I know it isn't the best idea ever but here goes. I am interested in formulating a warforged VoP fighter-type character revolving around Kensai. Why Kensai? Granting the morphing, sizing, and metalline abilites to his fists he can make any weapon in the game and not have it affect his VoP status.
I have been jumbling around a few concepts in my head but can't seem to get anything to stick to the paper. I've got access to just about every book available and am not concerned entirely with keeping him strictly fighter.
The two ideas I've been most focused on revolve around a Palandin/Pious Templar/Divine Oracle/Kensai save monkey type character or some form of a Warblade/Kensai for martial adept goodness. I'm torn though and don't know which one would be ultimately more effective.
The character I'm dreaming up would be built on a 32 point buy. The required feats are going to be Combat Expertise, Weapon Focus (x), Sacred Vow, and VoP. Much beyond that I really just can't seem to find a direction.
Any help?
Edit: As promised here is the build.
The VoP Juggernaut
Fighter 4/Warblade 1/Warforged Juggernaut 5/Kensai 5/Pious Templar 3/Divine Oracle 2
Classes probably taken in that order.
Feats:
1-Adamantine Body, Fighter 1-Power Attack
Fighter 2-Improved Bull Rush
3-Improved Unarmed Strike
Fighter 4-Combat Expertise
6-Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
9-Sacred Vow
12-Vow of Poverty
15-True Believer
18-Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion)
Base Saves: F-14, R-4, Wis-12 -- They aren't anything special but add in the improved stats from VoP and they aren't bad with the exception of reflex. This is taken care of by his Withstand ability from the Kensai (allows him to make a concentration check in place of a reflex save). On successful saves, he takes no ill effect (mettle and prescient sense).
BAB-15/10/5
He is also immune to critical hits, nonlethal damage, all mind-affecting spells and abilities, death and necromancy effects, and ability damage or ability drain.
He overcomes most DR types without much fore-thought as he can change his weapon type and the metal it is made from at will (as a standard action, perhaps two).
He can use his Weapon Aptitude from Warblade to change his proficiency so that he is able to use an exotic weapon of his choice for the day without penalty.
He can't be affected by healing school spells however his fast healing gained from VoP will still stick and he can be affected by the repair spells.
His AC isn't horrible and can be made marginally better by turning one of his fists into a shield (+2 shield, +5 enhancement from exalted strike).
Just to update the build a little I'd like to notice up a slight change in the character for a little more optimization. Dropping a level or two of Pious Templar will allow you to fit in barbarian. With the introduction of Complete Champion and the Lion Totem ACF for barbarians, it is an absolute must for this build.
Classes probably taken in that order.
Feats:
1-Adamantine Body, Fighter 1-Power Attack
Fighter 2-Improved Bull Rush
3-Improved Unarmed Strike
Fighter 4-Combat Expertise
6-Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
9-Sacred Vow
12-Vow of Poverty
15-True Believer
18-Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion)
Base Saves: F-14, R-4, Wis-12 -- They aren't anything special but add in the improved stats from VoP and they aren't bad with the exception of reflex. This is taken care of by his Withstand ability from the Kensai (allows him to make a concentration check in place of a reflex save). On successful saves, he takes no ill effect (mettle and prescient sense).
BAB-15/10/5
He is also immune to critical hits, nonlethal damage, all mind-affecting spells and abilities, death and necromancy effects, and ability damage or ability drain.
He overcomes most DR types without much fore-thought as he can change his weapon type and the metal it is made from at will (as a standard action, perhaps two).
He can use his Weapon Aptitude from Warblade to change his proficiency so that he is able to use an exotic weapon of his choice for the day without penalty.
He can't be affected by healing school spells however his fast healing gained from VoP will still stick and he can be affected by the repair spells.
His AC isn't horrible and can be made marginally better by turning one of his fists into a shield (+2 shield, +5 enhancement from exalted strike).
Just to update the build a little I'd like to notice up a slight change in the character for a little more optimization. Dropping a level or two of Pious Templar will allow you to fit in barbarian. With the introduction of Complete Champion and the Lion Totem ACF for barbarians, it is an absolute must for this build.
I can't remember much else about the class off the top of my head, but it seems like it'd be just the thing for you.
Edit: I see you posted again while I was responding. Morphing, eh? Interesting thought...
Fighter -> Warshaper -> Kensai
Take Imp. Unarmed Strike, Imp. Natural Attack and use the feat from ToB (?) that ups your damage progression.
Me.
I would do it something like this:
Fighter 1/warblade 5/kensai 8/+6 warblade
1) Fighter: EWP: Fullblade, Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, [some exalted feat], AC bonus +4
2) Warblade: [some exalted feat], battle clarity (Reflex saves), weapon aptitude, 1st level manoeuvres
3) Warblade: Combat Expertise, AC bonus +5, endure elements, endure elements, uncanny dodge
4) Warblade: [stat increase], [some exalted feat], exalted strike +1, battle ardour (criticals), 2nd level manoeuvres
5) Warblade: [bonus feat], sustenance
6) Warblade: Weapon Focus (fullblade), [some exalted feat], AC bonus +6, deflection +1, improved uncanny dodge, 3rd level manoeuvres
7) Kensai: signature weapon, resistance +1, ability score enhancement +2
8) Kensai: [stat increase], [some exalted feat], power surge, natural armour +1, mind shielding
9) Kensai: [feat], AC bonus +7, 3rd level manoeuvres
10) Kensai: [some exalted feat], exalted strike +2 (good), DR 5/magic, ki projection
11) Kensai: ability score enhancement +2/+4, withstand
12) Kensai: [stat increase], [some exalted feat], [feat], AC bonus +8, deflection +2, greater sustenance
13) Kensai: resistance +2, energy resistance 5, ki projection, 4th level manoeuvres
14) Kensai: [some exalted feat], exalted strike +3, freedom of movement, instill
15) Warblade: [feat], AC bonus +9, ability score enhancement +6/+4/+2, DR 5/evil, battle cunning (damage)
16) Warblade: [stat increase], [some exalted feat], natural armour +2, 5th level manoeuvres
17) Warblade: [bonus feat], exalted strike +4, resistance +3, regeneration
18) Warblade: [feat], [some exalted feat], AC bonus +10, deflection +3, true seeing, 6th level manoeuvres
19) Warblade: ability score enhancement +8/+6/+4/+2, DR 10/evil, battle skill (opposed checks)
20) Warblade: [stat increase], [some exalted feat], exalted strike +5, energy resistance 15, 7th level manoeuvres
Lol, rather exhaustive, but it should all be there. You'll have decent BAB with this, as well as 7th level manoeuvres, which isn't half bad. Focus on Stone Dragon and Iron Heart, they'll help. When imbuing your fists, abilities are your friend, as the enhancement from VoP is in there for sheer numbers. I'm not sure if you can shape a fullblade with those abilities, but it could work.
Hope that helped!
Edit: Whoops; I got this thread mixed up with another one I read at around the same time. That one was the "honorable fighter" character.
Warforged are nice in that it's debateable whether or not their "improvement" feats violate the VOP restrictions. Technically, a warforged with the Adamantine Body feat is running around buck naked. His naked body just happens to be made out of adamantine.
Other possibilities (just throwing out ideas):
HOLY ROBOT (Batman!)
Some sort of Paladin/Soulknife/Soulbow/Illumine Soul -> Kensai. It has the benefit of making you self-sufficient, and it would provide a ranged attack. You mention dipping Paladin (for Divine Grace?). Thematically, that fits nicely with Illumine Soul, and the first Warforged sub level for Paladin is great. (The second one depends on taste).
HOLY FRANKENFREAK
Some strange hodgepodge of Fighter/Paladin/dip Druid 1 (shapeshift variant to get predator form, if your DM says that lets you take 4 levels of Warshaper) -> Kensai. Again, watch your substitution levels for Fighter and Paladin to see if anything works better for you. Also, arguably, a Warforged would retain their body improvement feats while shifting. Again, check with your DM, it's controversial for a reason.
IF you have a lenient DM who rules that the Warforged feats let you do an end-run around VOP restrictions, then this could be a REALLY fun character to play.
Fighter 4/Monk2/Pious Templar 1/Warforged Juggernaut 2/Kensai 5/Occult Slayer 5
This gets him immunity to crits, subdual damage, and mind affecting spells. He'll have pretty decent saves (reflex would be the lowest but he can exchange his concetration check with the Withstand ability from the Kensai) and takes no ill effect on successful saves. He's also going to get extra damage against magic using creatures which he can double if he allows them to cast a spell.
I'm still missing a level and can't decide if I want the Mithril Body or the Adamantine Body feat. Suggestions?
Edit: Forgot to mention I'll probably take snap kick if I can find a place to fit it in.
Not sure about this, but doesnt VoP require you to not use any armor? As a warforgeds body type feats say that they count as wearing armor wouldnt that violate VoP? If im missing something I apologize, as I dont have the book out.
Actually, even by the RAW, a warforged body armour doesn't violate VoP.
Why?
Well, same reason why soulmelds don't violate VoP. The armour didn't cost the warforged anything and he can't sell it. So how does it violate VoP if it doesn't have a gp value?
I'm thinking Mithril Body will be better because one of the VoP ability bonus' could go to Dex for more overall AC. I don't think that Jaws of Death and Second Slam sound too bad either for some secondary attacks. Perhaps Mithril Fluidity to make my armor more effective?
Fighter 1/warblade 5/kensai 8/+6 warblade
1) Fighter: EWP: Fullblade, Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, [some exalted feat], AC bonus +4
[snip]
Quoting BoED page 48 about Vow of Poverty
"You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple
weapons"
Compare to Kensai from COmplete Warrior, page 50
"If the weapon is a manufactured one, it must be of at least masterwork quality."
So, you cant do fullblade, sorry. VoP allows only simple weapons. And
Kensai requires any manufactured weapon to be at least masterwork. So...
you cannot combine the classes at all if you take VoP at 1st level.
Has to be unarmed damage (or your bite attack, if you rearrange some feats)
Then go whichever way you want.
Swordsage has a load of maneuvers and stances which will compensate for your inability to carry ranged weapons.
Quoting BoED page 48 about Vow of Poverty
"You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple
weapons"
Compare to Kensai from COmplete Warrior, page 50
"If the weapon is a manufactured one, it must be of at least masterwork quality."
So, you cant do fullblade, sorry. VoP allows only simple weapons. And
Kensai requires any manufactured weapon to be at least masterwork. So...
you cannot combine the classes at all if you take VoP at 1st level.
Has to be unarmed damage (or your bite attack, if you rearrange some feats)
Did you read my OP?
He is using his Kensai ability to enchant his favored weapon, in this case his fists, with the sizing, morphing, and metalline abilities. Sizing allows the fists to be any size, morphing allows them to be any weapon of the same size (so in turn any weapon because of sizing), and metalline allows for them to be any kind of metal.
It's kind of the entire premise of the build...
Do grafts count?
Not positive but I'd have to point to no because they can still be sold.
The build won't get his VoP until around level 12 so perhaps a graft could work.
Actually, even by the RAW, a warforged body armour doesn't violate VoP.
Why?
Well, same reason why soulmelds don't violate VoP. The armour didn't cost the warforged anything and he can't sell it. So how does it violate VoP if it doesn't have a gp value?
I'm pritty sure the DMG lists a value for both Mithril and Adamantine per pound of item, so I'd think a warforged would be carrying a substantial amount of wealth on his back.
Hell, how about Cleric -> Sovreign Speaker with Wordly Focus. I'm not sure what the components are for all the cleric spells though ... that'd be your only trick. Quarterstaves are cheap.
I'm pritty sure the DMG lists a value for both Mithril and Adamantine per pound of item, so I'd think a warforged would be carrying a substantial amount of wealth on his back.
A warforged monks unarmed strikes would be considered masterwork weapons. Being made of metal, they would be valuable. Would this also prevent the warforged monk from taking VoP? Not quite... He can't sell the adamantine or mithril because it is what his body is composed of.
So you're set on Monk / Kensai? No way I could convince you to run a Warforged Cleric 20 with a quarterstaff? I mean, really ... spikes/brambles, GMW, Divine Power, Righteous Might.
Hell, how about Cleric -> Sovreign Speaker with Wordly Focus. I'm not sure what the components are for all the cleric spells though ... that'd be your only trick. Quarterstaves are cheap.
I thought about it and it would be good, no doubt. The compenents can be tricky but aren't build stopping. The reason I can't be convinced of the cleric though is that I am trying to design the normally frowned upon VoP fighter style character and have him be half-way effective.
Did you read my OP?
He is using his Kensai ability to enchant his favored weapon, in this case his fists, with the sizing, morphing, and metalline abilities. Sizing allows the fists to be any size, morphing allows them to be any weapon of the same size (so in turn any weapon because of sizing), and metalline allows for them to be any kind of metal.
It's kind of the entire premise of the build...
Not positive but I'd have to point to no because they can still be sold.
The build won't get his VoP until around level 12 so perhaps a graft could work.
Yes, I read the entirety of all of the posts. You cannot carry anything besides simple weapons with VOP. All the weapon attachments in Races of Ebberon and the Eberron Campaign setting list a cost except for the artifact (and are martial weapons, not simple). So you cannot use them. Period.
Now what is your character doing from levels 1 to 8ish in combat (he is wasting his weapon focus feats on something he cannot do/use) It looks like hes carrying a club or quarterstaff for free to do battle, since he doesn't have IUS (or he is just using his natural slam attack). Now I will grant you you can just walk around with a simple club, but once you get to Kensai, you have to pick our signature weapon. At that time, you have to have weapon focus in something. You only have it in fullblade, thus is requires you to have a MW one, violating your vow. You dont get to pick morphing as a bonus equivalent until AFTER you are into the class. Your plan does not work as
listed.
The build still shows VoPoverty at level 1.
Fighter 1/warblade 5/kensai 8/+6 warblade
1) Fighter: EWP: Fullblade, Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, [some exalted feat], AC bonus +4
2) Warblade: [some exalted feat], battle clarity (Reflex saves), weapon aptitude, 1st level manoeuvres
3) Warblade: Combat Expertise, AC bonus +5, endure elements, endure elements, uncanny dodge
4) Warblade: [stat increase], [some exalted feat], exalted strike +1, battle ardour (criticals), 2nd level manoeuvres
5) Warblade: [bonus feat], sustenance
6) Warblade: Weapon Focus (fullblade), [some exalted feat], AC bonus +6, deflection +1, improved uncanny dodge, 3rd level manoeuvres
7) Kensai: signature weapon, resistance +1, ability score enhancement +2
At this point you lose all benefits of VoP (or you did not actually qualify for Kensai)
I'm pritty sure the DMG lists a value for both Mithril and Adamantine per pound of item, so I'd think a warforged would be carrying a substantial amount of wealth on his back.
It's been rules that a dead Adamantine-bodied Warforged has no more value than any other dead PC.
While it seems that the feat gives something "like" armor, it's not armor. It's a feat.
Yes, I read the entirety of all of the posts. You cannot carry anything besides simple weapons with VOP. All the weapon attachments in Races of Ebberon and the Eberron Campaign setting list a cost except for the artifact (and are martial weapons, not simple). So you cannot use them. Period.
You seem to be missing something. Read about sizing, metalline, and morphing weapons. Now apply those abilities to an unarmed strike (fist). The Kensai specifically says in its description of how its favored weapon works that you can take your natural attacks (in this case fists) as your favored weapon. The build ultimately either takes Improved Unarmed Strike or a level of monk. This is not to mention the fact that Warforged get a slam as a natural attack and could thus use this instead of an unarmed strike. I would prefer, however, to be able to make a normal full attack and am choosing my fists.
To make that long story short, because you can't seem to grasp the concept, the magic is applied to the fists and the fists then become swords, axes, knives, ect...
Now what is your character doing from levels 1 to 8ish in combat (he is wasting his weapon focus feats on something he cannot do/use) It looks like hes carrying a club or quarterstaff for free to do battle, since he doesn't have IUS (or he is just using his natural slam attack). Now I will grant you you can just walk around with a simple club, but once you get to Kensai, you have to pick our signature weapon. At that time, you have to have weapon focus in something. You only have it in fullblade, thus is requires you to have a MW one, violating your vow. You dont get to pick morphing as a bonus equivalent until AFTER you are into the class. Your plan does not work as
listed.
The build still shows VoPoverty at level 1.
Fighter 1/warblade 5/kensai 8/+6 warblade
1) Fighter: EWP: Fullblade, Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, [some exalted feat], AC bonus +4
2) Warblade: [some exalted feat], battle clarity (Reflex saves), weapon aptitude, 1st level manoeuvres
3) Warblade: Combat Expertise, AC bonus +5, endure elements, endure elements, uncanny dodge
4) Warblade: [stat increase], [some exalted feat], exalted strike +1, battle ardour (criticals), 2nd level manoeuvres
5) Warblade: [bonus feat], sustenance
6) Warblade: Weapon Focus (fullblade), [some exalted feat], AC bonus +6, deflection +1, improved uncanny dodge, 3rd level manoeuvres
7) Kensai: signature weapon, resistance +1, ability score enhancement +2
At this point you lose all benefits of VoP (or you did not actually qualify for Kensai)
Who said I have weapon focus in fullblade? It actually ends up being in Unarmed Strike so that it meshes with the Kensai...
VoP does not need to be taken at level 1. In fact, the build I am preparing to present does not take it until level 12 which is about the same time frame the build will have 5 levels of Kensai which
allows for metalline, sizing, and morphing to be added. Prior to level 12 he either uses his unarmed strike from monk levels OR a normal weapon due to his proficiencies as a fighter.Who said I have weapon focus in fullblade? It actually ends up being in Unarmed Strike so that it meshes with the Kensai...
[snip]
Hyfigh: My DEEPEST apolgies, it was Mister Sinister who said that. Serves me for not double checking. I was arguing based on his build since it was the only one listed in the thread. I agree if you go WF: unarmed your gold. It is
Mister Sinisters build that CANNOT work as written. And all of my points against his build are 100% correct for the reasons I listed. I am looking forward to seeing Hyfigh's character build.
It's not full eberron. All official WoTC books allowed.
Do you like Incarnum? Or do you feel like the Warblade will net you more benefits? (I'm not knowledgeable on ToB)
Hyfigh: My DEEPEST apolgies, it was Mister Sinister who said that. Serves me for not double checking. I was arguing based on his build since it was the only one listed in the thread. I agree if you go WF: unarmed your gold. It is
Mister Sinisters build that CANNOT work as written. And all of my points against his build are 100% correct for the reasons I listed. I am looking forward to seeing Hyfigh's character build.
Understood. Sorry for the misunderstanding then. I have a build nearly finished and should have something posted either this evening if I have time, or tomorrow morning.
Do you like Incarnum? Or do you feel like the Warblade will net you more benefits? (I'm not knowledgeable on ToB)
Incarnum is a blast. It would fit the spirit of the build very well however I've almost finished my idea for a normal fighter style character. If you'd like to take a stab at a build involving incarnum, I'm sure it would work wonderfully (and perhaps be even a little more optimal than the one I'm presenting).
A warforged monks unarmed strikes would be considered masterwork weapons. Being made of metal, they would be valuable. Would this also prevent the warforged monk from taking VoP? Not quite... He can't sell the adamantine or mithril because it is what his body is composed of.
Why exactly couldnt he sail them? He just cuts off his hand, removes the mithril or adamantine, and sells it to a merchent with value based on weight.
I fail to see any rule that renders the material the warforged is maid of a worthless. Even the FAQ suggests you should house rule it as it is tasteless, but not based on valid rules reasons.
It seems the DMG is quite clear on the value of these materials, and any character who takes a vow of poverty would be voilating both the spirit and the letter of the rules for VoP. You would have to create some sort of house rule which explanes just why the 20 plus pounds of rare and valuable material on your back is rendered worthless to all, and if you can get a house rule for that whats the point as you could just make a pointless house rule to allow anything. The point of character optomization is to atleast try to follow the letter and spirit of the rules as you do it, otherwise it's just self diluded cheeting.
Why exactly couldnt he sail them? He just cuts off his hand, removes the mithril or adamantine, and sells it to a merchent with value based on weight.
I fail to see any rule that renders the material the warforged is maid of a worthless. Even the FAQ suggests you should house rule it as it is tasteless, but not based on valid rules reasons.
It seems the DMG is quite clear on the value of these materials, and any character who takes a vow of poverty would be voilating both the spirit and the letter of the rules for VoP. You would have to create some sort of house rule which explanes just why the 20 plus pounds of rare and valuable material on your back is rendered worthless to all, and if you can get a house rule for that whats the point as you could just make a pointless house rule to allow anything. The point of character optomization is to atleast try to follow the letter and spirit of the rules as you do it, otherwise it's just self diluded cheeting.
Well for starters I could give a rats
how you think RAW for VoP should be inturpreted because the gaming groups already established:No because it works like natural armor. The DM's already made a ruliing on it and it's our gaming groups inturpritation that the armor feats don't count against the VoP no items thing anymore than a monks unarmed strike counting as a masterwork weapon would
So either way YOU want to rule, I don't care.
As far as RAW goes, so because the Warforged could dismantle itself in order to sell itself for the value of his Adamantine or Mithril (and thus no longer be a functioning character) he couldn't qualify for VoP? OK, sure. If you want to rule it that way, go right ahead. To be honest though you're inturpretation doesn't matter for the sake of this build per the reason stated above. Not to mention that a Warforged by default not being able to qualify for VoP because he's made of metal (normal metals are valuable enough to mess up VoP) is kind of rediculous.
Edit: Sorry for being so blunt but the people nay-saying this build are not seeming to read the entire thread before posting. The way the group reads the RAW has already been stated and won't change because some monkey on the boards thinks it shouldn't be. If you don't agree with the way we read it, don't post. I'm looking for suggestions how to create a build, not opinions on why you think it won't work.
If there is a problems with the order of classes taken, or not being able to take a certain feat for some reason, feel free to chime in. If something doesn't seem right I'll either fix it or explain why it works in our group.
Also, if we want to argue chopping off limbs and selling them, I'm sure there are more than a few nutty wizards that would pay handsomely for random pieces of various creatures. Does that mean that every creature has an innate value to their body, and therefore can't qualify for VoP?
Granted, I think VoP warforged is a little cheesy, but since I had a NPC that was a VoP warforged soulknife/paladin, I can't throw stones. :D
Classes probably taken in that order.
Feats:
1-Adamantine Body, Fighter 1-Power Attack
Fighter 2-Improved Bull Rush
3-Improved Unarmed Strike
Fighter 4-Combat Expertise
6-Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike
9-Sacred Vow
12-Vow of Poverty
15-True Believer
18-Skill Focus: Knowledge (Religion)
Base Saves: F-14, R-4, Wis-12 -- They aren't anything special but add in the improved stats from VoP and they aren't bad with the exception of reflex. This is taken care of by his Withstand ability from the Kensai (allows him to make a concentration check in place of a reflex save). On successful saves, he takes no ill effect (mettle and prescient sense).
BAB-15/10/5
He is also immune to critical hits, nonlethal damage, all mind-affecting spells and abilities, death and necromancy effects, and ability damage or ability drain.
He overcomes most DR types without much fore-thought as he can change his weapon type and the metal it is made from at will (as a standard action, perhaps two).
He can use his Weapon Aptitude from Warblade to change his proficiency so that he is able to use an exotic weapon of his choice for the day without penalty.
He can't be affected by healing school spells however his fast healing gained from VoP will still stick and he can be affected by the repair spells.
His AC isn't horrible and can be made marginally better by turning one of his fists into a shield (+2 shield, +5 enhancement from exalted strike).
I'll be posting a copy of the build in an edit of the OP for sake of ease. Questions? Concerns?
I was thinking of slapping on the dragonborn template for extraordinary flight. There's a substitution class in the dragon magic book which lets you trade your heavy armour prof for an innate armour bonus. While this will not stack with that of VOP, I think the armour bonus is nonetheless better(7+1/3character lv, max12).
What you can do though is take your normal composite (+2) and that won't stack either, but that's what you put your non-plussed enchantments on.
1- Warforged Juggernaut requires it as a feat so for this build, I'm stuck.
2- The AC is really nice until it is finally surpassed by VoP. The AC it provides isn't bad and starting off with effectively free full plate isn't a bad deal.
Monk 2/ Paladin 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ SoulKnife 5/ Shou Disciple 5/ Iaijutsu Master 2/ Shiba Protector 1
Swashbuckler 1……….…….weapon finnesse/Wpn Focus(unarmed)/ Alertness
Monk(variant) 1……………. imp unarmed / dodge
Monk(variant) 2….…………mobiltiy/Wpn Focus(Katana)
Paladin 1
Paladin 2
Swashbuckler 2.............quickdraw
Swashbuckler 3
SoulKnife 1………………...….wild talent/ Wpn Focus(mindblade)
SoulKnife 2………………….exotic weapon(Katana)
SoulKnife 3
SoulKnife 4
SoulKnife 5........………………….iron will
Shou Disciple 1
Shou Disciple 2……………...Combat expertise
Shou Disciple 3……………...Sacred vow
Shou Disciple 4……………..improved Initiative
Shou Disciple 5
iaijutsu master 1…………….VOP /weapon finnesse(Katana)/exalted feat
iaijutsu master 2
Shiba Protector 1...........exalted feat
you end up with :
BAB +16
Int to AC
Int to Damage
Wis to AC
Wis to Attack
Wis to Damage
Dex to AC
Dex to Attack
Dex to Initiative
Cha to all saves
Cha to Initiative
10 Str.....10
24 Dex....14 + 4 VOP+5 inherent +1 lvl
16 Con.....14+2 VOP
23 Int........14+6 VOP+3 inherent
30 Wis......14+4 inherent+4 lvls +8 VOP
18 Cha......14+4 inherent
424480gp 16 wishes (inherent ability scores)
BAB +16....all weapons are considered magic and good
full attack with flurry(16+10 wis+7 dex+5 VOP+1(wpn focus)-1 flurry)
+38/+38/+33/+28/23
Damage:
Unarmed= 2d6+6 Int+10 Wis +5 VOP enhancement = average 27
Soulknife= 1d10 +6 Int+10 Wis +5 VOP enhancement = average 26+1d6 Psychic
53 AC 10+10 wis +6 Int +7 dex+10 VOP +2 Natural +3 Deflection +3 Dodge +1 dodge+1 unnamed monk
Benefits from a VOP:
Energy resistance 15
True seeing constant effect
Freedom of movement constant effect
DR 10/evil and magic
Mindshield constant effect
Regenerate 20 hp/hour
No need to Eat/ Drink/ Breath
not too bad for a character with no weapons, no armor, no items at all
:D
The purpose of the thread is to make a VoP character based loosely around fighter (using actual weapons) but still be effective.
I think I will try to use incarnum in another build to see what I can come up with. I know one of the powers summons a weapon for the character.
Thats a really sweet build.
But!
Ordinary Simple Weapons (Nonmagical) - Actually means you cant use kensai weapons, mindblades etc.
Also a Warforged must take the Unarmored Body feat.
So let this thread be
burnt to the ground by the fire
of your hatered towards me
Holy *boob* is that a haiku O.O
I wanna go back to the world where all these work, I don't like this anymore
Carnivore
Thats a really sweet build.
But!
Ordinary Simple Weapons (Nonmagical) - Actually means you cant use kensai weapons, mindblades etc.
Also a Warforged must take the Unarmored Body feat.
So let this thread be
burnt to the ground by the fire
of your hatered towards me
Holy *boob* is that a haiku O.O
I wanna go back to the world where all these work, I don't like this anymore
Seriously? How many times do we need to go through this?
A kensai can choose ANY weapon they have Weapon Focus in for their signature weapon ability. The soulblade CAN choose to take weapon focus in his mindblade. Being as the mindblade is an inherrent part of the soulblade and he cannot sell it, it does NOT count against the VoP requirements.
A warforged does NOT need to take Unarmored Body because:
1-His plating does not count against his VoP requirements for the same reason as a soulblades mindblade.
and 2-My gaming group has already ruled that the plating does not count against VoP (even if errata comes down saying otherwise, we won't care as it wouldn't make sense).
I'll say it again, though...
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD READ THE ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE POSTING SOMETHING ABOUT HOW YOU DON'T THINK THE RULING IS CORRECT BECAUSE, FRANKLY, I DON'T
CARE HOW YOU WANT TO RULE IT!Edit: You know, I was thinking about how you may rule against a mindblade becuase it is not a simple non-magic weapon and that got me wondering. How, with that logic, could VoP not be self defeating?
As soon as you receive Exalted Strike any weapon you wield becomes a +1 or better magic weapon. That in and of itself would stop your VoP right there and the feat, and thus the bonus', would cease to function.
I just can't justify not allowing a Soulblade or a Warforged to take the feat because of the inherent bonuses they are granted either through feats or class features.
That sounds pretty darn niffty. Care to share a build?
Well, according to the sage, warforged can take the dragonborn template and retain most of their racial features(like their immunities), losing only the composite plating(no biggie, it doesn't stack with vop anyways) and a few minor stuff. And dragonborn can opt to fly...
There is this class feature in dragon magic which lets you grow armour if you eschew wearing normal armour. The armour bonus granted is 7+(1/3 class lvs granting heavy armour prof), which substantially outstrips the armour bonus granted by VOP, at lower lvs anyways(though they do not stack). At higher lvs, it even grants some misc bonuses such as minor elemental resistances.
It's not so much a build as a general idea. I think others pretty much have the build nailed down. I can't compete with them on that.:P
Seriously? How many times do we need to go through this?
A kensai can choose ANY weapon they have Weapon Focus in for their signature weapon ability. The soulblade CAN choose to take weapon focus in his mindblade. Being as the mindblade is an inherrent part of the soulblade and he cannot sell it, it does NOT count against the VoP requirements.
A warforged does NOT need to take Unarmored Body because:
1-His plating does not count against his VoP requirements for the same reason as a soulblades mindblade.
and 2-My gaming group has already ruled that the plating does not count against VoP (even if errata comes down saying otherwise, we won't care as it wouldn't make sense).
I'll say it again, though...
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD READ THE ENTIRE THREAD BEFORE POSTING SOMETHING ABOUT HOW YOU DON'T THINK THE RULING IS CORRECT BECAUSE, FRANKLY, I DON'T
Edit: You know, I was thinking about how you may rule against a mindblade becuase it is not a simple non-magic weapon and that got me wondering. How, with that logic, could VoP not be self defeating?
As soon as you receive Exalted Strike any weapon you wield becomes a +1 or better magic weapon. That in and of itself would stop your VoP right there and the feat, and thus the bonus', would cease to function.
I just can't justify not allowing a Soulblade or a Warforged to take the feat because of the inherent bonuses they are granted either through feats or class features.
It's simple, if you think with your grown up brain instead of your cry baby brain. If you follow the SPIRIT of the VoP feat it all makes sense and what you can and can't do is very clear. If you try to debate each and every letter of the rule untill you get your way you will keep seeing issues pop up. Like how does all that mithril/adamantine just vanish into thin air if it leaves your body. Or more importently, how does your saintly (as that is the point of VoP) warforged justify all that magical power instead of being the champion of self relience and icon to the poor he's supposed to be. "Mommy, why do we go hungry while that metal man clothes himself with enough wealth to feed the hole village? Cus the church is full of robot loveing hypocrits sun"
And while you manage to whine you group into submission for this travisty of the word "Role Playing", why not convence them that a perminent spell cast on you doesn't count against your wealth eyther, as you can't sell it. Never mind the fact that it may cost X gold pieces to begin with.
If you follow the SPIRIT of the VoP feat it all makes sense and what you can and can't do is very clear.
Really? Even the spirit of the vow(or at least your interpretation) doesn't seem to make sense to me...;)
Nonlethal substitution + MW Manacles as a bounty hunter who always brings back his prey alive.
-=TD=-
It's simple, if you think with your grown up brain instead of your cry baby brain. If you follow the SPIRIT of the VoP feat it all makes sense and what you can and can't do is very clear. If you try to debate each and every letter of the rule untill you get your way you will keep seeing issues pop up. Like how does all that mithril/adamantine just vanish into thin air if it leaves your body. Or more importently, how does your saintly (as that is the point of VoP) warforged justify all that magical power instead of being the champion of self relience and icon to the poor he's supposed to be. "Mommy, why do we go hungry while that metal man clothes himself with enough wealth to feed the hole village? Cus the church is full of robot loveing hypocrits sun"
And while you manage to whine you group into submission for this travisty of the word "Role Playing", why not convence them that a perminent spell cast on you doesn't count against your wealth eyther, as you can't sell it. Never mind the fact that it may cost X gold pieces to begin with.
In light of my previous posts already telling you I don't care what you think, further posts from you about how you don't think it will work will be reported as an attempt to derail the thread and trolling. I've already explained my logic and being that this is something that can only be an interpretation you aren't going to change mine, or anyone elses mind who has already argued against your points. I understand I won't change your mind, which is the reason I've simply asked you to stop posting unless you're presenting a build or a rules question that already hasn't been addressed.
So, I've played a similar character...not a Warforged...but, it's something similar to this.
Nonlethal substitution + MW Manacles as a bounty hunter who always brings back his prey alive.
That sounds exceptionally interesting. Care to indulge us in some of the more specific mechanics?
later
:D
In light of my previous posts already telling you I don't care what you think, further posts from you about how you don't think it will work will be reported as an attempt to derail the thread and trolling.
If you click on his name, and go to his public profile, you will see an ignore button. I think it is the greatest feature on the boards. The other one is: report this post to a moderator. :P
Even in DnD there's a market for them. Book of Vile Darkness lists various human organs as optional spell components which have a very real cost.
So, I guess human's can't take VoP either. Or Elves, Halflings, Dwarves, Half-Orc's, or basically anyone with organs.
But that's different you say?
How?
So, I've played a similar character...not a Warforged...but, it's something similar to this.
Nonlethal substitution + MW Manacles as a bounty hunter who always brings back his prey alive.
-=TD=-
MW would violate the wealth reqs of the VOP. :P
===Aelryinth
why not just avoid armor completely......just be human...try this take the VOP late...18th lvl...spend all the money until then on wishes to boost abilities
Monk 2/ Paladin 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ SoulKnife 5/ Shou Disciple 5/ Iaijutsu Master 2/ Shiba Protector 1
Swashbuckler 1……….…….weapon finnesse/Wpn Focus(unarmed)/ Alertness
Monk(variant) 1……………. imp unarmed / dodge
Monk(variant) 2….…………mobiltiy/Wpn Focus(Katana)
Paladin 1
Paladin 2
Swashbuckler 2.............quickdraw
Swashbuckler 3
SoulKnife 1………………...….wild talent/ Wpn Focus(mindblade)
SoulKnife 2………………….exotic weapon(Katana)
SoulKnife 3
SoulKnife 4
SoulKnife 5........………………….iron will
Shou Disciple 1
Shou Disciple 2……………...Combat expertise
Shou Disciple 3……………...Sacred vow
Shou Disciple 4……………..improved Initiative
Shou Disciple 5
iaijutsu master 1…………….VOP /weapon finnesse(Katana)/exalted feat
iaijutsu master 2
Shiba Protector 1...........exalted feat
you end up with :
BAB +16
Int to AC
Int to Damage
Wis to AC
Wis to Attack
Wis to Damage
Dex to AC
Dex to Attack
Dex to Initiative
Cha to all saves
Cha to Initiative
10 Str.....10
24 Dex....14 + 4 VOP+5 inherent +1 lvl
16 Con.....14+2 VOP
23 Int........14+6 VOP+3 inherent
30 Wis......14+4 inherent+4 lvls +8 VOP
18 Cha......14+4 inherent
424480gp 16 wishes (inherent ability scores)
BAB +16....all weapons are considered magic and good
full attack with flurry(16+10 wis+7 dex+5 VOP+1(wpn focus)-1 flurry)
+38/+38/+33/+28/23
Damage:
Unarmed= 2d6+6 Int+10 Wis +5 VOP enhancement = average 27
Soulknife= 1d10 +6 Int+10 Wis +5 VOP enhancement = average 26+1d6 Psychic
53 AC 10+10 wis +6 Int +7 dex+10 VOP +2 Natural +3 Deflection +3 Dodge +1 dodge+1 unnamed monk
Benefits from a VOP:
Energy resistance 15
True seeing constant effect
Freedom of movement constant effect
DR 10/evil and magic
Mindshield constant effect
Regenerate 20 hp/hour
No need to Eat/ Drink/ Breath
not too bad for a character with no weapons, no armor, no items at all
:D
This won't work, I'm afraid. You are violating the spirit of the Oath.
"MR. Dm, I'm going to convert all my gold into permanent buffs so that I don't have any money when it's time for my VoP, so that I can gain the full VoP benefits which are designed to replace any gold benefits I have, and they'll stack!"
No. This was VERY firmly ruled against. You are an exalted character and can't play games with the rules...you must adhere to the Spirit as well as the Letter of the Rules. If you wish to take the Vow, you'd have to give up the inherent bonuses you PAID for. No assets whatsoever.
And if you want to complain about how you can possibly get rid of them...the entities which give you the Vow can certainly do so, with your approval. If you don't approve, then you aren't worthy of the Vow anyways.
===Aelryinth
On your second, you're not getting it. He's suggesting you play the character 18 levels and THEN take the vow. Nothing wrong with that. It'd be a hard sell if you were trying to join a game as an 18th+ level character, but prior to that I see no problem. It's up to his DM, right?
I don't know for sure, but I would bet that our group would rule that any inherent bonus's picked up prior to taking the feat (inherent = something that you can't sell) would not count against the feat.
Black market organs go for large amounts of money.
Ach, you beat me to it. I'll say it this way then:
"Mommy, why do we go hungry while that man over there goes walking around with all of his kidneys still in his body? And he has his eyes, mommy. We could sell those for to that black skinned elf down the street and get enough money to eat for a week. Why is that evil man being so greedy?"
"Cuz the church is full of sight loving hypocrites. son. Now, help me hold this bum down. He's still squirming..."
Anyhow, with the build: Seriously, I would bump up your unarmed attack damage. There is nothing more irritaing then being a primary melee guy who deals 1d6 plus 3 for damage at 15th level. Other than that, I have nothing useful to add.
Good to see someone not making another VoP monk. A Fighter is awesome.
Ranger2/ Fighter 2/ Psichic Warrior 2/ Psion 2/ Slayer 4/ Pyrokineticist 8
use Psychic Scimitar(2nd lvl power,1min/lvl duration...Melee touch attacks all,no save, no SR/PR)
Weapon Afire(4d6 additional fire damage with Psychic Scimitar)
and 8d6 ranged fire bolt
can use alternate energy(Sonokineticist= Sound based,Ascetokineticist=Acid,etc.... look here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e)
or this:
Ranger2/ Fighter 4/ Psichic Warrior 2/ Pyrokineticist 8/ Lasher 4
max out the Fire lash
or this:
Psion 7/ Pyrokineticist 4/ Dervish 9
use Psychic Scimitar to maximum efficiency......can use Weapon Finnesse with it also
or this:
Ranger2/ Fighter 2/ Psion 2/ Elocator 6/ Pyrokineticist 4/ Lasher 4
using Fire lash....and great movement abilities
or a simple:
Fighter 12/ Pyrokineticist 4/ Lasher 4
must be a Psionic race or take the feat "Wild talent"
or even a fun:
Fighter 16/ Psychic Warrior 2/ Pyrokineticist 2
use Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike(2d6 unarmed damage), and Hand Afire(+2d6)
:D
It really would be up to the DM.
I don't know for sure, but I would bet that our group would rule that any inherent bonus's picked up prior to taking the feat (inherent = something that you can't sell) would not count against the feat.
This comes from the Sage and stuff...inherent bonuses gained via cash are no different then grafts or the like. There was a whole thread about ways to spend money before taking the VOP to max out and essentially double dip your benefits...and they were shot down.
Spirit AND Letter of the Rules. You are playing games with both...you are actually going out and trying to design a character who can get around the restrictions of the Vow of Poverty by using up his gold!
An Exalted character does not DO that. Remember, you are a SAINTLY character. It isn't just having no material possessions...it's having none of the benefits that material possessions can bring you, which includes all those magical benefits.
If Your DM rules that way, it IS a House Rule. Just be aware of how actively you are suborning the intentions of the VOW.
Also, at level 18 you lose out on all those bonus Exalted Feats you can pick up...
===Aelryinth
This comes from the Sage and stuff...inherent bonuses gained via cash are no different then grafts or the like. There was a whole thread about ways to spend money before taking the VOP to max out and essentially double dip your benefits...and they were shot down.
Spirit AND Letter of the Rules. You are playing games with both...you are actually going out and trying to design a character who can get around the restrictions of the Vow of Poverty by using up his gold!
An Exalted character does not DO that. Remember, you are a SAINTLY character. It isn't just having no material possessions...it's having none of the benefits that material possessions can bring you, which includes all those magical benefits.
If Your DM rules that way, it IS a House Rule. Just be aware of how actively you are suborning the intentions of the VOW.
Also, at level 18 you lose out on all those bonus Exalted Feats you can pick up...
===Aelryinth
We play with plenty of house rules and I never claimed this to be completely RAW. The builds I am trying to make, however, are following RAW and do NOT use tricks like permenancy and wish to gain more benefits. If that came into effect it, again, would be something our group would houserule.
Note how his post starts out..."Until then, use all your money to BUY wishes for Inherent bonuses."
In other words, he's trying to take his money with him. A flagrant violation of the spirit of the Vow.
===Aelryinth
My apologies, I was replying to Carnivore, not to you.
Note how his post starts out..."Until then, use all your money to BUY wishes for Inherent bonuses."
In other words, he's trying to take his money with him. A flagrant violation of the spirit of the Vow.
===Aelryinth
:embarrass Sorry. I've just been so used to people trying to tell me that certain things won't work when I've already said it's houseruled.
Now for a RAW question. What if you hadn't paid for the wish(s)? The parties Dweomokeeper casts them on you for no charge and no cost to him, or even another spell with permanency for that matter. The description of the feat doesn't seem to bar from this and does say you can recieve the benefits of spells cast on you by others. You aren't utilizing the parties monetary resources and couldn't turn around and sell those spells that had been cast. I can't really see this as going against even the spirit of the feat. You're using a free mechanism to better yourself in order help the poor even more.
"Mommy, why do we go hungry while that man over there goes walking around with all of his kidneys still in his body? And he has his eyes, mommy. We could sell those for to that black skinned elf down the street and get enough money to eat for a week. Why is that evil man being so greedy?"
"Cuz the church is full of sight loving hypocrites. son. Now, help me hold this bum down. He's still squirming..."
Your stories certainly live up to your screen name.
My apologies, I was replying to Carnivore, not to you.
Note how his post starts out..."Until then, use all your money to BUY wishes for Inherent bonuses."
In other words, he's trying to take his money with him. A flagrant violation of the spirit of the Vow.
===Aelryinth
this is CO....RAW is the rule......the problem is you are trying to apply your own House Rule to a feat that requires the DM to enforce thru ROLE-Play.....the spirit of the VOW does not apply the way you say.....if a character decides to save his money...and spend it in a way(like for wishes)...and later decides to take a VOP....to impute improper motives is wrong(applying Metagame knowledge) and Poor DMing....you may wish to watch such a character...but that is the Whole point of Exalted characters
:D
this is CO....RAW is the rule......the problem is you are trying to apply your own House Rule to a feat that requires the DM to enforce thru ROLE-Play.....the spirit of the VOW does not apply the way you say.....if a character decides to save his money...and spend it in a way(like for wishes)...and later decides to take a VOP....to impute improper motives is wrong(applying Metagame knowledge) and Poor DMing....you may wish to watch such a character...but that is the Whole point of Exalted characters
:D
And really, there is a penalty for doing that - you lose out on all those exalted feats. That's what you lose for late-game VoP.
:D
Ascetic Characters:......Monks, Some Druids, Psions, Wilders, Soulknives
other classes could take it....but it would have to be later in thier career(after 10th), after they are able to make an imformed decision that "Material possesions" are not that important or that they want to free themselves of material things to pursue thier careers without the burdens of objects and Materialism
:D
And really, there is a penalty for doing that - you lose out on all those exalted feats. That's what you lose for late-game VoP.
Considering that there are really only so many useful exalted feats actually worth taking, it might be worth it to save up for a +5 stat tome or 2 to use before taking the VOP feat...
How would grafts work with the VOP feat, assuming you acquired them before taking the VOP feat?
Do grafts (such as those from Fiend Folio) count as
possessions for the purpose of taking a Vow of Poverty? If
so, what happens to a creature with grafts who wants to
take the feat? Should he cut off his arm or leg in order to
take the feat?
The Sage recommends that grafts be considered
“possessions” for the purpose of adjudicating the Vow of
Poverty (to avoid abusing the spirit of the vow). Some grafts
specifically describe how they may be removed (such as the
aboleth grafts on page 208). In other cases, physical removal of
the graft—which might well require amputation or the like—is
almost certainly necessary.
For a variety of reasons, the game rules don’t go into detail
about the effects of such “surgery.” Unless the DM is
comfortable creating a set of house rules to handle such
situations, the Sage recommends that the DM not worry about
the grisly details, instead assuming that the PC survives the
procedure without any long-term effects other than the obvious
(a character without eyes is blind, for example, while a
character missing a hand can’t wield a two-handed weapon). Of
course, a regenerate spell solves even these problems.
personally i would treat this about the same as i treat the new rule for Astral Constructs....but to each his own...now this is RAW
:D
Could you, however, post that finding to this thread? It was created for the sole purpose of arguing the RAW behind the VoP feat so that this thread isn't derailed...
:D
Plus, a few of the things I had brought up were houserulings and people were still trying to argue them. It was just getting on my nerves that I had already addressed certain issues 3 times and people were continuing to argue with me.
Human
Soulknife 1/Monk 2/ Fighter 16/ Shiba Protector 1
Wis to Attack and Damage and AC
lots of feats
:D
grafts used to be OK...before the FAQ...notice
personally i would treat this about the same as i treat the new rule for Astral Constructs....but to each his own...now this is RAW
:D
Hmmm, ok, I didn't know that a removed graft still had a value, but this brings up an interesting point.
If a graft is considered an item(retaining its value) even when attached to you, does that mean you can sunder it? 0_o.
EXA:....Slithar Blood...gives you Fast Healing 2, cost 110000gp......how do you remove it.....why even consider it..
"i think that i am tired of all my material possesions keeping me from my pursiut of enlightenment....so i will renounce all my worldly goods and live a life of Poverty......opps, i forgot...i need to drain all my blood first"
there are some items that specifically say that they cant be removed.......Quori Embedded Shards(MoE).....they become part of you when embedded .....should you be prevented from taking a feat later in life after you had them embeded early in your career...when you were young and inexperianced.....i dont think so
It might be something to consider as well, the only thing is though is that all classes and prestige classes you take must offer heavy armor proficiency at some point, and not by obtainable by feat for the AC bonus to progress and improve. It also offers Energy Resistance to Fire, Acid, Cold and Electricity similiar to the vow of poverty i reckon, up to +20 resistance for each. The AC bonus for the husk basically caps at +12.
The feats Dragon Wing and Improved Dragon Wing help get around the fact you can't fly.
I'm still of the school that dropping VoP only makes this better. You open a couple feats AND allow for some items.
2) I said it once and I'll say it again. The question is not "can I take a VoP per RAW with this?" The question is "will the churches accept my VoP despite this?" All sacred vows are the holiest of holy rites, a warforged covered in precious metals, strange grafts, and magical books worth hundreds of GP in value should have to atone for his past sins (either through some kind of surgery or the wish spell) or he is not ready for an exalted lifestyle.
3) Rhonin the Big hates the vow of poverty. It has one gigantic, glaring roleplaying requirement that we cannot ignore; this is contrary to the spirit of CO where we ignore roleplaying requirements and look solely on the mechanical side of things. So in the name of Pun-pun, anybody who tries to optimize Vow of Poverty will implode!
4) Hyfigh, drop the VoP and you might have a solid warforged. A fighter with a VoP is like an Ooze Wizard, you are too dependent on what you give up.
VOP warforged do exist i've seen them!!!
4) Hyfigh, drop the VoP and you might have a solid warforged. A fighter with a VoP is like an Ooze Wizard, you are too dependent on what you give up.
I agree whole-heartedly. I was just trying to see if it would still work on at least a moderate level with VoP. It's no secret that VoP is suboptimal even from most RP standpoints.
Quick question about several of Carnivore's builds involving Lasher. What is it in and what does it do? Obviously something with a whip (lash), but I've never seen it...
It's from an old splat book Sword and Fist in 3e. It was never updated so is still a valid PrC. Its focus is whip usage, providing a few tricks with whips, the ability to deal lethal damage with a normal whip, and a few sneak attack dice.
Lasher
(whip master)(S&F p25)(S&Fe)+
reqs:[indent]
Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Feat: Weapon Focus (Whip).
Rope Use: 2 ranks.
Craft (leatherworking)2 ranks.
Proficiency with Whip.
[/indent]
HD: d10
BAB: Fighter
Good Save: Ref
Skill Points: 2 + Int bonus/ lvl
Class Skills:
Balance,Craft,Escape Artist,Intimidate,Jump,Spot,Use Rope
Class Abilities:
1st Lvl:
+1d6 whip sneak attack.
You can do Lethal damage with a whip.
Can make an Attack of Opportunity vs. foes within 5’ as a melee weapon.
Cna use Whip and Not provoke Attacks of opportunity from Foes that threaten you.
2nd lvl:
Act as if you have the Feat: Improve Trip when using a whip or whip-dagger.
Use the whip as a 3rd hand(can pick up things,use as Grapple,etc...).
the way you get to use the Lasher with a VOP.... Pyrokineticist has this:
Fire Lash (Ps): A pyrokineticist gains the ability to fashion a 15-foot-long whip of fire from unstable ectoplasm as a move-equivalent action. She takes no damage from a fire lash she creates, and if she releases her hold, it immediately dissipates. The lash deals 1d8 points of fire damage to a target within 15 feet on a successful ranged touch attack. A pyro can take Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization (if she otherwise meets the prerequisites) in conjunction with the fire lash, as well as any feats that apply to the use of a standard whip. The whip remains in existence as long as the pyrokineticist holds it.
thus it is a very handy ability for a VOP character
:D
I would go with Warforged Jugg over Occult Slayer.
All hail the thread necromancer! :D
Hello this is the CO board that's what we do and people ask for!
Another nice note about grafts: they are considered extraordinary which means anti magic fields are no problem for them.