited #'s of AoO and the need for superior chain synergy. But then, tumbling ought to be able to keep you beyond a 5' step & full attack (WotC D&D3.5 FAQ/Sage's Advice Re-iteration: said that only paying double move cost for the squares that you actually tumble through was a perfectly acceptable interpretation of the skill; not exactly RAW, but officially acceptable), if your willing to for-go you own full attack. What's the max. distance on a leap attack (reasonable?/optimized?) to stay out of range of? Imp. Disarm- worth it (?), espcially w/ Stunning Fist to stop attack? Effective +12 Disarm if you follow-up a trip w/ DeftOpp. (+8/-4,prone). What % of encounters are you likely to come across that you might wish you had this (just those rare times you end up fighting people you'd rather not just slay right out Is there any sort of Acrobatic Leap Attack that doesn't provoke AoO, even in Epic? How about some Epic synergy w/ spring attack and side-step step so that you can also Acrobatically Leap back off your target more than 5' (whaterver distance you can jump from a standstill) after a leap attack or sidestep? Any really sick Epic Synergy? (I know this isn't the Epic Board, but it may be relevant to the pre-Epic build.) Infinite Deflect Arrow worth having? or just Cool Factor? Ground Fighting/Prone Attack? - In the event of a failed trip attempt and successful counter-trip, Is it tactically superior to drop the chain and pick it back up, or take the fall, assuming no spare? Can I acrobatic up quickly? instantly? Skill?/Skill Trick?/Feat? Is Kip-up an acrobat class feature? Are skill-tricks even in the source-books I listed? (to be later released into play) Or, are they obsolete data. Any Feats or other ways of warding yourself from provoking AoO's from an optimized opportunist? Trip and Disarm both require Touch Attacks. Does a Critical Hit have any affect? So..... Will he be able to hang w/ the Big Boys? Or, should I just go Druid20? -----Moskatyak
#26 moskatyak Apr 01, 2008 18:30:52	Sorry about the re-post. Hadn't realized that I'd gotten the idea here. -Moskatyak
#27 risner Apr 01, 2008 22:14:14	Do you have to worship a deity? Be one of the "devoted to a cause" clerics and pick your two domains. I would assume that since you have no deity you could probably choose your own favored weapon. No, with no deity, you pick your weapon based on a chart of alignment to weapon translations.
#28 x-codes Apr 01, 2008 22:26:25	No, with no deity, you pick your weapon based on a chart of alignment to weapon translations. Where is the chart?
#29 eldritch_lord Apr 01, 2008 22:29:45	No, with no deity, you pick your weapon based on a chart of alignment to weapon translations. That's only for spiritual weapon; I don't believe there are any hard-and-fast rules in the general case. I think this was hashed out a while ago with supporting quotes and all, but I can't find the thread; I'll link it if and when I do.
#30 risner Apr 03, 2008 20:25:15	That's only for spiritual weapon; I don't believe there are any hard-and-fast rules in the general case. I think this was hashed out a while ago with supporting quotes and all, but I can't find the thread; I'll link it if and when I do. Actually, I use the chart in Complete Divine p188.
#31 eldritch_lord Apr 03, 2008 20:42:56	Actually, I use the chart in Complete Divine p188. Really? I don't recall anything like that; must have missed it... *runs and checks* Ah, the Weapon of the Deity chart. Well, it looks like that's the same list as spiritual weapon except for the Neutral entry, and that still doesn't apply specifically to the War domain issue, so...I'd say it's still unresolved. That's a good idea, though.