Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 selaphiel Apr 23, 2009 5:08:36	As most people seem to be telling me (looks shiftily over at the revised necro handbook...) Dread necromancer is an 8 level class, no more, no less. That being said, what is a good prc to add to it? Doesn't need to be maximized to pun pun levels (I did say necromancer after all), but I would like a good addition to the Dread necro goodness.
#2 carnivore Apr 23, 2009 5:24:29	try this: Dread necromancer 8/ Warlock 3/ Eldritch Theurge 9 :D
#3 selaphiel Apr 23, 2009 6:02:53	I do love me some warlocks...
#4 jameswilliamogle Apr 23, 2009 6:42:54	Dread Necromancer 8 / Shadow Adept 2 / Incanatrix 10 Dread Necromancer 8 / Pale Master 2 / Incanatrix 10 Dread Necromancer 8 / Walker in the Waste 10 / Any full casting 2 Dread Necromancer 8 / Sorcerer 1 / Ultimate Magus 10 / DN +1 Dread Necromancer 20 also works fine Look for the Dread Necromancer handbook in my sig. Slightly more focused for Dread Necros than K's handbook on general Necromancy. A full list and commentary on PrCs, feats, spell selection, races, tricks. Hasn't been updated for Warlock stuff though.
#5 hogarth Apr 23, 2009 8:45:57	I don't think you can have an Ultimate Magus with two spontaneous casting classes. Or does it involve taking the Arcane Preparation feat? I'll throw in a recommendation for the Fiend-Blooded prestige class.
#6 jameswilliamogle Apr 23, 2009 10:04:34	I don't think you can have an Ultimate Magus with two spontaneous casting classes. Or does it involve taking the Arcane Preparation feat? Nope; forgot about that.
#7 selaphiel Apr 23, 2009 10:38:07	Toss up between Warlock/theurge build or walker in the waste... I do enjoy both of those... Thanks for the input.
#8 dr_rocktopus Apr 23, 2009 11:20:32	WALKER! Because seriously, Walker in the Waste told you that you had aid. WitW is one of my all time favorite classes. Ask your GM if he feels the Dry Lich template actually hits you with the LA or not. That's always the deciding factor for me.
#9 the_shaman Apr 23, 2009 12:49:51	Didn't the Walker in the Waste require divine casting? I was under the impression Dread Necros are arcanists. Though that would qualify them for Sand Shaper, which is an interesting class in itself...
#10 dr_rocktopus Apr 23, 2009 13:32:21	I'd be perfectly comfortable rolling an arcane WitW with somewhat more restrictive entry, as a GM.
#11 jetstrike3000 Apr 23, 2009 13:35:34	I played a Dread Necro 8 / Pale Master 10 / Lich with buyoff
#12 selaphiel Apr 23, 2009 14:14:56	It seems much of the bonuses for being a pale master are rendered useless if you become undead... Much of it is stuff to grant you immunities...
#13 jetstrike3000 Apr 23, 2009 14:17:35	Yea it was a flavor build and i didnt get lichdom til after palemaster... Besides who cant use an infinite army of undead... Arcane Walker in the Waste FTW
#14 selaphiel Apr 23, 2009 14:31:25	I do like the power gained as a WitW, it may not fit with the feel of what I am going for, and there is not much desert in my dm's campaign, but I could always put my fortress in a desert to keep would-be adventurers out.
#15 dr_rocktopus Apr 23, 2009 14:35:19	The less desert there is, the more you need a walker in the wastes in your game to fix that problem.
#16 selaphiel Apr 23, 2009 14:50:32	Also, that whole zone of drought deal may have adverse affects on my non-desert themed undead. Or do undead not care?
#17 selaphiel Apr 23, 2009 14:51:48	I have always been one to burn the world... Since I am the only player in this campaign who knows most of the rules (comparatively of course to the other players in this game) I can be a bit stronger lol. Thanks for the idea of expanding the desert Dr Rocktopus.
#18 dr_rocktopus Apr 23, 2009 14:53:04	A man after my own heart. Superb.
#19 carnivore Apr 23, 2009 14:58:10	the main problem with Dry Lich...... Water.... make sure you are aware of its weaknesses before you jump in.... :D
#20 selaphiel Apr 23, 2009 15:10:35	Hehe, puns. How do you get around the whole divine casting of the domain spells (and how would I get the spells necessary? I know there is a feat to get domain spells, but is it the whole domain you get? Or just the single spell from the feat.
#21 selaphiel Apr 23, 2009 15:12:31	Also, DN 8/WitW 10/X 2 hmmm... Lets find the value of X...
#22 dr_rocktopus Apr 23, 2009 15:17:09	This is why you drop a sphere of annihilation into the sea, Carnivore.
#23 carnivore Apr 23, 2009 15:20:41	This is why you drop a sphere of annihilation into the sea, Carnivore. that would still take a Long time... not to mention attract the attention of very Powerful Creatures with a vested Interest in the Ocean :D
#24 selaphiel Apr 23, 2009 15:27:17	My dm likes having unexplained powerful beings keeping us in check. ><
#25 dr_rocktopus Apr 23, 2009 15:37:36	No it wouldn't. There's no speed associated with the consumptive effect of the sphere of annihilation. All that matters is the flow-rate of the ocean, which is basically arbitrarily high. You'd need to get it pretty deep, and it won't empty the seas in the three or four rounds it's down there.... but it's going to do some incredibly serious damage. Besides, the undirected ire of the supremely powerful creatures it would wake or alert or annoy is almost as good as emptying the seas. It's a sphere of annihilation, they're quite hard to destroy even for Big Players. You'd need to find out about it, find it, figure out what it is, get line of effect, and then use alter reality, probably. Say five rounds?
#26 carnivore Apr 23, 2009 15:46:35	No it wouldn't. There's no speed associated with the consumptive effect of the sphere of annihilation. All that matters is the flow-rate of the ocean, which is basically arbitrarily high. You'd need to get it pretty deep, and it won't empty the seas in the three or four rounds it's down there.... but it's going to do some incredibly serious damage. Besides, the undirected ire of the supremely powerful creatures it would wake or alert or annoy is almost as good as emptying the seas. It's a sphere of annihilation, they're quite hard to destroy even for Big Players. You'd need to find out about it, find it, figure out what it is, get line of effect, and then use alter reality, probably. Say five rounds? i would love to have you try it in one of my games .... you might be very surprised by the results Sphere of Annihilation is a very Dangerous item to Find .... and Use..... but relatively easy to Neutralize :D
#27 dr_rocktopus Apr 23, 2009 15:49:30	I'd never do that, Carnivore, and you know it full well. It's funny to talk about though. In any case, the kind of character who does that knows that he dies shortly there after. The original plot involving it was basically drop it over leviathan to wake him\her\it up and ruin everything for everyone.
#28 selaphiel Apr 23, 2009 20:43:16	Should I take 2 levels of DN after the prestige class? Or another prestige?
#29 sofawall Apr 23, 2009 21:05:18	I just realized what separates carnivore's posts from everyone else's! 1) The :D at the bottom 2) The randomly capitalized words 3) The awesome factor :D
#30 acereraklives Apr 23, 2009 22:31:15	that is Ridiculous there is just no way that carnivore's posts are Separate from everyone else just because he randomly Capitalizes words and adds in Awesome stuff like Pixies for +4 LA! :D
#31 sofawall Apr 23, 2009 22:50:08	See, that blended right in. All you need is the sig and the avatar! Oh, and the Draconic Aura of Awesome (Ex.)
#32 jameswilliamogle Apr 24, 2009 6:04:22	Should I take 2 levels of DN after the prestige class? Or another prestige? Either/or. I think Shadow Adept is worth it for a 2 level dip. If you go straight DN, you're looking to control tons of undead. Otherwise, you're looking to optimize debuffing.
#33 toryn Apr 24, 2009 15:00:30	You could also do something like: Dread Necro 8/ Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage10 Take Tomb Tainted Soul, 2 other divine feats, and Retrieve Spell from Complete Champion. You have a bit more versatility and staying power than a traditional necromancer. Sac your spells to Arcane Wrath, then sac your turn attempts to Retrieve Spell to do it all over again.
#34 jopustopin Apr 24, 2009 15:27:45	Go straight dread necro 20 baby. That's what I'm planning on doing. Prestige classes are for life lovers!
#35 selaphiel Apr 24, 2009 15:49:05	To Dr. Rocktopus, how do you get the specific spells from the domains to qualify for walker in the waste. I am looking at that and pale master.
#36 dr_rocktopus Apr 24, 2009 15:51:24	Most of them appear on other lists... Oh. Darn. I think someone else more cunning than me can help. Right now I'm feeling really ill.
#37 jameswilliamogle Apr 24, 2009 16:01:44	For WitW one needs the Southern Magician (SSouth) or Alternative Spell Source (Dragon Mag) feats, Arcane Disciple: Sand / Thirst. And a willing DM (the first two feats are iffy on weather the spell is actually divine or not). The Crusader idea is also a good one; I may have to look at how that'd stat out when I get home.
#38 selaphiel Apr 24, 2009 16:24:23	I just read the part about a dread necro only able to control 4+cha per Class level... I may go Dn 8/WitW 10/Dn 2 just to have (4+cha)X10+(4x10) or maybe just DN 20... That is an awful lot of undead... Assuming a charisma of 31 at level 20 (18+2 race, +5 levels, +6 item) that would be 180 Hd (it's early for me and I am away from books, I think it is 4+cha) of undead. With Dn 20 (4+10)x20=280 HD of undead... Without rods of undead mastery and what not. Check my math please. I feel brain dead atm so it may be wrong.
#39 jameswilliamogle Apr 24, 2009 16:31:01	Thats about right. It was something like about 600-800 HD of undead controlled w/ items at 20th. Quick question about it, though: do you really want that much paperwork in your game? If you like accounting, then the answer should be an emphatic "YES!" but otherwise consider keeping the numbers much lower.
#40 selaphiel Apr 24, 2009 17:04:59	I don't mind the paper work. The sheer amount of paper work should intimidate the dm. I was a summoner one time and had to keep track of all the monsters I would use on the fly since we didn't have the books with us at the time. That was a lot. Undead should be easier.
#41 selaphiel Apr 24, 2009 17:12:40	Would the legacy champion increase undead controlled the same as having levels of DN? It says increases all level dependent things, would the undead controlled be one? Or a class that increases like that.
#42 jameswilliamogle Apr 24, 2009 17:40:56	Yes, I think it would work. I don't think its worth it, though.
#43 dr_rocktopus Apr 24, 2009 17:42:42	Ask your GM how many salt mummies you get as a WitW. Because nothing says at all, and nothing provides an upper bound. Custserv has said everything from 1..n.
#44 toryn Apr 25, 2009 15:10:57	For WitW one needs the Southern Magician (SSouth) or Alternative Spell Source (Dragon Mag) feats, Arcane Disciple: Sand / Thirst. And a willing DM (the first two feats are iffy on weather the spell is actually divine or not). The Crusader idea is also a good one; I may have to look at how that'd stat out when I get home. Thanks. The idea hit me while reading your Binder handbook (great job by the way) lol. I first used it in a gladiator style pvp campaign, focusing on Devoted Spirit maneuvers with a smattering of White Raven to great success. It really throws people off when they see a DN in melee alongside of their undead bodyguard. :D
#45 streakster Apr 27, 2009 1:01:15	You could also do something like: Dread Necro 8/ Crusader 2/ Jade Phoenix Mage10 Take Tomb Tainted Soul, 2 other divine feats, and Retrieve Spell from Complete Champion. You have a bit more versatility and staying power than a traditional necromancer. Sac your spells to Arcane Wrath, then sac your turn attempts to Retrieve Spell to do it all over again. If you do this, you are required to raise an undead buddy, create a haunt shifted wagon, and steal some noble titles. Just some dead ole' boys, Never meanin' no harm Beats all you never saw, been in trouble with Pelor since the day they was raised Straightenin' the curves, Flattenin' the hills Someday the mountain might get 'em, but no paladin will...
#46 toryn Apr 29, 2009 19:58:14	LOL!!!