1 Dragonfire Adept 1
2 Dragon Shaman 1
3 DfA 2
4 DfA 3 (con +1)
5 Human Paragon 1
6 HuP 2
7 HuP 3 (con +2)
8 DfA 4 (con +1)
9 DfA 5
10 DfA 6
11 DfA 7
12 DfA 8
13 DfA 9
14 DfA 10
15 DfA 11
16 DfA 12
17 DfA 13
18 DfA 14
19 DfA 15
20 DfA 16
The Dragon Shaman level is for healing and boost to the whole party. Also I'll get armor and shield proficiency.
Then there is the Human Paragon-levels. These 3 levels will boost my invocations and breathweapon by 2 levels and give me another +2 Con and a bonus feat.
Starting with Con 18 I'll have Con 22 at 8th level. With Ability Focus and Dragon Aura (energy) I could get a breath weapon with DC 25 at 8th level.
Any thoughts/suggestions?
What feats do you have? Please tell me you took Entangling Exhalation?
I'd recommend against the DS level. Arguably, you can take draconic auras as feats because you have the Dragonblooded subtype. Its not worth the loss of "caster levels".
The problem is that we don't have any healers in our party. In addition to the Vigor-aura I'm thinking of the Energy Shield and Senses auras. I'll use Senses before combat. Energy Shield and Vigor in combat. And maybe Vigor after combat.
Also, while spell casting is specifically called out as advancing Invocations (see Warlocks and PrCs in CArcane), HParagon wouldn't advance your breath weapon.
Why not?
...but she does gain an increased caster level when using her invocations and increased damage with her breath weapon. Levels of prestige classes that provide +1 level of spellcasting effectively stacks with the dragonfire adept's level to determine her breath weapon damage and save DC. She also gains new invocations at each prestige class level as though she had risen a level in the dragonfire adept class.
As far as armor/shield proficiency, I'd skip DS if you are doing it primarily for that. You can go with the usual caster defense of a Twilight Mithril Chain/Mithril Buckler for a total of 0 ASF and 0 ACP.
It's not my primary motive, that's the auras. But D10 HD, good +2 "dip-saves" and armor/shield proficiencies are all good.
What feats do you have? Please tell me you took Entangling Exhalation?
I'm at 1st level and got Entangling Exhalation and Ability Focus.
I still don't think the 1 level of Dragon Shaman is worth it. You can take 1 feat to grab Vigor Aura, and cover Energy Resistance and Sense with Invocations. Its your character though.
The Draconic Aura feat can then effectively be taken by a DFA, and advance with character level, up to +4 at level 20. You can even take the feat twice, and take Double Draconic Aura feat to project two different auras at once, if you so desire.
If you are a good DFA, you should consider becoming Dragonborn for the +2 con adjustment (Races of the Dragon).
I would stay away from anything that loses breath weapon advancement, including paragon. DFA 20 is pretty nice on its own.
Armor: Mithril, Darkwood & Feytouched (phb2). If you're not using any combat invocations, you can pretty much ignore ASF altogether.
Still, he's right, sadly. DS is kind of a waste - paragon too, for that matter, since what it grants isn't really worth what you lose.
Go straight DFA - always more solid.
I HATE that ruling. Bah humbug.
me three
Don't take Dragon Shaman. Rules compendium clearly calls out that if you have multiple breath weapons you take the worst delay of all of them and apply it to each. You'd be dropping your B/W to 1d4 rounds.
...what?
Go straight DFA - always more solid.
Straight from the mouth (keyboard?) of the guide writer.
PS, JJ, you are my hero. You've caused me to fall in love with the DFA. If only I could find a gaming group to play one in. Booooooooo Kansas City.
Booooooooo Kansas City.
Hey now, no insulting my home town. Of course, I haven't gamed there in years. I hope things haven't devolved too much since I've been gone; I plan to return in about 6 years.
Don't have Dragon Magic yet (can't find any B&N's with non-roughed-up copies...), so I sadly can't privide any advice for the OP.
Don't have Dragon Magic yet (can't find any B&N's with non-roughed-up copies...), so I sadly can't privide any advice for the OP.
If you really want it for more than just B&N reading time, the store can actually order the book for you and deliver it your house for cheaper than you can buy it off their shelf. I've done this in the past with a couple of D&D books.
Of course, 4e is only about 3 weeks away....
Of course, 4e is only about 3 weeks away....
Ah, but I resist the evil of 4e with every fiber of my being...
When you've got 89 WotC hardcover d20 books, and someone all of a sudden says they are no longer good... I disagree. I've got too much invested in money and game ideas using the current rules. I might make the switch once 4.5 comes out (because we all know it will)... but I'll have to see.
Ah, but I resist the evil of 4e with every fiber of my being...
When you've got 89 WotC hardcover d20 books, and someone all of a sudden says they are no longer good... I disagree. I've got too much invested in money and game ideas using the current rules. I might make the switch once 4.5 comes out (because we all know it will)... but I'll have to see.
That'll probably happen around February 2009.
I keep telling you people that you can't pick up the Vigor aura with a feat. It's not a valid choice. You can only select from those specifically mentioned in Dragon Magic.
I agree, but the DM could certainly intervene, seeing as how the party is lacking healing power.
...what?
He's right. I made the same ruling during the Ixa'taka game's planning stages, and even I thought it was malarkey. I can understand it for different types of breath weapons (like Fire and Sleep), but for two energy types? From an Su source? Granted by a class that uses Invocations?
Never has, and never will, make sense.
I keep telling you people that you can't pick up the Vigor aura with a feat. It's not a valid choice. You can only select from those specifically mentioned in Dragon Magic.
And here I thought I was the only one who noticed that :P
~Bowen
The problem is that we don't have any healers in our party. In addition to the Vigor-aura I'm thinking of the Energy Shield and Senses auras. I'll use Senses before combat. Energy Shield and Vigor in combat. And maybe Vigor after combat.
You do know that Vigor only kicks in for folks when they are below 1/2 HP?
With zero healers, you may want another form of healing to take care of the other 1/2...
Don't take Dragon Shaman. Rules compendium clearly calls out that if you have multiple breath weapons you take the worst delay of all of them and apply it to each. You'd be dropping your B/W to 1d4 rounds.
I'm just dipping into the DrS. Drs gets BW at 4th level. So that dilemma is not relevant for me.
You can take 1 feat to grab Vigor Aura, and cover Energy Resistance and Sense with Invocations. Its your character though.
It's been said already by others: Vigor aura is not available by feat alone. You'll have to take levels in the DrS class to get it.
You do know that Vigor only kicks in for folks when they are below 1/2 HP?
With zero healers, you may want another form of healing to take care of the other 1/2...
True that. But the DrS has alot of "good feel" to it, however. Three auras, triggered by a swift action, gives me more combat options and elevates the whole party in general. And ofcourse it will not intefere with my usual "modus operandi" since aura-actions are swift by nature. And I've considered the auras that will be useful in the long run. Vigor, Senses, and Energy Shield will always be useful, no matter what character level.
The healing aspect could be attained through other means, but even a cleric at medium levels would have to use a noticeable number of resources to heal a severly damaged party (up to half hp).
So what I'm leaning towards is a cool character with good firepower, but who also can contribute to the rest of his party, elevating everyone in power. Kinda like a bard.
The Human Paragon trade-off I've decided is no good. The way I see it:
Pro:
+2 con
+1 feat
Adaptive learning (maybe escape artist)
Decent armor and shield proficiencies
Proficiency with one martial weapon (don't really need it)
Against:
-3 levels in class abilities (breath effect, breath range, scales, etc.) This is a huge drawback. Postponing i.e. increased breath range by 3 levels is too much and not worth all of the pro-aspects above together.
-1 level in BW and Invocations
-slightly better saves (considering the +2 will at 1st level)
-slightly better BaB (3/4 vs. 1/2 progress)
I think your best bet is:
Go DFA 20
If you're good, become Dragonborn
Ask your DM to house rule and let you pick up the feat Draconic Aura: Vigor from the DrS list
Rank up UMD, grab some healing wands.
Beyond that, the option to feat additional Draconic Aura, and Double Draconic Aura is there.
Forget about equipment proficiency, read this thread
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=984362
Mithral Buckler
If you're not going with any combat invocations, and thus not caring about ASF, then you can also go with the Mithral Chain Shirt. No armor check penalty.
The DrS auras will be stuck at a +1 bonus, unless your DM house rules they advance due to being dragonblooded.
I think your best bet is:
Go DFA 20
If you're good, become Dragonborn
Ask your DM to house rule and let you pick up the feat Draconic Aura: Vigor from the DrS list
Rank up UMD, grab some healing wands.
Beyond that, the option to feat additional Draconic Aura, and Double Draconic Aura is there.
+1 on the healing wands - they are arguably the best option anyway. BTW, there was a thread that showed how to make full plate give 0 % ASF... it involved mithral, twilight and a few other enhancements. Githcraft was one of them iirc.
Still, I could imagine taking a few levels in PrCs that advance your casting - paragon levels or any other.
+1 on the healing wands - they are arguably the best option anyway. BTW, there was a thread that showed how to make full plate give 0 % ASF... it involved mithral, twilight and a few other enhancements. Githcraft was one of them iirc.
Still, I could imagine taking a few levels in PrCs that advance your casting - paragon levels or any other.
Nah...the glory of the DFA is that you can go from 1 to 20 in it without multiclassing. The problem with most full progression casting classes is that they require spells/abilities to qualify that a DFA can't emulate, or they give a bunch of abilities that are worthless to the DFA.
Plus, you miss out of breath effect progression, arguably one of the best and most fun aspects of playing a DFA.
Plus, you miss out of breath effect progression, arguably one of the best and most fun aspects of playing a DFA.
Discorporating Breath of Bahamut Flyby Attack at level 15 :P
Discorporating Breath of Bahamut Flyby Attack at level 15 :P
Empowered Maximized Lingering Clinging Enlarged Five-Fold Breath of Tiamat Flyby Breath....depending no your speed, its like a 120' long by 60' wide swath of napalmy destruction with enough prismatically flavored damage to kill just about every sub-epic monster ever written....at once...
Empowered Maximized Lingering Clinging Enlarged Five-Fold Breath of Tiamat Flyby Breath....depending no your speed, its like a 120' long by 60' wide swath of napalmy destruction with enough prismatically flavored damage to kill just about every sub-epic monster ever written....at once...
How are you going to Flyby Attack when Five-Fold is a full round action?
I said Flyby Breath, but I ment Strafing Breath. Its in one of the Dragonlance books. Doesn't matter that its a full round, you still get a move with your breath, and the breath covers more like a rounded rectangle shape rather than its typical form because you are dragging it across a surface.
Cool if it works, I don't have any of the Dragonlance books on me atm.
Empowered Maximized Lingering Clinging Enlarged Five-Fold Breath of Tiamat Flyby Breath....depending no your speed, its like a 120' long by 60' wide swath of napalmy destruction with enough prismatically flavored damage to kill just about every sub-epic monster ever written....at once...
So, at L15, that's 315 damage there? Yep, I can see that being halfway decent... I also sense lots of antimagic fields if this attempted in a normal game...
So, at L15, that's 315 damage there? Yep, I can see that being halfway decent... I also sense lots of antimagic fields if this attempted in a normal game...
That, or the PC being strangled in his sleep/hit with Bestow Greater Curse to remove his breath weapon outright.
That, or the PC being strangled in his sleep/hit with Bestow Greater Curse to remove his breath weapon outright.
Yup! One must remember: the DM and the casters are always in an arms race, but the casters are Russia, and the DM is the United States.
Yup! One must remember: the DM and the casters are always in an arms race, but the casters are Russia, and the DM is the United States.
And Pun-Pun is...?
And Pun-Pun is...?
A TO joke.