Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kyprioth Sep 08, 2009 18:24:21	I'm not entirely sure what section to put this in, but I know you guys better than the people in the other forums, so I will just put this here. Basically, the concept is, to use Dnd magical items, and real worlds science, to createdsome seriously crazy things. We have already dropped the moon. (dont have a link.) and all kinds of other insane things as well, so this will be fun to see all of them in one place. Old tricks can be reposted here. In fact, I beg of you to post them here. I am new to the forums, and so didn't get to see much of the older things. (I do know the greats, like Lord of Procrastionation's work, and Khan the destroyer's Pun-pun. *Shudders*) Here are two to start off the thread. Nuclear Handbag. (AKA Atomic Handbag.) This requires a bit of physics knowledge, a bag of holding, and a lot of Highly Enriched Uranium. If you have acess to a level 9 Wizard, just a sliver will do. Major create some U-235. Highly enriched (or weapon's grade.) Uranium has a higher concentration of U-235, which is the explodey kind. U-235 atoms occasionaly fission by themselves, creating high energy smaller atoms, Gamma Rays, and two fast moving Neurons. If these neurons hit other U-235 atoms, they will force fission, creating an Exponential cycle and a huge explosion. More often than not, though, these atoms just dodge all the other atoms and go on their merry way. To ensure an explosion, you need what is called critical mass,  Where there is enough U-235 atoms that a chain reaction will occur. The most basic nuclear weapon is little more than two pieces of subcritical uranium, pushed together to make a critical mass. But a bag of holding is an enclosed, extradimensional space, meaning it's walls can be approximated as having (this is a huge assumption.) Infinite Hardness. When one of the high speed neurons encounters something like this, it will bounce back, meaning no neurons are wasted. (We do the same thing in real life using neuron reflectors, though they are less effective than this.) Given enough time, ANY amount of U-235 becomes a critical mass. But since the inside of the bag is enclosed, none of the nonfissioned uranium can escape. This is a big problem with normal fission bombs, as the explosion happens so quickly, it can push away some uranium, taking it to below critical levels. With Little boy, less than 1.5% of the uranium underwent fission, the handbag is around 100 times more efficient fission wise than early nukes. If we use the same amount of uranium as little boy, we could generate over 1 megaton of power! ((Note that I am simplifying it a bit, as only part of the mass is converted into uranium, with little boy it was under 1%, the handbag may be more effective, but I am not sure.)) But you don't have to worry about horrible death, because all of the gamma rays are bouncing around in the bag. If you open the bag and point it somewhere, most likely everything infont of you will be incinerated. I'm not sure if you would still experience the other effects, but you know, who cares? You are carrying around instant death.   Bye-bye, Universe. This one kind of requires you to trick your DM. (Which I do not condone, but for the sake of the trick, I guess this is all right.) This also is a lot more complicated and requires a huge leap of logic. Use shrink item repeadetly on several different boulders, turning them into pebbles. Then, start throwing them at thing and turning them back into boulders. Do this until the DM wants you to stop, or tries to come up with a reason to stop you. Have him make it to where "Energy needs to be conserved, so the increase in mass slows down the boulder." Then, make another pebble, and throw it straight up, at the apex, dismiss the spell. The potential energy increases by a massive amount, while the kinetic energy remains Zero. Now the energy needs to be conserved. Since shrink item is a thaumauturgy spell, it cannot teleport the boulder to a lower hieght. (to decrease the potential energy.) This means the only way to equalize is to have negative kinetic energy. This is normally impossible, as kinetic energy = 1/2 m v^2, and is always positive. For something to have negative kinetic energy, you must have an imaginary velocity. Bam, you have just created exotic matter. Watch as the universe uncreates itself. Alternatively, your DM punches you in the face. You totally deserved that. Continue with your own. (Note that these were not thought of by me alone, a few guys from another site made them with me, so...yeah...just thought I should mention it.)
#2 phaedrusxy Sep 09, 2009 11:12:27	BoH walls definitely do not have infinite hardness, because in the description it says that sharp objects that are placed inside it may rupture the walls and ruin the bag (and send its contents to the Astral Plane). Now... you can do what you're describing with a Forcecage, however, as walls of force do have infinite hardness, and a Forcecage is presumably an airtight container (unless you use the "barred cage" version). Things like this have been proposed before, though.     For the second one... nothing in the D&D rules state that energy must be conserved. In fact, there are several blatant violations of that principle explicit in D&D. You're not dealing with a world ruled by contemporary physics. You're dealing with a world where alchemy is real, and magic exists. So trying to use modern laws of physics to analyze it is just silly.
#3 kyprioth Sep 09, 2009 15:02:49	Hmm, I wouldn't consider an atom sharp, but I get your point. There are other objects which do have infinite hardness sin the game though, the BoH was just the funnest. As for the second one, I know the game doesn't follow real rules, which is why I said you have to make your DM rule that. (As in, Trick him.) Analyzing the Dnd world, and using science in it may be silly, but fun? I think so. I hope someone else will contribute.
#4 yawar Sep 10, 2009 15:34:07	Now... you can do what you're describing with a Forcecage, however, as walls of force do have infinite hardness, and a Forcecage is presumably an airtight container (unless you use the "barred cage" version). Things like this have been proposed before, though. As a materr of fact, it wouldn't either, since its infinite hardness doesn't translate to an infinite tenacity. A petty, unapocalyptic, DC 32 strenght check would do the job. A widen Resilent Sphere spell would net more damge due to its spherical nature.
#5 felgoroth Sep 10, 2009 15:47:32	An animated bag of devouring that can get enlarge spells cast on it would be funny.
#6 phaedrusxy Sep 10, 2009 15:53:16	As a materr of fact, it wouldn't either, since its infinite hardness doesn't translate to an infinite tenacity. A petty, unapocalyptic, DC 32 strenght check would do the job. Explain please. I don't remember seeing anything stating that you can get out of a Forcecage with a strength check. You can get out with a DC 120 Escape Artist check, if you use epic rules.
#7 balmas Sep 10, 2009 18:44:01	The Commoner Railgun: What you do is you get a whole bunch of commoners lined up and aimed at your target, say a castle. Each commoner takes his action one after another. Give a rock to the commoner at the back end of the line. As his action, Commoner 1 passes to Commoner 2, Commoner 2 passes to Commoner 3, and so on. The more commoners you have, the faster the rock will be traveling at the end of the line. The last commoner just lets go of the rock, and boom. Target destroyed. Assuming 1000 commoners all cooperating in this method, the rock will travel a distance of 5000 feet in six seconds, or just under 600 miles an hour. The Immovable Rod Cannon: This one, you have to know in which direction your planet is rotating to use. Anyway, you stand either east or west of your target, depending on your planet's rotation, and then set an immovable rod to stay stationary relative to the center of the planet. The speed of the planet's rotation will then crash your target into the immovable rod, hopefully destroying it.
#8 jseah Sep 10, 2009 23:17:30	The Immovable Rod Cannon: This one, you have to know in which direction your planet is rotating to use. Anyway, you stand either east or west of your target, depending on your planet's rotation, and then set an immovable rod to stay stationary relative to the center of the planet. The speed of the planet's rotation will then crash your target into the immovable rod, hopefully destroying it. Nice catch that.  I hadn't thought of that one.    You can coat the Immovable Rod with Permanent walls of force.  Then set it "stuck" relative to the sun.  One year later, the planet swings round right into collision course with an indestructible, immovable object.  The object punches a hole through the earth. (since the yeild-stress of rock is orders of magnitude less than the KE of the earth) In the process, the earth loses some kinetic energy as heat and the orbit drops a bit.    Do it on the moon and it might actually lose enough energy to destabilize it's orbit...
#9 frostwolf Sep 11, 2009 11:05:17	An animated bag of devouring that can get enlarge spells cast on it would be funny. That is a brilliant Idea! May I use it please? ^_^   Shape it like a doll and have it go lay where the baddies will find it. if they put it in their pack, it can then start to feed on their stuff!
#10 aleristhes33ker Sep 11, 2009 11:40:21	How about a giant castle called "Internet" with some Professor running around called "Wikipedia" and a high tower with an ugly woman that uses a spyglass to search for him called "Google"?
#11 zaxter Sep 11, 2009 12:58:27	The Immovable Rod Cannon: This one, you have to know in which direction your planet is rotating to use. Anyway, you stand either east or west of your target, depending on your planet's rotation, and then set an immovable rod to stay stationary relative to the center of the planet. The speed of the planet's rotation will then crash your target into the immovable rod, hopefully destroying it. While your planet is spinning around the sun, your sun is spinning around your galaxy, which in turn is hurtling through the universe. If you attempted to use this logic, your immovable rod would probably take off like a rocket and disappear forever within a second.
#12 balmas Sep 11, 2009 13:08:40	You can coat the Immovable Rod with Permanent walls of force.  Then set it "stuck" relative to the sun.  One year later, the planet swings round right into collision course with an indestructible, immovable object.  The object punches a hole through the earth. (since the yeild-stress of rock is orders of magnitude less than the KE of the earth) In the process, the earth loses some kinetic energy as heat and the orbit drops a bit.    Do it on the moon and it might actually lose enough energy to destabilize it's orbit... You're evil. I hadn't thought of that. But don't planets' orbits shift slightly every year?   While your planet is spinning around the sun, your sun is spinning net's rotation will then crash your target into the immovable rod, around your galaxy, which in turn is hurtling through the universe. If you attempted to use this logic, your immovable rod would probably take off like a rocket and disappear forever within a second. And that's why you set the immovable rod to be stationary relative to the center of the earth. Under your logic, Immovable rods would never be usable because they'd always move. If you set a rod stationary relative to the earth, it will stay in the same place and distance from the center of the earth while the earth, sun, galaxy etc move.
#13 pyro_azer Sep 11, 2009 14:31:50	Immovable rods can be moved with a strength check
#14 balmas Sep 11, 2009 16:44:02	It's still moving at a couple hundred miles an hour.
#15 jseah Sep 12, 2009 1:26:35	You're evil. I hadn't thought of that. But don't planets' orbits shift slightly every year? The planet's orbit still conserves angular momentum and kinetic energy.  Wall of force and immovable rods break that conservation.  The drag from the ground smacking into the wall?  Oops, it vanished.  The orbit drops far more this way. And that's why you set the immovable rod to be stationary relative to the center of the earth. Under your logic, Immovable rods would never be usable because they'd always move. If you set a rod stationary relative to the earth, it will stay in the same place and distance from the center of the earth while the earth, sun, galaxy etc move. That's one of the few problems D&D has.  What is a location?  Does the deck of a boat count as a location?  A flying castle?  The moon going round the earth? If I'm standing on Mars and I cast Wall of Force in the path of the Earth (let's say I have the CL to do that) does it stay immobile relative to Mars or Earth?  Or the Sun?
#16 kyprioth Sep 12, 2009 21:56:26	Thanks for posting everybody, lets keep these creations coming. I saw this somewhere else on the baords, but I thought I would put it here. On the commoner rail gun, I don't think it works. The 1000 commoners don't all share a turn, they get turns seperately. So the rock would move from one hand to another each six seconds, not blaze trough the commoners at 600mils an hour. Speaking of commoners.... The Commoner Bomb (Does not work, see below to find out why.) All you need to do this trick is a good bit of money, and a lot of time. Use all of your money to hire a bunch of commoners, and find a place you want to destroy, preferrably some big evil castle or something, maybe just the neighborhood kingdom. Anywhoo, find a way to not be attacked while you do this. Order a commoner to the basement. Order the next one to come down into the basement, and tell him to grab onto Commoner 1. tell Commoner 1 to allow him, thus automatically making Commoner 2 suceed his grapple check. Now the commoners are occupying the same square. Repeat until you have no more commoners to use. I assume you have a rather large amount of commoners, if you used all your money at level 20, you could probably have a thousand or so. These thousand commoners are all occupying the same square in the basement of the building you want destroyed. Now, tell all of the commoners to let go. God knows what happens next.
#17 phaedrusxy Sep 13, 2009 13:52:13	Thanks for posting everybody, lets keep these creations coming. I saw this somewhere else on the baords, but I thought I would put it here. On the commoner rail gun, I don't think it works. The 1000 commoners don't all share a turn, they get turns seperately. So the rock would move from one hand to another each six seconds, not blaze trough the commoners at 600mils an hour. That's why they all use readied actions. Each one readies an action to pass the rock immediately after the guy next to him passes it. So they all go at the same time.
#18 balmas Sep 14, 2009 13:46:21	If I'm standing on Mars and I cast Wall of Force in the path of the Earth (let's say I have the CL to do that) does it stay immobile relative to Mars or Earth?  Or the Sun? If you're at a high enough level to cast a wall of force affecting Earth from Mars, it's really a moot point. Just whip out one of those epic spells.
#19 hezor Sep 14, 2009 13:49:25	community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... - Really great thread if you look for that kindof trickery. A lot of reading, but it's really worth it.
#20 heax Sep 15, 2009 13:19:21	The Commoner Bomb All you need to do this trick is a good bit of money, and a lot of time. Use all of your money to hire a bunch of commoners, and find a place you want to destroy, preferrably some big evil castle or something, maybe just the neighborhood kingdom. Anywhoo, find a way to not be attacked while you do this. Order a commoner to the basement. Order the next one to come down into the basement, and tell him to grab onto Commoner 1. tell Commoner 1 to allow him, thus automatically making Commoner 2 suceed his grapple check. Now the commoners are occupying the same square. Repeat until you have no more commoners to use. I assume you have a rather large amount of commoners, if you used all your money at level 20, you could probably have a thousand or so. These thousand commoners are all occupying the same square in the basement of the building you want destroyed. Now, tell all of the commoners to let go. God knows what happens next. I'm afraid that won't work. If those commoners are medium creatures, only five of them can be grappling at once. If they were small, then it'd be nine, according to the rules of grappling. Sorry, but only so many creatures can be in the same space together.
#21 kyprioth Sep 15, 2009 15:04:21	ah man, sorry for posting a not working trick. I'll keep it there, but I will say that it is wrong. That thread is what inspired this one actually, maybe we have some fresh ideas now?
#22 jseah Sep 15, 2009 22:00:11	If you're at a high enough level to cast a wall of force affecting Earth from Mars, it's really a moot point. Just whip out one of those epic spells. No no, that's not the point.  I'm this epic level (over 9k) caster who owns the entire multiverse.  So, I'm bored and decided to run a... little... experiment.  =) After all, figuring out how the universe works can't possibly hurt.  Can it?