DnD, the Musical... Druid - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

DnD, the Musical... Druid

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Kerrus
Jan 13, 2009 12:24:33 I need help. My DnD group has insisted that for the alt campaign we'll be running once a month that everyone in the party be part of a travelling troupe of medieval rockstars.

Yes, it's All Bard Party time again. Except I rather don't fancy playing a bard all that much- I'd much rather play a druid. So I've been looking into things, and it occurs to me that if I take a rank in Bard, and then go into druid, I can take Melodic Casting, and use perform for my concentration checks. Thus, while I wouldn't really be a bard beyond 1st level, I'd be able to do funky perform/casting combos. And turn into a giant beast in the middle of it and maul the audience.

The rolls I'm working with- as of level one- are as followes: 12, 12, 12, 14, 15, 17 in order of value.

What I need to know is if it's worth that level in bard- then how my druid progression should go. I'm looking for, primarily, a casting oriented druid, though I do like wildshape too. I'd rather not sacrifice wildshape for casting, but if the casting is really good, then I probably would be willing.

Books: Our GM's not a fan of all sorts of esoteric books, though he's warming up to it. These once a month campaign supersessions are supposed to be where we cut back and make significantly more powerful characters.

Anyways, I'm planning on starting with human because it's a human setting, and creepy bat thing doesn't make a very good singer. (Yes, I'm going to be the singer, no I don't know how I'm going to pull that off in wildshape)

Other then that, feel free to suggest anything you want.
#2
Krusk
Jan 13, 2009 12:32:09
Anyways, I'm planning on starting with human because it's a human setting, and creepy bat thing doesn't make a very good singer. (Yes, I'm going to be the singer, no I don't know how I'm going to pull that off in wildshape)

Metal band, lots of gutteral growls and yells. Who better for this than a bear?

This might be a good opportunity to try to get into the folkyn lyrist prestige class. Really good class, that is stupidly hard to get into. You need t be a combo of bard, druid, and have sneak attack. (IIRC)

But it progresses both druid stuff and bard stuff.
#3
Kerrus
Jan 13, 2009 12:39:47 Yeah, I was looking at that class earlier. Could be interesting.

I also seem to recall a class that provides sneak attack (other then rogue) and also has spellcasting progression.

EDIT: What the hell? The Lyrist doesn't require sneak attack. The Lyrist requires evasion. *takes a two level dip in monk* yay.
#4
glendwyr
Jan 13, 2009 14:11:12 If you have access to Dragon Magazine prestige classes, I think Green Whisperer might be right up your alley as far as mixing bard and druid. Five levels long and, if I recall correctly, full progression on bardic casting, bardic music, bardic knowledge, and druid casting. And you can enter as early as level 6. If you went Bard 1 / Druid 5 / Green Whisperer 4 / Arcane Heirophant 10, you'd end up with wildshape as a level 15 druid, casting as a level 15 bard / level 19 druid, and some relatively trivial bardic music/bardic knowledge abilities. There's some debate about whether Arcane Heirophant grants wildshape if you don't already have it; if your DM rules it does, you can swap Druid 5 / Green Whisperer 4 for Druid 4 / Green Whisperer 5 and pick up an extra level of bardic music/bardic knowledge/bardic casting progression. Books required: Some issue of Dragon Magazine, Races of the Wild.

If you're more interested in going Fochlucan Lyrist, I'd suggest using Combat Medic (Heroes of Battle) to pick up evasion instead of using monk. Setting aside alignment problems, you don't lose casting levels that way. So you could go, say, Bard 1 / Druid 5 / Combat Medic 4 / Fochlucan Lyrist 10 to nab casting as a level 12 bard / level 18 druid, plus slightly more useful bardic knowledge/bardic music. But you wouldn't have anything meaningful as far as wildshape goes.
#5
Kerrus
Jan 13, 2009 15:53:53 Bard 1 / Druid 5 / Green Whisperer 4 / Arcane Heirophant 10 sounds moreorless what I'm looking for. Heiropant granting wildshape or not, I'm a fan of Wildshape (Huge) among other things.

Questions then:

1. Which Dragon issue is Green Whisperer in.
2. Assuming Human, the feat Melodic Casting, what would the best progression of feat/skill buy be in order to meet the requirements for the ensuing classes?
3. Assuming the wildshape erratta- oh gods, the wildshape erratta- what would be the best ability layout?

ie:

Str: 12
Dex: 12
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 17
Cha: 15

this?

14's going into Int as default due to the potential that the classes are skill hungry- I don't recall what book the Arcane Heirophant is in, so I don't have the details on the requirements. If a 12 in Int will do, then the 14 will go into Con, given the Wildshape Errata, in order to give me access to better forms faster.
#6
glendwyr
Jan 13, 2009 17:28:45
1. Which Dragon issue is Green Whisperer in.

According to the good people at Crystalkeep, it's #311. They're usually pretty reliable. Arcane Heirophant is in Races of the Wild.

2. Assuming Human, the feat Melodic Casting, what would the best progression of feat/skill buy be in order to meet the requirements for the ensuing classes?

Very conveniently, neither prestige class has any feat requirements. The skill requirements are 8 ranks each in knowledge (arcana), knowledge (nature), and perform, as well as 5 ranks in survival. Those are all very easy to do with bard 1 / druid 5 (and I'd definitely start that way, in that order, for the extra skill points, and to make sure you can pick up natural spell at level 6). If you're concerned about burning skill ranks cross-class on perform and knowledge (arcana), you could just take Able Learner (from Races of Destiny) as your human bonus feat, in which case, a 12 Int would more than suffice.

3. Assuming the wildshape erratta- oh gods, the wildshape erratta- what would be the best ability layout?

And that's where I should shut up, because hell if I know what the current wildshape rules are!
#7
Kerrus
Jan 13, 2009 20:29:57 According to the wildshape errata, your con doesn't change when anymore- so 12 con is 12 con is 12 con. Except when it isn't- ie: pulling funky **** off like whildshaping into something with a massive con boost, casting another con booster spell, then using shapechange to turn into something else. Even though your HP doesn't change when you wildshape, the game treats whatever the con you get is as the con score you use for effects and the like (its increase doesn't increase your HP) Shapechange, though, is a single step effect- it doesn't 'know' that you're wildshaped, and look at whatever your base HP is- it doesn't look at your HP at all. It looks at your current Con score. Which, if you're wildshaped into somethign with massive con, or've spelled your way to massive con, is massive.

So when you change again you get a significant boost to your HP. Given wildshape progression, that gives you fifteen hours of fighty- but you need to burn off excess damage before you turn back, because if you've got 80 points of damage, and only 50 HP in your base form, you'll die when the spell wears off. But given all the casting this progression will be capable of, I don't think that's going to be that bad.

And there's always the chance that the GM will use percentage scaling house rules (Ie: turn into a bear and take 10% damage, then that's 10% damage as a human, rather then 80% damage. The little things)

I know I need to read up on the specifics of the wildshape errata, and in all honesty I don't even know if we'd be using it- I'll ask the GM. If we aren't, well, the build becomes easier.

Anyways, thanks for the info. I'll get to building the class.

EDIT: I just realized that I forgot the most important thing when running optimization. Don't ask the GM if we're using the latest errata, because he'll take that as an opportunity to do exactly that. So unless otherwise informed, I'll operate as the PHB says wildshape works.

Thanks a lot for the help, it was exactly what I was looking for.
#8
emy
Jan 14, 2009 14:19:00
EDIT: I just realized that I forgot the most important thing when running optimization. Don't ask the GM if we're using the latest errata, because he'll take that as an opportunity to do exactly that. So unless otherwise informed, I'll operate as the PHB says wildshape works

Pfft. That's cheating, not optimization.
#9
awaken_D_M_golem
Jan 14, 2009 16:57:53 A good Bard usually has pretty bad STR.
That's where a persisted Enlarge comes into play, with a Bat Man style Leather Armor custom suit, to make him look more muscular.
And the "girls" he picks up, in that scene in the musical, are just Illusions.
Whimpy the Enlarged Bard can't normally pick up chicks ... either way. He's not the star.

:D
#10
Endarire
Jan 14, 2009 17:26:46 Ask your DM if the Divine Oracle2's Prescient Sense counts as Evasion for Fochluran Lyrist. Divine Oracle is from Complete Divine 35.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Kerrus Jan 13, 2009 12:24:33	I need help. My DnD group has insisted that for the alt campaign we'll be running once a month that everyone in the party be part of a travelling troupe of medieval rockstars. Yes, it's All Bard Party time again. Except I rather don't fancy playing a bard all that much- I'd much rather play a druid. So I've been looking into things, and it occurs to me that if I take a rank in Bard, and then go into druid, I can take Melodic Casting, and use perform for my concentration checks. Thus, while I wouldn't really be a bard beyond 1st level, I'd be able to do funky perform/casting combos. And turn into a giant beast in the middle of it and maul the audience. The rolls I'm working with- as of level one- are as followes: 12, 12, 12, 14, 15, 17 in order of value. What I need to know is if it's worth that level in bard- then how my druid progression should go. I'm looking for, primarily, a casting oriented druid, though I do like wildshape too. I'd rather not sacrifice wildshape for casting, but if the casting is really good, then I probably would be willing. Books: Our GM's not a fan of all sorts of esoteric books, though he's warming up to it. These once a month campaign supersessions are supposed to be where we cut back and make significantly more powerful characters. Anyways, I'm planning on starting with human because it's a human setting, and creepy bat thing doesn't make a very good singer. (Yes, I'm going to be the singer, no I don't know how I'm going to pull that off in wildshape) Other then that, feel free to suggest anything you want.
#2 Krusk Jan 13, 2009 12:32:09	Anyways, I'm planning on starting with human because it's a human setting, and creepy bat thing doesn't make a very good singer. (Yes, I'm going to be the singer, no I don't know how I'm going to pull that off in wildshape) Metal band, lots of gutteral growls and yells. Who better for this than a bear? This might be a good opportunity to try to get into the folkyn lyrist prestige class. Really good class, that is stupidly hard to get into. You need t be a combo of bard, druid, and have sneak attack. (IIRC) But it progresses both druid stuff and bard stuff.
#3 Kerrus Jan 13, 2009 12:39:47	Yeah, I was looking at that class earlier. Could be interesting. I also seem to recall a class that provides sneak attack (other then rogue) and also has spellcasting progression. EDIT: What the hell? The Lyrist doesn't require sneak attack. The Lyrist requires evasion. takes a two level dip in monk yay.
#4 glendwyr Jan 13, 2009 14:11:12	If you have access to Dragon Magazine prestige classes, I think Green Whisperer might be right up your alley as far as mixing bard and druid. Five levels long and, if I recall correctly, full progression on bardic casting, bardic music, bardic knowledge, and druid casting. And you can enter as early as level 6. If you went Bard 1 / Druid 5 / Green Whisperer 4 / Arcane Heirophant 10, you'd end up with wildshape as a level 15 druid, casting as a level 15 bard / level 19 druid, and some relatively trivial bardic music/bardic knowledge abilities. There's some debate about whether Arcane Heirophant grants wildshape if you don't already have it; if your DM rules it does, you can swap Druid 5 / Green Whisperer 4 for Druid 4 / Green Whisperer 5 and pick up an extra level of bardic music/bardic knowledge/bardic casting progression. Books required: Some issue of Dragon Magazine, Races of the Wild. If you're more interested in going Fochlucan Lyrist, I'd suggest using Combat Medic (Heroes of Battle) to pick up evasion instead of using monk. Setting aside alignment problems, you don't lose casting levels that way. So you could go, say, Bard 1 / Druid 5 / Combat Medic 4 / Fochlucan Lyrist 10 to nab casting as a level 12 bard / level 18 druid, plus slightly more useful bardic knowledge/bardic music. But you wouldn't have anything meaningful as far as wildshape goes.
#5 Kerrus Jan 13, 2009 15:53:53	Bard 1 / Druid 5 / Green Whisperer 4 / Arcane Heirophant 10 sounds moreorless what I'm looking for. Heiropant granting wildshape or not, I'm a fan of Wildshape (Huge) among other things. Questions then: 1. Which Dragon issue is Green Whisperer in. 2. Assuming Human, the feat Melodic Casting, what would the best progression of feat/skill buy be in order to meet the requirements for the ensuing classes? 3. Assuming the wildshape erratta- oh gods, the wildshape erratta- what would be the best ability layout? ie: Str: 12 Dex: 12 Con: 12 Int: 14 Wis: 17 Cha: 15 this? 14's going into Int as default due to the potential that the classes are skill hungry- I don't recall what book the Arcane Heirophant is in, so I don't have the details on the requirements. If a 12 in Int will do, then the 14 will go into Con, given the Wildshape Errata, in order to give me access to better forms faster.
#6 glendwyr Jan 13, 2009 17:28:45	1. Which Dragon issue is Green Whisperer in. According to the good people at Crystalkeep, it's #311. They're usually pretty reliable. Arcane Heirophant is in Races of the Wild. 2. Assuming Human, the feat Melodic Casting, what would the best progression of feat/skill buy be in order to meet the requirements for the ensuing classes? Very conveniently, neither prestige class has any feat requirements. The skill requirements are 8 ranks each in knowledge (arcana), knowledge (nature), and perform, as well as 5 ranks in survival. Those are all very easy to do with bard 1 / druid 5 (and I'd definitely start that way, in that order, for the extra skill points, and to make sure you can pick up natural spell at level 6). If you're concerned about burning skill ranks cross-class on perform and knowledge (arcana), you could just take Able Learner (from Races of Destiny) as your human bonus feat, in which case, a 12 Int would more than suffice. 3. Assuming the wildshape erratta- oh gods, the wildshape erratta- what would be the best ability layout? And that's where I should shut up, because hell if I know what the current wildshape rules are!
#7 Kerrus Jan 13, 2009 20:29:57	According to the wildshape errata, your con doesn't change when anymore- so 12 con is 12 con is 12 con. Except when it isn't- ie: pulling funky **** off like whildshaping into something with a massive con boost, casting another con booster spell, then using shapechange to turn into something else. Even though your HP doesn't change when you wildshape, the game treats whatever the con you get is as the con score you use for effects and the like (its increase doesn't increase your HP) Shapechange, though, is a single step effect- it doesn't 'know' that you're wildshaped, and look at whatever your base HP is- it doesn't look at your HP at all. It looks at your current Con score. Which, if you're wildshaped into somethign with massive con, or've spelled your way to massive con, is massive. So when you change again you get a significant boost to your HP. Given wildshape progression, that gives you fifteen hours of fighty- but you need to burn off excess damage before you turn back, because if you've got 80 points of damage, and only 50 HP in your base form, you'll die when the spell wears off. But given all the casting this progression will be capable of, I don't think that's going to be that bad. And there's always the chance that the GM will use percentage scaling house rules (Ie: turn into a bear and take 10% damage, then that's 10% damage as a human, rather then 80% damage. The little things) I know I need to read up on the specifics of the wildshape errata, and in all honesty I don't even know if we'd be using it- I'll ask the GM. If we aren't, well, the build becomes easier. Anyways, thanks for the info. I'll get to building the class. EDIT: I just realized that I forgot the most important thing when running optimization. Don't ask the GM if we're using the latest errata, because he'll take that as an opportunity to do exactly that. So unless otherwise informed, I'll operate as the PHB says wildshape works. Thanks a lot for the help, it was exactly what I was looking for.
#8 emy Jan 14, 2009 14:19:00	EDIT: I just realized that I forgot the most important thing when running optimization. Don't ask the GM if we're using the latest errata, because he'll take that as an opportunity to do exactly that. So unless otherwise informed, I'll operate as the PHB says wildshape works Pfft. That's cheating, not optimization.
#9 awaken_D_M_golem Jan 14, 2009 16:57:53	A good Bard usually has pretty bad STR. That's where a persisted Enlarge comes into play, with a Bat Man style Leather Armor custom suit, to make him look more muscular. And the "girls" he picks up, in that scene in the musical, are just Illusions. Whimpy the Enlarged Bard can't normally pick up chicks ... either way. He's not the star. :D
#10 Endarire Jan 14, 2009 17:26:46	Ask your DM if the Divine Oracle2's Prescient Sense counts as Evasion for Fochluran Lyrist. Divine Oracle is from Complete Divine 35.