Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 19:07:25	I am a druid! I have special abilities that are more powerful than your entire class! This is the druid handbook, written by A Man In Black and Paradisio and currently maintained by A Man In Black. This version is a revival of a rewrite of Paradisio's rewrite of Yekoj's druid handbook. It's going up more or less piece by piece; until it's done, don't mind the mess. Suggestions (or even total rewrites of sections, if you want) are greatly appreciated, and more is always coming. (I swear I'll get to finishing and formatting the spell section one of these days.) Update status: This book sat unupdated after Five Nations and Champions of Ruin were released, so updates have been a matter of backfilling. Books I haven't incorporated: Show Champions of Valor Cityscape Complete Mage - Elemental companion? Complete Psionic Dragonmarked Either of the Fiendish Codex books Heroes of Battle (I have this) Heroes of Horror Magic of Eberron Monster Manual IV (what an awful book) Players' Handbook 2 (working on this one) Races of the Dragon Stormwrack Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords Unearthed Arcana (I really need to mention more of the stuff from this) Weapons of Legacy Pretty much any other Realms book after Champions of Ruin Any advice on useful stuff from these books (or generous donations to the Poor Gamers' Fund) would be appreciated.
#2 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 19:08:12	WILD SHAPE: Just remember... Druids are competent spellcasters, but a large amount of their power comes from Wild Shape, which gives them attack power, mobility, and durability. Even after the Polymorph errata, Wild Shape-using druids are still fearsome melee combatants, able to stand on the front line of the party. Before everything else, read Haterkaze's advice on how to play a shapechanging character. While the bulk of the guide is for characters using Master of Many Form, the advice on talking to your GM and working with the party is very sound. You may note the lack of an Elemental Wild Shape section. Elemental Wild Shape used to be useless, as animals and plants offer more-capable combat forms and utility forms. (Gharlane did an excellent benchmark test of Elemental versus animal forms, available here.) However, you now get the Elemental type traits (albeit not the Elemental type) when you use Elemental Wild Shape. This means you get Darkvision 60' and lots of sweet immunities. This will be better incorporated into the guide at some point. More Wild Shaping strategy advice will be coming, but in the meantime... Once you have enough uses of Wild Shape and a long enough duration to stay in an animal form all the time, do so whenever possible. If communication is a problem, look for telepathic alternatives. Rary's Telepathic Bond, Lesser Telepathic Bond (XPH), and the Mindlink psionic power (XPH) can both solve the problem of your inability to speak. This, of course, goes doubly for Buommans. The authors' favorite forms are in bold. These are the forms you're going to want to trade up to. In general, a plant form is better than an animal form when all other things are equal, because of the pile of immunities that come with plant form. Wild Shapes come in a lot of forms, but generally fall into one (or more) of a handful of different roles. These roles include... Grappler: A specialty of the various varieties of bear and squid, and one of the most powerful Wild Shape strategies, as it maximizes your strengths (high Str, large size) while minimizing your weaknesses (generally poor AC). These forms are generally some of your best pure combat forms, whether or not you decide to actually grapple. All of these forms have Improved Grab, and most of them have high strength, large size, and/or Abilities like Constrict and Swallow Whole. Swallow Whole is a double-edged sword: yes, you're damaging the victim and keeping it from harming your friends or casting spells, but it can attack your very, very low gullet AC and do nasty damage. (If you get a chance to Swallow something with no light slashing/piercing weapon or natural attacks, go for it.) And never, ever, ever eat anything immune to acid. (Grapple checks, where noted below, don't include BAB. Just add your BAB to the grapple number listed below to get your grapple check total when in that form.) Level 5 Crocodile - Grapple check: +4 - The grappler form of choice if Fleshraker is out of the question. Hard-hitting enough to be useful even outside of a grapple. Fleshraker Dinosaur (MM3) - Grapple check: +3 - An absolutely OMG form, if it's allowed. Fleshrakers can charge, pounce, trip, pin, and poison, all in one round, and also has great AC to boot. You're going to see this role a lot in the other lists, and it remains awesome whenever you have to charge something, especially if it's medium-sized or smaller. Level 8 Brown/Polar Bear - Grapple check: +12 - The quintessential grappler form, with strong attacks, fair AC, and a great grapple check. The bears are versatile enough to fight a crowd, then grab a tough foe and tear it apart in a grapple. (Choose Polar if you want to min-max every tiny bit; the two are identical with regard to Wild Shape save for the Polar Bear's swim speed.) Dire Lion - Grapple check: +11 - If the Fleshraker isn't available, this is an interesting compromise between first-strike charger forms and slugger grappler forms like the Polar Bear. It isn't as hard-hitting as most traditional grappler forms, though. Level 9 Cave Tyrannosaurus (MiniHB) - Grapple check: +11 - Not quite as hardhitting as Polar Bear, but this is your first form with Swallow Whole (which only works on Small or smaller foes, mind). Smilodon (Sabre-Toothed Tiger) (Frost) - Grapple check: +11 - A marginal improvement on Dire Lion: x3 critical on bite, best attack is primary, claw attacks can start grapple. Level 12 Dire Bear - Grapple check: +14 - Like the Polar Bear, only moreso. Warhound Impaler (Lesser Battlebriar) (MM3) - Grapple check: +10 - This isn't the hardest-hitting or strongest grappler, but it can impale (Medium-sized or smaller) grappled foes on its thorns with a free-action grapple check, rendering them helpless. Not pinned, not grappled, but helpless. Plus, it has an AOE attack and tramples! Plant. Level 15 Giant Banded Lizard (Sand) - Grapple check: +17 - Comparable to the Dire Bear in damage output, but has better grapple check and poisoned claws. It has terrible AC, though. Ironmaw (FF) - Grapple check: +N/A - This isn't strictly a grappler, but it fights like one. Ironmaws have six tendrils with ridiculous reach, and a tendril hit can attach to a foe, pulling them within reach of the Ironmaw's so-so bite or OMG Engulf ability, which does fair damage and suffocates. Tendril hits also cause bleeding and Con damage. Did I mention the Ironmaw has great AC? The only drawback is the exceedingly low speed, which keeps you from staying in Ironmaw form all day. Plant. Octopus Tree (FF) - Grapple check: +18 - Eight(!) Improved Grab attacks, Swallow Whole, great damage, and frightful presence. A top-tier grappler form. Too slow on land to spend all your time in this form outside of an aquatic campaign, and it isn't clear if it breathes water or air. Plant. Tendriculos - Grapple check: +17 - The ultimate Swallower. Anything that can't make the DC 20 Fort save before cutting its way out will die. Plant. Level 18 Dire Polar Bear (Frost) - Grapple check: +23 - The ultimate grappler form. Tyrannosaurus Dinosaur - Grapple check: +17 - The core-only alternative to the Dire Polar Bear or Giant Banded Lizard. Isn't as tough or hard-hitting, but it's a heck of a lot more stylish, and it does have Swallow Whole. Charger: Bipedal dinosaurs and big cats specialize in charging into battle and dealing as much damage as possible as fast as possible. The best forms usually have pounce and rakes, but a few forms with a single powerful natural attack and the powerful charge ability are also worth using. Not many charger forms are bolded as recommended; this is mostly because charger forms are a matter of taste. Big cats dabble in grappling and can only bring their rakes to bear when charging or grappling, bipedal pouncer dinosaurs hit slightly harder and don't grapple, triceratopses have the Triceratops Shuffle, and rhinos have one powerful gore that does double damage on a charge. If you use big cats and bipedal dinosaurs often enough, you may want Multiattack, and if you use horned chargers often enough, you may want Power Attack. Level 5 Deinonychus Dinosaur (MM errata) - Nothing can compare to Fleshraker, but this is fine in a fight on its own merits. Fleshraker Dinosaur (MM3) - An absolutely OMG charger form. Charge and you can pounce, trip, pin, and poison (and the poison is Dex poison, diminishing a foe's ability to use Escape Artist to escape). If it's available, use it! Leopard - The core-only and no-dinosaurs alternative to the Fleshraker and Deinonychus. Not a dynamo, but decent in its own way. Protoceratops Dinosaur (Sand) - A fairly decent rhino-style charger. A bit tougher and harder-hitting than Deinonychus, but not as good when it comes to stand toe-to-toe, and definitely not as good as the Fleshraker. Level 8 Cave Triceratops (MiniHB) - The first form where you can try the Triceratops Shuffle. Charge a foe (doing double damage because of Powerful Charge), then Trample that foe and move away as part of the Trample move. Then charge again, and repeat. This isn't the best charger or trampler, but the combination is killer. Dire Lion - The benchmark charger form, with Improved Grab on the side. Pounce on an enemy, grapple, and tear them apart. (Then again, though, if you think you can win the grapple easily, Fleshraker might still be a better choice.) Megaraptor Dinosaur (MM errata) - This is harder-hitting than Dire Lion and doesn't rely on Rakes to deal damage (and is thus better in a toe-to-toe fight), but it doesn't grapple. Use it for charging and fighting foes you couldn't grapple anyway. Rhinoceros - WHAM. One big nasty hit, especially when charging but even in a toe-to-toe fight. Level 9 Smilodon (Sabre-Toothed Tiger) (Frost) - This is a marginal improvement on the Dire Lion. It has x3 critical on its bite, its best attack is primary, and its claw attacks can start a grapple). That said, you're unlikely to notice the difference between the two in practice. Level 16 Dire Tiger - An incremental improvement on Smilodon and Dire Lion, and good for the same reasons. Triceratops Dinosaur - The real deal when it comes to the Triceratops Shuffle. Charge, trample and move away, charge, trample and move away, repeat until dead. If you've got Power Attack, you're going to want to use it. Trampler A specialty of elephants, herbivorous dinosaurs, and Treants. Most tramplers are Large- or Huge-sized, and have a high-damage attack or two. Trampling is great for taking out mooks (including swarms!), but most of the tramplers can also do a decent job of slugging it out with individual larger enemies. When buffing, remember that increased Strength ups the save DC for your trample as well as your damage. Level 8 Cave Anklyosaurus (MiniHB) - Large, 3d6+7, DC 18 - Awesome AC and its single attack is still quite effective, when trampling isn't practical. Cave Triceratops (MiniHB) - Large, 3d6+6, DC 18 - As mentioned above, this is the first form where you can try the Triceratops Shuffle. Charge a foe (doing double damage because of Powerful Charge), then Trample that foe and move away as part of the Trample move. Then charge again, and repeat. This isn't the best charger or trampler, but the combination is killer. Level 9 Diprotodon Dinosaur (Sand) - Large, 2d6+12, DC 22 - It tramples, doing a better job than the Cave Dinosaurs. Other than that, it's fairly unremarkable, besides the pathetically low AC. Level 12 Warhound Impaler (Lesser Battlebriar) (MM3) - Large, d8+9, DC 22 - Besides rendering grappled foes helpless and blasting everyone nearby with an AOE attack, it also tramples. Not well, but it tramples. Plant. Level 15 Dire Tortoise (Sand) - Huge, 4d8+12, DC 25 - Respectable trample damage, great AC, and it always gets a surprise round. An OMG form. Elephant - Huge, 2d8+15, DC 25 - The first core trampler you'll get access to, but it's inferior to the non-core alteratives. Grizzly Mastodon (MM2) - Huge, 4d8+18, DC 29 - A massively hard-hitting trampler, either in a trample or a melee. It isn't as tough as the Dire Tortoise, though. Saguaro Sentinel (Sand) - Huge, 3d6+16, DC 27 - A compromise between Grizzly Mastodon (it's almost as strong) and Dire Tortoise (it's almost as tough). It doesn't trample as well as either, though. As a nice little bonus, though, it talks. Plant. Level 16 Triceratops Dinosaur - Huge, 2d12+15, DC 28 - Not quite the trampler the Grizzly Mastodon is, but it can do the Triceratops Shuffle. Defensive - I need to hit my books, because this section is out of date. Now, I need to check for high AC without worrying about Con. Sometimes you just need to avoid or shrug off attacks. Maybe you're focusing on spellcasting, or maybe you just want to get away. These forms have high AC, sometimes paired with defensive abilities (which will need to technically be "Special Attacks", due to the limitations of Wild Shape). Note that this list doesn't include any non-core choices without AC of 20 or better or Con of 22 or better. (This means that there are few core defensive forms.) Exceptions are made for forms with exceptional special abilities. Level 5 Desmodu Hunting Bat - AC 20, Con 13 - Your starter defensive form, with AC 20 and touch AC of 17. Doesn't hurt at all that it flies. Level 8 Dire Bat - AC 20, Con 17 - This will be pretty much your only core defensive form for most of your career, if you don't have any access to non-core choices. AC 20, with touch AC 15, goes a long way. Level 12 Ironthorn (Sand) - AC 24 - A massively tough form, and has ridiculously high-DC paralytic poison (along with decent reach and some mediocre grappling ability). Too slow to stay in this form all the time, though. Plant. Legendary Eagle (MM2) - AC 25, Con 17 - A very evasive form, with a ridiculous touch AC of 21. Doesn't hurt at all that it's a fast flier. Treant - AC 20, Con 21 - Plant immunities, decent AC, and fairly good Con, rounded out with decent attacks and okay trample. It's not great at one thing and there are non-core forms that eclipse it, but it's a versatile mid-level form. Plus, it talks! Plant. Level 14 Legendary Wolf (MM2) - AC 24, Con 27 - A well-rounded defensive form, but not strong or large enough to be an impressive tripper or even much of a melee combatant. Level 15 Dire Tortoise (Sand) - AC 25 - The Dire Tortoise is one of the toughest forms in the game, and it's nearly impossible to ambush to boot. Saguaro Sentinel (Sand) - AC 22 - Plant immunities and great AC, paired with strong attacks and usably-strong trample. It hits, it takes hits, and it even talks. Plant. Aerial: Besides the obvious long-distance travel and scouting uses, druids who favor using their spells for offense will spend most of their time in aerial forms, not just because of the maneuverability but because of the high Dex for touch attacks, AC, and initiative checks. (Contrast this with grappling forms, where combat spellcasting is usually confined to buffs before or at the beginning of a fight.) Generally, they aren't as good in melee as the land- or water-bound alternatives, but maneuverability does come at a price. Level 5 Desmodu Hunting Bat (MM2) - Speed 60 ft. (good) - Very good Dex and AC, and an odd wolf-like trip attack. Dire Hawk (RotW) - Speed 80 ft. (average) - Faster than Desmodu Hunting Bat, but has slightly lower Dex and AC, and isn't as hard-hitting. Eagle - Speed 80 ft. (average) - The best core-only flier at this level, but has mediocre AC and Dex, and abysmal attacks. Level 8 Desmodu Guard Bat (MM2) - Speed 60 ft. (good) - Exactly like Dire Bat, only faster. A balanced flier form. Dire Bat - Speed 40 ft. (good) - A typical aerial form, with good AC, good Dex, and a single, mediocre attack. Inferior to the non-core options. Dire Eagle (RoS) - Speed 60 ft. (average) - Very strong for a flier, able to attack somewhat effectively or carry a party member or two. Compared to the other fliers, its AC and Dex aren't very good, but they're passable. Dire Vulture (Sand) - Speed 80 ft. (average) - Inferior to the other choices for fliers, but not egregiously so, and it's handy if you need to fly and need a monstrously high fort save for some reason. Plus, its Stench ability can disable low-Fort enemies. Level 12 Desmodu War Bat (MM2) - Speed 40 ft. (good) - A fairly hard-hitting attacker, large enough to carry party members. Only slightly less evasive than Legendary Eagle, but physically much stronger. Legendary Eagle (MM2) - Speed 100 ft. (average) - Renders obsolete all the previous flying forms. Massive Dex means great AC and initiative checks. Level 15 Dragonhawk (5N) - Speed 120 ft. (average) - A hard-hitting and fast flying form, large enough to carry your allies. Not as agile as Legendary Eagle, though. It has Blindsense you can pick up with Enhance Wild Shape, as well. Aquatic: Sometimes, you're going to have to spend some time in the water. These forms have swim speeds, and, unless noted otherwise, can breathe water indefinitely. Level 5 Crocodile - Grappler (Grap +??) form. Same as the reasons above. Doesn't breathe water. Squid - Grappler (Grap +??) form. Not as strong as crocodile, but has more attacks and breathes water. Medium Shark - Utility form. Fast swimmer, decent biter. Level 8 Polar Bear - Grappler (Grap +??) form. Same as the reasons above. Doesn't breathe water. Giant Octopus - Grappler (Grap +??) form. Not as strong as polar bear, but has vastly many more attacks, Constrict, and water breathing. Large Shark - Utility form. Speedy swimmer, but not terribly handy in a fight compared to the alternatives. Level 15 Giant Squid - Grappler (Grap +??) form. Hard-hitting and awesome in a grapple. One of the best aquatic forms period. Octopus Tree (FF) - Grappler (Grap +??)/utility form. Eight Improved Grab attacks, Swallow Whole, great damage, decent swim speed, and frightful presence. Still need to compare this to Giant Squid. Level 18 Dire Polar Bear (Frost) - Grappler (Grap +??) form. Like the Polar Bear, only moreso. Doesn't breathe water. Spy: Sometimes you need to sneak in, all subtle-like. These forms will help you do that; nobody will ever be suspicious of a horse. Level 5 - Dog, Riding Dog, Donkey, and Pony Level 8 - Mule and Heavy Warhorse Level 11 - Tiny Viper (use Venomfire (Serp) and it's the perfect assassination form), Cat, Rat, Hawk, and Raven Level 18 - Legendary Horse (MM2) - One of the very few spy forms with some combat ability. Tool-User Medium-sized, more-or-less-human-shaped forms which can use your equipment normally instead of having it meld into your Wild Shape form. This is a hideously powerful strategy at high levels, but you need to drop all your stuff and pick it up again, meaning you'll need a long Wild Shape duration as well as time to prepare. (Many GMs will house-rule this controversial rule; see more below in the Controversial Options section.) Level 5 Baboon - Str 15 Dex 14 AC 13 - It probably has better stats than your physical stats, and it has natural armor and a bite attack. All in all, not too bad. Level 12 Vine Horror (FF) - Str 18 Dex 10 AC 18 - Inferior to Legendary Ape (except in that it can talk), but Vine Horrors are naturally intelligent and tool-using, so a strict GM may be more lenient. (Plus, spiffy plant-type immunities.) Useless at this level except as a tool-user. Plant. Level 13 Legendary Ape (MM2) - Str 30 Dex 17 AC 19 - Massively strong and surprisingly tough, and has a full set of powerful natural attacks to go with any weapons you might have. It's still useful without the item-melding rule, because of high Str, powerful attacks, and rend. Utility Everything else. They may have useful or unusual in- or out-of-combat abilities, or otherwise deserve special mention. Level 5 Swindlespitter Dinosaur (MM3) - AOE blinding poison attack (combine it with Venomfire from Serpent Kingdoms!), and may double as a spy form in certain areas. (MM3 says some cultures consider Swindlespitters to be sacred.) Level 8 Dire Wolf - Has the strength and size to actually use trip ability, in those situations where tripping is possible but grappling isn't feasible. AC is fairly low, however. Valenar Riding Horse (EbCS) - Long distance travel form, with its 80 ft. land speed. Plus, you can carry a party member. Level 12 Ironthorn (Sand) - This tough form has a paralytic posion with an insanely high DC for the level. Use it to paralyze your foes. Myconid Sovereign (MM2) - The Sovereign has a range of spell-likes that aren't really spell-likes. Handy ones you can use include telepathy spores, animate dead spores, and pacifying spores. Warhound Impaler (Lesser Battlebriar) (MM3) - It grapples foes and makes them completely helpless. It has an AOE attack with decent damage. It tramples. It's just a handy, versatile form. Level 15 Dire Tortoise (Sand) - The perfect form for while you're on guard duty. Yeah, other forms may get boosts to Spot, Listen, or Hide, but how many forms guarantee that you can't be ambushed? Always acting in the surprise round (even if you don't surprise your foes at all!) is a great ability. Grizzly Mastodon (MM2) - At Str 35, this is almost the strongest Wild Shape form there is. Use it when Walls of Stone need to be pushed over, or you need to win a tug of war against the entire clan of orcs on your own. Treant - Besides being a versatile combatant, Treants do double damage against objects. When you need to sunder an Unholy sword or break down a door, the Treant is the form for the job. Yellow Musk Creeper (FF) - The Yellow Musk Creeper's Mind Puff ability makes enemies helpless at range. Plus, you can eat your opponent's brain, and then as long as you stay in that form, they will serve you until they die in two months. Level 18 Dire Polar Bear (Frost) - Besides being a great grappler, at Str 39 this is the single strongest Wild Shape form you can get. (Can anyone find any that are stronger?) Use it when you need to lift a house off its foundations or break through an adamantine door. Vermin: A druid with the Vermin Wild Shape feat (EbCS), the 10th level wasteland druid substitution level (Sand), or Vestments of Verminshape (DMG2) can use Wild Shape to take the form of Vermin creatures. More to come... Aberration: If you take Aberration Wild Shape (LoM), you can use Wild Shape to turn into aberrations, subject to the other usual limitations of Wild Shape. This is another section still in development. As such, take the advice with a grain of salt. Any suggestions would be appreciated. In the meantime, here's some advice on Aberration Wild Shape. Generally, you can find more attacks with abberations than with animal forms, but usually at a lower Str. Many creatures with these attacks will have poison, grab, or both with them. Obviously, these forms get the most milage out of Greater Magic Fang, as usually 4+ of the attacks are with the same type of natural weapon. As was said above, having access to assume supernatural form makes abberation wildshaping stupidly good (a prime target for this feat would be the Beholder's Eye Ray ability, which nets all 10 rays for use). Another benefit of abberation wildshaping is the humanoid form many take, which makes using equipment much easier, and often will allow for speech. And from the above list, some of my favorites are the cloaker for casting early on (if you don't want to waste a spell, fly up and moan), the rukanyr for it's multiple attacks and stun/poison, the darktentacles for it's insane grapple, and the lifeleech otyugh for it's grab and high stats. Level 5 Rust Monster - Useful for sabotage, removing metal walls, etc. Tako (OA) - Seven arms for weapons or Improved Grab/Constrict, aquatic, Multidexterity bonus feat. Level 8 Cloaker - Area-effect moan, and goofy Engulf ability. Ineffable Horror (Und) - Flight, grapple and blood drain. Rukanyr (FF) - High AC at 7hd, one stunning attack, 3 poisoning attacks, 6 other claw attacks Mimic - adhesive (auto-grapple, can trap weapons) Level 9 Stonesinger (MM3) - High nat armour, burrow+climb speed, poison bite+6 claws, decent Str Lifeleech Otyugh (MM3) - 4 tentacles+bite, imp grab+Constrict, high Str Level 10 Hook Horror (MM2) - Imp Grab, power sunder, decent stats, climb speed Level 11 Chuul - An alternative to Dire Bear. Lower grapple check and less damage in straight attacks because of lower Str, but its Constrict does comparable damage in a grapple, it can paralyze grappled foes, and it has better AC. Level 12 Death Kiss Beholderkin (MonOF) - 10(!) tentacle attacks, each doing Con damage Urophion (LoM) - 50' range melee touch attack that does strength damage and lets you drag the victim in to eat his brain. One of the best aberration forms. Ocularon (FF) - Large 12HD, 90' fly speed (perfect) decent ac (21), imp grab w/ 4 tentacles, steal eyes and gain poison attack with those eyes Darktentacles (MM2) - 12 attacks (up to 3 at a single square), can use weapons at lowered penalties, decent stats, imp grab w/ +16 racial bonus Level 15 Athach - Human-shaped form, with high stats and a poison bite. Deepspawn (PGtF) - Three "hands," great reach, good stats, lots of natural attacks, Improved Grab/Constrict Delver - High AC and an acid attack that is exceedingly effective against metallic or stony foes. Level 18 Nagahydra (Serp) - seven bites with potent poison, massive stats Moonbeast (MM2) - 10(!) powerful attacks, plus Constrict AND bite on a grapple Level 20 Chilblain (Frost) - A flier that deals respectable damage and has massive AC. Maulgoth (FF) - Send enemies (or allies) to ethereal plane with a touch.
#3 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 19:08:44	SPELLS: All druids are full casters - don't forget this fact. Because of their ability to cast Summon Nature's Ally spontaneously, Druids, like Clerics, are in a great position to prepping very powerful, very situational spells. No harm will come of prepping Sheltered Vitality, for example; if you don't run into any ability damage or death magic, you can just turn it into a SNA IV. Likewise, don't prep Summon Nature's Ally spells (unless you want metamagicked SNAs; you can just cast them spontaneously. Note that many spells that were once Druid staples were nerfed in Spell Compendium. If a spell has multiple books listed, the Spell Compendium version is generally both the weakest and most current, and if a former druidic staple is missing, it may have been nerfed into uselessness in Spell Compendium. Spell chains: The Vigor chain (CD/Spell) vastly outperform the equivalent Cure spells as far as total healing goes, but is considerably less useful in combat because of the long-duration, slow-healing nature of the spells. It may be useful to prepare a Cure Light Wounds or a Bear's Endurance or two for emergencies, but make it clear to party members that your resources are best used for out-of-combat healing (usually Vigor or Vigorous Circle from a wand) and not in-combat healing (because of the greater spell level of druidic Cure spells), and that they will need to handle their own emergency in-combat healing (from potions and such). This will head off many potential misunderstandings and hurt feelings. The Bite of the (foo) series, from Spell Compendium, are your new in-combat buff staples, since the Polymorph errata prevents you from using the Nature's chain of spells as self-buffs. If you're planning to throw up a quick in-combat buff while Wild Shaped, these are often your best bet, due to the variety and degree of bonuses they offer. Any advice on staple druid spells would be much appreciated. Recommended spells 0 Level: Create Water - Never run out of water. Plus, you can make a scrying pool. Cure Minor Wounds - One point isn't a lot, but this can stabilize a dying ally. Detect Magic - One of the most powerful and versatile zero-level spells, for any caster. Guidance - Tell your Rogue to ask for "guidance" prior to every trap he attempts to disarms or UMD roll he has to make (outside of combat). That +1 bonus can be critical. Light - Remember, you lose darkvision when you Wild Shape, even if your chosen form has it. (Obviously, this doesn't apply to situations where you're getting Ex special qualities of your form, as with Exalted or Dragon Wild Shape.) 1st Level: Aspect of the Wolf (Spell) - This is a fairly handy melee self-buff for early levels (instead of going the wooden club route with Shillelagh). At later levels, you can share it with your Animal Companion to help deal with the practical issues of traveling with a snarling bear the size of a bull elephant. Babau Slime (Spell) - Great for grappling druids, and a general-purpose damage buff for any Wild Shaping druid. Camouflage (CD/Spell) - +10 to Hide, and it works in any environment. Endure Elements - A great travelling spell, and especially handy in any game that takes you into harsh environments. Entangle - A best-in-class battlefield control spell. Eyes of the Avoral (BoED) - Long duration, big Spot bonus. Faerie Fire - Good for dealing with invisible foes. Lessor Vigor (CD/Spell) - This spell actually outperforms Cure Light Wounds, especially out of combat. Wands of Lesser Vigor are great for healing between fights. Magic Fang (PHB) and Silvered Claws (BoED) - Decent buff to help your Animal Companion bypass DR. Not very good for anything else. Obscuring Mist - The next best thing to invisibility, when it comes time to get out of a fight. Cast Mist, walk 5 feet backwards, and run away in a different direction. Omen of Peril (RoD/CD/Spell) - Poor man's Augury. Quite possibly the most versatile first-level divination in the game, and doesn't even have a costly component or XP cost, like many similar divinations. Produce Flame - Fairly powerful attack spell. You'll probably be relying on this to attack until you get Wild Shape, and makes a decent buff (due to the way holding touch spells works) after you get Wild Shape. Rot of Ages (DMagic) - lol no sneak attack 4 u. Too bad about the short duration, though. Shillelagh - It's pronounced "shi-lay-lee." Dramatically increases club/quarterstaff damage (to the point where you'll actually want to wield a club or quarterstaff), and stacks with Spikes and Brambles. Decreases in usefulness after you get Spikes, until you're high enough level to Quicken it. Spider Hand (BoVD) - Best. Scouting. Spell. Ever. Send out a nondescript spider to do all the scouting, with only negligible consequences if it dies? Yeah, I'll take that. It's not even an evil spell. Twilight Luck (BoED) - +1 on saves is always handy, especially at higher levels. Just lay off the booze. Wood Wose (CD/Spell) - Unseen Servant, only druidic. It just can't handle doorknobs. 2nd Level: Align Fang (Spell) - Handy for DR problems. It's a third-level spell in MiniHB. Animalistic Power (PHB2) - Versatility over the animal stat buffs, traded for half the power. It's a style thing; either way is good. Barkskin - Excellent for use while Wild Shaped, since your AC will often be pretty poor. Bear's Endurance and Bull's Strength - As useful as it is for everyone. Bear's Endurance will be your main in-combat healing spell for low levels; just keep people alive until you can use Vigor. Bite of the Wererat (Spell) - A variety of handy stat buffs, plus an additional bite attack for forms that don't have a natural bite. Blinding Spittle (PGtF/Spell) - Absolutely broken. Blindness with no save, with a ranged touch attack at -4. Why do they keep reprinting this spell? Blood Snow (Frost) - Only prep it during the winter or when in an arctic or otherwise frozen area, but d2 Con damage/round is awesome. Brambles (CD/Spell) - Excellent weapon buff, especially coupled with Shillelagh. Creeping Cold (CD/Spell) - A great attack spell, and replaces Produce Flame. If you can get away with it, Extend it. Dessicate (Sand) - d6/level (max 5d6) on a single target, with a weird damage type that ignores DR and energy resistance. Can even cause dehydration (which is fatigue on steroids). Embrace the Wild (CAdv/Spell) and Listening Lorecall (CAdv/Spell) - Hopelessly nerfed in Spell Compendium. Unless you really, really need Scent for something, Blindsight is just plain better, save for duration. Embrace the Wild is generally better because of the skill boosts, until you have 12 ranks in Listen, when Listening Lorecall's Blindsight kicks in. Either way, Blindsight is worth it, despite the higher spell level. Gust of Wind - Very underrated utility spell. Clears fogs, blows away small foes, extinguishes torches, and disperses swarms. Halo of Sand (Sand) - Yet another druid AC buff. This one is deflection, though, so it stacks with Barkskin and armor. Kelpstrand (Spell) - I like to think of this spell as webshooters. This spell is excellent for tying down not-particularly-strong foes, and remember that you can throw multiple strands on one target. The low grapple DC and the slow scaling for multiple strands means that this spell goes stale quickly, however. Lesser Restoration - Very handy for healing ability damage. Luminous Armor (BoED) - An AC boost while you're Wild Shaping, plus light and another -4 for enemies to hit you in melee. Stacks with Barkskin, but not Wilding armor. Mind the Str damage, though. Master Air (Spell) - Self-only flight, with short duration. Still handy, though. Nature's Favor (CAdv/Spell) - Excellent (swift!) animal buff spell; cast it on your Animal Companion or summons. Technically better than Greater Magic Fang, but has a shorter duration and doesn't bypass DR. The Complete Divine version is even stronger, but the spell was nerfed in Complete Adventurer. Resist Energy - Fairly handy when you know a certain type of energy damage is in the offing. Share Husk (Spell) - A great scouting spell. Use it if Spider Hand isn't available. Snake's Swiftness, Mass (Spell) - The lower-level, single-target version of this spell isn't anything special, but giving a free attack to all of your party members, plus your animal companion, plus any summons you have nearby is just too fun. 3rd Level: Alter Fortune (PHB2) - Fantastic spell. Great for emergencies (reroll a save!) Arctic Haze (Frost) and Haboob (Sand) - Damaging and opaque fog. Useful as battlefield control. Tremor (Spell) can be used similarly, but it doesn't damage and doesn't block line of sight. Attune Form (Spell) - Immunity from planar effects for caster level/3 characters. A handy spell for high levels, and much more useful than the lower-level Avoid Planar Effects (Spell) due to the longer duration. Bite of the Werewolf (Spell) - Again, a variety of nifty stat buffs and a spare bite attack. Blindsight (Sav/Und/PGtF/Spell) - 30' Blindsight. Who needs See Invisibility? Call Lightning - Good damage, and gives you plenty of turns of attacks. The attack spell you'll be using when you get 3rd-level spells. Crumble (Spell) - Think of this as druidic Knock. Lots of things won't stand up to a casting of this spell. Cure Moderate Wounds - Should be self-explanatory. Entanging Staff (CAdv/Spell) - Free action grapples with a +8 bonus. Great for when you're out of Wild Shape for some reason or if you're using a Spikes-enspelled staff as a Legendary Ape. Forestfold (CAdv/Spell) - +10 on Hide and Move Silently checks in a natural environment of your choice. Giant's Wrath (Spell) - An interesting alternative to Call Lightning. At early levels, the lack of a need for an attack roll, the lack of DR issues, and the greater number of uses per cast makes Call Lightning the better choice. At higher levels, though, the high strength of Wild Shape forms, the caster-level based damage bonus, and the lack of SR on Giant's Wrath helps it catch up. Greater Magic Fang - Handy self-buff and good to share with your Animal Companion. Poison - Con damage is always handy, and the DC scales upward as you increase in level. A much-overlooked spell. Primal Form (Spell) - This spell isn't overwhelmingly powerful, but it's a versatile self-buff. Flight and swim speed are easy to get with Wild Shape, but this spell is available before plentiful Wild Shape uses, and you can choose on the fly among a melee buff, a defensive buff, or a source of flight. Protection From Energy - A versatile, effective defensive buff. You'll rarely regret prepping it. Remove Disease - Not something you're going to prep every day, but handy when you need it. Sleet Storm - Handy battlefield control. Great for covering an escape. Not as good as Arctic Fog or Haboob, though. Spiderskin (Und/Spell) - Barkskin, plus a save bonus against poison and a Hide bonus. Use it on the party sneak, or when you're fighting monstrous vermin or Yuan-Ti. Spikes (CD/Spell) - Improved Brambles. Higher attack, better threat level; what's not to like? Spritjaws (Spell) - I love this spell, and it's one of a druid's few good force spells. Throw this spell out there and it's a combination of Spiritual Weapon and Telekinetic Grapple. It damages and confounds enemies, doing an especially good job of pinning down spellcasters and incorporeal foes. Stone Shape - Good for making your own entrance or exit. Great for throwing the GM a loop in a dungeon crawl. Swift Lion's Charge (MiniHB) / Lion's Charge (Spell) - Pouncing is very handy, but this spell can start to eat up spell slots pretty quickly. A similar, overpowered spell named Lion's Charge is in Savage Species, and, while it isn't swift, it gives the Pounce ability for a duration. Touch of Jubilex (BoVD) - Evil. A great early save-or-die. Whatever it is, in four turns, it'll be dead. Not something you can safely use repeatedly, though, because of the Corruption cost. Venomfire (Serp) - Ridiculously broken spell at high levels. For level/hours, +d6/level damage with no cap added as an additional effect to a poisonous natural attack. Great for Fleshraker Wild Shape, or a poisonous breath weapon or AoE effect. This is such a great spell that it gets its own thread. Vigor and Mass Lesser Vigor (CD/Spell) - Both can be better than Cure Moderate Wounds at low levels, but only outside of combat. It works when you can't summon Unicorns yet and you don't have that handy wand of Cure Light Wounds. Doesn't work with Extend Spell (see CD FAQ), but Mass Lesser Vigor does work with Persistent Spell. Wind Wall - Another highly underrated spell, this stops archers, swarms, and foes size Tiny or smaller cold. 4th Level: Arc of Lightning (CA/Spell) - A decent no-SR spell, with damage competitive with that of a wizard or psion. It's a conjuration spell, so, that Spell Focus: Conjuration feat you had to pick for Augment Summoning might be useful. Aspect of the Werebeast (RoE) - Nothing about this Shifter-only self-buff says it only works when you're in a humanoid form. Add +4 to two different attributes, and add Improved Grab, Pounce, or wolf-like Trip to whatever form you're in. Bite of the Wereboar (Spell) - Useful stat buffs, a spare bite attack, and one of the better AC buffs around. Blast of Sand (Sand) - Cone of Cold lite (cone, d6/level, max 10d6), only without the energy type. No SR! Boreal Wind (Frost) - Does decent cold damage, has a fairly big AoE, blows enemies away, disperses fogs and swarms, and keeps going for multiple turns without concentration. Compares favorably even to Flame Strike. Claws of the Savage (BoVD) - Got claws? This gives you a +2 enhancement bonus on them, and also gives increases your claw damage as if you were two sizes larger. It is an Evil-typed spell, though. Enhance Wild Shape (Spell) - You can pick up plant forms early or get minor stat buffs, but the big bonus is the access to extraordinary abilities. Pick up the Blindsight of a Desmodu War Bat (MM2), or abuse Master of Many Forms (CAdv). Flame Strike - Excellent damage and an AoE. Should replace Call Lightning as your attack spell of choice. Freedom of Movement - Makes you immune to grapples, able to fight underwater, and immune to spells that impede movement. A very handy defensive spell. Giant Vermin - Ridiculously powerful at high levels: at level 20 you can make a 40 HD monster. Greater Luminous Armor (BoED) - As Luminous Armor, only +8 AC instead of +5. Again, mind the Sacrifice cost. Hibernal Healing (Frost) - Self-only Heal...as long as you're in a frostfell area, anyway. Last Breath (CD/Spell) - In Complete Divine, this is druidic Revivify, but with a caster-damaging side effect. In Spell Compendium, this is a no-level-loss Reincarnate that must be cast immediately. Both are useful as an emergency option. Passage of the Shifting Sands (DMagic) - Druidic Gaseous Form, but with an actual move speed, the ability to blind people, and other bennies. Scrying - The gold standard in sneaky divinations. Sheltered Vitality (LibMort/Spell) - Immunity to ability damage or drain is situational, but very powerful when you need it. Cast this before fighting yuan-ti, giant vermin, undead, or anything else with a nasty ability damage or poison attack. The immunity to fatigue can also be handy for the party barbarian. Superior Magic Fang (Drac/Spell) - GMF on all of your attacks. It's self-only, though. Unholy Beast (CoR) - This is an odd one. It's a lesser, single-target Animal Growth...but with a Dominate Animal effect tossed in. Great for stealing Animal Companions, but still usable as a general-purpose buff. Vortex of Teeth (Spell) - A spell that does force damage, and can tear apart anything that can'tget away. This makes a mess of anyone caught in Entangle. Wall of Salt (Sand) - Not quite Wall of Stone, but effective for battlefield control and deterring pursuit. 5th Level: Animal Growth - Multiple animals (your pet and any summons running around) get bigger and get some nice bonuses. One of the best buffs in the game, let alone in core. Anticold Sphere (Spell) - Immunity to cold and great protection from anything with the Cold subtype, with a nice long duration and an area large enough to protect the whole party. Baleful Polymorph - Turn your opponent into something inoffensive. Toad and cat are both classy forms that offer no advantages to your target. Also handy for transporting oddly-sized Animal Companions or water- or air-breathing Animal Companions Pokemon-style, since, as a permanent spell, it's dispellable. (Classy tricks include polymorphing your Roc Animal Companion into a raven for cramped quarters, or polymorphing your T-Rex companion into a frog to go underwater.) Bite of the Weretiger (Spell) - A very high str boost, a variety of other boosts, extra attacks, and free Power Attack. Blizzard (Frost) - Instant battle ender. Great for buying some time to parley or obscuring your plans. Huge area of effect. Call Lightning Storm - Call Lightning, only moreso. 5 dice of damage instead of 3. Choking Sands (Sand) - Miasma, only less so. Alternately, nonpsionic Crisis of Breath. Good for shutting down a caster for a turn. Cloak of the Sea (CAdv/Spell) - When you're underwater, it's Water Breathing, Freedom of Movement, and Blur, all in one neat little (long-duration!) package. A must-have for any underwater adventures. Death Ward - Powerful, if conditional, defensive buff. Owl's Insight (Spell) - A long-duration scaling boost to Wisdom with an unusual bonus type? Yes please. Pancaea (Spell) - A broad-based restoration spell, removing pretty much any condition other than ability damage/drain, disease, or death. Quill Blast (CD/Spell) - After the Spell Compendium rewrite, this once-broken spell is now not quite as hot. It still outperforms typical blasts for a couple of levels, but by level 9 blasting is probably not the most optimal thing to be doing. It is a really mean spell for a GM to use on the PCs, though. Rejuvenation Coccoon (CD/Spell) - A decent out-of-combat Heal alternative. Ice Shield (Frost) and Stoneskin - Excellent defensive spells (Ice Shield is stronger but has a shorter duration), but both are too monetarily expensive to use too often. Tree Stride - Poor man's Teleport. Saves on overland travel time, but that's about it. 6th Level: Antilife Shell - Exceedingly powerful defensive spell. Anything living without SR just can't touch you. Bite of the Wereboar (Spell) - Bite of the Weretiger only moreso. Chasing Perfection (PHB2) - Handy as a self-buff, since it's hard to use magic items in Wild Shape. Won't be terribly useful to the rest of the party at level 13, though. Dreamsight (Spell) - Ghostform for druids, although you'll need to protect your helpless body. 100 ft. movement as an incorporeal being will make you an awesome scout. Drown (Und/Spell) - Save or dying (0 hp). Handy for capturing enemies alive. Not death magic, but obviously doesn't work on non-living creatures, water-breathers, or creatures with no lungs. This has replaced the repeatedly-nerfed Miasma (CD/Spell). Energy Immunity (Drac/Spell) - Powerful, of a bit situational, defensive buff. Has a long enough duration to have it on all the time. Enveloping Cocoon (Spell) - This will let you turn the save of any number of nasty spells (Miasma and Baleful Polymorph being the nastiest) into a Reflex save, essentially, or just tie up one enemy that doesn't have a light/natural weapon handy (including incorporeal foes). Find the Path - Never, ever, EVER be lost. Fire Seeds - Excellent trap spell when used to make holly berry bombs. Couple it with some sort of fire resistance or immunity and you have a killer emanation-from-yourself nuke. Flames of Purity (CD) / Fires of Purity (Spell) - A hefty melee damage buff, plus Flame Shield lite. Note that, while this spell is three levels higher than Venomfire and only adds one point per caster level instead of d6, it's still a good spell. That's how silly Venomfire is. Greater Dispel Magic - Unlike mages and clerics, druids very rarely lose caster levels, so this is often a worthwhile spell to prep. Greater Scrying - Scrying without the long casting time and relatively short duration; the minor spells you can cast through the sensor aren't that useful. Liveoak - Handy if you need a Treant to guard your camp or home. The casting time and casting limitations limit its general usefulness, though. Mummify (Sand) - Save or die. Plus, it's not death magic. Spellstaff - One extra spell slot, of whatever level you can cast. Clerics with Miracle have no reason not to duplicate this very handy spell. Superior Resistance (Sav/Spell) - +6 on all saves, all day. Its utility is obvious. (Spell Compendium upped the level, but also the duration. It's still worth it, unlike the pounding Major Resistance took.) Tortoise Shell (CD/Spell) - Basically, Greater Barkskin. Not as good as Greater Luminous Armor, but is natural armor instead of armor. Valiant Steed (BoED) - Calls a Unicorn or Pegasus that serves you for an entire year. 7th Level: Constricting Chains (BoED) - Whatever it is, it's entangled and can't move. No save, no SR. Unless it has at least a +20 Escape Artist mod or a 34 Strength, it's staying stuck unless it wears down the chains with attacks (and half of that damage is in turn redirected to the chained target). Mind the Sacrifice cost, though (which doesn't take effect until the spell ends). Cry of Ysgard (BoED) - Calls 2d4 defenders of Ysgard that serve for a year. Death By Thorns (BoVD) - The Corruption cost is very painful, but this will take the target out of the fight, no matter what. Obviously an evil spell. Heal - Its uses are obvious. Rain of Roses (BoED) - Continuing Wisdom damage over an area, to evil creatures only. Great if you can limit the target's mobility, as the Wis damage doesn't allow a save. True Seeing - Magic bullet for illusions, invisibility, and shapechanging. Word of Balance (Und/Spell) - Somewhat unreliable because of the odd alignment restrictions, but very powerful when it works. 8th Level: Frostfell (Frost) - Caster level/20' cubes freeze, and anyone in this area rolls a Fort save or turns to ice (and still takes caster/d6 frostburn damage if they save). Think of it as shapable super druid Wail of the Banshee, with an extra heaping helping of awesome. Leonal's Roar (BoED) - Druidic Holy Word, plus some sonic damage. Sweet. Stormrage (Spell) - Flight, the ability to throw respectable lightning bolts, and immunity to projectile ranged attacks and wind effects of all kinds. Word of Recall - A quick escape spell, and one of the very few teleportation spells available to druids. 9th Level: Nature's Avatar (CD/Spell) - Very, very powerful animal buff, and now a swift spell. Cast it on your Animal Companion, and go to town. Shapechange - Broken spell, but you already know that. Ridiculously powerful, even if you don't abuse the Chronotyryn (FF) or Choker or Efreeti or Zodar (FF) or...well. You get the idea. Summon Elemental Monolith (CArc/Spell) - This spell is more of a Spirit Shaman or Sorc/Wiz thing (because of the potential for Spirit Companion or Sonorous Hum or Familiar Concentration spell concentration abuse), but it can be useful for straight druids. The elemental monoliths are ridiculously powerful, especially given the very high save DCs of the whirlwind and vortex abilities of air and water monoliths. Tsunami (Spell) - The fight is over. This spell will end anyone smaller than Gargantuan who can't immediately get out of the way of the 40-ft-high wave. The spell component is rather expensive, however. Undermaster (Spell) - Awesome power indeed. This gives you a whole variety of great spell-likes, some of which aren't even on the druid list. ----- SUMMONING: Druids have the ability to spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally, making memorizing the spells pointless. Given the short duration of these spells and the disposable nature of summoned creatures, you're going to want to use them as distraction and cannon fodder. Speak With Animals is especially handy when you're summoning animals, as it allows you to direct them to flank, concentrate on particular foes, or do other useful things other than "attack closest foe or biggest threat." Level 1: Wolf - Not much worth summoning at this level, so the wolf is it. Level 2: Crocodile - Unless the foe is small enough to grapple, have it slap with its tail. Hippogriff - A little less hard-hitting than a croc, but it flies and you can talk to it. No animal buffs, though. (Bonus style points for having it grapple a foe and fly up until the spell runs out.) Level 3: d3 Crocodiles - An ad-hoc swarm of crocs is great for shutting down spellcasters or other weaker, grappleable or low-AC foes. Dire Wolf - Other than the low AC, this is an all-round combat superstar. Level 4: d3 Dire Wolves - Dire Wolves hit hard enough and have enough HP to make them useful in numbers. Brown Bear - Hits hard enough to be on the front line, and grapples spellcasters and such. Oh yeah. Giant Crocodile - Compared to the Brown Bear, it has one big bite instead of multiple medium hits, with better grappling to make up for the lesser damage. Whether you use this or Brown Bear is a matter of style. Tiger - Another Brown Bear alternative. Slightly less damage in a straight fight and a slightly lower grapple check, but does more damage when charging or when in a grapple. Unicorn - Summon Unicorns for on-the-spot healing. Three uses of CLW, a use of CMW, a use of Neutralize Poison, and at-will Detect Evil. Plus, it can bypass DR X/magic and is smart enough to talk to. Yellow Musk Creeper (FF) - A very unusual summon, Yellow Musk Creepers are super-tough (good HP plus Regeneration), have Blindsight, and can use their Musk Puff ability to enthrall and devour anything with a bad Fort save. Just don't expect them to do any straight slugging, with their weak attacks, or keep up with fast-moving foes, due to their near-inability to move. Level 5: d3 Brown Bears (or Giant Crocodiles or Tigers) - A pack of grapplers can shut down many foes and outstrip even a single Polar Bear. Large Elemental - This is where Elementals start to get good. Earth Elementals will be your general-purpose tanks (although Fire Elementals can fill this role equally well), and double as caster-killers if you have Rashemi Elemental Summoning (UE). Air Elementals are great for shutting down swarms of mooks, fliers smaller than they are, and casters, but aren't quite as hard-hitting as the other Elementals. (Remember, a Large or larger Air Elemental in Whirlwind form counts as a storm for Call Lightning and Call Lightning Storm.) Rhinocerous - Very deadly if summoned with room to charge an enemy. Level 6: Huge Elemental - A single Huge Elemental is worth more than three smaller ones. Keep using this in the same way you used the Large ones. Large Storm Elemental (MM3) - Think of it as a Fireball and a summon, all in one. Storm Elementals aren't quite the fighters the other Elementals are, but the first turn they are summoned, they do 12d6 damage to everything in 60 feet (plus 4d4 nonlethal to a single target) instead of attacking normally. Make sure you speak Auran to keep it from blasting your allies, or else be careful where you summon it. Dire Bear - Tears casters to bits. Great for anything that can't handle its +23 grapple mod, not so great for anything else. Elephant - Raw damage machine. Not as tough as a huge Earth Elemental, but hits very hard or tramples mooks. Oread (FF) - Not a melee monster, but has an awesome array of spells, including Transmute Rock to Mud, Stone Shape, and Earthquake(!). Don't ever bother prepping Earthquake if you can just summon an Oread. Pixie - Not much in melee, but can cast Dispel Magic (poorly but repeatedly) and Detect Thoughts for you. Level 7: d3 Huge Elementals - Greater Elementals are only marginally better than their Huge counterparts. Huge Storm Elemental (MM3) - A Huge Storm Elemental is significantly better than even two or three Large ones. Pixie (w/sleep arrows and Otto's Irresistible Dance) - You're casting a 7th-level spell to summon a creature that can cast an 8th-level spell (Otto's Irresistible Dance), then keep fighting after that. Do the math. Level 8: d3 Greater Elementals - A pack of Greater Elementals far outstrips any of the limited choices at this level. Greater Storm Elemental (MM3) - Definitely better than a Huge Storm Elemental. Sporebat (FF) - A very specialized choice, this is good for Enervating foes you can't otherwise hurt. Otherwise, they're pretty wimpy. Level 9: d4+1 Greater Elementals - Elder Elementals are marginal at best. d3 Greater Storm Elementals - Think of it as spontaneous druidic Meteor Swarm, only it leaves Greater Elementals in its wake. A fun tactic: have them stagger their use of Thunder And Lightning to heal each other if they take damage. Aquatic If you're underwater, you might want to instead summon... Level 1: Porpoise - Not exactly a combat dynamo, but it's something. Blindsight is handy in the dark depths at the ocean's floor (I always wanted to use that line) or against invisible foes. Level 2: Crocodile - Just as good in the water as it is on dry land. Level 3: d3 Crocodiles - None of the other options are worth fiddling with. Level 4: Giant Crocodile - A great all-rounder, especially underwater. Sea Cat - The underwater equivalent to the Brown Bear, only with Rend instead of Improved Grab. Level 5: d3 Giant Crocodiles - A pack of killer crocodiles is still your best combat summon. Large Water Elemental - The Water Elementals don't become as dominating as their Earth equivalents on land, but Vortex shuts down spellcasters and mooks cold and DR 5/- frustrates lesser foes. Orca Whale - Lacks the Improved Grab of the Giant Crocodile, but has Blindsight and more HP. Level 6: Huge Water Elemental - NOW we're talking. Huge size is when Water Elementals come into their own, and get the AC and HP to stand (swim?) on the front line while maintaining the ability to shut down lesser combatants with a Vortex. Level 7: d3 Huge Water Elementals - Greater Elementals only get marginal improvements over their Huge predecessors. Level 8: d3 Greater Water Elementals - Like Earth Elementals, but underwater, get it? Level 9: d4+1 Greater Water Elementals - For the same reasons you were summoning them last level. Octopus Tree (FF) - The Fiend Folio strikes again. This critter has nine competent attacks, Improved Grab and Swallow Whole, a (mostly useless) frightful presence ability, Quickened spell-likes, and Regeneration to boot. Greenbound: If you took Greenbound (LEoF), things are a bit different. Obviously, you're going to want to summon animals, and the bonuses make multiple lower-level creatures, particularly grapplers, more powerful. As such, you'll spend a lot of time summoning d3 grappler creatures. Remember, you can still summon utility creatures like Unicorns or Pixies. They just don't benefit from Greenbound. PROTIP: If you cast Speak With Plants, you can have your Greenbound summons cast Entangle or Wall of Thorns for you. Take advantage of this! Level 1: Wolf Level 2: d3 Wolves Level 3: d3 Crocodiles Level 4: d3 Dire Wolves Level 5: d3 Brown Bears or Giant Crocodiles or Tigers Level 6: d3 Polar Bears Level 7: d3 Dire Bears Level 8: d3 Dire Tigers or d4+1 Dire Bears or d3 Dire Rhinocerouses (FF) Level 9: d3 Rocs Vermin If you took Children of Winter (EbCS), I recommend this list instead: This list is still in progress. Level 1: Level 2: Level 3: Level 4: Level 5: Level 6: Level 7: Level 8: Level 9: Druids also have access to two other chains of summoning spells: Summon Desert Ally in Sandstorm, and Conjure Ice Beast in Frostburn. They're both more or less useless, not least because they don't summon animals (instead, both of them summon creatures with a template that turns them into constructs) and because druids can't cast the spells spontaneously. Optimal use of these two spell chains is easy: they suck, don't use them! (Try saying that advice in a Dr. Venture voice.) ----- EQUIPMENT: Yeah. I need to do more with this, and make it less out of date. Note that Magical Locations, mentioned in DMG2 and later books, are nice for druids, since they don't go away when you Wild Shape. Garden of Nature's Rage (DMG2) gives a Wild Shape-specific boost, for what it's worth. A Vestment of Verminshape (DMG2) lets you take vermin Wild Shapes. Vermin sort of suck, though. Shifter Braid of Spellstrike (RoE) gives you a quickened buff of third level or less for 500 gp a use, if you're a shifter. Wilding Clasps (MoF) and Wilding armor got a lot better after the Polymorph errata. Mouthpick weapons (LoM) are silly but useful in Wild Shape. ----- BUILDS OTHER THAN PHB DRUID 20 Druids, unlike many other classes, do just fine without ever touching a single multiclass dip, prestige class, or substitute level, and by and large, this guide assumes you're building a Druid 20. While that's probably the ideal build for versatility and pure power, multiclassing offers a few unusual options. The most common variant uses a prestige class to improve on Wild Shape. Nature's Warrior and Warshaper (both CW) aren't usually worth the caster level hits on their own, but they're good suffixes for a build that substantially sacrifices casting for some sort of major Wild Shape power up. Master of Many Forms (CAdv) lets you Wild Shape into pretty much anything by the time you're done with all 10 levels, but you lose all your caster levels over those ten levels. (Arismir has written a full guide to MoMF here.) Similarly, Planar Shepard (FoE) gives you a series of thematic boosts, among them the ability to Wild Shape into any Magical Beast, Outsider, or Elemental from a chosen favored plane. Plus, it comes with full casting. (Tweedledope has written a full guide to this silly awesome class here.) Another, relatively recently introduced, variation is the totally-Wild-Shape-free druid, by using substitution levels to replace Wild Shape with some other ability, usually ongoing combat buffs. Chief among these is Player's Handbook 2's Shapeshift, which exchanges Wild Shape for a simplified Wild Shape-like set of buffs, by transforming into generic animalistic forms. These are buffs on your natural stats rather than replacing your stats Polymorph-style, so your physical stats actually mean something, you can turn it on and off at will, you can pick what your form looks like, and you get it from level 1. On the other hand, Natural Spell doesn't work, you lose a ton of versatility, Small druids get boned in melee, and the forms aren't nearly as strong as plain old Wild Shape. Shapeshift isn't more powerful than Wild Shape for the vast majority of druids (save in the limited case of larger-than-Medium druids; GMs take note!), but it is much simpler. Rather than going into great detail here, I'm just going to link Arismir's handy guide. Unearthed Arcana has a Wild-Shape-less druid variant, which trades Wild Shape for a bunch of random, not-terribly-amazing abilties taken from the monk and ranger. In addition to the fact that there's little synergy (Wis-to-AC for a class that can wear medium armor?), this variant is rather lacking in a coherent theme. While it isn't strictly bad, I can't recommend it. Also subpar are both of the other Wild-Shape-less substitute levels, Aspect of the Dragon (DMagic) and the fifth Shifter druid sub level. Aspect of the Dragon burns up your Wild Shape uses far too fast at mid levels, and the Shifter substitute level is subpar compared to the claws or bite of a comparable Wild Shape form. Still more to come Substitute class levels Class-based sub levels are dealt with in the races section, above. As for the rest, I'll get to it later. Spontaneous Rejuvenation (PHB2) - This level, taken at first level, trades your ability to spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally for the ability to give the party Fast Healing. The downside is that, unlike the Vigor chain, you can't abuse metamagic, but on the upside, it doesn't draw AOOs and can be used in Wild Shape form without Natural Spell. Planar Druids (PlHB) - This is a mixed bag. Resisting outsiders vs. resisting fey, immunity to planar effects instead of immunity to venom, and countering summons vs. A Thousand Faces are all very situational. It will depend largely on what you face in your games. Champions of Valor sub levels - I don't have this book. Until I get it, there's a thread here. Prestige classes: Totally in progress. Still working on this one, and advice would be appreciated; it may be a tad out of date. Druid 20 is good. While most of this guide assumes you're going for straight level 20 Wild Shaping druid, there are other options. Good: These prestige classes retain the druidic spellcasting and shapeshifting, possibly in altered or reprioritized form. You can fit these into a character who still plays essentially similarly to the basic Druid 20, and using them doesn't invalidate the bulk of the advice in this guide. Moonspeaker (RoE), which is restricted to Shifter and may or may not be thematically incompatible with Eberron Initiate feats (ask your GM) trades off four levels of Wild Shape for a bunch of spell enhancement, particularly with shifting. Tealgorthan wrote an excellent guide for it, available here. Planar Shepherd (FoE) - Borkedy borked borked broken. It turns your Wild Shape into Shapechange for any of a variety of Outsiders from your chosen plane (and bear in mind that demons, devils, and archons are all from the same plane in Eberron). Tweedledope has a quite handy guide to why this silly prestige class is crazy awesome and how to make the most of it, here. Weird: These prestige classes are dramatically different, and mostly beyond the scope of this guide. Arcane Hierophant (RotW) - Wizard/druid blended class. I've never fiddled with this, and I don't think a guide has been written. (If someone has a guide, please point it out to me.) Fochluchan Lyrist (CAdv) - Bard/druid blended class, with bardic music, bardic magic, and druidic magic. It really needs its own guide, which Iaimeki has written and can be found here. Master of Many Forms (CAdv) - This slowly turns your Wild Shape into Shapechange lite. It's interesting, but it's a net loss of power because of the total lack of spellcasting over the course of ten levels. Haterkatze has updated his guide for the Polymorph errata, and it's available here. Daggerspell Shaper (CAdv) - This isn't nearly as popular as its counterpart, Daggerspell Mage, but it does have potential. (This is assuming you allow it to advance maximum HD for Wild Shaping; by RAW it only advances duration, which makes it pretty useless). Bad: These suck. This section has been removed, since pretty much all other PrCs suck. Basically, if it takes away caster levels or doesn't give you Wild Shape, don't mess with it. And don't ever, ever, ever take Blighter. ----- CONTROVERSIAL OPTIONS This is an incomplete section, mostly cut and paste out of notes. It's mostly up, here, to spark conversation. There are lots of iffy-but-technically legal tricks with the druid, as well as the usual set of poorly-worded-and-thus-up-to-interpretation abilities, feats, items, and spells. As such, these strategies are based in these commonly-house-ruled rules or grey-area interpretations. As GMs are likely to close loopholes or disagree with grey-area interpretations, these strategies have been separated from the guide as a whole, since some of them invalidate more-generally-applicable advice. As with anything but especially in these cases, talk to your GM before you make a character that relies on a certain interpretation in any of these cases. One of the most infamous examples is the Alter Self/Polymorph Inheritances loophole. Rules of the Game (link goes here) and the FAQ (link goes here) clarified that the effects of Alter Self/Polymorph are each handled separately instead of as a unified whole, which means that abilities that aren't specifically removed as part of a change in form don't actually go away until the duration of that Alter Self, Polymorph, or Wild Shape effect expires. The most immediately obvious of the abilities you gain without losing when you change into a new shape are racial bonus feats. The practical implication of this is that A Thousand Faces and Elemental Wild Shape are nearly unending fountains of bonus feats. For example, if you wanted Multiattack, you'd just turn into a troglodyte, then Wild Shape into whatever form you want while still retaining Multiattack from your ongoing session of Thousand Faces (Troglodyte). If you wanted proficiency in the longsword and longbow, boom, turn into an elf. This becomes especially abusive when you gain Elemental Wild Shape, which explicitly gives you all of the bonus feats of your chosen Elemental form, not just the bonus feats. Another implication of the RotG/FAQ clarification is that immunities granted by type are kept despite changing into a new type. (This also comes up when your native type is Construct (Living) or Plant, in the case of Warforged or Volodni druids.) This means that high-level druids will often use Elemental Wild Shape to turn into, say, an Air Elemental, then use regular Wild Shape to turn into their favorite general-use form, gaining both all of the immunities attendant to being an Elemental and all of the feats of an Air Elemental, while enjoying the benefits of, say, Dire Polar Bear form. Many GMs are likely to disallow any of these abuses, by simply treating changes in form as single effects with many aspects. (This interpretation means a new Wild Shape or other Polymorph-like effect cancels instead of overlapping another, per the text in the PHB about spells with similar but exclusive effects superceding each other according to the order cast.) In this case, taking a new form with Wild Shape negates all of the benefits of previous forms, be they feats, immunities, or whatever. Given the many possible abuses and extreme complexity of the strict rules as written, this simplifying house rule is exceedingly common. Ongoing discussion of how Wild Shape and A Thousand Faces stack and interact is ongoing. (That thread is really old now.) Does anyone know if this still works? It may be out of date. Another controversial point is whether or not feats that are not special techniques but instead gross alterations of the character's body are kept while in alternate forms. (For example, the Mithral/Ironwood/Adamantine Body feats that Warforged can take, the Aberrant Feats in Lords of Madness, or the Draconic Heritage feats in Draconomicon. This controversy also extends to certain prestige classes, such as the Dragon Disciple and Acolyte of the Skin, but obviously that isn't as applicable to druids.) By the strict rules as written, they are abilities gained from class levels and should be kept no matter what form you're in, but some GMs aren't comfortable with Warforged druids Wild Shaping into Brown Bears with wooden plates in their skin, or Aberrant druids turning into Dire Lions with oddly extended limbs, for either mechanical or flavor reasons. As such, any time these sorts of feats are mentioned above, it has been noted as a controversial option, not necessarily useful or available in all games. Another controversial "exploit" isn't actually a loophole or a grey area, simply a trick GMs are likely to disallow. Your items meld into your new form when you Wild Shape, but you can always drop them, then pick them up again after Wild Shaping and put them back on. By doing this, if you Wild Shape into a roughly humanoid, medium-sized form, you can keep all your equipment, including your armor and weapons. Given this, Wild Shape into a Legendary Ape (MM2) and kick some butt as an angry, super-strong ape while wearing all your usual armor and wielding your usual club. A Legendary Ape is even (arguably) close enough to humanoid for a Hat of Disguise to work, allowing you to look normal while actually having the strength and toughness of an ape. (Granted, you can't talk, but there's got to be a tradeoff, right?) If your GM does allow this, the tooluser forms in the Wild Shape section are the forms for which this technique is practical for a medium-sized druid. Another controversy is more interesting in a historical sense than a practical one, as the spells involved are no longer so strong as to be must-haves. The spells Brambles and Spikes, both originally from Defenders of the Faith (and reprinted in Complete Divine) both make mention of "melee weapons with wooden striking surfaces." It was (and still is) a matter of some debate as to what constitutes a "striking surface"; does the edge of an Ironwood scimitar suffice? Does the head of an Bronzewood spear work? In practice, this controversy is easy enough to sidestep; instead of using some sort of weird Ironwood/Bronzewood/Bluewood/whatever slashing or piercing weapon, get a club (plus, it works with Shillelagh). You're usually not missing out on a lot of damage. Druids of Mielikki and weapon proficiencies - Was this ever addressed after FRCS? Do we know for sure if druids of Mielikki are proficient in all weapons or not? Monk's Belt and Wilding armor - Too lazy to write it now - Also mention speed reduction/armor nonproficiency penalties/etc. and Wilding armor Karate bears - The interaction between IUS and natural attacks - this deserves a mention in the multiclassing/PrC section with monk1/druidX Meditations on the difference between natural attacks and unarmed attacks - Again, mostly as a historical note, as few abuses are left. ----- Thanks to Alansmithee, Arismir, Blibdoolpoolp, Encard, fnord, gamehag, Gharlane, Inkubus, Lilt, Part-Human2, PhoenixInferno, Sang-Drax, Sasu, Snow Savant, Tealgorthian, and everyone else that contributed advice. This sort of thing is always building on the work of others, so definite thanks to Uberling and Yekoj and everyone who contributed to their druid guides, as well.
#4 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 19:09:25	Placeholder post
#5 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 19:10:08	Anything here is random tidbits from my near-dead old hard drive. It might be good advice, or out of date, or duplicated elsewhere. Don't say I didn't warn you. 5th Level Call Avalanche (Frost) - Low damage for its level, but has a large area of effect (10 ft/level radius) and buries Large or smaller creatures that fail a Ref save. Buried creatures slowly take nonlethal and then lethal damage if they can't get out of the snow. Memory Rot (MoF) - Instantaneous spell effect that does permanent Int drain to the target each round until they make a Fort save. There appears to be no way except a successful Fort save to stop this, as this isn't a poison or disease and can't be dispelled. 6 entomb (drd 6, FB): can take out several enemies; even if it doesn't kill them it still keeps them from casting and does cold (and possibly con damage 7 Level 7: control weather, flesh to salt (mass), windwalk - master earth (drd 7, MoF): greater teleport for druids Rain of Roses (BoED) - Evil creatures in the huge AoE take Wis damage each round (no save) and are sickened if they fail a save. Especially great if you get a wizard to cast Solid Fog or a similar spell first. Aura of Vitality (CD/PGtF) Level 8 Mantle of The Fiery Spirit (Sand) - cast this one along with the frost version and become immune to both cold and fire. Word of Recall (PHB) - druid's quick escape. [*]Earthquake- while not combat friendly, this is a very tactical spell. [*]Word of Recall - your only teleportation ability. Level 9 [*]Regenerate - Excellent healing spell. Storm of Vengeance (PHB) - really good in a war. ----- As Arismir said, something on how druids can have synergy with other partymembers would be great, but difficult to write because druids can fill so many party roles. So far it seems rogue is a natural fit, because druids can provide opportunities for sneak attacks: a grappled foe loses its dex bonus against anyone he's not grappling with, and a summon-based druid could easily provide flanking opportunities when he summons a bunch of Nature's Allies. Grapplers generally won't work together with ranged attackers, because they have 50% chance to hit their ally. Another druid would also work well, because one of them could cast Animal Growth and the whole furry bunch would benefit. Besides, druids can fill many roles in a party, they could focus on different aspects. ----- Wyrmfang Amulet (Drac) 2500 - Ignore X/magic DR with natural attacks Sharkskin armor (RoF) instead of studded leather ----- Still need to add Hound of the Gloom (LoM) Also, I totally forgot to even check the Lords of Madness for new abberations. Quickly glancing through, there's a 12HD pouncing, grabbing, poisoning creature (hound of the gloom, only 22 str though) and a roper-like creature that looks very interesting (can extract brains, and tentacles that do 2d8 strength [with a save]) ----- Druid PrCs: Nature's Warrior Warshaper Moonspeaker(!) - -3 levels of wild shape, for awesome casting. Bears special mention! Vermin Keeper (Und)? Beastmaster (CAdv) Daggerspell Shaper (CAdv) - Grappling forms (w/Savage Grapple) only - halfling monk1/druid5/DSshaper2/Nature'sWarrior1/DSshaper8/druid3 - Vine Strike and Wracking Touch spells in CAdv - This assumes that DS Shaper advances the hit die cap Mention Arcane Heirophant, Beastmaster, and Blighter (I guess) in passing Arcane Heirophant (RotW), Fochluchan Lyrist (CAdv), and Master of Many Forms (CAdv) are beyond the scope of this guide - Any links for handbooks on them? Unusual druid specialties: Grappling Shifting - Warshaper/INA/Braid of Dire Shifting/Shifter sub level stacking. Controversial: IUS and nat attacks Monk's Belt Druids of Mielikki and weapon proficiencies Mention brambles/spikes on bronzewood bludgeoning weapons. If you can get your hands on it, a Dragonhide, Bluewood (UE), or Wildwood (RotW) breastplate (or full plate, if you get Armor Proficiency (Heavy) from somewhere) is better than leather armor. Wild Shape Amulets (MoF) are also good for those who can swing a Wis-boosing ioun stone. (Just get rid of it at level 17...which happens to be when you get Shapechange.) A note for possible future optimization: the halfling druid sub level (RoE) at 5th level opens up access to tiny dragon forms, in combination with Draconic Wild Shape. I couldn't find any interesting tiny dragon forms, but maybe someone else can. If you can stomach not spontaneously summoning for a while, the first halfling sub level might be worth it, too...who doesn't want spontaneous Freedom of Movement?
#6 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 19:13:52	I dug this out of an old, defunct hard drive, at the same time as the password for the WOTC forums. I noticed the creaky old Yekoj thread has been linked everywhere as the Druid Handbook, when Paradisio and I put a lot of work into updating it. I couldn't find any way to search for it, so a link to the old thread would be appreciated. Likewise, I've been out of the D&D loop for a while, so any advice on wildshape forms, feats, equipment, companions, spells, or whatever. I know there's the Polymorph errata that gets rid of the once-dominant equipment-wearing Legendary Ape and abuse of high-CON forms, so that's going to be incorporated immediately. Any other advice?
#7 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 19:20:34	Some stuff I found: The old thread Tealgorthian's very sweet Moonspeaker guide Polymorph errata, in easy-to-read form Arismir's guide to the PHB2 Shapeshift druid Tweedledope's Planar Shepherd (Faiths of Eberron) thread Xeraph's Spirit Shaman guide Plus there's the old link repository: Druidic Spell Combos - http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=290658 Alter Self Forms - http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=176246 Dragon Wild Shape Forms - http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=404381 Shapechange Forms - http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=226959 Master of Many Forms Bible - http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=363632 Uberling Druid (3.0) Handbook, by Uberling and Yekoj - http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=165279 Paradisio's "Updated Druid Handbook", this thread's predecessor - http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=391598
#8 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 19:33:40	Does anyone know if shifting works with post-errata Wild Shape? MM3 is unclear; "Shifting 1/day" is listed as a SA, but "Shifter traits" are listed as SQ. Also, are there any good cold-typed Magical Beast forms besides Twelve-Headed Cryohydra, particularly in later books?
#9 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 19:56:54	I applaud you efforts in updating this. For those who play with age penalties, nearly every druid is going to want to be middle-aged (-1 on physical stats, +1 on mental ones) and every druid level 7 and above is going to want to be venerable (-6 on physical stats, +3 on mental ones). I'm not so sure that Venerable is a good idea anymore. +3 to mental stats is nice, but -6 Con is a killer (often literally). Middle-aged is certainly still good, though.
#10 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 20:17:32	I applaud you efforts in updating this. I'm not so sure that Venerable is a good idea anymore. +3 to mental stats is nice, but -6 Con is a killer (often literally). Middle-aged is certainly still good, though. Noted, and it'll fixed be in the next update. Thanks for the heads-up.
#11 phoenixinferno Nov 03, 2006 20:30:37	In Surreal's index, there's a Shapeshift (PHBII alternate class feature) Druid guide. The Planar Shepherd (from Faiths of Eberron) is disturbing, and a handbook has been written.
#12 suin_bahhar_02 Nov 03, 2006 20:35:26	High level druids get the bonusses but not the minusses of old age, forgot the name of this ability but it still makes old druids very scary.
#13 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 20:38:57	In Surreal's index, there's a Shapeshift (PHBII alternate class feature) Druid guide. The Planar Shepherd (from Faiths of Eberron) is disturbing, and a handbook has been written. Links? I'm a bit out of the loop.
#14 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 21:40:38	Well, I've done the first pass working on Polymorph stuff, and added a bunch of links. I found the new Shapeshift druid guide (which I'll just summarize and link, since it's pretty straightforward), but not the Planar Shepard guide. Does anyone know if Wild Shape and Shifting still work together? If not, I've got a bunch to rewrite.
#15 phoenixinferno Nov 03, 2006 21:42:43	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=482636 Just about everything is in there.
#16 shadow_fox_deepwood_arche Nov 03, 2006 21:53:30	High level druids get the bonusses but not the minusses of old age, forgot the name of this ability but it still makes old druids very scary. Timeless Body (Ex) After attaining 15th level, a druid no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties she may have already incurred, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the druid still dies of old age when her time is up. :D
#17 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 22:34:30	I dunno if you're still looking for the link for the previous Druid Handbook, but it's under my sig
#18 zombiegleemax Nov 03, 2006 22:36:15	High level druids get the bonusses but not the minusses of old age, forgot the name of this ability but it still makes old druids very scary. It's a little hard to abuse, unless you get to 15th level then stand around twiddling your thumbs, waiting to get old. I dunno if you're still looking for the link for the previous Druid Handbook, but it's under my sig I actually saw it in your sig in one of the older threads, so thanks for helping already!
#19 zombiegleemax Nov 09, 2006 23:31:19	I'm working on a real update for the rest of the Polymorph errata bubbles and spots, as well as for Spell Compendium and PHB2 (the only newer books I have). In the meantime, I recovered a bunch of notes, so I added them to the thread unedited. Hope someone can find a use for them. Still looking for: A Dragon Magic Wild Shape-replacement thingie guide A Shifter non-Wild-Shaping druid guide An Arcane Hierophant guide Cold-typed Magical Beasts worth using besides Urskan and Cryohydra Any ZOMG druid stuff from newer books
#20 zombiegleemax Nov 10, 2006 0:51:23	Well, I tossed up a quick update. Not perfect, but there's new formatting and a bunch of stubby beginner sections. I'm working on it.
#21 part-human2 Nov 10, 2006 2:17:54	Rapid Strike & Improved Rapid Strike feats (Draco) grants extra iterative attacks for high BAB for type Elemental, Dragon, Plant, Magical Beast or Aberration with paired natural weapons. 2 notable aberration forms for Aberrate Wild Shape are Chilblain (20 HD, FB) Julajimus (16 HD, MMII) for their natural attacks and special abilities/qualities. You keep your type with Wild Shape now and it works on Constructs and Undead since it's no longer based on Polymorph. The Undead Wild Shape feat (LM) is obsolete.
#22 Paradisio Nov 10, 2006 4:08:12	Keep it up, I hope you do better than I :D
#23 zombiegleemax Nov 10, 2006 5:02:11	Mast
#24 zombiegleemax Nov 10, 2006 5:04:08	Harzerkatze, re-writed the guide, pretty much what you are doing here =) updated Master of Many Forms Bible + official wild shape rules: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=639448 Nice guide A Man in Black!
#25 Paradisio Nov 16, 2006 0:42:19	Well, we have decided natural bond doesn't work after all, so you will probably want to remove that. I think most of the buffs are probably worse after the errata (what with the animal spells not working on the druid now) than the "bite of the X spells" which actually seem pretty good, and still function on both you and the companion. On the other hand, most of these buffs stack with the animal only spells (which seem to be either morale or luck) so I think you could actually have a pretty impressive druid that relies mostly on buffing their animals. Natures Favor + Nature's Avatar + Bite of the Werebear = ouch :D Anyways, I've basically been forced to play a druid in a campaign i'm in at this point so I'm actually thinking about writing my own guide again since I think it would be useful for myself... so I hope you don't mind the competition.
#26 NineInchNall Nov 16, 2006 1:02:20	You might want to put each section and subsection within sblocks for readability. Yeesh. Seriously long posts.
#27 generallyunique Nov 16, 2006 2:20:42	Good spell: I don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but I was looking through the PHBII and saw the spell As the Frost, and it's amazing. It turns the caster into an outsider, gaining type bonuses, and you get immunity to cold, DR10/magic and piercing, and an AOE frost aura that deals damage every round and slows those damaged by it. It's really nice, if only for the DR. What I think is cool about it, though, is that you can very, very easily share this with your animal companion, making those near you take damage twice, and save from the slow effect twice. In addition, your animal companion is now an outsider, making it easy to alter-self them (provided you have enough use magic device) into something intelligent. Nice?
#28 vorlir Nov 16, 2006 8:56:34	The druid in the game I'm running used that spell..once. But someone went down and he is the backup healer in the group. But he couldnt go heal the guy because he would have killed him with his cold damage.
#29 shadow_fox_deepwood_arche Nov 16, 2006 19:32:37	The druid in the game I'm running used that spell..once. But someone went down and he is the backup healer in the group. But he couldnt go heal the guy because he would have killed him with his cold damage. There is a time and a place for everything. If your expected to heal, dont cast it, obviously. The spells power cant be denied when you can safely wade into melee, cast this spell, and share it with your companion. Its damage, control, and buffing in one spell.
#30 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2006 0:45:08	Well, we have decided natural bond doesn't work after all, so you will probably want to remove that. I think most of the buffs are probably worse after the errata (what with the animal spells not working on the druid now) than the "bite of the X spells" which actually seem pretty good, and still function on both you and the companion. On the other hand, most of these buffs stack with the animal only spells (which seem to be either morale or luck) so I think you could actually have a pretty impressive druid that relies mostly on buffing their animals. Natures Favor + Nature's Avatar + Bite of the Werebear = ouch :D This is going in the guide. I still haven't incorporated Spell Compendium material yet. Anyways, I've basically been forced to play a druid in a campaign i'm in at this point so I'm actually thinking about writing my own guide again since I think it would be useful for myself... so I hope you don't mind the competition. I've got a better idea, I think. Why don't I stick this on the CharOp wiki that someone has hosted so we can both work on it (as well as get help from anyone else passing by), then just post the updates here whenever they look good?
#31 Paradisio Nov 18, 2006 1:08:40	Or how about I just post revised material here and you update it?
#32 doobiusportugal_dup Nov 18, 2006 20:29:27	A quick thought, regarding material from the spell compendium: there's a nifty little level 1 (!!!) spell called Aspect of the Wolf that transforms your tyoe into animal for 1 minute/level (I think). It has other irrelevant consequences. The bonus is that, of course, you can, now, cast all those nifty spells that last for hours/level and/or those that target an animal on yourself AND share them with your animal companion... Using the rule stated on PHB (don't know which page, it's in the magic section), a spell only checks for valid targets at the moment you cast it. For spells that have shorter durations, Quickened Aspect of the wolf can be very good, also, specially for wildshaping-melee druids: 1st round) Quickened Aspect of the wolf, Wildshape into animal with massive strenght 2nd round) Nature's Avatar + Bite of the Werebear + move 3rd round) distribute assorted cuddlings among your foes as you wish So, with this spell you're no longer limited to buffing your animal companion or other animals controled by iniate of nature, but you can do it to yourself and share them! What do you guys think about this tactic? Is there a way to improve it? Is a 2-round delay worth the beneficial effects?
#33 zombiegleemax Nov 18, 2006 23:59:02	Or how about I just post revised material here and you update it? Or that. A quick thought, regarding material from the spell compendium: there's a nifty little level 1 (!!!) spell called Aspect of the Wolf that transforms your tyoe into animal for 1 minute/level (I think). It has other irrelevant consequences. The bonus is that, of course, you can, now, cast all those nifty spells that last for hours/level and/or those that target an animal on yourself AND share them with your animal companion... Using the rule stated on PHB (don't know which page, it's in the magic section), a spell only checks for valid targets at the moment you cast it. For spells that have shorter durations, Quickened Aspect of the wolf can be very good, also, specially for wildshaping-melee druids: 1st round) Quickened Aspect of the wolf, Wildshape into animal with massive strenght 2nd round) Nature's Avatar + Bite of the Werebear + move 3rd round) distribute assorted cuddlings among your foes as you wish So, with this spell you're no longer limited to buffing your animal companion or other animals controled by iniate of nature, but you can do it to yourself and share them! What do you guys think about this tactic? Is there a way to improve it? Is a 2-round delay worth the beneficial effects? I'm going to playtest this with my home group and see how it works out.
#34 skyrocket Nov 19, 2006 3:26:30	I've been able to get one heck of a body count with Murderous Mist. Even if someone saves they're made permanently blind. Brutal! Lava Missle isn't bad either. I think boa consticter is also worth mentioning as a summon. It's great for taking out an inconveniantly placed guard.
#35 doobiusportugal_dup Nov 19, 2006 9:11:25	Maybe this has been stated somewhere, but I couldn't find any reference to it: if you play with a DM that lets you abuse the stacking forms of wildshape (elemental) to get feat abuses, then you could, abuse it at mid levels easily. In spell compendium there is the spell enhance wildshape, which, in one of it's forms lets you grab the extraordinary special qualities of the animal form you wildshape next. So, around level 8, cast the spell, wildshape into a desmodu guard bat (MMII), grab the awesome blindsight 120', get flight with a large form that has 5 foot face - meaning it's wing span is about 10 feet, a VERY important thing when in dungeons/underground; next time you face something big, do not dismiss wildshape - stack another use of wildshape to get your favorite fighting form, wich now has 120' blindsight - and will have, for the next hours...
#36 zombiegleemax Nov 19, 2006 20:43:24	I've been able to get one heck of a body count with Murderous Mist. Even if someone saves they're made permanently blind. Brutal! What book? I think boa consticter is also worth mentioning as a summon. It's great for taking out an inconveniantly placed guard. Spells with verbal components aren't usually terribly useful for stealth, sadly. if you play with a DM that lets you abuse the stacking forms of wildshape (elemental) to get feat abuses, then you could, abuse it at mid levels easily. In spell compendium there is the spell enhance wildshape, which, in one of it's forms lets you grab the extraordinary special qualities of the animal form you wildshape next. So, around level 8, cast the spell, wildshape into a desmodu guard bat (MMII), grab the awesome blindsight 120', get flight with a large form that has 5 foot face - meaning it's wing span is about 10 feet, a VERY important thing when in dungeons/underground; next time you face something big, do not dismiss wildshape - stack another use of wildshape to get your favorite fighting form, wich now has 120' blindsight - and will have, for the next hours... Why not use Embrace the Wild and embrace the Desmodu Guard Bat? This seems to be overly complex to do something that there's already a spell to do.
#37 ixian_device_dup Nov 19, 2006 21:24:57	Consolidated Spell List According to that list, murderous mist is a 4th level druid spell from the spell compendium page 145
#38 caelic Nov 19, 2006 21:35:24	Why not use Embrace the Wild and embrace the Desmodu Guard Bat? This seems to be overly complex to do something that there's already a spell to do. Embrace the Wild has been significantly revised; you're now restricted to a few pre-defined sensory choices.
#39 ixian_device_dup Nov 19, 2006 21:37:53	Embrace the Wild has been significantly revised; you're now restricted to a few pre-defined sensory choices. Oh wiwwy? That's too bad... curse you SpC!!
#40 doobiusportugal_dup Nov 20, 2006 2:14:24	Yup, Embrace the Wild was seriously BALANCED in spell compendium... Now you have to sweat to get blindsight 120'... and that's the way I have to grab it. I don't know if there is an easier way to do it... Overall, I find that the druid is now a class that forces you to do a lot of "tricks" like these to get serious power, and, like everyone states around this board, was substantialy nerfed...
#41 zombiegleemax Nov 20, 2006 20:48:54	New update. I consolidated the various commentaries on multiclassing, PrCs, and sub levels into one section, which is currently being rewritten. There's still plenty of work to be done, especially with Spell Compendium and the Wild Shape section. Any advice on good defensive, Aberration, or Cold-subtype Magical Beast forms post-errata would be greatly appreciated, and it would help to know about any Druid spells nerfed in Spell Compendium (I already know about Quill Blast and Embrace the Wild.) Also, lastly, where the heck is the Greater Holy Symbol from?
#42 sasu Nov 21, 2006 10:44:29	Hey, A good, very good 4th lvl spell from the Spell Compendium is: Vortex of Teeth. A area force spell that can hit anything, great area effect, duration and is a big blender that can eat almost anything ( save for certain SR-enemies). The spell Quill Blast is mentioned earlier( see below). As written here it appears to be a good 5th lvl spell but when I read it in the Spell Compendium, it's not as strong as given below. Your enemies only get a -1 penalty on AC, Attacks and saves. The quills don't stack ( each quill a -1 penalty), it is said. Or am I wrong?? Besides that I've got a small question. I'm at the moment a 12th level druid and my party and I are on the plane of shadow ( just entered, and "on the way to Shar" ). What can I do as an allround druid to be effective against shadow creatures on this plane. Shapechange into a plant/animal or spells (max. 6th lvl)?. My feats are (maily) based on summoning, natural bond(companion) etc. Anybody any good ideas on this? Still got one feat to choose ( but which one...?, to many good choices) **""Quill Blast (CD) - Hilariously, ridiculously, hideously broken spell. Everything within the area of effect suddenly loses all ability to hit things in combat and all resistance to spells, and takes a pile of damage besides. Maximize it (particularly with Sudden Maximize or a Maximizing Metamagic Rod) for extra silly brokenness""**
#43 technodemon Nov 25, 2006 0:23:43	Ok i some updated equipment stuff for the handbook. i am creating druid right for an upcoming campaign and I needed armor for him. So i looked up Races of the Wild to see what they had in armor the best I saw was the Wildwood special armor material. It does gives you some modifications in AC bonus, Dex bonus and armor check. The main thing for this is that the armor is flexible, it regow when damage like healing hp and it strong as steel.
#44 technodemon Nov 25, 2006 0:27:18	Complete Mage has an unique rule mechanic for Druid Substitute class levels. Instead of a regular animal companion you gain an elemental companion will grow in power or size along with you as you level.
#45 zombiegleemax Nov 25, 2006 4:09:55	I'm at the moment a 12th level druid and my party and I are on the plane of shadow ( just entered, and "on the way to Shar" ). What can I do as an allround druid to be effective against shadow creatures on this plane. Shapechange into a plant/animal or spells (max. 6th lvl)?. My feats are (maily) based on summoning, natural bond(companion) etc. Anybody any good ideas on this? Whatever you were doing before. You may want to lean on your spells as the Plane of Shadow has quite a few incorporeal denizens (don't summon and make sure to use Magic Fang or GMF if you're going into melee against incorporeals), and you may want Attune Form if the plane has some nasty attributes (I just failed my K(Planes) check and forgot if it does). It really depends on what you're doing in the Plane of Shadow. Shadow creature is a really slight template that doesn't do much, and tons of weird things in different books live on that plane.
#46 zombiegleemax Nov 30, 2006 2:43:44	I checked Murderous Mist. If you make the save, you aren't blinded, and it's not so hot otherwise. I think it's skippable. I think I'm going to skip the using-Enhance-Wild-Shape-then-taking-another-form bit. It just doesn't work. "The enhancement to your wild shape lasts as long as you stay in that form (or until the spell's duration expires) but does not apply to your next Wild Shape form." If you use Wild Shape to take another form, you're no longer in that first form, whether or not you come up some sort of silliness about stacking two separate instances of Wild Shape. Those aside, I've updated the guide. More multiclassing/sub level advice, some spell updates (including the advice people are giving), and some other stuff I found. Incidentally, Thunderhead is such a silly spell.
#47 tomada_dup Nov 30, 2006 11:05:54	I checked Murderous Mist. If you make the save, you aren't blinded, and it's not so hot otherwise. I think it's skippable. I think I'm going to skip the using-Enhance-Wild-Shape-then-taking-another-form bit. It just doesn't work. "The enhancement to your wild shape lasts as long as you stay in that form (or until the spell's duration expires) but does not apply to your next Wild Shape form." If you use Wild Shape to take another form, you're no longer in that first form, whether or not you come up some sort of silliness about stacking two separate instances of Wild Shape. Those aside, I've updated the guide. More multiclassing/sub level advice, some spell updates (including the advice people are giving), and some other stuff I found. Incidentally, Thunderhead is such a silly spell. But you can Shape change into something, grab some special abilities and then wild shape into another, right? Since wild shape will maintain you abilities and not get the abilities of the creature your turning into. EDIT I think I read this right here in this thread, will read again EDIT EDIT So I can, say, shapechange into a choker(standard action) and then wild shape into other thing, say, a Roc (through gargantuan wild shape, epic feat, I'm playing an epic character), then use a movement action. Then, on subsequent turns I can take 2 standard actions and a movement one, 1 std and 2 mov, 3 movement or 1 full round + 1std or mov? For 10 min*caster level? Hum... Pitty wild shape don't give me the animal subtype, so I can use animal growth on mysekf(was SO disapointed by this) Just looked, shapechange seems to allow templated forms, right? So, I can turn in a creature of up to 23HD, a choker is only 3HD. I could shapechange in a half-celestial, half-dragon, half-fey, lycanthrope, vampire, lich choker? Am I wrong? I mean, this is by the rules as written, I know I will not be able to pull that on a real DM. MAYBE if LA are taken in account
#48 zombiegleemax Nov 30, 2006 23:43:56	So I can, say, shapechange into a choker(standard action) and then wild shape into other thing, say, a Roc (through gargantuan wild shape, epic feat, I'm playing an epic character), then use a movement action. Then, on subsequent turns I can take 2 standard actions and a movement one, 1 std and 2 mov, 3 movement or 1 full round + 1std or mov? For 10 min*caster level? I guess. I don't think specific abuses are really needed, given the posibility of infinite Wishes as it is. By the way, I like Dragonhawk (in Five Nations) as a Roc alternative that non-Epic characters can use.
#49 Gharlane Dec 01, 2006 1:35:49	Some spell suggestions / notes on changes: 2nd level: Blinsight (SC) is now 3rd level spell Kelpstrand (SC), ranged touch attack grapple, close range, (1 strand/3 levels), adding caster level + wisdom bonus instead of size and strength to grapple checks Saltray (SC), ranged touch attack, non-energy damage, max 5d6 (d6/2 levels) no save + fort save or be stunned for 1, good replacement for creeping cold 3rd level: Energy Vortex (SC) 20 ft burst, 2d8 + twice your caster level if you forgo your reflex save, easily mitigated at lower levels by resist energy and at higher levels by energy immunity Forestfold (SC) - +10 on Hide and Move Silently checks in a natural environment for 1 hour/level. [the version you have at 4th level is obsolete] Giant’s Wrath (SC) - 2d6 + 1/level damage + STR damage per pebble, 1 pebble / 3 levels Girallon's Blessing (SC) an extra set of hands, wield your spiked shillelaghs while wildshaped Hypothermia (SC) max 10d6 + fatigue, fort save for half, probably the most damage you can do at once at lower levels Junglerazer (SC) - Max 10d10 120 ft. line vs fey, vermin, plants & animals, reflex half Mass Resist Energy (SC) - Exactly like resist energy but affects entire party, surprisingly low level 4th level: Freeze Armor (Frost) - Can immobilize anyone wearing metal armor, and doubles as a more-powerful version of Chill Armor. Last Breath (SC) - while the time window remains the same, the spell works like reincarnate now except the material cost is halved and there is no level loss Languor (SC) - Ranged touch, max 1d6 +10 (every 2 levels) strength drain, + will save or be slowed Thalassemia (Storm) - turns blood to seawater; touch attack, max 15d6, Fort Half 5th level: Echo Skull (SC) cast it before you rest and your wildshape communication problems are solved for the day 6th level: Cometfall (SC) - Max 15d6, Ref half, No SR, also knocks enemies prone and creates debris. Extract Water Elemental (SC) - Horrific but effective, kill opponent and gain a water elemental 7th: Master Earth (SC) teleport anywhere on the material plane 8th: Deadfall (SC) max 20d6 , no save + no spell resistance (+ reflex save or be prone) --------- Spell Compendium (SC) contains all the spells printed in the complete books and miniatures handbook and many from the environmental and faerun books. In the case where a spell changed (especially substantially) I would remove the earlier listing (I'd remove them period). I'd also remove or seperate the vile/exalted spells as they've never been updated and thery're generally unbalanced / not permitted in many campaigns. I feel the same way about faerun spells that were not reprinted in the spell compendium (I think of their absence as a vote of non-confidence).
#50 zombiegleemax Dec 01, 2006 3:31:16	I will totally be taking the spell suggestions, but... Spell Compendium (SC) contains all the spells printed in the complete books and miniatures handbook and many from the environmental and faerun books. In the case where a spell changed (especially substantially) I would remove the earlier listing (I'd remove them period). I'd also remove or seperate the vile/exalted spells as they've never been updated and thery're generally unbalanced / not permitted in many campaigns. I feel the same way about faerun spells that were not reprinted in the spell compendium (I think of there absence as a vote of non-confidence). I've fiddled with some other arrangements for spells, but there's no way to prevent scattering all the spells of a certain level all over the place if I break it up the way you suggest. The reader will have to edit out the material for books he or she doesn't have. As for omitting cites to old books for reprinted spells, not everyone has Spell Compendium. Sometimes it's impossible to accomodate an update without changing the guide substantially (the guide currently assumes you play with the latest Polymorph errata, and spells nerfed into the ground in Spell were removed), but I don't see any problem with helping people out who have Complete Divine but not Spell Compendium. (Likewise for FR stuff; I leave it to GMs and players to decide for themselves what is appropriate for their game, with caveats attached to possibly game-breaking options.) That said, I've been pondering color coding for setting; the categories I was considering were core, splat/races/Spell, Exalted/Vile, FR, and Eberron. Any thoughts?
#51 Gharlane Dec 01, 2006 4:12:09	Wildshaping corrections: The Night Twists's [MM II]'s AC is only 22 for a Druid since it won't gain the deflection bonus. The Saguaro Sentinel is Huge, so cannot be obtained until 15th level. Animal Companions: The Bloodstriker Dinosaur [MM III] is the best [/too good] form at level 10 since its damage shield will rapidly destroy anything foolish enough to attack it. The Dire Tortoise [Sandstorm] really should be gained at 13 or probably16 as level 10 is inappropriate, and some sort of advisory should be included in its recommendation.
#52 technodemon Dec 01, 2006 16:32:13	I was wandering that could a Druid wield the cutlass sword from Stormwrack?
#53 shadow_fox_deepwood_arche Dec 01, 2006 16:43:04	I was wandering that could a Druid wield the cutlass sword from Stormwrack? The answer is as simple as cracking open your players handbook. Weapon and Armor Proficiency Druids are proficient with the following weapons: club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, sickle, shortspear, sling, and spear. They are also proficient with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) of any form they assume with wild shape. The cutlass is not on that list so druids are not proficient. You would need to spend a feat on proficiency to get rid of the -4 penalty.
#54 zombiegleemax Dec 01, 2006 23:49:42	Wildshaping corrections: All in my current draft, and so they'll be in the next update.
#55 zombiegleemax Dec 02, 2006 1:29:25	Good handbook. But I think a really excellent all-around feat that's missing is Occular Spell from Lords of Madness. This has got to be one of the best, most versatile feats for any spellcaster. For +2 levels, you can cast two spells (like quicken). As a matter of fact, you can cast three, because it's a full round action to cast two spells with this feat, so a third is also possible via swift action. For a wildshaped druid, nothing beats straight blasts of energy coming from the eyes, no muss, no fuss (like eschew materials, still spell). Then there's the fact that you can make touch spells into ranged touch (like reach spell). Anyway, the feat has been kind to my character.
#56 friendlyfrog Dec 08, 2006 9:44:22	Two things I spotted in the PrC section: Dreamspeaker should be Moonspeaker, and Daggerspell shaper by RAW doesn't progress the maximum HD of the forms you can wild shape into (it says it stacks only for determining the duration), making it a pretty bad PrC without a house rule (which though should be a pretty reasonable one, I'd say).
#57 arismir Dec 08, 2006 10:44:51	A quick thought, regarding material from the spell compendium: there's a nifty little level 1 (!!!) spell called Aspect of the Wolf that transforms your tyoe into animal for 1 minute/level (I think). It has other irrelevant consequences. The bonus is that, of course, you can, now, cast all those nifty spells that last for hours/level and/or those that target an animal on yourself AND share them with your animal companion... Using the rule stated on PHB (don't know which page, it's in the magic section), a spell only checks for valid targets at the moment you cast it. For spells that have shorter durations, Quickened Aspect of the wolf can be very good, also, specially for wildshaping-melee druids: 1st round) Quickened Aspect of the wolf, Wildshape into animal with massive strenght 2nd round) Nature's Avatar + Bite of the Werebear + move 3rd round) distribute assorted cuddlings among your foes as you wish So, with this spell you're no longer limited to buffing your animal companion or other animals controled by iniate of nature, but you can do it to yourself and share them! What do you guys think about this tactic? Is there a way to improve it? Is a 2-round delay worth the beneficial effects? Um, I just wanna comment a little on this. First of all, although it doesn't specifically state it, you are still trying to assume two different forms and receive bonuses from both. It's the age-old debate of Wildshape and the 'Wildshape' spells in SpC. But that is still a decidable factor by your DM saying there isnt really any ruling prohibiting it, and really no logic as to how it would work. On a different note though, I really like Aspect of the Wolf for a different reason, and that is because you can use it on your animal companion. This is really useful for getting your animal companion into a town, or a small cave, instead of trying to convince the people that 'Destroyer,' the 50,000 lb Dire Grizzly is really a nice animal.
#58 zombiegleemax Dec 12, 2006 21:45:24	On a different note though, I really like Aspect of the Wolf for a different reason, and that is because you can use it on your animal companion. This is really useful for getting your animal companion into a town, or a small cave, instead of trying to convince the people that 'Destroyer,' the 50,000 lb Dire Grizzly is really a nice animal. This is definitely going in the guide, as a variation on the Baleful Polymorph Poke-roc.
#59 imneuromancer Dec 14, 2006 14:14:01	I have a question about the Goliath Powerful Build ability in relation to Druid Wildshape. First, the ability (RoStone, p. 56) states, "The benefits of this racial trait stack with effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category." Also, on the Easy to Read Polymorph Errata (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=589497), it states under the alternate form special ability: * "The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form." * The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or supernatural attacks of its new form. * Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses. OK, so if you the Powerful Build ability stacks with size modification, and the alternate form allows you to keep all of your spell-like, supernatural, special qualities, and "all other game statistics" such as feats and skills, then.... WHY IS THE POWERFUL WILDSHAPE FEAT EVEN AROUND?? It just doesn't make sense to me, other than it came out before the errata... do we need it any more, considering the errata? Am I missing something?
#60 friendlyfrog Dec 15, 2006 17:50:19	WHY IS THE POWERFUL WILDSHAPE FEAT EVEN AROUND??? The fact that bear claws aren't made for wielding weapons? It's a nice Improved natural attack feat for all your natural attacks, and actually even stacks if you take the actual feat.
#61 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2006 1:05:16	The fact that bear claws aren't made for wielding weapons? It's a nice Improved natural attack feat for all your natural attacks, and actually even stacks if you take the actual feat. FriendlyFrog is right; Powerful Wild Shape is useless, now that Powerful Build works in Wild Shape without the feat.
#62 zombiegleemax Dec 16, 2006 1:35:56	I've updated the guide again, including (or explicitly rejecting) all of the advice except for some of Gharlane's spell advice (the rest of which will be getting into the guide Really Soon Now, I promise). I've still got tons to do, but I think I'll always have tons to do.
#63 imneuromancer Dec 17, 2006 12:21:06	One of my players' characters is taking a Goliath Druid at the moment, so I have been reading up on the various rules that regard them. Optimization-wise, the PHB II shapeshift ability now allows characters with high physical stats to be well-optimized druids. As a matter of fact, shapeshift kinda changes all of the optimization rules for druids in general, since if you want to be good at combat, you should probably have good stats instead of just dumping STR/DEX/CON which the classic pre-errat druid could do. Also, VoP becomes even more important since your gear drops off of you or is melded (lame, but the rules). So now, if your Gm is using the shapeshit rules, a relatively well-optimized build would be something like: Goliath 1/Druid X with VoPoverty for all of its feats and bonuses
#64 ed209 Dec 17, 2006 17:20:42	***SNIP*** Weird: These prestige classes are dramatically different, and mostly beyond the scope of this guide. Arcane Hierophant (RotW) - Wizard/druid blended class. I've never fiddled with this, and I don't think a guide has been written. (If someone has a guide, please point it out to me.) ***SNIP*** ... Since I haven't seen anyone else say anything, I'll venture a paragraph or two. I can't say I've seen a guide either, but a lot of the discussions regarding the Mystic Theurge also apply to the Arcane Hierophant. I'll mention a few of the better known tricks for more rapid advancement and skip the non-druidic divine spellcaster stuff... Arcane Hierophant (RotW) - generally a druid/arcane blended dual-caster PRC. Druid class features (beyond a few low levels ones and Wild shape) are exchanged for a fused Companion Familiar, some limited use channelling of spells through animals & plants, and ten levels of arcane spellcasting. Due to the levels lost to the arcane casting class, this will normally put you a few levels behind a straight druid in terms of divine spellcasting and Wild shape uses, but gives you some serious versatility as a caster. (due to poor writing, there's debate on how it stacks with druid levels for the purpose of determing Wild shape; I'm sticking with the interpretation that any amount of levels stack, not just Druid 5 & above) [indent] Prereqs: non-lawful alignment +4 BAB Knowledge(arcana) 8 & Knowledge(nature) 8 able to cast 2nd level arcane & divine spells Trackless Step class feature Quick advancement feats: Precocious Apprentice (CAdv) - as a 1st level arcane caster, gain one 2nd level spell slot & spell, needing a roll to successfully cast Pros: comes from a WoTC splatbook Cons: virtually useless beyond gaining early entry to dual-caster PRC's; massive [thread=426386]debate[/thread] on legality of use (will not be used in any examples) Southern Magician (Races of Faerûn) - cast divine spells as arcane (& vice versa) a limited number of times per day Pros: far more useful than Precocious Apprentice; comes from a WoTC splatbook Cons: feat states that the spell's source of power doesn't change, leaving it up to the DM whether it can be used as hoped, although probably not (will not be used in any examples) [thread=705039]Alternative Source Spell[/thread] (Dragon Magazine #325; check out some of the other feats in that issue) - similar to Southern Magician, swap around arcane & divine spellcasting at -1 caster level for that spell Pros: none of the conflicting text that bogs down Southern Magician, easier prereqs, no limits to use per day, no debates yet that it works Cons: not all DM's allow material from Dragon Magazine Complementary dual-caster PRC's: Mystic Theurge (DMG) - the original and best known of the dual-casters Pros: easy low level prereqs Cons: no class features to speak of (detrimental to Wild shape in large doses) Fochluchan Lyrist (CAdv) - far more popular than the Mystic Theurge, although possibly far more abused Pros: full BAB, druids Unbound from armor restrictions Cons: virtually bard only class features (detrimental to Wild shape in large doses), hard to fulfill prereqs, usually only playable in high level games (will not be used in any examples) Green Whisperer (Dragon Magazine #311) - a very specific 5 level bard/druid dual-caster PRC Pros: easy low level prereqs Cons: mostly bard only class features; not all DM's allow material from Dragon Magazine Builds: For the arcane side, I'm limiting it to wizard (faster progression than sorcerer, larger list than the newer base classes, although Nar Demonbinder would definitely be in the running) & bard. (due to Green Whisperer & Sublime Chord) Let's start with some of the non-cheesy builds first. Druid 4/Wizard 3/Arcane Hierophant 10/Druid +3 17th level Wild shape, 17th level divine caster (9th level spells), 13th level arcane (7th level spells), 13 BAB Druid 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 2/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge +2 13th level Wild shape, 17th level divine caster (9th level spells), 17th level arcane (9th level spells), 12 BAB Druid 4/Bard 1/Green Whisperer 3/Arcane Hierophant 10/Druid +2 16th level Wild shape, 19th level divine caster (9th level spells), 13th level arcane (5th level spells), 13 BAB Druid 4/Bard 1/Green Whisperer 3/Arcane Hierophant 10/Green Whisperer +2 14th level Wild shape, 19th level divine caster (9th level spells), 16th level arcane (6th level spells), 13 BAB Druid 4/Bard 1/Green Whisperer 3/Arcane Hierophant 3/Sublime Chord 2/Arcane Hierophant +7 14th level Wild shape, 17th level divine caster (9th level spells), 16th level arcane (9th level spells), 13 BAB Wizard 1/Druid 6/Arcane Hierophant 10/Druid +3 (using druid for arcane prereq via [thread=705039]Alternative Source Spell[/thread]) 19th level Wild shape, 19th level divine caster (9th level spells), 11th level arcane (6th level spells), 13 BAB Wizard 1/Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 4/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge +2 (using druid for arcane prereq via [thread=705039]Alternative Source Spell[/thread]) 13th level Wild shape, 19th level divine caster (9th level spells), 17th level arcane (9th level spells), 12 BAB Bard 1/Druid 8/Arcane Hierophant 1/Sublime Chord 1/Arcane Hierophant +9 (using druid for arcane prereq via [thread=705039]Alternative Source Spell[/thread]) 18th level Wild shape, 18th level divine caster (9th level spells), 12th level arcane (9th level spells), 13 BAB Other notes: Arcane Strike should help make up for some of the slower Wild shape progressions. Of the builds, I feel #5 is the most balanced between power, playability & lack of cheese, and that #8 gives up the least to a straight druid for the most return. [/indent]
#65 Gharlane Dec 21, 2006 1:49:11	Re: Kelpstrand The 'DC' is not low - you're making a standard grapple check (1d20 + BAB) but adding your Wisdom instead of your Strength and your Caster Level instead of your Size. In other words, you have a pretty good chance of grappling anything. Dreamsight (Spell) - Ghostform for druids, although you'll need to protect your helpless body. 100 ft. movement as an incorporeal being will make you an awesome scout. This spell is not on the Druid list. It can only be cast by those with the Dream domain. Re: Level 4 animal companion The Ape is also a good choice. It will greatly outdamage the crocodile when making a full attack and it has 10 foot reach. The Fleshraker needs one of the those 'only if your DM is silly enough to allow it' disclaimers.
#66 zombiegleemax Dec 21, 2006 11:43:40	Ask Wizards has clarified that the crocodile is a 1st level animal companion choice: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061202a Which makes the crocodile an excellent 1st level animal companion
#67 votan Dec 23, 2006 12:33:19	Hey, A good, very good 4th lvl spell from the Spell Compendium is: Vortex of Teeth. A area force spell that can hit anything, great area effect, duration and is a big blender that can eat almost anything ( save for certain SR-enemies). The spell Quill Blast is mentioned earlier( see below). As written here it appears to be a good 5th lvl spell but when I read it in the Spell Compendium, it's not as strong as given below. Your enemies only get a -1 penalty on AC, Attacks and saves. The quills don't stack ( each quill a -1 penalty), it is said. Or am I wrong?? Besides that I've got a small question. I'm at the moment a 12th level druid and my party and I are on the plane of shadow ( just entered, and "on the way to Shar" ). What can I do as an allround druid to be effective against shadow creatures on this plane. Shapechange into a plant/animal or spells (max. 6th lvl)?. My feats are (maily) based on summoning, natural bond(companion) etc. Anybody any good ideas on this? Still got one feat to choose ( but which one...?, to many good choices) **""Quill Blast (CD) - Hilariously, ridiculously, hideously broken spell. Everything within the area of effect suddenly loses all ability to hit things in combat and all resistance to spells, and takes a pile of damage besides. Maximize it (particularly with Sudden Maximize or a Maximizing Metamagic Rod) for extra silly brokenness""** Quill Blast appears to have been errated in the Spell Compendium. Which is good because large opponents were completely destroyed by this spell before. It was quite possible to hit two giants at once and watch as they both took about -11 to all attack roles and saves. It would take 11 rounds of doing even more damage to themselves to take the Quills out. Not fantastic against small opponents but it was never a bad spell to cast if you could figure out how to get your party out of the area of effect (or, for sicekning tricks, scuplt spell was vicious). Now it is balanced to weak attack spell and battlemages no longer slowly cry wishing that they too had the good spells of a druid.
#68 AZNsupermarket Dec 23, 2006 13:39:53	few things: 1) I would add dragonborn of bahamut to the list of possible races. A buomon who becomes a dragonborn of bahamut has the following stats: +2 wis +2 con -2 cha -2 dex and no LA. RAW they would also lose their vow of silence. That makes them a damn good druid 2) list of all races with bonus to wis and LA +0 in case you want a more complete list: Anthropomorphic Bat: -4 Str +6 Wis -2 Cha, small, 5 ft. (fly 20 ft. average), blindsense (ex), druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Lizard: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 20 ft., druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Monkey: -4 Str +2 Dex +4Wis -2 Cha, small, 30 ft., druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Rat: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 15 ft., rogue, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Raven: -6 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 10 ft. (fly 30ft. poor), rogue, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Toad: -4 Str -2 Dex +6 Wis -2 Cha, small, 5 ft., cleric, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Weasel: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 20 ft., attach (ex), druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Jermlaine: -6 Str +6 Dex -2 Con -2 Int +6 Wis -6 Cha, tiny, 40 ft., rogue, fey, monster manual 2 pg.131 Buomman: +2 Wis -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., monk, humanoid (buomman, extraplanar), planar handbook pg.08 "Lesser" Aasimar +2 Wis +2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., light (sp), paladin, humanoid (planetouched), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 3) Another good race to list is a dragonwrought kobold. In races of the dragon, it says that they no longer gain penalties, but still gain the bonuses for increasing age categories. 4) You should probably add Constrictor Snake (MM 3.5 pg 280) to the list of good grapplers. I don't know too much about this, but I have been assured that they were one of the best wildshaping grapplers (using pre-errata rules at least) - http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=1035854&postcount=5
#69 zombiegleemax Dec 24, 2006 2:42:42	Extract Water Elemental (SC) - Horrific but effective, kill opponent and gain a water elemental This is stylish, but not really powerful. d6/level damage is a waste of a 6th level slot, and nothing worth turning into an elemental is going to have sufficiently low HP to kill with this spell. One of my players' characters is taking a Goliath Druid at the moment, so I have been reading up on the various rules that regard them. Optimization-wise, the PHB II shapeshift ability now allows characters with high physical stats to be well-optimized druids. As a matter of fact, shapeshift kinda changes all of the optimization rules for druids in general, since if you want to be good at combat, you should probably have good stats instead of just dumping STR/DEX/CON which the classic pre-errat druid could do. Also, VoP becomes even more important since your gear drops off of you or is melded (lame, but the rules). Use-activated gear is still huge, and VOP means no Shapechange. Anyway, Arismir's Shapeshift Druid guide covers SS Druids in greater detail than this one, and I don't plan to substantially duplicate his good work. ... Since I haven't seen anyone else say anything, I'll venture a paragraph or two. I can't say I've seen a guide either, but a lot of the discussions regarding the Mystic Theurge also apply to the Arcane Hierophant. I'll mention a few of the better known tricks for more rapid advancement and skip the non-druidic divine spellcaster stuff... Cool, I'll summarize and link this post. Thanks! Quill Blast appears to have been errated in the Spell Compendium. Yup, and I've already noted this in the guide. Thanks for the heads up, though! Lots of sharp stuff I'll add it to the list of stuff I need to fix. (I think I just misread the Dreamsight thing.) Thank you for all the copyediting and stuff; this is a big help. would add dragonborn of bahamut... RAW they would also lose their vow of silence. How the heck does that work? Also, Dragonborn are RODr, right? list of all races with bonus to wis and LA +0 in case you want a more complete list: Cool, I'll add this to the guide. Another good race to list is a dragonwrought kobold. In races of the dragon, it says that they no longer gain penalties, but still gain the bonuses for increasing age categories. I kind of want to keep this guide practical. Sitting around to get old generally isn't practical. You should probably add Constrictor Snake (MM 3.5 pg 280) to the list of good grapplers. Holy crap I've totally misread Constrict (although that thread is pre-Polymorph errata). That's totally retarded how awesome it is. Yeah, gonna have to totally redo the grappling wild shape section.
#70 fallfromgrace Dec 24, 2006 3:22:26	How the heck does that work? According to the "Mechanics of Rebirth" on page 10 of RotD, dragonborn characters lose some racial traits when they are reborn. There is a list of what kind of traits are kept, and by RAW the Buomman's vow of silence doesn't belong to any of them... ;)
#71 zombiegleemax Dec 24, 2006 3:50:08	My notes are now updated for all the easy stuff that people have suggested. The grappling WS form section needs a lot of revising; I'll post an update sometime soon.
#72 AZNsupermarket Dec 24, 2006 11:59:03	According to the "Mechanics of Rebirth" on page 10 of RotD, dragonborn characters lose some racial traits when they are reborn. There is a list of what kind of traits are kept, and by RAW the Buomman's vow of silence doesn't belong to any of them... ;) Yep :D Just out of curiosity, did you come to this conclusion before or after you saw my post?
#73 AZNsupermarket Dec 24, 2006 12:19:03	How the heck does that work? Also, Dragonborn are RODr, right? Yep, it's from races of the dragon. FallFromGrace does a good job of explaining it. You don't get much better than a +2 wis +2 con -2 cha -2 dex, medium, 30 land speed, LA +0, with a choice of either flight, or dark/low-light vision and blindsense, or a breath weapon. Cool, I'll add this to the guide. No Problem. Most of the choices are unfortunately retardedly unbalaced. I kind of want to keep this guide practical. Sitting around to get old generally isn't practical. If your DM is dumb enough to allow you to start the game as a venerable dragonwrought kobold you would have the following stats: +2 dex -4 str -2 con +3 int +3 wis +3 cha. No waiting required. Holy crap I've totally misread Constrict (although that thread is pre-Polymorph errata). That's totally retarded how awesome it is. Yeah, gonna have to totally redo the grappling wild shape section. Yea, I know first hand - that poster is a friend of mine, who played a druid in a campaign I once played in LOL. Just make sure that you read through the entire thread because there is some debate toward the end exactly how retardedly awesome improved grab/constrict is. http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=58585
#74 fallfromgrace Dec 24, 2006 13:44:40	Just out of curiosity, did you come to this conclusion before or after you saw my post? I had thought of using Dragonborn to remove negative racial traits (such as the water dependency of the Sea Kin (in RoD)), but not of applying to to the Buomman specifically. My hat is off to you. And thanks to MiB for updating the handbook. :D I'm currently embarking on a project to categorize the magic items of the FR splatbooks, hopefully I'll be able to come up with some suggestions for druids.
#75 AZNsupermarket Dec 24, 2006 14:13:35	I had thought of using Dragonborn to remove negative racial traits (such as the water dependency of the Sea Kin (in RoD)), but not of applying to to the Buomman specifically. My hat is off to you. There aren't too many races with negative traits out there. Neanderthals are good at becoming dragonborn, get rid of illiteracy, and +4 con +2 str -2 int -4 dex LA +0. Ignoring races that lose negative traits when they become dragonborn for a second, elven sub-races make crazy good dragonborn. Examples: Dragonborn Wood Elf +2 str -2 int (I can do everything a half-orc can do, but better) Dragonborn Grey Elf +2 int -2 str Dragonborn Fire Elf +2 int -2 cha
#76 irian Dec 26, 2006 2:00:51	So, I was wondering ehere the debate regarding Shifter vs. Human as a race for a Druid (or Druid/Planar Shepherd) is standing? More Shifter or more Human? :D
#77 irian Dec 26, 2006 2:16:38	Edit: Double Post
#78 fallfromgrace Dec 26, 2006 2:57:26	So, I was wondering ehere the debate regarding Shifter vs. Human as a race for a Druid (or Druid/Planar Shepherd) is standing? More Shifter or more Human? :D Speaking of which... has anybody seen the complication between Humand and Wild shape that has appeared in the FAQ? It says that the bonus skill point and feat of humans is a racial ability that is lost when wild shaping. I don't know if that makes Human a worse race choice now (at least for a Core campaign), but it certainly creates a logistical nightmare... SBS
#79 thomas_covenant Dec 26, 2006 3:51:50	Speaking of which... has anybody seen the complication between Humand and Wild shape that has appeared in the FAQ? It says that the bonus skill point and feat of humans is a racial ability that is lost when wild shaping. I don't know if that makes Human a worse race choice now (at least for a Core campaign), but it certainly creates a logistical nightmare... SBS I thought that was pre-errata info, and questionable at best. The alternate form lets you retain most of your racial abilities, very different mechanic.
#80 zombiegleemax Dec 27, 2006 3:11:40	I plan to ignore any suggestion that humans lose their skill points and feats when Wild Shaping. This is not consistent with the Polymorph errata, and is just plain insane in both in-universe logic and game logic. So, I was wondering ehere the debate regarding Shifter vs. Human as a race for a Druid (or Druid/Planar Shepherd) is standing? More Shifter or more Human? :D Shifters are spiffier and get Moonspeaker, humans get the resources no druid ever has enough of. Both are good. Personally, I like halflings of any sort. Small size is great at low levels (ride your riding dog!), the sub levels have some nice options, and +1 to saves, an extra feat, or telepathy all cover weaknesses of the druid.
#81 AZNsupermarket Dec 27, 2006 9:20:19	Personally, I like halflings of any sort. Too me, they all seem to pail in comparison to the strongheart halfling (bonus feat ). Human druids have that extra skill point on the stronghearts though. There are a lot of good choices, that why this game is fun.
#82 cannibalsmith Dec 27, 2006 10:17:25	Avoid: Exalted Animal Companion (BoED) - Celestial animals make poor Animal Companions, as the minor benefits don't outweigh the cost of a feat and the penalty level for Animal Companion bonuses. How about an everflanking blink dog? And he's intelligent and has language. So you can give it complex tasks. Add Exalted Wildshape and it gets Dimension Door crazy. And what about 1d3 or 1d4+1 tiny vipers for Summon Nature's Ally II and III respectively? Forcing several Fort saves from a target vs 1d4 Con damage not good enough?
#83 zombiegleemax Dec 27, 2006 23:23:06	Too me, they all seem to pail in comparison to the strongheart halfling (bonus feat ). Human druids have that extra skill point on the stronghearts though. There are a lot of good choices, that why this game is fun. Ghostwise have telepathy, though, which is huge. Plus, if you can't use FR cheese, the regular halfling is still great. How about an everflanking blink dog? And he's intelligent and has language. So you can give it complex tasks. I'll give this one some thought. Blink Dogs aren't terribly super (they're sort of wimpy if you make the miss chance), but DDoor is still incredibly handy. The Exalted Companion forms deserve a second thought, though, since they're intelligent. I'll benchmark them against typical forms again. And what about 1d3 or 1d4+1 tiny vipers for Summon Nature's Ally II and III respectively? Forcing several Fort saves from a target vs 1d4 Con damage not good enough? They tend to die to AoOs when they try to attack (0' reach sucks), and tend to miss even when they do survive. Plus, they're total Cleave bait.
#84 cannibalsmith Dec 28, 2006 1:33:32	Snakes tend to die to AoOs when they try to attack (0' reach sucks), and tend to miss even when they do survive. Plus, they're total Cleave bait. Can't I summon them already inside the target square? Or above the enemy's head?
#85 zombiegleemax Dec 28, 2006 2:03:49	-double post-
#86 zombiegleemax Dec 28, 2006 2:02:45	Can't I summon them already inside the target square? Don't see why not. Or above the enemy's head? Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them. Barring overrated cult films, snakes don't fly. I don't see why you'd summon vipers instead of crocodiles. Vipers aren't strictly bad, but there are few foes who would be vulnerable to a handful of vipers that have any hope against a crocodile.
#87 zombiegleemax Dec 30, 2006 1:57:54	It also occurs to me that it'd be trivially easy to just walk away from the vipers if they don't hit first turn, since 0' reach means no threatened area whatsoever.
#88 irian Dec 30, 2006 3:50:48	Ghostwise have telepathy, though, which is huge. BTW: Are there other ways other than items and race to get communication while wildshaping. I guess there's no feat you can take?
#89 cannibalsmith Dec 30, 2006 3:57:00	Learn the language of blink dogs and make your party do so, then pick Exalted Wildshape. Tongues on self while blink-dog-shaped might also work.
#90 zombiegleemax Dec 30, 2006 11:15:10	I'm a druid and I was wondering if I could have a dragon as a pet. If yes what kind of dragon? Thank you.
#91 cannibalsmith Dec 30, 2006 14:00:49	Dragon Cohort (Draconomicon). It's impossible for a straight druid to have a dragon as an animal companion. But if you become an Arcane Hierophant you can qualify for Dragon Familiar (Draconomicon). In that case your dragon is a familiar-companion hybrid.
#92 irian Dec 31, 2006 8:46:15	Learn the language of blink dogs and make your party do so, then pick Exalted Wildshape. Tongues on self while blink-dog-shaped might also work. Thanks! Though I have to admit I was hoping for something ... less difficult ;)
#93 cannibalsmith Dec 31, 2006 9:35:12	Your DM might protest, but the description of Tongues does not say that you must be capable of speech at all to benefit from the spell. It says "This spell grants the creature touched the ability to speak and understand the language of any intelligent creature [..]". So you might do without any crazy feats. And grab Dragon Wildshape (Draconomicon) if you can! Dragons, among other things, can speak. Man in Black, what do you think about Tongues?
#94 zombiegleemax Dec 31, 2006 18:16:11	BTW: Are there other ways other than items and race to get communication while wildshaping. I guess there's no feat you can take? Well, you can Wild Shape into something that can talk. Blink Dog w/Exalted Wild Shape has been suggested, and elementals and many plants can talk. I'm a druid and I was wondering if I could have a dragon as a pet. If yes what kind of dragon? Thank you. Sure! Take Leadership or Draconic Cohort (the latter is in Draconomicon), just like any other class. Your DM might protest, but the description of Tongues does not say that you must be capable of speech at all to benefit from the spell. It says "This spell grants the creature touched the ability to speak and understand the language of any intelligent creature [..]". So you might do without any crazy feats. And grab Dragon Wildshape (Draconomicon) if you can! Dragons, among other things, can speak. Man in Black, what do you think about Tongues? Wowee. That's is awesome. It's a shame druids don't get it, but that's going to go into the guide, definitely. The only limitation I can see: The subject can make itself understood as far as its voice carries. Make sure your form has a mouth and some way to vocalize.
#95 zombiegleemax Jan 01, 2007 11:11:59	Dragon Cohort (Draconomicon). It's impossible for a straight druid to have a dragon as an animal companion. But if you become an Arcane Hierophant you can qualify for Dragon Familiar (Draconomicon). In that case your dragon is a familiar-companion hybrid. But I thought there was a feat which grands druid a magical beast as an animeal companion, can't this be a dragon? (sorry but I'm newbie)...
#96 cannibalsmith Jan 01, 2007 11:19:12	Dragons are not magical beasts.
#97 zombiegleemax Jan 01, 2007 11:31:19	LOOOOOOOOOL you are right! So there is no way i can have a dragon... Thank you anyway!
#98 nightbreeze Jan 01, 2007 13:45:27	Duh? A dragon as a PET? Nope. Maybe as an ally. He would be too cunning. Anyway, this is my personal judgement, and I don't know any sourcebook that grants it. I find it somewhere, feel free to point at me and shout "So, what were you telling me???" ;)
#99 caelic Jan 01, 2007 15:18:21	Dragon Cohort (Draconomicon). It's impossible for a straight druid to have a dragon as an animal companion. But if you become an Arcane Hierophant you can qualify for Dragon Familiar (Draconomicon). In that case your dragon is a familiar-companion hybrid. I don't think that actually works. If I'm remembering AH right, it's specifically your animal companion that becomes your familiar/companion hybrid...not your familiar.
#100 cannibalsmith Jan 01, 2007 23:46:41	I don't think that actually works. If I'm remembering AH right, it's specifically your animal companion that becomes your familiar/companion hybrid...not your familiar. You're right.
#101 cannibalsmith Jan 02, 2007 8:01:56	Another solution to wildshape speech: Medallion of Thought Projection! For measly 1800 gp it grants you telepathy out to 60 ft with the following limitations:
#102 doobiusportugal_dup Jan 02, 2007 16:02:39	How about echo skull (SpC) for speech? Would it work?
#103 zombiegleemax Jan 02, 2007 18:39:12	How about echo skull (SpC) for speech? Would it work? Up to your GM. It's ambiguously worded.
#104 hogarth Jan 02, 2007 19:11:11	BTW: Are there other ways other than items and race to get communication while wildshaping. I guess there's no feat you can take? I once had a druid who used an Item Familiar (as per the feat in Unearthed Arcana) to speak for her. It sort of worked, and it's one of the best feats around if you can sneak it by your DM.
#105 rasmfrackn Jan 06, 2007 15:12:35	First off thanks to everyone who had a hand in the previous handbook(s), and especially to MiB for picking it back up just when I need it. :D I just started playing again 2 months ago (almost exactly coincident with this repost) after a few campaigns under 3.0 and the original splat books, decided on a Druid, and then came to the boards here for insight. I look forward to the point at which everything is fleshed out and up-to-speed with the errata, but I wanted to get a little help and this seemed the place. My DM wants a pure-core game, which is sort of nice because I can 1-stop-shop on the SRD for reference. However, he seems to want to impose some extra restrictions on wildshape... to the tune of all equipment is still "present" when wildshaped. This includes armor check penalties, proficiency penalties, *weight*, etc. Obviously this came up when I mentioned Wild armors and what would carry over and what wouldn't. I ended up taking 1 level of monk for the free grapple feat, wis-to-ac, flurry if I can make it work, and some RP reasons. Which of the lv 1 monk abilities can can carry over to wildshaping? Of course I was hopeful that I could both wear Wild armor and also keep my wis-to-AC ability while wildshaped, which he's currently disallowed. It's just that the logic chain always leads me back to the result that the armor must entirely disappear, which would then mean that I would retain my monk bonuses. Basically, if my equipment is still "present", then when I can wildshape into a tiny animal such as a raven, I'm basically immobile and unable to do anything if I was wearing anything before I changed, with my tiny size and 1 str. Do I really need to drop everything I'm carrying and strip down before I can become a "real-sized" flighted bird in order to do my bird things? I was hoping to end up with a nice wild fullplate set of some material, since I'm going to be as much of a frontliner as the party has (another reason I'd really like to get my wildshaping as rules-empowered as possible). Apparently I'll be stumbling around awkwardly as a bear if I'm not proficient in heavy armor, though. Is RAW clear on that one way or the other? Should I pick up the feat since my core options past Natural Spell are basically metamagics, or stick with a breastplate? I can't help but wonder if that means I'd be restricted to a dex bonus of 1 in fullplate, even in animal form... I need to ask that. Also, dragonhide seems druid-friendly, but is there any point to it over, say, darkwood? Half the weight seems like a boon for any point in time where I'm not shifted, or apparently when I'm in a form that doesn't have huge strength. I'm trying to work out the logistics of wearing my wild armor when I dumped an 8 into my base str. I'm just trying to figure out if I'm in an unreasonable position and if there's any RAW points that I can argue from. We're very by-the-book, let-the-dice-decide-who-dies, so it sort of surprised me that he put down a houseruling on this. Thanks for any insight.
#106 cannibalsmith Jan 06, 2007 16:11:07	First, by RAW, your encumbrance remains. The DM doesn't need to house rule that. Second, druids may not wear metallic armor, hide armor sucks, and dragonhide is not a good idea. So leather armor it is. It has no armor penalties, so... but you picked a level of monk so it actually does not concern you at all! So, where's the problem?
#107 rasmfrackn Jan 06, 2007 16:46:09	First, by RAW, your encumbrance remains. The DM doesn't need to house rule that. Is that in the errata somewhere that I missed? The MoMF guide definitely mentions the elephant->lift heavy object->bird->fly away sequence. That would imply weight and encumberance do not carry over through a shift. So you're saying that if I'm carrying a quarterstaff and wildshape into a raven, those 4 lbs put me into a medium load and I can't fly? Or is it that carrying 45 lbs with my 8 str, which puts me into a medium load, then implies that my dire bear is under a medium load with its 31 str? Second, druids may not wear metallic armor I wasn't implying that they could, but you can create heavy armors out of non-metals. ... and dragonhide is not a good idea. Why? You're not going to start sending ticked off dragons after my party just for wearing it, are you? :D So, where's the problem? I'm just trying to clearly understand how equipment works with wildshape, the monk armor bonus, Wild modifiers, etc. and how to best boost my AC to get the most out of my melee. Most melee-druid builds I've seen advocate wild dragonhide fullplate + shield, which seems like it would be a major hinderance if the rules are as my DM claims.
#108 cannibalsmith Jan 07, 2007 3:30:40	The MoMF guide definitely mentions the elephant->lift heavy object->bird->fly away sequence. That would imply weight and encumberance do not carry over through a shift. Okay, I concede. I can't answer this question. Buy a Handy Haversack. I wasn't implying that they could, but you can create heavy armors out of non-metals. Druids are not proficient with heavy armor; and spending a feat on that is a waste. Medium and heavy armors also reduce your speed. Why? You're not going to start sending ticked off dragons after my party just for wearing it, are you? :D Me? I'm not your DM. I'm just warning you. I'm just trying to clearly understand how equipment works with wildshape, the monk armor bonus, Wild modifiers, etc. and how to best boost my AC to get the most out of my melee. But you said you took a level in monk! Anyway, you are wildshaped in combat, so armor doesn't work. Outside of combat armor doesn't matter.
#109 nessaj Jan 07, 2007 9:13:46	Elven Darkleaf/LeafWeave from the Arms and Armaments Guide is probably one of the best Armor materials, if it hasn't already been mentioned in the guide. Darkleaf is made into Armors that are normally metal, and Leafweave, from any Light Armor that normally isn't. Fairly pricey, but both raise the max Dex by 1 and reduce armor check by 2. On Druids...Few classes can match their versatility. Granted, my experience with them is in an extremely high-powered campaign but the fact is, a druid can be anything they want to be, depending on their spell selection. One day they might choose to be the cleric of the group, another, the blaster, and another, the scout, and again, the melee warrior. Given a slow day, they can easily be all four. As I said, my Druid experience IS somewhat one-sided, given how cracked out my game is. Gestault Druid 16//Scout11/Warshaper5. With ANY book at his disposal. He has a fun feat from Mongoose Publishing that allow him to retain his gear in Wild Shape for maximum cheese factor. Nothing worse than a Legendary Ape with a +2 Darkleaf Breastplate and a host of other magic items throwing out Quickened Flamestrikes after a full attack. And he hasn't even tried the combination transformation rules yet :rolleyes Druids: The one-person party
#110 dirkformica Jan 08, 2007 15:33:40	What are some relatively painless ways for a Druid to gain Turn/Rebuke Undead for use with Divine Metamagic cheese? The Bite of the ... line seems to scream out for persistent buffs. Sacred Exorcist from Complete Divine was my first thought but how do you get Dispel Evil or Dismissal? With my limited number of books I'm only seeing some kind of Arcane Hierophant build but that will lose Druidic abilities and SE entry would be greatly delayed. Any ideas? Edited to add a note about a Plant Wildshape that was incorrectly listed in the old thread and not listed in this new one: In Monster Manual III there is a Large Plant, 15 HD called the Night Twist (I think this was labeled Death Twist in the old thread and at 12 HD.) It doesn't have a lot of special things going for it in the Ex attack area, but it has 39 Str, Dex 6, Con 29, +15 Natural Armor, a terrible 10 ft. movement, but interestingly it is listed as having a 20 ft. reach. It is also able to speak. And if you can somehow get its Supernatural abilities it has Unholy Grace for Cha to saves and as deflection bonus to AC amongst other SU abilities.
#111 thecobra Jan 09, 2007 15:58:46	It requires Spell Focus (Conjuration), which is nearly worthless Why do people keep saying this? With all the spells on the druid list now, Spell Focus (Conjuration) is a fine feat. It boosts the DCs of great damage spells like deadfall and bombardment, as well as number of other higher-level spells. At lower levels, it affects icelance , murderous mist, rushing waters, quill blast, and arc of lightning. It also affects any healing spell you use on undead. Celestial animals make poor Animal Companions, as the minor benefits don't outweigh the cost of a feat and the penalty level for Animal Companion bonuses. I don't know if it's worth a feat, but the -1 level penalty is almost negligible. The benefits of being celestial aren't bad. Just beating DR/magic all the time can be pretty useful. Smiting and SR are cool. Finally, boosting the companion's INT to 3 should make it much easier to give it complicated commands. Seems worth it as free exalted feat from VoP. As far as elemental wildshape goes, I think it rocks. Getting a whole pile of feats like that is amazing. It's not the best for smashing, no, but nothing beats a huge air elemental when you want to win initiative and throw spells. And fly 100 (perfect) is great for getting around. Also, the elemental heart spells from Complete Mage should be on your list. They're great.
#112 zombiegleemax Jan 10, 2007 19:11:57	My DM wants a pure-core game, which is sort of nice because I can 1-stop-shop on the SRD for reference. However, he seems to want to impose some extra restrictions on wildshape... to the tune of all equipment is still "present" when wildshaped. RAW, it all melds into your body, which means it disappears and is nonfunctional. If your GM is worried about encumbrance, why not just restrict you to not being able to Wild Shape while wearing armor you're not proficient in or carrying heavy loads? Seems to solve the problem (which is a real corner-case kind of thing) easily.
#113 zombiegleemax Jan 10, 2007 19:15:25	Why do people keep saying this? With all the spells on the druid list now, Spell Focus (Conjuration) is a fine feat. It boosts the DCs of great damage spells like deadfall and bombardment, as well as number of other higher-level spells. At lower levels, it affects icelance , murderous mist, rushing waters, quill blast, and arc of lightning. It also affects any healing spell you use on undead. Um. Some of those (errataed Quill Blast comes immediately to mind) sort of suck. SF(Conj) is still pretty sub-par, but I think I'll tone back the "ZOMG THIS FEAT IS TEH SCUK" language. I don't know if it's worth a feat, but the -1 level penalty is almost negligible. The benefits of being celestial aren't bad. Just beating DR/magic all the time can be pretty useful. Smiting and SR are cool. Finally, boosting the companion's INT to 3 should make it much easier to give it complicated commands. Someone brought this up above; I need to change the mention of Cel. WS. As far as elemental wildshape goes, I think it rocks. Getting a whole pile of feats like that is amazing. It's not the best for smashing, no, but nothing beats a huge air elemental when you want to win initiative and throw spells. And fly 100 (perfect) is great for getting around. You don't get the feats any more, after the Poly errata. Also, the elemental heart spells from Complete Mage should be on your list. They're great. I need to get a copy of CM.
#114 zombiegleemax Jan 10, 2007 22:06:12	Great thread.. (and previous threads) I bought my 1st players handbook V3.5 three weeks ago when i was invited to play with some friends. THX for helping me catch up
#115 friendlyfrog Jan 11, 2007 3:36:47	You don't get the feats any more, after the Poly errata. Actually you do. The PHB says that you do get the elementals feats whan talking of Elemental wild shape, and the errata didn't overrule this text, so it stays as an exception. From the SRD (errata's are inclunded in it): At 16th level, a druid becomes able to use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium, or Large elemental (air, earth, fire, or water) once per day. These elemental forms are in addition to her normal wild shape usage. In addition to the normal effects of wild shape, the druid gains all the elemental’s extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities. She also gains the elemental’s feats for as long as she maintains the wild shape, but she retains her own creature type. And BTW, it says feats, meaning all feats, not only racial bonus feats. :D
#116 jameswilliamogle Jan 11, 2007 9:57:40	What are some relatively painless ways for a Druid to gain Turn/Rebuke Undead for use with Divine Metamagic cheese? The Bite of the ... line seems to scream out for persistent buffs. Sacred Exorcist from Complete Divine was my first thought but how do you get Dispel Evil or Dismissal? With my limited number of books I'm only seeing some kind of Arcane Hierophant build but that will lose Druidic abilities and SE entry would be greatly delayed. The easiest way is Cleric 1. I'm not sure of many other ways to get turn undead easily (Sacred Exorcist works ok for Arcane Hieromphants, though). Cleric 1 doesn't lose you too many abilities from a Druid, either, but just slows you down a bit. I'm using a Cleric 1 / Druid 31 in a powergame, and took Planning and Undeath as my domains, along w/ the normal cheese. At high level, Persistant Stormrage after casting Shambler a few times really rocks (but of course I have per Bite of the Werebear and a few other buffs as well).
#117 ethendril_dup Jan 12, 2007 13:03:01	First off, a special thanks to MiB and those who have done this before him. It's a tremendous resource that I use frequently. On a personal note, I've never played a druid in the past (since the first box set I played when I was eight), and I'm now playing a shifter druid I've taken to eight level. He's my favorite character ever. Druids are fantastic. One section I'd like to see some more information on is the magic items section. I guess I'm not sure what magic items I can use in wild shape form with the new polymorph errata. I'm planning to purchase wilding armor, but what other items can I use in wild shape? I'd love to see two sections: 1) which items can I wear in wild shape that will shift back and forth with me as I change forms? 2) which items can I wear if I dress up after I'm already in wild shape? I'm most interested in all the magic items I can wear all the time that will always change with me. Anyway, thanks again for the guide, and I'd appreciate any help in this area.
#118 cannibalsmith Jan 12, 2007 14:08:39	1) Armor with wild ability. But I hear it's not worth it. Nothing else exists, afaik. 2) Take shape of an ape and wear whatever you want.
#119 AZNsupermarket Jan 12, 2007 14:24:58	First off, a special thanks to MiB and those who have done this before him. It's a tremendous resource that I use frequently. On a personal note, I've never played a druid in the past (since the first box set I played when I was eight), and I'm now playing a shifter druid I've taken to eight level. He's my favorite character ever. Druids are fantastic. One section I'd like to see some more information on is the magic items section. I guess I'm not sure what magic items I can use in wild shape form with the new polymorph errata. I'm planning to purchase wilding armor, but what other items can I use in wild shape? I'd love to see two sections: 1) which items can I wear in wild shape that will shift back and forth with me as I change forms? 2) which items can I wear if I dress up after I'm already in wild shape? I'm most interested in all the magic items I can wear all the time that will always change with me. Anyway, thanks again for the guide, and I'd appreciate any help in this area. Wildling Clasps allows you to keep items while wildshaped
#120 ethendril_dup Jan 12, 2007 15:56:08	So the only magic item slots I can keep all the time are the armor slot (wilding armor) and the neck slot (with a wilding clasp)?
#121 caelic Jan 12, 2007 15:59:55	By the rules, yes--but remember that some items aren't "on your person" (like Ioun Stones) and thus remain functional.
#122 jameswilliamogle Jan 12, 2007 16:02:58	Animated Heavy Wooden Shields work well. One way to get around this is to see if your DM would allow you to apply custom Wild enhancements, as armor, on some of the more valuable equipment. Also, have your buddies re-equip you w/ magic items after you change (unfortunately, only a handful of creatures have explicit item slots in the rules: dragons (draconomicon) and a few aberrations (lords of madness), both of which require feats to wildshape into).
#123 ethendril_dup Jan 12, 2007 17:08:28	Cool...thanks for the responses so far. MiB asked for some help with the equipment section, so I'll go ahead and start our list of items druids can use in wild shape then: Equipment a druid can wear in wildshape: 1. One headband, hat, helmet, or phylactery on the head: None 2. One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck: Periapt of wisdom +6 (or other neckwear of choice on a wilding clasp...though note that wilding clasp is 3.0 only, and may not be allowed in all campaigns) 3. One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso None 4. One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt): +5 Wild armor (probably darkleaf or serpentscale breastplate armor) 5. One belt around the waist (over a robe or suit of armor): None 6. One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor): None 7. One pair of bracers or bracelets on the arms or wrists: None 8. One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands: None 9. One ring on each hand (or two rings on one hand): None 10. One pair of boots or shoes on the feet: None Equipment not on your person (and thus "functional"): 1. +5 Animated Darkwood Heavy Shield (Animated counts as +2, energy resistances are nice for the other enhancements, possibly defending shield spikes) 2. Ioun Stone (orange or other); 3. Stone of Good Luck (Luckstone); 4. Bead of Karma (From Strand of Prayer Beads); Other handy druid equipment and buffs 1. Permanent Greater Magic Fang from a lvl 20 caster (pretty cost-effective buff, must do it for each form of natural attack, such as claw, bite, slam, etc.); 2. Rods of metamagic (use pre-combat to extend buffs); 3. Wand of lesser vigor; 4. Tome of Understanding +5; 5. Non-humanoid armor for use in wildshape forms (before you get wild armor, probably leatherscale); 6. Handy Haversack; 7. Wand of mage armor for your group's arcanist to cast this handy buff on you and/or your animal companion. 8. Mouthpick weapons (LoM) are silly but useful in Wild Shape. 9. Shifter Braid of Spellstrike (RoE) gives you a quickened buff of third level or less for 500 gp a use, if you're a shifter. 10. A Vestment of Verminshape (DMG2) lets you take vermin Wild Shapes. Vermin sort of suck, though. 11. Magical Locations, mentioned in DMG2 and later books, are nice for druids, since they don't go away when you Wild Shape. Garden of Nature's Rage (DMG2) gives a Wild Shape-specific boost, for what it's worth. 12. Apply contact poison to your natural attacks before entering combat...you're immune after 9th level, after all. Any other must-have druid equipment? Maybe we could all help MiB (and me!) get a list of magic items the rules allow druids to keep all the time... EDIT: I'm trying to incorporate other suggestions, and I've added what MiB had in his equipment section, too.
#124 MaximumHavoc Jan 12, 2007 17:26:52	Suggestions (or even total rewrites of sections, if you want) are greatly appreciated May I suggest that your latest updates be written in red type, similar to how WoTC handles its errata? For us frequent visitors to your handbook, it would be most convenient to pinpoint exactly what language is new. Also, identifying the date of your latest update would be helpful. Kudos on the handbook, btw.
#125 wolfwood2 Jan 16, 2007 15:15:43	2. One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck: Periapt of wisdom +6 (or other neckwear of choice on a wilding clasp) Wilding clasps are 3.0 and as fas as I know have never been seen in 3.5. Given the number of wildshape clarifications, revisions, and restrictions since then, I don't count on them being allowed. Still, pretty much any of the above can be worn by taking it off and redonning it after wildshaping. 4. One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt): +5 Wild armor (probably darkleaf or serpentscale breastplate armor; wild counts as +3, what should the other two enhancements be?) Anything other than an enchancement bonus to AC and the base armor bonus will not be active while wildshaped. Check the wording of the Wild property. Equipment not on your person (and thus "functional"): 1. +5 Animated Darkwood Heavy Shield (Animated counts as +2, ideas for the other 3 enhancements?) I'd spend money piling on the energy resistances. Any other must-have druid equipment? Maybe we could all help MiB (and me!) get a list of magic items the rules allow druids to keep all the time... Wand of Mage Armor. Sure you can't use it, but your group arcanist can use it for you, on you, and no complaints about giving up spell slots. Your Companion too. Nice for low levels, until you get around to buying that Wild Armor.
#126 ethendril_dup Jan 16, 2007 17:01:50	Thanks for the feedback, wolfwood. I'm going to edit my post to reflect what you mentioned on wild armor, energy resistances, and the wand of mage armor. As for the wilding clasp and 3.0, isn't it standard opt. board practice to allow anything in builds that either 1)is 3.5, or 2) is 3.0, but hasn't been updated yet? Still, pretty much any of the above can be worn by taking it off and redonning it after wildshaping. I'm trying to focus on equipment that you've always got available. At least in the games I've played with my druid, I often change form during combat or right when I see when we're up against, so I'm trying to steer away from items that I can't use all the time.
#127 thecobra Jan 16, 2007 17:44:32	Um. Some of those (errataed Quill Blast comes immediately to mind) sort of suck. It's not that bad. It's another to give a penalty to saves, which is always useful. And I only listed the lower-level spells that benefit from the feat. I agree that many of those aren't amazing, but some of the higher-level ones are. Bombardment is great. You don't get the feats any more, after the Poly errata. Why not? THe errata didn't remove the line that gives you the feats. Remember, it works as alternate form except as noted here. I'd spend money piling on the energy resistances. Why? Spells take care of that just fine.
#128 AZNsupermarket Jan 16, 2007 20:29:34	As for the wilding clasp and 3.0, isn't it standard opt. board practice to allow anything in builds that either 1)is 3.5, or 2) is 3.0, but hasn't been updated yet? Varies from person to person. It's also important to note that wilding clasps are particularly vague on what body slots it works on. So it's really up to the interpretation of the DM.
#129 arismir Jan 16, 2007 20:49:15	Wilding Clasps are probably one of the hardest items to say what they actually do and are intended for. Even in 3.0, they are hard to figure out exactly how they work. Converting them 3.5, with the many Wildshape erratas makes it even harder to figure out. IMHO, Wilding Clasps should never be used in a campaign. There is just too much confusion and interpretation over them.
#130 part-human2 Jan 16, 2007 22:57:17	Earthmother's Weapons (Druid Spells from the Moonshaes) on WoTC website. I'll quote; Bone Talisman Necromancy Level: Druid 2 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 minute Range: Touch Target: Bone touched Duration: 10 minutes/level or until discharged Saving Throw: None (object) Spell Resistance: No (object) You channel divine power and life energy into a bone from an animal or humanoid, giving it limited power against undead. Once cast, it may be used for two purposes (decided at the time of casting). Bone of Turning: You or another druid may present the bone in the manner of a holy symbol and use it to turn undead. The effective turning level is equal to your caster level. All normal turning effects apply. For example, if your turning level is twice the Hit Dice of the turned undead, they are destroyed instead of turned. After one turn attempt, the bone talisman loses its power (but you can cast the spell on it again). Bone Weapon: The bone is treated as a weapon that deals +1d6 damage to undead creatures, similar to but weaker than an undead bane effect. The bone is treated as a simple weapon appropriate to its shape, such as dagger or dart (small and sharp), club (if large and blunt), or spear (if small and sharp and fastened to a haft) and deals normal damage for its type. The spell does not grant proficiency in the weapon. The spell is not discharged when the weapon hits and this aspect of the spell lasts until the full duration (10 minutes/level) expires. The spell has no effect if you cast it on a bone taken from an undead creature. The bone must be at least 8 inches long and may be straight or curved; normally bones from the arm, leg, or ribs are used. You may carve, drill, or otherwise shape the bone before or after the spell is cast; the spell functions as long as the bone remains bone (not turned to wood or metal, for example).
#131 wolfwood2 Jan 17, 2007 12:38:15	Elemental Companion Class Feature The Complete Mage (of all places) introduces a new option for druids who aren't so fond of animals. As an alternate class feature, a druid can trade in his regular animal companion for an elemental companion. I'd like to look at the pros and cons in more detail. I'm working from memory at the moment, so please excuse any mistakes. Requirements: This class feature is taken at first level. It requires a druid to have 1 rank in Knowledge: Planes (a cross-class skill) and speak the elemental language of the type of elemental companion he wishes to have. Note: It is unclear to me if a druid can freely change between types of elementals by dismissing his current elemental companion and spending 24 hours in prayer to summon a new one of the appropriate type, or if you are stuck with your first level choice. If the latter, knowing all four elemental languages would be a valuable investment. Benefits: At 1st level, a druid loses his Animal Companion and Wild Empathy class features. In return, he gains a Small Elemental of the appropriate type for the elemental language he speaks. This elemental does not gain most features of an animal companion. It does get the Share Spells ability. At 4th level, the Elemental increases to medium size, with all the standard stats for a medium elemental. At 10th level it either becomes a Large Elemental, or remains Medium gains a couple of bonus HD and minor bonuses. At 16th level, the elemental becomes Huge or gains more bonus HD and more minor bonuses. Pros: Elementals have a number of advantages over animals: 1. They are intelligent and do not require use of the Handle Animal skill. A druid can simply verbally order an elemental to do anything he wishes, including complex instructions regarding the manipulation of objects. (I.E. "Fly over that wall, avoid the golems, grab the blue vase from the pedestal, and fly back here.) A druid is not forced to invest skill ranks in Handle Animal, compensating nicely for the skill points invested in the otherwise useless (for a druid) Knowledge: Planes. 2. Elementals possess Darkvision, have a number of very nice immunities (including poison, stunning, and critical hits), and require no sleep or food (leave them on watch all night). 3. Elementals possess superior AC to animals of equivalent CR, and from 10th level on up they have typeless damage reduction. 4. Special abilities. Elemental companions have nice special abilties and movement modes that animals can't match. Cons: 1. Their power increase is much less smooth than that of an animal companion. A Medium elemental has roughly the same CR as the animal companion you can get at 4th level, and a Large Elemental has roughly the same CR as the animal companion you can get at 10th level. But at 6th-9th level or so? Your animal companion gets a big boost while your elemental companion gets nothing. Same problem at 12th-15th level. 2. Less attack power. Elementals don't hit as hard with as damaging attacks at animals. Nor do they get to do cool trips, grapples, or pounces. 3. No animal-only buffs. Animal growth is the big core buff, but there are scattered splatbook buffs as well. You can't pump up your elemental companion to be as efficient a killing machine as your animal companion, no question. 4. Loss of Wild Empathy. I don't think most campaigns see this used too much, but it's an ability that comes in handy every once in a while, and now you don't get it. 5. Blatant. You can pass off a war dog without too many stares, and even with more powerful companions, "look at my trained tiger" is a valid excuse. But being followed around by an elemental, there's no way to hide you have major mystical mojo. On the plus side, everyone who looks at you knows you have major mystical mojo. Teach 'em some respect. Elemental Types Air elementals Air elementals have an incredible 100ft fly speed at perfect maneuverability, allowing them to circumvent numerous obstacles at low levels. ("Fly up there and grab that for me," becomes the druid's favorite phrase.) Their carrying capacity is not great (until you get a Large one at 11th), but they can handle small objects in a way that an eagle or dire bat can't. With great dexterity and Improved Initiative as a bonus feat, they will generally go first. Flyby attack allows it to act without sticking around near the ground. Finally, their whirlwind form is occasionally useful. You'll have to wait a long time until it can pick up medium creatures and even then it'll be an easy save, but it can scatter swarms like a shot. Also, the cloud of dust produced by whirlwinding on the ground means instant concealment pretty much anywhere on the battlefield you want. That's useful. On the negative side, the air elemental has fewer hitpoints than the earth or water varieties, and feeble attacks. It also has lousy fortitude saves, but what do you care? If it dies from a death effect, it can be replaced easily. Overall, an air elemental is a strong contender for best choice from a simple utility perspective. It won't help so much in a stand-up fight, but its incredible movement means it can go anywhere on a battlefield very quickly and do something useful. Earth Elementals Earth elementals have high strength. If you're looking for a lackey to lug around all the stuff of your strength 6 druid while he's in feeble humanoid form or no-hands wildshape, Earth elementals make a great choice. But the real money is in earth glide, or as I like to call it, "incorporeality-lite". Being able to pass through stone, dirt, or earth means it can go almost anywhere - except inside houses with wood floors. The potentials in a dungeon should be obvious. Its attacks do decent damage, and Earth Mastery helps against groundbound opponents (90%+). Finally, the Power Attack/Cleave feat chain is decent. Biggest liability is that earth elementals are so slow. 20 ft movement? Please. Their Push maneuver would be more useful if they could position themselves faster. Also, they're really heavy, which might never matter but could be of vital importance one day. Overall, Earth elementals are probably the best choice for your traditional 20' x 20' room dungeon delving, where you have earth on all sides and not much room to maneuver anyway. In a city campaign, they are competive with air elementals, but probably not in game with lots of wilderness, long-range encounters. Fire Elementals They're fast, if not as fast as air elementals. There's a certain intimidation factor in having a huge flaming figure following you everywhere. Their burn attack will get through DR, and force an enemy to be making a save every round. They shed light and can be a source of fire for some spells. They're immune to Fire. And Vulnerable to Cold. And half as fast as air elementals while being unable to fly. And their slam attack doesn't do much damage. And they can't pick things up for you without burning them. No carrying your pack. If you can switch out elementals for specific missions, I could see taking a fire elemental for a particular foe or set of foes. As what you plan to be using from levels 1 through 20? Probably not, unless your concept somehow demands it. Water Elementals Well, what is there to say? In an underwater aquatic campaign, there's no other choice. In a ship-based campaign, you could take one over an air elemental, though I think the air elemental is slightly better (you're never on ship all the time). Any other cirumstance, there's no point in taking one. Overall No surprise, taking an elemental companion is a trade-off of combat power for utility. If you just want a death dealing machine to rend your foes, get that war dog. If you want an intelligent lackey that can do things for you, get an elemental companion. Remember that unlike familiars, there's no cost to their death, so don't be afraid to risk them. If you can talk your DM into it, a Storm Elemental Companion would be very in-theme for a druid and get a little of that combat power back. That would be a house rule, though.
#132 thomas_covenant Jan 17, 2007 13:31:23	for Wolfwood2. Seriously, well done. It deserves at least a full section for the Druid guide. Minor note: Druids often happily pay skill points they often have little use for for at least Speak Language: Auran and Terran anyway. Spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally and all that. I really would like an answer to your noted question though, the ability to switch types in 24 hours makes a big difference in power and utility. (Mainly utility) That's about all I can add now, excellent post really.
#133 arismir Jan 17, 2007 14:57:51	Assuming that the elemental companion gets the same bonuses as an animal companion, such as link, you could use Aspect of the Wolf to disguise it instead of having a giant elemental.
#134 whitishknight Jan 18, 2007 2:31:52	I can't take credit for this, because Norsesmithy in another thread sparked this suggestion. +5 Animated Darkwood Heavy Shield w/ +5 Defending Shield Spikes and it's all RAW. that's +12 AC. Edit: I also had a question on whether anyone thought the Craft (Poisonmaking) had any useful applications for Druids. Contact Poison Bearhugs, for instance?
#135 zombiegleemax Jan 20, 2007 1:06:41	I also had a question on whether anyone thought the Craft (Poisonmaking) had any useful applications for Druids. Contact Poison Bearhugs, for instance? Not particularly. Poison is too expensive for too little effect. Also, applying contact poison to your own skin is almost never wise. You may be immune, but your animal companion, party members, and anyone else you might want to touch (for a touch spell, for example) is not.
#136 cannibalsmith Jan 20, 2007 1:54:36	Too expensive? Don't druids gather the ingredients from the land? They're druids after all.
#137 zombiegleemax Jan 20, 2007 12:37:09	Don't forget, with Elemental Companions, that Large Air Elementals (and larger) in Whirlwind form count as stormy weather for Call Lightning and Call Lightning Storm.
#138 zombiegleemax Jan 22, 2007 15:15:04	Here's an offshoot question for you... Druid's vestments. Would they be considered naturally "wildling"? If you only have the bonus wildshape provided by them, and then wildshape, if they were to meld with you and become inactive you would no longer have any wildshapes remaining and then need to revert correct?
#139 cannibalsmith Jan 22, 2007 15:28:49	When wild shape (or any spell for that matter) is already in effect, it does not matter what you can or can't. It will end when it's duration expires.
#140 Roflwolf Feb 04, 2007 23:30:00	In an effort to bump this thread and assist Ethendril with equipment ideas - Something I've just come across is decreasing the cost of creating magic items. You can get a 30% discount when an item requires a specific alignment or character class. A great item idea is the Monk's Belt. Increased unarmed attack damage and Wisdom bonus +1 to your armor class. You can also give the bonus to a vest, so you can carry the AC bonus to your wild shaped form with a Wilding Clasp.
#141 jameswilliamogle Feb 05, 2007 9:08:08	One thing I just realized: Under the new Wildshape rules, your type doesn't change. Wildshape into a large (or larger) creature, then have the party Cleric administer a potion of Enlarge Person on you, or just have the Wizard cast it on you. Blammo, you are now a Huge (or larger) creature, and are that much better at grappling, etc!
#142 ethendril_dup Feb 10, 2007 0:56:43	One thing I just realized: Under the new Wildshape rules, your type doesn't change. Wildshape into a large (or larger) creature, then have the party Cleric administer a potion of Enlarge Person on you, or just have the Wizard cast it on you. Blammo, you are now a Huge (or larger) creature, and are that much better at grappling, etc! If this works, could you also have a permanent Enlarge Person cast on you and always be one size larger creature?
#143 arismir Feb 10, 2007 11:15:26	Don't permanently enlarge yourself, cause well then, you're always large and you lose a lot of flexibility. If you can convince your DM, just get a wondrous item of enlarge person (unlimited uses per day, not continuous). This works better with the shapeshift variant, but it let's you also not be 8 feet tall and weight 1000 lbs.
#144 greendevilman Feb 11, 2007 9:35:28	Kind of a minor note but I think Lion of Talisid (BoED page 65) maybe deserves a mention under the prestige class section of the guide. It isn't totally amazing or anything but it does seem like it might be worth it for some people and unlike most other Druid PrCs isn't total garbage. You essentially give up a feat and two levels of wildshape (plus A Thousand Faces and Timeless Body) in return for a fairly decent selection of class features over ten levels. Its a full casting progression class so you don't lose anything there either. And while none of the class features are brokenly good I don't think anyone would have too many complaints about them either: -Fear Immunity -Sacred bonus to will saves vs. mind affecting -Exalted Animal Companion for free (totally useless, but Blink Dogs are cute) -Scent -Pounce -Class level in free rounds of haste per day -3 uses/day of Leonal's Roar (Druidic Holy Word with bonus sonic damage) at 10th level with slightly improved save DC. It seems pretty fair for what you give up and won't be winning any optimization challenges but since the guide cautions so strongly against other druid PrCs I figured it should probably be mentioned as a viable possiblity for anyone who might be inclined to try it. As a side note it really is a pity you lose your animal companion in addition to wildshape with the shapeshift alternative class feature or else this PrC would be pretty darned good for them.
#145 zombiegleemax Feb 12, 2007 21:45:24	Is it still true that you lose Darkvision after wildshaping? Alternate form says that you lose Extraordinary Special Attacks, but that you retain Special Qualities.
#146 thomas_covenant Feb 13, 2007 3:57:13	Is it still true that you lose Darkvision after wildshaping? Alternate form says that you lose Extraordinary Special Attacks, but that you retain Special Qualities. Nope, one reason I really like dwarves as Druids now. A bit baffling, but you keep not only the Dwarf saves, but stability as well....but don't be surprised to see stability house-ruled out in most campaigns, really.
#147 Pyromantic Feb 13, 2007 10:47:22	Arcane Hierophant (RotW) - Wizard/druid blended class. I've never fiddled with this, and I don't think a guide has been written. (If someone has a guide, please point it out to me.) It isn't finished yet, but I am currently working on a fairly comprehensive Arcane Hierophant guide. As soon as it's complete (or near enough to be posted) I will let you know.
#148 cannibalsmith Feb 14, 2007 9:02:30	Just realized this: This is not unique to druids, but Eschew Materials plus Stone Shape can be abused the same way as Tree Feather Token can be. Without Eschew Materials the time it takes to shape the clay makes the spell unusable in combat. You can carry premade shapes around in a Handy Haversack (fast retrieval ability), but that's still a versatility and speed loss. Anyway. Do we all agree that Fullmetal Alchemist is cool?
#149 arismir Feb 14, 2007 11:42:25	Is there any other way to abuse Eschew Materials with druid spells? i.e. Are there any other spells with effectively no-cost materials that could be hindersome. The first I can think of would be Icelance from SpC, which requires a certain amount of snow or ice.
#150 realmad Feb 15, 2007 1:20:47	I'm thinking of playing a druid for the first time but I'll have to start at level 1 so I'm not too clear on which stats are supposed to be dumped. Could anyone give me an idea of what is okay to put at 12 or lower? Also, is the PHB2 shapechanger variant worth anything at all? Seems to me that the normal wildshape is much more powerful, except that the shapechanger variant is probably more functional in terms of roleplaying (you don't have to worry about walking into town as an Ape or Dinosaur, etc. and you can use it as disguise). Maybe this could work if my character were focused on summonings? Or is it really just too much to give up? I only mention it as my group's games tend to involve a lot of roleplaying and character interaction and I don't want to be the party member left in the forest outside town all the time (which is what happened to the last druid).
#151 cannibalsmith Feb 15, 2007 2:14:48	Stats in order of importance: Wis, Con, Int, Dex, Cha, Str. Shapechanger variant would have been okay if not for the unusably short durations. But the ability to disguise as an inconspicuous domestic animal is invaluable.
#152 realmad Feb 15, 2007 8:39:51	Doesn't it say that you can stay in a shapechange form as long as you like? My worry here is that you can't really dump STR and DEX anymore since you get a bonus in shapechange form as against replacing STR, DEX and CON. That being the case, I don't really see the variant build matching up well with your standard CoDzilla. I've been reading some of the stuff that Druid players Wild Shape into and I am now starting to really understand the power of this class. So not unless the ability to be an inconspicuous domestic animal at any time has a large premium in someone's campaign, there's no way I should be taking the variant, correct?
#153 friendlyfrog Feb 15, 2007 9:16:52	Shapeshift isn't as strong as Wild shape, but it isn't that bad, either. It's the fact that you can't get Natural spell without the actual Wild shape class ability that really make it suck in comparison. If Shapeshift would qualify for Natural spell, it would be much, much better than it currently is. It would still be far behind Wild shape, though, but it wouldn't really suck anymore.
#154 cannibalsmith Feb 15, 2007 10:39:44	Whoops! I mixed up. Still, in my opinion, Shapechange is useless. I see no good points to it.
#155 arismir Feb 15, 2007 11:23:32	Ok, first off, it's ShapeSHIFT. Shapechange is a level 9 spell which is better than Wildshape. I've written a guide about Shapeshift found here. In summary, there is a lot of benefits from taking the shapeshift variant. For example, you can shift as a swift action and as many times per day. Yes this gives flexibility but it also makes your equipment useful again. The reason being that because you cannot cast in animal forms, you can use your swift action to shift back and utilize your nifty periapt of wisdom, bead of karma, rod of extend, and so on. It's a swift action, so if you want to cast a spell, just shift back and then shift back to animal form the following round. This makes the need of Natural Spell obselete, so in reality the Shapeshift variant wouldn't benefit from Natural Spell, but actually benefits from not requiring it. Shapeshift solves many of the major issues in trying to optimize Wildshape. Those issues include, speaking in wildshape - you don't need to speak in shapeshift because you can swift action change and do it as many times a day as you like while Wildshape is greatly limited in this area. Also, utilizing equipment - instead of taking off all your gear and having your teammates put it back on you, you can just invest in casting gear and spells/day items that still benefit you. Blending into cities - you can just change forms, and you don't need to be a butt-ugly ape wearing a hat of disguise and trying to stand with good posture to blend in. Admittedly, Shapeshift is less powerful and less broken than wildshape, but to say that it "sucks" is simply incorrect. It is not meant to replace Wildshape but instead offers a completely different ability for druids. So check out the guide and tell me what you think about Shapeshift afterwards.
#156 cannibalsmith Feb 15, 2007 11:50:44	Whoops again. Sorry. You are correct on all accounts.
#157 realmad Feb 16, 2007 9:27:52	I'm currently playing a SwordSage2 and was basically looking to build it to a Beshadowed Blade but I came upon this idea while deciding whether to shift to Druid: SwordSage 2/Druid (Shapeshift variant) 18 Currently, I have low strength (10) but high Dex and Wis (18 to both actually, rolled) and pretty much low everything else save for a 14 Con. Moving forward in Druid, would the following happen: 1. Will Wis to AC stay in Shapeshift form? 2. Can I make unarmed strikes in Shapeshift form? I seem to have read that I can, but would I use unarmed strike damage or natural weapon damage? Will ShadowBlade still apply? 3. Can I still use Maneuvers and Stances in Shapeshift form? While PHB2 says that I cannot cast spells, it says I retain extraordinary, supernatural and spell-like abilities. I like the idea of this since I can change form at will. I don't get left out of major plot points and NPC interactions. If everything works like I hope it will, I'll have a great Predator form with Natural Armor + Dex + Wis for AC and attack damage + Str + Dex, on top of the high movement. This synergy then will keep working as I gain more Shapeshift forms. I suppose that alternately, I could just take a normal Druid and Wild Shape into other high Str and/or Dex forms but I already made Dex a top score and again, the role playing aspect of being an at-will Shapeshifter is quite intriguing. I can already smell a lot of interesting plot twists with it.
#158 cannibalsmith Feb 16, 2007 9:38:26	1. Yes. 2. You can make unarmed strikes and deal unarmed damage or you can make natural attacks and deal natural attack damage. 3. Yes.
#159 realmad Feb 16, 2007 10:40:22	So far so good. Last thing, I assume then that if I use unarmed strikes, I won't be able to get any of the buffs and DR bypasses of the shapeshift forms, right? But is there anything I can do or cast that will buff unarmed strikes? I take it Magic Fang only applies to natural weapons...
#160 cannibalsmith Feb 16, 2007 10:50:16	Talk to your DM. Common sense says you get enchantment bonus on unarmed attacks - it's the same appendage after all. But by RAW, no, you don't. Same for Magic Fang.
#161 friendlyfrog Feb 16, 2007 10:53:34	But is there anything I can do or cast that will buff unarmed strikes? I take it Magic Fang only applies to natural weapons... Do you use the adapted Swordsage that gets Unarmed strike as a Monk instead of armor proficiencies? I ask because Monk's unarmed strike is both a manufactured weapon and a natural one, so Magic fang would buff it normally.
#162 realmad Feb 16, 2007 11:40:12	Do you use the adapted Swordsage that gets Unarmed strike as a Monk instead of armor proficiencies? I ask because Monk's unarmed strike is both a manufactured weapon and a natural one, so Magic fang would buff it normally. Unfortunately no. Had I known I would want to try Druid, I'd have picked it but, as it stands, I've been using the standard version. I'd have to start again at level 1 to change it.
#163 frosthammer Feb 21, 2007 15:56:32	Just a question: Why would Druids of Mielikki be proficient with no weapons?
#164 NineInchNall Feb 21, 2007 17:34:39	This makes the need of Natural Spell obselete, so in reality the Shapeshift variant wouldn't benefit from Natural Spell, but actually benefits from not requiring it. Explain to me again how the Shapeshifter can cast greater magic fang or align fang on himself. I'm having a hard time with those.
#165 Pyromantic Feb 22, 2007 13:06:26	It isn't finished yet, but I am currently working on a fairly comprehensive Arcane Hierophant guide. As soon as it's complete (or near enough to be posted) I will let you know. As promised, here it is: The Arcane Hierophant Examined
#166 arismir Feb 22, 2007 14:31:02	Explain to me again how the Shapeshifter can cast greater magic fang or align fang on himself. I'm having a hard time with those. Well first of all, you shouldn't even have to cast Magic Fang or Greater Magic Fang because you already receive an enhancement bonus to all attacks. [Disclaimer: I'm at work at the moment and I'm just using the SRD for Magic Fang. If the data I've given is not correct, then that's cool, but I'm assuming Magic Fang and Greater Magic Fang and Align Fang are practically the same.] I see what your saying about not having a natural weapon to cast the spell on at the time of casting, and yeah that would propose a problem if the spell target was one natural weapon. However, the spell target is creature touched, not natural weapon touched. So in my opinion you'd cast it on yourself (target creature) and then shapeshift, and it would apply to one of your natural attacks. Could be wrong though.
#167 CharlesCurtisStanley Feb 23, 2007 15:33:26	Just a question: Why would Druids of Mielikki be proficient with no weapons? I'm away from my books at the moment, but Druids of Mielikki are granted the same weapon and armor proficiencies as Rangers of Mielikki. This is in both the FRCS and (as I recall) Faiths and Pantheons.
#168 dorienaenor Feb 28, 2007 21:44:46	Hey guys, would you mind trying to help me in my doubt? Please check it out and tell me what you think about my idea. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=800551 Tahnk you all, Felipe.
#169 knightware Mar 06, 2007 2:33:21	Hi guys what would the ultimate form be for a 25hd creature heading towards charge/claws.. Also is the shapechange spell better than using your wildshape
#170 munitia Mar 11, 2007 1:59:33	Hi, This is a great handbook, but I have a question about a mechanic Im sure I must be reading incorrectly. I'm trying to puzzle out something about the grappling rules. Lets say I change into a Giant Octopus. I have Imp Grapple and Constrict as abilities. Imp Grapple allows me to make a free grapple check anytime I hit with an attack (an attack which does 1d4 + 5 damage). I then if I succeed on this check get to do constriction damage of 2d8 + 6. Now I assume because of my special attacking I DONT get to hit it again as per an unarmed attack as the rules say you would. And I also assume you don't get to do any of the things under the section of the book on "if your grappling" as I assume those would take another action which you dont have at this point. However my major question is this, since you can end a grapple as a free action does this mean you could end the grapple and then make your next 7 attacks doing 1d4 +5 damage on each + the 2d8 + 6 if you hit with the grapple? So confused! thanks for the input.
#171 cannibalsmith Mar 11, 2007 3:41:10	Improved Grapple gives +4 on grapple checks. Improved Grab allows you to start a grapple for free whenever you hit. Extraordinary Abilities that are actions consume standard actions unless otherwise noted. Thus, normally: You can take If You're Grappling actions or constrict. If you choose to constrict however, you deal your natural attack damage of the limb you're grappling with in addition to constriction damage. You can't deal constriction damage, let go, and attack in the same turn.
#172 AZNsupermarket Mar 11, 2007 12:21:54	few things: 1) I would add dragonborn of bahamut to the list of possible races. A buomon who becomes a dragonborn of bahamut has the following stats: +2 wis +2 con -2 cha -2 dex and no LA. RAW they would also lose their vow of silence. That makes them a damn good druid 2) list of all races with bonus to wis and LA +0 in case you want a more complete list: Anthropomorphic Bat: -4 Str +6 Wis -2 Cha, small, 5 ft. (fly 20 ft. average), blindsense (ex), druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Lizard: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 20 ft., druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Monkey: -4 Str +2 Dex +4Wis -2 Cha, small, 30 ft., druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Rat: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 15 ft., rogue, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Raven: -6 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 10 ft. (fly 30ft. poor), rogue, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Toad: -4 Str -2 Dex +6 Wis -2 Cha, small, 5 ft., cleric, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Weasel: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 20 ft., attach (ex), druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Jermlaine: -6 Str +6 Dex -2 Con -2 Int +6 Wis -6 Cha, tiny, 40 ft., rogue, fey, monster manual 2 pg.131 Buomman: +2 Wis -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., monk, humanoid (buomman, extraplanar), planar handbook pg.08 "Lesser" Aasimar +2 Wis +2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., light (sp), paladin, humanoid (planetouched), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 3) Another good race to list is a dragonwrought kobold. In races of the dragon, it says that they no longer gain penalties, but still gain the bonuses for increasing age categories. 4) You should probably add Constrictor Snake (MM 3.5 pg 280) to the list of good grapplers. I don't know too much about this, but I have been assured that they were one of the best wildshaping grapplers (using pre-errata rules at least) - http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=1035854&postcount=5 Sorry to bug you (A Man in Black), but I would really like it if you add the info I wrote to the guide... I dunno how much of you got around to posting or what parts you don't want to post, but there is still some good stuff that I posted that you never added.
#173 xel Mar 12, 2007 17:38:17	In the guide, on the spell list: 9th level spell Summon Elemental Monolith is said to not be as useful for a Druid because it requires concentration. In Complete Scoundrel, the skill trick 'Swift Concentration' makes this a non-issue. This skill trick also opens up other possibilities (can't remember the spells off the top of my head) as other concentration spells become very usable. --Xel
#174 cannibalsmith Mar 13, 2007 2:17:51	Summon Swarm.
#175 friendlyfrog Mar 13, 2007 4:00:10	Swift concentration, like all skill tricks, is only usable 1/encounter. Taking the feat Extraordinary concentration from Complete adventurer is a better solution.
#176 zombiegleemax Mar 13, 2007 5:22:28	Hiya, I'm trying to sort out Imbued Summoning (PHB2) is worth taking. Here http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=808340 I asked if the feat could work with for example Luminous Armor. Does any of you have ideas about this? Sander
#177 cannibalsmith Mar 13, 2007 5:52:32	Swift concentration, like all skill tricks, is only usable 1/encounter. Taking the feat Extraordinary concentration from Complete adventurer is a better solution. But I need it even less! In the morning I encounter the sunrise, cast Summon Swarm and concentrate on it all day long. Besides, druids are feat-starved as it is. And what counts as an encounter anyway? Hiya, I'm trying to sort out Imbued Summoning (PHB2) is worth taking. Here I asked if the feat could work with for example Luminous Armor. Does any of you have ideas about this? Now there's a spell to imbue your summons with! But Wizards say that when you summon several creatures with a single spell only one gets imbued (you get to choose which one). A Lesser Rod of Quickening does that and more. But talk to your DM. My DM ruled that all the creatures get imbued.
#178 zombiegleemax Mar 13, 2007 6:43:55	Now there's a spell to imbue your summons with! But Wizards say that when you summon several creatures with a single spell only one gets imbued (you get to choose which one). A Lesser Rod of Quickening does that and more. But talk to your DM. My DM ruled that all the creatures get imbued. When it applies on only one creatures the feat sucks bigtime. I have to look to the feat description when I have my books near me.. Where did ya find the wizards answer?
#179 cannibalsmith Mar 13, 2007 6:56:40	Here.
#180 hogarth Mar 13, 2007 7:43:11	The authors' favorite forms are in bold. These are the forms you're going to want to trade up to. In general, a plant form is better than an animal form when all other things are equal, because of the pile of immunities that come with plant form. Why would a druid get plant immunities when wild shaping into a plant creature? Those are special qualities, not (Ex) special attacks.
#181 sian Mar 13, 2007 15:38:44	So, in an upcoming game where we're starting at level 2, one player wants to try a druid/barbarian. In a group where we're already frontline heavy, 1: what role should the character fill, and 2: how do we pull it off? other party members include: Bard/Crusader (give xd6 fire damage bonus to everyone in melee), Cleric/Monk steering for Hunter of the Dead, Factotum, blast Wizard, and Warblade.
#182 zombiegleemax Mar 13, 2007 15:50:25	consider the Unearthed Arcana Druid variant that grants rage.
#183 xel Mar 13, 2007 16:28:03	Swift concentration, like all skill tricks, is only usable 1/encounter. Taking the feat Extraordinary concentration from Complete adventurer is a better solution. Like someone else mentioned, druids are feat-starved. The skill trick only costs 2 skill points, and is usable once per encounter. The book also says that in situations where it's hard to define what's going on as an 'encounter', once per minute is about right. How often is a druid going to be casting concentration spells? The trick should be more than enough, and keeps the feat free. --Xel
#184 mercury529 Mar 13, 2007 16:38:34	Like someone else mentioned, druids are feat-starved. The skill trick only costs 2 skill points, and is usable once per encounter. The book also says that in situations where it's hard to define what's going on as an 'encounter', once per minute is about right. How often is a druid going to be casting concentration spells? The trick should be more than enough, and keeps the feat free. Keep in mind its once per encounter for 1 round. So basically a concentration spell you have lasts one round longer (while restricting you from benefiting from other swift/immediate actions). If you have the skill points to spare, it can be somewhat useful. Otherwise, 1 extra round of a concentration spell usually isn't going to be particularly potent. I would kind of disagree with Druids being feat-starved. Can you really say a druid with Natural Spell and Quicken Spell, isn't a potent force with only those two feats (and quite frankly Quicken is not even a must, just very good)? Yes there are lots of good feats for Druids to benefit from, but only one of them is really necessary (Natural Spell of course). To me, being feat-starved means that there are numerous feat requirements for a build to be potent. For instance a Shadowcraft Mage really needs Spell Focus (Illusion), Heighten Spell, Earth Sense, and Earth Spell to function properly, and he must be gnomish (barring special DM exceptions). That means an ScM has 4 less feats to choose from than a Human Druid because they are filled with required feats. Having only one necessary feat to make a strong build is hardly something I would consider feat-starved. There are just a lot of good options. And for me, when you are powerful to begin with and have very few required feats, sacrificing a good feat for a good (but slightly less so) feat doesn't seem like as hard of a compromise.
#185 jackmojo Mar 13, 2007 16:48:08	Why would a druid get plant immunities when wild shaping into a plant creature? Those are special qualities, not (Ex) special attacks. Thats just one of his things that needs editing for the new Wild Shape rules. Although note you can still get this with the Enhance Wild Shape spell from the Spell Compendium. Hopefully he's still planning on updating it since I'm a big fan of nicely consolidated lists to get me looking in the right direction. Jack
#186 cannibalsmith Mar 13, 2007 16:50:19	Keep in mind its once per encounter for 1 round. Where exactly did you read that?
#187 mercury529 Mar 13, 2007 16:57:44	Where exactly did you read that? Well perhaps my reading is wrong, but a skill trick is an action. Swift Concentration appears to be a swift action. You can use the swift action trick once per encounter. That means when the next round comes around, you have to maintain concentration as usual. The wording is not perfect, but that I think is RAW. You could possibly make an argument that using the trick allows you continously keep concentration on the same spell as a swift action for an encounter. However, I think this reading ignores the fact that skill tricks are actions (and that Swift Concentration certainly appears to be a swift action). Maybe I am reading it wrong. If I am reading it wrong, the trick is rather overpowered compared to other skill tricks as it allows you to maintain one concentration spell for the duration of a combat.
#188 cannibalsmith Mar 13, 2007 17:18:55	I get it. This particular skill trick is not an action, but attaches itself to and modifies Concentrate to Maintain a Spell action which is treated as a separate standard action for each round. Thus you are correct - the trick's effective duration is one round. Still, this trick is dirt cheap, as they all are.
#189 mercury529 Mar 13, 2007 18:08:14	I get it. This particular skill trick is not an action, but attaches itself to and modifies Concentrate to Maintain a Spell action which is treated as a separate standard action for each round. Thus you are correct - the trick's effective duration is one round. Darn, I was hoping I was wrong on that one haha.
#190 jackmojo Mar 15, 2007 16:37:19	The Magic Item Compendium has wilding clasps in it, most important change it they can work on any item worn on the body (rather then just amulet and vest) Jack
#191 ethendril_dup Mar 15, 2007 19:22:47	The Magic Item Compendium has wilding clasps in it, most important change it they can work on any item worn on the body (rather then just amulet and vest) Jack Yeah, this is huge for druids, IMO. I'd like to work on the ultimate druid equipment list again given the Magic Item Compendium. Here's the list pre-Compendium...any thoughts on the perfect item for each druid equipment slot and cool new items from the Compendium? Equipment a druid can wear in wildshape: (All items except Wild Armor require the use of a 3.5 wilding clasp from Magic Item Compendium, unless you want to play "dress-up" each time you change form) 1. One headband, hat, helmet, or phylactery on the head: ? 2. One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck: Periapt of wisdom +6 3. One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso ? 4. One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt): +5 Wild armor (probably darkleaf or serpentscale breastplate armor) 5. One belt around the waist (over a robe or suit of armor): ? 6. One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor): ? 7. One pair of bracers or bracelets on the arms or wrists: ? 8. One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands: ? 9. One ring on each hand (or two rings on one hand): ? 10. One pair of boots or shoes on the feet: ? Equipment not on your person (and thus "functional"): 1. +5 Animated Darkwood Heavy Shield (Animated counts as +2, energy resistances are nice for the other enhancements, possibly defending shield spikes) 2. Ioun Stone (orange or other); 3. Stone of Good Luck (Luckstone); 4. Bead of Karma (From Strand of Prayer Beads); Other handy druid equipment and buffs: 1. Permanent Greater Magic Fang from a lvl 20 caster (pretty cost-effective buff, must do it for each form of natural attack, such as claw, bite, slam, etc.); 2. Rods of metamagic (use pre-combat to extend buffs); 3. Wand of lesser vigor; 4. Tome of Understanding +5; 5. Non-humanoid armor for use in wildshape forms (before you get wild armor, probably leatherscale); 6. Handy Haversack; 7. Wand of mage armor for your group's arcanist to cast this handy buff on you and/or your animal companion. 8. Mouthpick weapons (LoM) are silly but useful in Wild Shape. 9. Shifter Braid of Spellstrike (RoE) gives you a quickened buff of third level or less for 500 gp a use, if you're a shifter. 10. A Vestment of Verminshape (DMG2) lets you take vermin Wild Shapes. Vermin sort of suck, though. 11. Magical Locations, mentioned in DMG2 and later books, are nice for druids, since they don't go away when you Wild Shape. Garden of Nature's Rage (DMG2) gives a Wild Shape-specific boost, for what it's worth. 12. Apply contact poison to your natural attacks before entering combat...you're immune after 9th level, after all.
#192 khaim Mar 15, 2007 19:27:54	7. Wand of mage armor for your group's arcanist to cast this handy buff on you and/or your animal companion. Um, why can't said arcanist just cast Mage Armor on you? It's all of a 1st level spell, and oh yes, will last all day instead of one hour.
#193 ethendril_dup Mar 15, 2007 21:21:51	Um, why can't said arcanist just cast Mage Armor on you? It's all of a 1st level spell, and oh yes, will last all day instead of one hour. I'm just compiling the suggestions for what people think are good ideas for equipment. But you're right.
#194 AZNsupermarket Mar 15, 2007 22:51:15	5. One belt around the waist (over a robe or suit of armor): ?
#195 xel Mar 15, 2007 23:48:40	The benefits of the Monk's Belt can not be combined with armor or a shield, as a 5th level Monk only adds his Wisdom bonus to AC when unarmored and unencumbered. --Xel
#196 friendlyfrog Mar 16, 2007 6:39:26	A higher level Druid might want to go with the Belt of magnificence +6, a Wild armor and a Wild shield instead of the Monk's belt. Though at lower levels the Monk's belt is a lot more cost efficient item for more AC.
#197 zombiegleemax Mar 16, 2007 9:27:47	The Spell "Winged Watcher" from Complete Scoundrel seems great for getting out of trouble fast. It's just a swift action to cast. This could save a lot of low-level druids.
#198 sian Mar 16, 2007 13:01:50	I'm just compiling the suggestions for what people think are good ideas for equipment. But you're right. One hour's plenty, to a mid-high level character a first level wand is chump change, and it frees up the arcane caster to prepare spells he wants in his daily slots instead of spells you want. ;)
#199 friendlyfrog Mar 16, 2007 13:06:12	If the Wizard prepares (Greater) Mage armor for himself/herself, it's cheaper (in the long run) to buy him a Pearl of Power. That way he can cast the spell again on you, no wasted spell slots.
#200 sian Mar 16, 2007 13:42:59	If the Wizard prepares (Greater) Mage armor for himself/herself, it's cheaper (in the long run) to buy him a Pearl of Power. That way he can cast the spell again on you, no wasted spell slots. Very true. good move.
#201 zombiegleemax Mar 19, 2007 17:23:22	So I am thinking about making a Warforged Druid and looking over the errata for wildshape. My question is about Warforged Components, specifically those that are embedded. Such items occupy magic item spots, such as amulet or bracer, but become a part of the warforged, not worn. Since they are not "gear worn or carried by the druid" (as per errata'd wildshape rules), would a you retain any benefits from those components while wildshaped?
#202 a_wizard_for_breakfast Mar 23, 2007 17:50:12	Assuming starting wisdom of 17, venerable (+3), Tome of Understanding (+5), Item (+6), Levels (+5), you end up with a wisdom of 36 (+13 bonus). Monk's Belt tosses in an additional +1, so that's +14 to AC for 13,000 gp. Bracers of Armor +8 cost 64,000 gp. 2 Wilding Clasps (4000 gp per): 8000 gps Total: +22 to AC for 85,000 gps. +5 Wild Fullplate (ignoring the cost of the armor) AC +13: 64,000 gps. +5 Animated Heavy Shield (ignoring the same costs) AC +7: 98,000 gps Total: +21 to AC for 162,000 gps. Now, the two items do take up 2 body slots while the armor + shield only takes up 1. However, I still think that the belt and bracers are a better idea. EDIT: I also like the Pearl of Power idea. 9,000 gp to get two party members +6 to AC, though it could be dispelled I suppose.
#203 some_like_it_hot_02 Mar 23, 2007 18:02:02	I like the Ring of Mighty Summons from Complete Mage. 3/day any creature you summon with a spell has full HP per hit die, but the duration of the spell is halved. 14,000 gp. Nice at higher levels when the duration of a summon spell is usually longer than most combats last. Also nice that it works on multiple creatures.
#204 archangel_tyrael Mar 23, 2007 18:10:09	Now, the two items do take up 2 body slots while the armor + shield only takes up 1. However, I still think that the belt and bracers are a better idea. You could double the price of the belt to 26,000 and make it slotless :D. Assuming starting wisdom of 17, venerable (+3), Tome of Understanding (+5), Item (+6), Levels (+5), you end up with a wisdom of 36 (+13 bonus). This, however, is a little rediculous. What did your Con score start out as, an 18? -6 to Con is a killer. That's -60 hit points at level 20.
#205 a_wizard_for_breakfast Mar 23, 2007 18:33:52	Be middle age and end up with a wisdom of 34. Lose 1 pt of AC, 1 9th level bonus spell, save DC for all spells is reduced by 1. You gain at least 2 and, potentially, 3 hp per level on the previous example. Not a bad trade, you're right.
#206 sian Mar 23, 2007 19:30:16	This, however, is a little rediculous. What did your Con score start out as, an 18? -6 to Con is a killer. That's -60 hit points at level 20. Well druids past 15th level don't suck up age penalties.. Just need an excuse to sit around for 60 years after attaining 15th. ;)
#207 a_wizard_for_breakfast Mar 23, 2007 22:40:17	Heh...didn't think of that.
#208 trevhippy Mar 24, 2007 0:36:26	Another druid spell I like. Evard's menacing tentacles (EDIT : LOCATED IN PHB II, PAGE 113). It's pretty broken for druids and imagine it will get nerfed but it gives you... Two tentacles with a 10' reach that you can direct as a free action. Their attack roll is based off your BAB + your strength. So...wildshape into something strong and you have two more primary attacks dealing 1d8+str. Plus, each tentacle can make one attack of opportunity per round. Awesome sauce. --Trev
#209 cannibalsmith Mar 24, 2007 2:15:23	Evard's menacing tentacles. Where is it?
#210 Roflwolf Mar 24, 2007 8:46:27	Evard's Black Tentacles - Spell - Players Handbook (3.5), p. 228 This spell conjures a field of rubbery black tentacles, each 10 feet long. These waving members seem to spring forth from the earth, floor, or whatever surface is underfoot—including water. They grasp and entwine around creatures that enter the area, holding them fast and crushing them with great strength. Every creature within the area of the spell must make a grapple check, opposed by the grapple check of the tentacles. Treat the tentacles attacking a particular target as a Large creature with a base attack bonus equal to your caster level and a Strength score of 19. Thus, its grapple check modifier is equal to your caster level +8. The tentacles are immune to all types of damage. Once the tentacles grapple an opponent, they may make a grapple check each round on your turn to deal 1d6+4 points of bludgeoning damage. The tentacles continue to crush the opponent until the spell ends or the opponent escapes. Any creature that enters the area of the spell is immediately attacked by the tentacles. Even creatures who aren’t grappling with the tentacles may move through the area at only half normal speed. It's actually just called Black Tentacles. Since the Spell Compendium most spells lost their "names" in the spell name. And it should probably be noted that it's no longer based on your strength score. That and it's only a sorcerer/wizard spell. Doesn't say that it's for druids.
#211 cannibalsmith Mar 24, 2007 9:08:51	Another druid spell I like. Evard's menacing tentacles. Black Tentacles are not on Druid's spell list even.
#212 trevhippy Mar 24, 2007 10:59:27	It's a different spell, it's in the PHB II. It's called Evard's Menacing Tentacles. It's a different spell than Evard's other tentacle endeavours. It is on the Druid's spell list and it is third level. More importantly, who was Evard? Why was he so fascinated with tentacles? Did he have access to Hentai (sp?) before the rest of the D&D world had TV? --Trev
#213 Roflwolf Mar 24, 2007 12:11:51	It's a different spell, it's in the PHB II. It's called Evard's Menacing Tentacles. It's a different spell than Evard's other tentacle endeavours. It is on the Druid's spell list and it is third level. More importantly, who was Evard? Why was he so fascinated with tentacles? Did he have access to Hentai (sp?) before the rest of the D&D world had TV? --Trev Ah. Ok. So Menacing Tentacles are almost identical to Black Tentacles, except they use your Strength score instead of a predetermined one. Plus there's a climb bonus. lol Not bad. Thanks for clearing where it comes from. Menacing Tent's is a nasty spell. And about Evard... I'm gonna go with he's why Hentai exists. People learned of his creations and then used them for more personal reasons than to kill their enemies.
#214 greendevilman Mar 24, 2007 12:19:03	Well almost identical in that they're tentacles. But instead of springing from the ground they spring from your shoulders and help you maul things to death. So really not at all the same. But still a completely fantastic spell.
#215 Roflwolf Mar 24, 2007 14:27:37	Well almost identical in that they're tentacles. But instead of springing from the ground they spring from your shoulders and help you maul things to death. So really not at all the same. But still a completely fantastic spell. You're right. The Menacing Tentacles do more damage and don't exist outside your body. But they're still two tentacles that both get attacks of opportunity, grapple, and do damage.
#216 hogarth Mar 24, 2007 17:54:39	You're right. The Menacing Tentacles do more damage and don't exist outside your body. But they're still two tentacles that both get attacks of opportunity, grapple, and do damage. They don't grapple, they just bludgeon your foes.
#217 dirkformica Apr 02, 2007 19:20:35	Has anyone compiled a list of interesting Special Abilities that Animal and Plant type creatures have that might be used in conjunction with Enhance Wildshape from Spell Compendium? It seems that most of the Animal types lack special qualities other than attack routines. Some plant creatures have some interesting qualities and abilities, but I was wondering if this kind of information could be added to the Wildshape section. That spell almost makes a dip into Master of Many Forms interesting since only two levels gets you Giant types, and 3 levels gets you Monstrous Humanoids which opens up the Cave Troll and War Troll with their great Special Qualities like Fast Healing/Regeneration and Damage Reduction. Sad that a spell basically emulates the most interesting class feature, however.
#218 cactot Apr 02, 2007 19:31:13	Has anyone compiled a list of interesting Special Abilities that Animal and Plant type creatures have that might be used in conjunction with Enhance Wildshape from Spell Compendium? It seems that most of the Animal types lack special qualities other than attack routines. Some plant creatures have some interesting qualities and abilities, but I was wondering if this kind of information could be added to the Wildshape section. That spell almost makes a dip into Master of Many Forms interesting since only two levels gets you Giant types, and 3 levels gets you Monstrous Humanoids which opens up the Cave Troll and War Troll with their great Special Qualities like Fast Healing/Regeneration and Damage Reduction. Sad that a spell basically emulates the most interesting class feature, however. yeah, with that spell, MOMF is a 3 level class unless you have a really specific build in mind
#219 zelck_dup Apr 11, 2007 13:47:54	While paging through the Spell Compendium yesterday, I found a really nice spell that could probably make this list. It's Phantom Stag, a 5th level spell (page 157). It's very similar to Phantom Steed, with the following differences: - It's a 5th level spell. - It has a 1 standard action cast time instead of a 10 minute cast time. - It automatically ignores rough terrain, and gets Air Walking and flying when Phantom Steed does. - It doesn't get Water Walking, although that's negligible after it can fly. - It has a higher max speed (300'). - It has 40 + 5/level HP instead of 7 + 1/level (pretty important; you don't want it to die while you're flying). - It has higher AC that scales (although it's not really high enough to make a huge difference). - It has some negligible attacks and trampling. - It eventually gets to use Etherealness on you!! So you say, "Wait, this is a 5th level spell. I could be casting Animal Growth or Baleful Polymorph or Bite of the Weretiger or Call Lightning Storm or Wall of Sand with a 5th level spell. Why should I waste a 5th level spell on a mount?" Well, it's good for a lot of the reasons Phantom Steed is good. Look at the speed again. That's right, it maxes out at THREE HUNDRED FEET PER MOVE ACTION. With a double move, this thing moves SIXTY EIGHT MILES PER HOUR. This makes you the fastest thing on the battlefield. And what's better is when the mount double moves, you can make a standard action at the middle of the move. From the Rules of the Game article: Cast a Spell: You can cast a spell with a casting time of one standard action or less normally if your mount makes a single move. You can cast the spell either before or after your mount moves, and the rules assume your mount is stationary when you cast. If your mount makes a double move, then you're casting the spell while the mount is moving, and you have to make a Concentration check due to the vigorous motion (DC 10 + spell level) or lose the spell. If the mount is running, your Concentration check is more difficult due to the violent motion (DC 15 + spell level). In either case, you cast your spell when your mount has completed half its movement for the turn. Your mount's movement has no effect on how you aim most spells. If the spell requires you to make a ranged attack roll, you take penalties if your mount makes more than a single move, as noted in the section on ranged attacks. If the spell requires you to make a melee attack roll, you're subject to the limitations listed in the section on melee attacks. So basically, you just got the Mobile Spellcasting feat for the price of a fifth level spell, and you can do it with a 300' move speed. Move in up to 300' to get in range, cast a spell, and move 300' away. I hope your enemy prepared long-ranged spells or attacks... Granted, the Concentration DC could be a problem. The normal rules say casting on a double-moving mount is DC 10 + spell level, but we're moving at 68 miles per hour here. Your DM might require a DC 20 + spell level check. In this case, it would be beneficial to buy some items that improve your Concentration check. It might be possible to convince your DM to let your animal companion (if medium size or smaller) ride with you. Maybe not a black bear, but a riding dog could be reasonable. Have it take some ranks in Ride and roleplay some training beforehand. It might help to show him this video. Specific Tactics: - The Mobile Spellcasting Platform. Get very far from the enemy. Then, have the Phantom Steed take a double-move action to get in range, then retreat far away. Make a Concentration Check to cast a spell in the middle of the movement, basically duplicating the Mobile Spellcaster feat with a TON of move speed. - The Blitzkreig. Your party is facing a Wizard BBEG with some fighter lackeys. The lackeys move up and form kind of a line blocking the path to the BBEG. You and your animal companion are riding the Phantom Stag. As a Phantom Stag move action, it Air Walks over the lackeys and moves up to a couple hundred feet, bases the BBEG, and attacks. Your animal companion dismounts next to the BBEG. You free action dismount next to the BBEG and Wild Shape into something with a nasty attack (preferably grappling). Then you cast a Quickened Mass Snake's Swiftness, and the BBEG is suddenly in very deep trouble. - Avoiding AoOs. Somehow, you're in the threat range of an enemy. Have the Phantom Stag take a withdraw action or just have it suck up an AoO. Usually, I think the ruling is that unless you take a withdraw action, you could get AoO'd even if your mount withdraws. However, you can avoid that by riding for cover. Unless your threatener has something like the Exotic Weapon Master's Exotic Reach ability, you'll have cover and can't be AoO'd. - Chases, Escapes, and Overland Movement. The Phantom Stag's run speed is 1200 feet per round, or about 130 miles per hour. I don't think it's capable of being fatigued either, so it should be able to run forever. And it has trampling, in case there's a roadblock of medium-sized creatures in place with a low ceiling. If you don't want to expend the higher level spell slot, there's always the spell Bottle of Smoke (3rd level, also Spell Compendium). It doesn't have a lot of the special abilities like flying and has a lower max speed (240'). It's immune to damage, but it gets killed by a wind spell and requires you to have a hand free to hold the bottle.
#220 dirkformica Apr 13, 2007 3:38:08	Phantom Stag is another great Druid spell whose best use might have little or nothing to do with the spell itself. The fact that it is a 5th level spell that at Caster Level 18 grants the Etherealness spell (you know, that 9th level spell in the Player's Handbook) is potentially more useful than any of the mount or travel options it provides (as useful and potentially beneficial as they might be.) It's kind of like using Summon Nature's Ally to heal the party with a bunch of Unicorns (probably not what the designer's intent was.) It's also kind of funny that since Druids are divine casters, they can use Strands of Prayer Beads to bump their caster level and get access to Etherealness early. Nice addition to the handbook. Edit: Oh, and it would be a nice spell to use with a Legendary Ape shaped Druid smacking fools with his Spiked Shillelagh!
#221 a_wizard_for_breakfast Apr 13, 2007 14:51:50	Has anyone compiled a list of interesting Special Abilities that Animal and Plant type creatures have that might be used in conjunction with Enhance Wildshape from Spell Compendium? It seems that most of the Animal types lack special qualities other than attack routines. Some plant creatures have some interesting qualities and abilities, but I was wondering if this kind of information could be added to the Wildshape section. That spell almost makes a dip into Master of Many Forms interesting since only two levels gets you Giant types, and 3 levels gets you Monstrous Humanoids which opens up the Cave Troll and War Troll with their great Special Qualities like Fast Healing/Regeneration and Damage Reduction. Sad that a spell basically emulates the most interesting class feature, however. I like Desmodu Bats for the 120' blindsight. Plants are also fun because of the suite of immunities they have.
#222 zombiegleemax Apr 17, 2007 17:09:31	Greenbound: If you took Greenbound (LEoF), things are a bit different. Obviously, you're going to want to summon animals, and the bonuses make multiple lower-level creatures, particularly grapplers, more powerful. As such, you'll spend a lot of time summoning d3 grappler creatures. Remember, you can still summon utility creatures like Unicorns or Pixies. They just don't benefit from Greenbound. PROTIP: If you cast Speak With Plants, you can have your Greenbound summons cast Entangle or Wall of Thorns for you. Take advantage of this! Question, has anyone dealt with a DM (or as a DM rules on this) in allowing the spell Plant Growth to function as Animal Growth for those with Greenbound summoning? Since this makes a broken feat more broken, have any DM's house ruled that Plant Growth cast from a 5th level slot could mimic Animal Growth for these summons? Just looking for a buff spell for a Greenbound summoner.
#223 zombiegleemax Apr 20, 2007 23:41:24	Something I noticed today with regards to low-level animal companions. The riding dog is, as previously mentioned, superior to the wolf. However, the wolf does have one advantage - it advances to a Large creature at 4 HD! Going to Large from Medium adds +8 strength, so the Wolf gains quite a bit with this upgrade over the riding dog. The dog still has the benefits of being a more or less "normal" animal for encounters in a city or the like.
#224 zelck_dup Apr 20, 2007 23:46:58	Something I noticed today with regards to low-level animal companions. The riding dog is, as previously mentioned, superior to the wolf. However, the wolf does have one advantage - it advances to a Large creature at 4 HD! Going to Large from Medium adds +8 strength, so the Wolf gains quite a bit with this upgrade over the riding dog. The dog still has the benefits of being a more or less "normal" animal for encounters in a city or the like. No, it doesn't. The larger ones represent larger and stronger wolves than usual; an average one won't grow as it gains HD.
#225 cannibalsmith Apr 21, 2007 2:10:48	Is riding dog's greater strength superior to wolf's free tripping?
#226 CubeKnight Apr 21, 2007 5:23:38	Well, actually, if your riding dog is trained for war, he also has Trip.
#227 cannibalsmith Apr 21, 2007 6:04:15	Written where?
#228 shubniggurath Apr 21, 2007 6:45:00	your friendly monster manual (riding dog entry)... or the SRD
#229 jha85 Apr 21, 2007 9:44:15	Written where? d20srd: Combat If trained for war, these animals can make trip attacks just as wolves do (see the Wolf entry). A riding dog can fight while carrying a rider, but the rider cannot also attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride check.
#230 caelic Apr 21, 2007 10:12:30	No, it doesn't. The larger ones represent larger and stronger wolves than usual; an average one won't grow as it gains HD. Zelck is correct on this. The animal advancement rules in the MM are not used on an animal companion or special mount. Citations upon request, but I don't have time to dig for it just at the moment.
#231 corrin Apr 21, 2007 21:52:38	Where does it say that animal companions don't grow in size as they gain HD? "Advancing a monster" from MM goes through the mechanics of increasing HD meaning an increase in size. Is the "Animal Companions advancing HD don't increase size" a common sense reaction, or is it actually in the rules somewhere?
#232 tacticsplanner Apr 21, 2007 22:30:04	A wolf animal companion doesn't become size Large when its Hit Dice increases to 4, nor is it limited to the "normal" Hit Dice cap for wolves. So some good news and some bad.
#233 cannibalsmith Apr 22, 2007 1:45:35	Is the "Animal Companions advancing HD don't increase size" a common sense reaction, or is it actually in the rules somewhere? Please show me where the opposite is said. In Improving Monsters we clearly see that size increases are "paid" for with CR separately from HD. Thus I interpret Advancement as recommended minimum HD for a creature of that size.
#234 votan Apr 22, 2007 7:38:46	Please show me where the opposite is said. In Improving Monsters we clearly see that size increases are "paid" for with CR separately from HD. Thus I interpret Advancement as recommended minimum HD for a creature of that size. I always get worried about highly nuanced arguments to suggest that a mechanic that would work (using a straightforward reading of the rules) will not work because of a subtle combination of factors. I am not saying tha tyou are wrong, but I'd have expected this to be more straightforward in the Druid write-up if it were the case.
#235 cannibalsmith Apr 22, 2007 7:56:41	Well, I'm convinced that my approach is more straightforward. Like, I read Animal Companion rule of the Druid class and follow it without interpretation. Bonus HD Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion’s base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice. See? No mention of size increase.
#236 cru Apr 22, 2007 13:12:59	Indeed, companion does not grow: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070206a The animal companion gains extra Hit Dice as noted in the table on page 36 of the Player's Handbook. The companion gains the full benefit from increased Hit Dice, including increased base attack, base saves, skill points, and feats. The animal companion, however, does not increase in size (any more than you do when adding Hit Dice for your class levels). Bummer
#237 zelck_dup Apr 22, 2007 15:06:37	Indeed, companion does not grow: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070206a The animal companion gains extra Hit Dice as noted in the table on page 36 of the Player's Handbook. The companion gains the full benefit from increased Hit Dice, including increased base attack, base saves, skill points, and feats. The animal companion, however, does not increase in size (any more than you do when adding Hit Dice for your class levels). Bummer I actually like that. Growing animal companions are a pain to deal with in dungeons.
#238 mercury529 Apr 22, 2007 15:15:14	"The animal companion, however, does not increase in size (any more than you do when adding Hit Dice for your class levels)." Well I think this pretty clearly says it... apparently our characters are supposed to be getting larger as they gain HD. All fear the Colossal Gnome Shadowcraft Mage!!!
#239 cannibalsmith Apr 22, 2007 15:25:02	I actually like that. Growing animal companions are a pain to deal with in dungeons. I can picture it: You' get a levelup while half way through a narrow tunnel and suddenly your companion expands.
#240 corrin Apr 23, 2007 12:30:55	Hey, it'd be fun to have your animal companion suddenly grow in the middle of a tight tunnel - "oh no, did I prepare "Reduce Animal" today?" Anyway, thanks for clearing that up for me. I completely missed that Rules of the Game article. Guess I'd better re-work my animal companion's stats and take off that +8 Str, +4 Con, +4 NA for increasing in size.
#241 grimmypoo Apr 24, 2007 1:48:26	Did you guys catch these great core-only wildshape forms? Giant Octopus and Giant Squid. 8 or 10 tentacle attacks per round with a 20ft or 30ft reach. That's a hell of a range for Attacks of Opportunity! Apparently they can be used on land as well as in water because Giant Octopi have a land speed of 20ft. Sure you have the Aquatic subtype and might "drown" without any water. but that's 2x your Con score. I think the fight will be over in 26 rounds. Or maybe start grappling an enemy as a Polar Bear, then with Fast Wildshape, turn into a Giant Octopus and add constriction damage with 8 tentacles in mid-grapple? Tightening the noose, so to speak. What do you think?
#242 cannibalsmith Apr 24, 2007 1:54:33	I can't wait till my druid gets Large wild shape.
#243 zombiegleemax Apr 24, 2007 11:44:00	Has anyone seen the potential for the Warbeast template found in Monster Manual II? As long as the creature is not already war trained (leaving out the warhorse - not entirely certain about the riding dog!), it can grant +1 HD, +3 STR and CON, +2 WIS and some bonuses to ride checks. All you need is a DC 20 handle animal check and 2 months. It's a great way to power up an animal companion just a bit more.
#244 zombiegleemax Apr 24, 2007 11:58:56	Has anyone seen the potential for the Warbeast template found in Monster Manual II? As long as the creature is not already war trained (leaving out the warhorse - not entirely certain about the riding dog!), it can grant +1 HD, +3 STR and CON, +2 WIS and some bonuses to ride checks. All you need is a DC 20 handle animal check and 2 months. It's a great way to power up an animal companion just a bit more. Actually yes, here is a sample Riding Dog used as a mount for a small Druid. Note this makes use of both the Magebred (ECS) and Warbeast (MM2) templates. Chopper (Bull Mastiff) - Riding Dog mount (Magebred Warbeast): HD: 3d8+con Str: 22, Dex: 17, Con: 20, Int: 2, Wis: 14, Cha: 6 Init: +3 Speed: 60' AC: 23 (10+6 natural+3 dex+3 armor), touch 13, flat 19 BAB/Grapple: +2/+8 FA: Bite +8 melee (1d6+9) Space/Reach: 5'/5' Fort: 8, Ref: 6, Will: 3 Feats: Alertness, Track, Endurance SA: Trip SQ: Low-light vision, Scent, Combative Mount, Excellent Learner Skills: Jump: 12, Listen: 7, Spot: 7, Swim: 7, Survival: 2 (+4 when tracking by scent) Notes: Can learn up to 8 tricks DC for handle animal checks is reduced by 2, and a +4 bonus is added to all handle animal/wild empathy checks Time to train a new trick is reduced by one week A +2 bonus on all ride checks Proficient with light, medium, and heavy barding Linked, share spells, Evasion Barding: MW Studded Leather: +3 AC, +5 dex, 0 ACP, Speed - 60', weight - 20 lbs Military Saddle: +2 ride checks
#245 phaedrusxy Apr 24, 2007 12:07:57	How can it have a base attack bonus of +5, but only 3 hit dice?
#246 zombiegleemax Apr 24, 2007 13:57:11	How can it have a base attack bonus of +5, but only 3 hit dice? Mistake in editing, was bringing it down from a level 6 druid that I had made. Will fix that now.
#247 tsuyoshikentsu May 28, 2007 0:19:47	Bump. First off, the main post severely needs to be edited. A lot is out of date. Second off, it should be mentioned that no matter your books, no matter your game -- barring houserules -- you're always familiar with what you can summon via SNA.
#248 The_Orange_Pet May 28, 2007 0:48:48	My DM has ruled on familiarity as this. In order to have familiarity with any certain form you must pass a knowledge check related to the forms type with a DC of 10+HD. This check is able to be made once per char lvl per form. I think it works well and suggest trying it. Is there a way to make this new kind of "clasping" druid effective in a setting where these custom 1.5x cost multi-items aren't allowed? My DM won't condone they're creation or use so how am I to get all the needed gear un-melded without the GP to buy 8x clasps?
#249 ancalimohtar May 30, 2007 2:00:57	A compilation of things to be added to the OP: Arcane Heirophant book http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11558048#post11558048 More cheese from AZNsupermarket: few things: 1) I would add dragonborn of bahamut to the list of possible races. A buomon who becomes a dragonborn of bahamut has the following stats: +2 wis +2 con -2 cha -2 dex and no LA. RAW they would also lose their vow of silence. That makes them a damn good druid 2) list of all races with bonus to wis and LA +0 in case you want a more complete list: Anthropomorphic Bat: -4 Str +6 Wis -2 Cha, small, 5 ft. (fly 20 ft. average), blindsense (ex), druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Lizard: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 20 ft., druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Monkey: -4 Str +2 Dex +4Wis -2 Cha, small, 30 ft., druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Rat: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 15 ft., rogue, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Raven: -6 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 10 ft. (fly 30ft. poor), rogue, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Toad: -4 Str -2 Dex +6 Wis -2 Cha, small, 5 ft., cleric, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Anthropomorphic Weasel: -4 Str +2 Dex +4 Wis -4 Cha, small, 20 ft., attach (ex), druid, monstrous humanoid, savage species pg.215 Jermlaine: -6 Str +6 Dex -2 Con -2 Int +6 Wis -6 Cha, tiny, 40 ft., rogue, fey, monster manual 2 pg.131 Buomman: +2 Wis -2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., monk, humanoid (buomman, extraplanar), planar handbook pg.08 "Lesser" Aasimar +2 Wis +2 Cha, medium, 30 ft., light (sp), paladin, humanoid (planetouched), player’s guide to faerun pg.191 3) Another good race to list is a dragonwrought kobold. In races of the dragon, it says that they no longer gain penalties, but still gain the bonuses for increasing age categories. 4) You should probably add Constrictor Snake (MM 3.5 pg 280) to the list of good grapplers. I don't know too much about this, but I have been assured that they were one of the best wildshaping grapplers (using pre-errata rules at least) Errataing the OP: The authors' favorite forms are in bold. These are the forms you're going to want to trade up to. In general, a plant form is better than an animal form when all other things are equal, because of the pile of immunities that come with plant form. Why would a druid get plant immunities when wild shaping into a plant creature? Those are special qualities, not (Ex) special attacks. Wilding clasps updated to 3.5 in MIC Beastskin enchantment on armor (+2, better and cheaper than Wild, which is +3) A good spell: Another druid spell I like. Evard's menacing tentacles (EDIT : LOCATED IN PHB II, PAGE 113). It's pretty broken for druids and imagine it will get nerfed but it gives you... Two tentacles with a 10' reach that you can direct as a free action. Their attack roll is based off your BAB + your strength. So...wildshape into something strong and you have two more primary attacks dealing 1d8+str. Plus, each tentacle can make one attack of opportunity per round. Awesome sauce. On Phantom Stag: http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12059999&postcount=219 On Wildshaping into Giant Octopus/Giant Squid for grappling (even on land): Did you guys catch these great core-only wildshape forms? Giant Octopus and Giant Squid. 8 or 10 tentacle attacks per round with a 20ft or 30ft reach. That's a hell of a range for Attacks of Opportunity! Apparently they can be used on land as well as in water because Giant Octopi have a land speed of 20ft. Sure you have the Aquatic subtype and might "drown" without any water. but that's 2x your Con score. I think the fight will be over in 26 rounds. Or maybe start grappling an enemy as a Polar Bear, then with Fast Wildshape, turn into a Giant Octopus and add constriction damage with 8 tentacles in mid-grapple? Tightening the noose, so to speak.
#250 zombiegleemax Jun 01, 2007 0:34:10	Can someone explain to me why this guide says that if you turn into a Treant you get plant immunities? I thought with wild shape/alternate form rules, you don't get the creatures type or subtype so you would not get plant type traits either?
#251 ancalimohtar Jun 04, 2007 7:01:46	From Complete Champion, a cape that turns Wildshape into a swift action. Saves you like two feats. Also, footwear that lets your summon nature's ally A function as summon nature's ally A+1. Neat.
#252 agarwaenimmortal Jun 04, 2007 14:49:39	Greetings! Been playing with Goliaths and loving it... Now, I'd like to play with a Stonespeaker Guardian, but I've never played a Druid before, so I'm kinda blind here... I'd like it to be a a Druid specialized on melee fighting... We play by using 28 point buy, and we use PHB, DMG, MM (all of them), Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, Magic Item Compedium, Spell Compedium, Races of Series and Complete series (I don't have Complete Champion, but plan on using it). It will be a PC with 9 character levels... Oh, and my DM only lets us have a second PrC after the first one we take is complete... Thanks!
#253 jackmojo Jun 04, 2007 18:25:28	From Complete Champion, a cape that turns Wildshape into a swift action. Saves you like two feats. Also, footwear that lets your summon nature's ally A function as summon nature's ally A+1. Neat. If you have it handy, do you know what those items are named by chance? Jack
#254 zombiegleemax Jun 04, 2007 18:32:31	Can someone explain to me why this guide says that if you turn into a Treant you get plant immunities? I thought with wild shape/alternate form rules, you don't get the creatures type or subtype so you would not get plant type traits either? Guide needs updating. You used to get those. Also, do the footwear and the cape continue to apply in wildshape?
#255 zombiegleemax Jun 04, 2007 19:50:20	Second off, it should be mentioned that no matter your books, no matter your game -- barring houserules -- you're always familiar with what you can summon via SNA. Really? Can you point out to me where, either in the Wild Shape text block or the SNA text block it states that SNA auto-grants familiarity? Unfortunately, familiarity is undefined. It is entirely up to the DM as to what constitutes familiarity.
#256 bensan Jun 04, 2007 20:25:56	Really? Can you point out to me where, either in the Wild Shape text block or the SNA text block it states that SNA auto-grants familiarity? Unfortunately, familiarity is undefined. It is entirely up to the DM as to what constitutes familiarity. I assume because you can study whatever you want off the SNA list at leisure until you've met your DM's standards of familiarity.
#257 cannibalsmith Jun 04, 2007 21:56:14	I'd like it to be a a Druid specialized on melee fighting... Optimization requests should go into their own threads. If you have it handy, do you know what those items are named by chance? Mantle of the Beast and Boots of the Wanderer
#258 zombiegleemax Jun 04, 2007 22:00:50	From Complete Champion, a cape that turns Wildshape into a swift action. Saves you like two feats. Also, footwear that lets your summon nature's ally A function as summon nature's ally A+1. Neat. Aye, The name is ARMOR OF THE BEAST +1 Wild Studded Leather +1 wildshape/day I am sure you can convince your DM to let this be a Dragonhide Armor for the cost difference between Dragonhide Fullplate and Studded Leather. MANTLE OF THE BEAST Use wildshape as a swift action and +1 enhancement bonus on natural weapons while wildshaped. This is an interesting one because the RAW doesn't specificially say that the item works when you wildshape. The problem is that the items specifically says that you get the enhancement bonus while wildshaped. I'd say that it does work. RING OF THE BEAST bascially, use level 1 spell slot summon to summon nature's ally 2, or SNA II and you get a SNA III for no extra cost. This ability still works while wildshaped. I can see DMs growing gray hair over this. Now, you can't cast this on your top level spell and get the higher level above. Did I mention a lot of gray hair? I mostly see this as saving you from having to use your highest level slots (because it does nothing for them) Set bonus: +1 effective wildshape level and bonus to wild empathy. The example is an 11th level Druid becoming a plant. There is also a specific divine focus for Nature that gives you a +1 Conjuration (summoning) called Nature's Children. BTW, there is a +2 Beasthide ability from Magic Item book, but I don't like it. It allows you to have the armor bonus, but you actually have the armor appear on your body. Attaching a wilding clasp seems cheaper use to me. As for that Large and Strong (or whatever it's called) from Complete Champion. I can see that being useful on with Goliaths and that's about it. Mr. Starfire
#259 melil13 Jun 04, 2007 22:15:04	we need a new druid guide ... and i would like to point out ... the last wild shape revision is horrible. I like the idea of having to roll to see what new shapes you get ... that is a great limit on a druid that dosn't completely suck. Whats the point of turning into anything other then to get +Dex/+Str ... con from your new shape is pointless except for a fort save ... a save that the druid was already good at. As i see it being familiar with an animal means you know what they can do ... so you would know how to use its traits.
#260 jamven_the_fighter Jun 04, 2007 22:20:56	Wait, where is the latest revision? You have to randomly discover what form you take? ..... ..... No, seriously... ..... What?!
#261 zombiegleemax Jun 04, 2007 23:52:32	Random wildshape = not useful. I promise you that many people on this particular board would think it was even slightly useful. It is like telling a Wizard, "Hey, you have to turn into an Ooze if you roll a 93 on a d100." I would say that it would make things annoyingly interesting though. Oh, the guide doesn't need much updating. There has been little change in many months and still has a lot of useful information. Mr. Starfire
#262 cannibalsmith Jun 05, 2007 0:38:13	Random wildshape is outright dangerous. Like Rod of Wonder. Shaped into a shark when you needed bear.
#263 votan Jun 05, 2007 7:55:04	I assume because you can study whatever you want off the SNA list at leisure until you've met your DM's standards of familiarity. That would be my view on the matter as well. You need to have a strange view of familiarity if the critters that you can summon almost at will do not count. It is true that there is not a formal definition of familiarity that I can find (there is knowledge:nature but it has the disadvantage of suggesting that you might be familiar with the horse that you care for every day if you roll low). But I'd tend to agree that, barring a role-playing reason from the players, that the SNA list kind of makes up the minimum creature form list. [it might have solved problems if it was the list . . .]
#264 agarwaenimmortal Jun 05, 2007 8:30:56	Optimization requests should go into their own threads. Well, I started a thread with this question, and the answer I got was someone sending me to this thread... I have a Stonespeaker specific thread, but unfortunately, I got no pratical answers...
#265 cannibalsmith Jun 05, 2007 9:17:39	Well, I started a thread with this question, and the answer I got was someone sending me to this thread. Oh. Well, just follow the book. Take that substitution level, pump up your grapple, pick some good buffing spells, shape into something with Improved Grab, and pulverize your opposition. Monk 1 / Druid X / Stonespeaker Guardian Y
#266 zombiegleemax Jun 12, 2007 4:18:22	Maybe this was mentioned somewhere, but I can't see it. The 5th level Druid spell 'Control winds'. My 12th level Druid can cast it in one standard action, and everything in 1000 foot area is killed. Small, medium and large creatures are totally stuffed, larger ones are knocked flat, for a good long duration. There just isn't any spell in any class anywhere near as good as this. It even specifically states you knock down all non-fortified buildings with it, so in one quick spell you can level cities.
#267 lael Jun 14, 2007 0:09:44	I'm sure I saw it somewhere, but lost it now and now not quite sure if I had seen it - you know how it goes. Is there something that lets you take an earth elemental as your animal companinion? Alternatly, is there some subsitution level/s for not having a animal companion?
#268 zombiegleemax Jun 14, 2007 0:20:01	I'm trying to build a Planar Shepherd in my friends campaign, what do you guys think would be an optimal plane to choose? I'd also like to take the substitution levels for 'planar druid' for roleplaying purposes. Preferably Human, with 1 flaw. I'd like to make him a summoning druid.
#269 grimmypoo Jun 14, 2007 1:09:26	Holy moley! I didn't realize how powerful Control Winds is. Once you hit level 15, you can cast Call Lightning and change your dice to d10s too by using the tornado from Control Winds to fuel it. 6d6 damage from the tornado from Control Winds, then 3d10 from the call lightning (or Call Lightning Storm). I'm gonna add this to the Druid Spell Combos thread too.
#270 CubeKnight Jun 14, 2007 1:42:00	I'm sure I saw it somewhere, but lost it now and now not quite sure if I had seen it - you know how it goes. Is there something that lets you take an earth elemental as your animal companinion? Alternatly, is there some subsitution level/s for not having a animal companion? I think Goliaths, in Races of Stone, can get a pseudo-earthish animal companion. Also in Complete Mage or Dragon Magic (can't remember) there's an Elemental Companion variant.
#271 Roflwolf Jun 14, 2007 5:47:04	I'm sure I saw it somewhere, but lost it now and now not quite sure if I had seen it - you know how it goes. Is there something that lets you take an earth elemental as your animal companinion? Alternatly, is there some subsitution level/s for not having a animal companion? Yes, there's the Elemental Companion in the Complete Mage. The only variant I've seen where the druid doesn't have an animal companion is in the PHB2 and you lose wild shape as well. Substitution levels, never seen. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, though. I'm trying to build a Planar Shepherd in my friends campaign, what do you guys think would be an optimal plane to choose? I'd also like to take the substitution levels for 'planar druid' for roleplaying purposes. Preferably Human, with 1 flaw. I'd like to make him a summoning druid. I highly recommend going to the Planar Shephard Handbook for awesome info. Most optimal is debatable, but if you're capable of it: Fernia. You can wild shape into a Efreeti and get three free wishes a day. There's also a bunch of other good fire based monsters in there. But still, read through that thread to get a better idea of what's optimal for you because there's a lot of crazy destruction choices. And I fully agree with Melil - the guide should either be updated or a new thread be made. I wouldn't mind collecting all the info and organizing it, but I don't have the time to do that.
#272 jameswilliamogle Jun 18, 2007 14:15:52	Another ok druid addition, particularly in the mid-level range. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebed/20070618 So, take Extra Wild Shape, and each of the energy feats, and Elemental Essance a couple of times, and get that much more damage. Acid and Cold would be my choices. Starts to taper off in power by the time you can actually get them, though.
#273 lael Jun 18, 2007 22:37:57	Cool thanks for that guys. Just noticed Elemental Essence in complete champion too
#274 the_shaman Jun 21, 2007 2:53:19	BTW, I do not think that I have seen it, so I will add: greenbound summoning has been errata'd as a +2 metamagic.
#275 friendlyfrog Jun 21, 2007 3:09:46	BTW, I do not think that I have seen it, so I will add: greenbound summoning has been errata'd as a +2 metamagic. Could you mind telling where, as I haven't seen that?
#276 phoenixinferno Jun 21, 2007 3:10:57	BTW, I do not think that I have seen it, so I will add: greenbound summoning has been errata'd as a +2 metamagic. That ain't no errata I ever heard of.
#277 bensan Jun 21, 2007 3:12:44	I recall reading a statement by the feat's designer to the effect that it was originally intended as a metamagic with level adjustment, but I do not believe there is errata of that nature.
#278 zombiegleemax Jun 21, 2007 5:48:57	Hey guys – not really one to recommend stuff to you CoPers but I thought I would mention a feat that I love to have on well any character but Druids especially. ‘Quick Reconnoitre’ Complete Adventure – Free Listen + Spot check each round and + 2 Initiative. Grogmir
#279 Omen_of_Peace Jun 21, 2007 20:27:49	MANTLE OF THE BEAST Use wildshape as a swift action and +1 enhancement bonus on natural weapons while wildshaped. This is an interesting one because the RAW doesn't specificially say that the item works when you wildshape. The problem is that the items specifically says that you get the enhancement bonus while wildshaped. I'd say that it does work. About how much does this one cost ? I'm not sure if giving the exact price is a violation, in which case please just round it above by some random amount ; I'd just like to know how much cash to set aside.
#280 tsuyoshikentsu Jun 21, 2007 22:01:36	So apparently, Ring of the Beast and the goliath racial sub stack, the way I'm reading it. So cast a SNA I and get an earth creature from the SNA III list. Or cast SNA XIII and get two elder earth elementals. With Rashemei, this gets disgusting.
#281 cannibalsmith Jun 22, 2007 1:23:10	About how much does this one cost? 18000 gp
#282 ancalimohtar Jun 23, 2007 3:07:29	I just read the cave triceratops description. The "Triceratops Shuffle" doesn't work. Trample is a full-round action. It makes no mention of including a charge. It says, simply, that the creature moves up to double its speed through all squares the target is occupying. You can either Powerful Charge, or you can Trample. You cannot do both. The cave triceratops is no longer that awesome. Edit: Also, brown/polar bear is level 6 instead of 8.
#283 CubeKnight Jun 23, 2007 5:05:35	I just read the cave triceratops description. The "Triceratops Shuffle" doesn't work. Trample is a full-round action. It makes no mention of including a charge. It says, simply, that the creature moves up to double its speed through all squares the target is occupying. You can either Powerful Charge, or you can Trample. You cannot do both. The cave triceratops is no longer that awesome. Edit: Also, brown/polar bear is level 6 instead of 8. IIRC, this was brought up earlier. He doesn't mean charging *and* trampling at the same time, he means Charge, and then use Trample to do damage again and get in Charge range.
#284 cannibalsmith Jun 23, 2007 5:15:40	As in round 1: charge round 2: trample over and away, then turn around if enemy alive goto 1 ? Like a rolling-pin. :D
#285 zombiegleemax Jun 23, 2007 6:52:52	Edit: Also, brown/polar bear is level 6 instead of 8. Brown/Polar bears are both large. Therefore require the Wildshape (Large) ability. Druids get this at level 8. Therefore you can wildshape into them at level 8 and higher. Not level 6.
#286 _v_ Jun 23, 2007 8:01:33	Alternatly, is there some subsitution level/s for not having a animal companion? Yes, there's the Elemental Companion in the Complete Mage. The only variant I've seen where the druid doesn't have an animal companion is in the PHB2 and you lose wild shape as well. Substitution levels, never seen. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, though. There's a class variant (so not a substitution level) that gives up the Animal Companion class feature: Druidic Avenger (Unearthed Arcana, pg. 51)
#287 antendren Jun 23, 2007 13:03:15	There's also the Shifter substitution in Races of Eberron.
#288 dirkformica Jun 23, 2007 19:45:53	Here's an interesting choice for Vermin Wildshape. Monstrous Crabs have 7 HD and you get a +14 Grapple Modifier + Constrict. It also has Powerful Claws which apparently means you get str +1.5 on both, including your Constrict. 8 Natural Armor too. Not bad for a mid-level game. Too bad it's Aquatic (although I guess with the Enhance Wildshape spell you might be able to get the Amphibious ability.)
#289 zombiegleemax Jun 24, 2007 21:08:11	So apparently, Ring of the Beast and the goliath racial sub stack, the way I'm reading it. So cast a SNA I and get an earth creature from the SNA III list. Or cast SNA XIII and get two elder earth elementals. With Rashemei, this gets disgusting. Yes, they should stack, but I doubt it will make it very far without getting the nerf bat... It is quite disguishing and something you shoudl only pull out on your DM occasionally. Otherwise, it will miss the game up... but it is a good way Earth Elemental powerful. DArian
#290 tealgorthian Jul 07, 2007 21:42:40	I found a neat little item in MiC that I thought should be mentioned here. The summoner's totem. For a mere 3,100gp you can cast, as a swift action, and 3rd level or lower spell on any creature you summon with Summon Nature's Ally. Pretty neat.
#291 zombiegleemax Jul 08, 2007 0:24:43	Hmm... Seems kind of odd... The summoner's totem doesn't appear to have an X/day bit. However, there is this little problem... "When you summon a single animal". The main type of person who would benefit from this item also benefits from Greenbound. Guess which I want more...
#292 tealgorthian Jul 08, 2007 0:37:30	Hmm... Seems kind of odd... The summoner's totem doesn't appear to have an X/day bit. However, there is this little problem... "When you summon a single animal". The main type of person who would benefit from this item also benefits from Greenbound. Guess which I want more... I thought it did. I could have been wrong. I'm hyped up on pain pills. I broke three toes :P Greenbound is setting specific, and broken to boot. If you aren't playing Forgotten Realms, the Totem is good. If your DM fiats Greenbound, the Totem is good. Overall, its a cheap way to get a fast buff on a summoned animal for people that want to optimize without breaking the game with Greenbound. (which is stupidly powerful. It needs to be a Metamagic feat with a level adjustment)
#293 wolfhati Jul 08, 2007 3:10:51	Another good possibility for high level wildshape is the huge dire bear (17 HD). More Str, Con, damage, armor and reach than a normal dire bear. I don't know the stats of a dire polar bear, but it's definitely a good option. A huge Dire Lion might be nice as well for pouncing.
#294 endevor Jul 08, 2007 12:49:11	You can't use advanced animals as wild shape forms, you have to be a regular specimen.
#295 Roflwolf Jul 08, 2007 18:07:51	You can't use advanced animals as wild shape forms, you have to be a regular specimen. Depends on your DM. Let's not get into all the broken stuff I can do in my DMs games (granted, I don't abuse or use most of the stuff... but we bend most of the rules around druids anyways). Don't forget that the books are only guidelines. ;)
#296 GhostStepper Jul 08, 2007 19:53:10	I havent seen any mention of combining Aberration Wildshape and Enhance Wildshape (maybe i missed it?). A couple of things ive been having fun with lately: - Using EWS and turing into a Mimic! Not only can your druid turn into animals, aberrations, plants and elementals but now you can turn into any object you want at will (limited by your mass of course)! - Using EWS and turning into a Will-o'-the-Wisp. People often forget that the WotW is an aberration. Now you've got 50' (perfect) fly speed, invisibility at will, immunity to magic and a respecable AC...all day long! Just float somewhere and summon creatures or use battlefield control spells without anyone seeing you!
#297 Omen_of_Peace Jul 13, 2007 4:56:21	I think those two combos (and more !) are already in the Master of Many Forms handbook.
#298 manyfist Jul 13, 2007 7:24:37	If you were to opt out the Wildshape, and all its shapes..etc. What could be used to fill the gap? However not the UA variants, since they suck. *This seems to be the best place to put this question, don't lynch me if I put this in the wrong place*
#299 tealgorthian Jul 13, 2007 10:55:33	If you were to opt out the Wildshape, and all its shapes..etc. What could be used to fill the gap? However not the UA variants, since they suck. *This seems to be the best place to put this question, don't lynch me if I put this in the wrong place* The Shifter level sub isn't half bad. I like the Wild-Shapeless druid from UA. Wis to AC? Sweet.
#300 tealgorthian Jul 17, 2007 13:29:30	I found an animal companion/alternate class feature that is worth mentioning in Dragon Magic there is the Phynxkin Companion. Its a pretty good combat style pet (like a cat), and instead of devotion it gives you immunity to fear effects for both you and the companion. At 7th level you can upgrade this to a Dire Phynxkin. The only problem is you can never have anything else. They both get pounce. Not bad, but the immunity to fear is gold, IMO.
#301 lifeblender Jul 21, 2007 20:31:44	I can't find where it states that a Roc is an allowed animal companion. There are some notes about it being from Sandstorm, but I don't have that book. I know that Roc itself is in the MM. Is there a larger list of alternate companions in Sandstorm? Also, is any feat required to have a Roc as a mount?
#302 dirkformica Jul 21, 2007 22:12:56	Wasteland animal companion rules from Sandstorm indicate a Roc is an appropriate companion with a Druid level of 16. The Triceratops is also available. No feats required.
#303 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2007 11:56:12	Can someone explain Venomfire to me? The 3rd level spell, I don't have the Serpent Kingdom book yet
#304 Previn Jul 30, 2007 12:20:04	Just wanted to add in a note on the Plant Companions in Dragon #357. An interesting choice, but I'm not yet sure of how it manages to stack up against a more mundane companion.
#305 Previn Jul 30, 2007 12:23:00	Can someone explain Venomfire to me? The 3rd level spell, I don't have the Serpent Kingdom book yet Venomfire magically enhances a creature's existing venom/poison effect by adding significant amounts of uncapped acid damage. A direct quoting of the spell would be frowned upon by the powers that be.
#306 cannibalsmith Jul 30, 2007 12:50:27	Just wanted to add in a note on the Plant Companions in Dragon #357. An interesting choice, but I'm not yet sure of how it manages to stack up against a more mundane companion. Plants have lots of immunities and often have powerful special abilities, like, for example, Regeneration.
#307 Previn Jul 30, 2007 12:54:51	Plants have lots of immunities and often have powerful special abilities, like, for example, Regeneration. It's not a "pick a plant creature" type of ability. It's a "this is your plant creature you can improve it in these ways" ability. That being said it can pick up fast healing 1.
#308 zombiegleemax Jul 30, 2007 20:41:20	There isn't any info on this, but what would be good things to turn into if i have the feat Assume Supernatural Ability, and the spell Enhance Wild Shape? Oh and I can turn into any animal, humanoid, and monstrous humanoid small-large.
#309 cannibalsmith Jul 31, 2007 1:34:55	Shambling Mound! Assume his Immunity to Electricity. Edit: Oh, wait, it's Ex. Never mind then.
#310 lanoitakude Jul 31, 2007 1:59:16	Hey, I've been utilizing the Druid Handbook for some time now, but there is one topic I feel should be included: Animal Companion feat choices. If a player keeps an animal companion for many levels, it is possible to acquire many bonus feats for said pet. What are some good choices for every animal companion, specific powerful combos, and etc? -Virulant Poison (or ability focus) for the Swindlespitter comes to mind. -Weapon Finesse seems like a great choice for many animals with high dex. -Light Armor prof. seems like it would be valuable too. -I wonder if an Ape could take Simple (or martial) Weapon Prof? -Possibly taking some feats from Tome of Battle to acquire Maneuvers and Stances? Those are just some of my thoughts on the subject.
#311 cannibalsmith Jul 31, 2007 2:10:41	I'm working on it.
#312 Previn Jul 31, 2007 23:03:41	I'm working on it. I would point out that a Blink Dog can't be taken by a druid due to alignment restrictions.
#313 cannibalsmith Aug 01, 2007 3:47:59	I'm AFB. Does the feat require you to have matching alignment with your exalted companion? And even then: Alignment: Usually lawful good
#314 Previn Aug 01, 2007 8:28:44	I'm AFB. Does the feat require you to have matching alignment with your exalted companion? And even then: Afraid so. It specifically states that a blink dog would only be open to a ranger due to alignment as well.
#315 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2007 10:46:41	My DM doesnt use the ERRATA. So i was wondering i love playing a Druid 20 but in this new game starting i was thinking about 1Cleric/ 19Druid and use DMM and get Extra turning for every feat except natural spell. What do you guys think? Not worth it? I was thinking about DMM Persistant which i could get at first lvl with this DM. Are those persistant spells i can cast worth that 1 lvl? remember my DM doesnt use the ERRATa so DMM is as worded in Complete Divine. i posted this in the other druid then then thought i should have put it here instead.
#316 cannibalsmith Aug 01, 2007 12:39:04	How does the original DMM differ from the errated one? DMM Persist is worth it, but I'm not sure it warrants taking Extra Turning. See if you can boost that Cha score before resorting to spending the precious, precious feat slots. Ask your DM if you gain additional turn attempts from temporary Cha boosts like Eagle's Splendor. Also, what about Sacred Exorcist? Or do you want to persist starting level one?
#317 Omen_of_Peace Aug 01, 2007 12:54:50	How does the original DMM differ from the errated one? You don't need to know the metamagic feat you apply it to....... @Taskmaster : I assume you're playing in a very high-power game ? What level are you starting at ? Be it with Cleric or with Sacred Exorcist, you'll be extremely powerful anyway.
#318 cannibalsmith Aug 01, 2007 13:11:00	You don't need to know the metamagic feat you apply it to. o_O Then my only suggestion is to use DMM sparingly lest you disrupt the game.
#319 seeker_of_truth_02 Aug 01, 2007 13:15:24	You don't need to know the metamagic feat you apply it to....... @Taskmaster : I assume you're playing in a very high-power game ? What level are you starting at ? Be it with Cleric or with Sacred Exorcist, you'll be extremely powerful anyway. Also IIRC it just took turn attempts not turn undead, also it didn't specify the spell had to be divine. If I'm right you should definitely consider taking domains that grant special turn attempts.
#320 zombiegleemax Aug 01, 2007 13:18:39	we are only starting at lvl 2 but it will move fast. I just like to persistant a lot of buff spells and such. I will also be looking for Night Sticks. I just wasnt sure if that 1 Cleric lvl is worth it i assume it is but just wanted to check. because it would end up 1Cleric/19Druid
#321 zombiegleemax Aug 02, 2007 14:06:36	Hey guys! By just using wildshape or a nonspell druidic ability, is there a way for you to change into a giant? I know that you can do this through the Master of Many Forms but I might not get the chance to get this PrC so as a plain druid, is this possible? Feats perhaps?
#322 cannibalsmith Aug 03, 2007 1:34:37	No. With the current existing splat material you can shape into animal, magical beast, aberration, dragon, elemental, outsider, or vermin. Oh, and in 3.0 there was the Oozemaster.
#323 Previn Aug 03, 2007 9:51:39	Call me crazy, but I can't find any way to get a Saguaro Sentinel as an animal companion. Am I missing something or is this an error? Edit: Never mind, I'm in error, I read to far down and was reading wildshapes as animal companions. :P
#324 cannibalsmith Aug 03, 2007 9:52:35	What is the Saguaro Sentinel?
#325 jackmojo Aug 03, 2007 19:29:21	Basically a Giant Cactus Ent...its in Sandstorm Jack
#326 zombiegleemax Aug 03, 2007 20:43:04	Forgive me, but why would a horrid tiger be better than a dire tiger? Can someone explain this to me?
#327 cannibalsmith Aug 03, 2007 23:11:04	Forgive me, but why would a horrid tiger be better than a dire tiger? Can someone explain this to me? Horrid template gives immunity to acid and adds acid damage to the primary attack. And Improved Natural Attack for all attacks.
#328 Previn Aug 04, 2007 14:21:37	Keep in mind that when it says "Horrid Tiger" it actually means "Horrid Dire Tiger." I think that's where your confusion is. A regular Tiger with the Horrid template would in no way be worth it.
#329 Roflwolf Aug 04, 2007 19:26:48	Keep in mind that when it says "Horrid Tiger" it actually means "Horrid Dire Tiger." I think that's where your confusion is. A regular Tiger with the Horrid template would in no way be worth it. The horrid template can only be applied to dire animals. Fyi to those who might not be aware.
#330 zombiegleemax Aug 04, 2007 22:40:47	Hey guys, Little thing I found. 13th Halfling Druid sub-level is interesting, It is called camoflauge. It replaces the A thousand Faces feature. Post-eratta a thousand faces only gives disguise self, so just get a Hat of Disguise (Sticking a clasp on it is cool, too.) So Camoflauge gives you hide in any natural terrain, even without cover or concealment, it is almost as good as the Ranger's Hide in plain sight, except you can't use it when being watched, The downside is that Druids don't have hide as a class skill. Also, Yondolla's Blessing(RotW) is an amazing feat for Min/Max-ing Halfling Druid's like me. -sirlaxalot125
#331 Previn Aug 05, 2007 12:26:01	Complete Mage as options for exchanging your animal companion for an elemental.
#332 zombiegleemax Aug 07, 2007 12:57:26	Hi guys, got another question. Does the feat Extraordinary Concentration exist? If it does, which book can I find it, and what does it do?
#333 friendlyfrog Aug 07, 2007 13:08:20	Yes, it exists, it's from Complete Adventurer, and it allows you to concentrate on a spell either as a move action or a swift action instead of a standard action, if you succeed in a Concentration check.
#334 zombiegleemax Aug 07, 2007 15:39:37	What do you guys think about this. Human Druid 1 Extend Spell/Persistant Spell Druid 2 Cleric 3 Divine Meta Magic Persistant Druid 4-6 Natural Spell Druid 7-9 Extra Turning Druid 10-12 Extra turning Druid 13-15 Extra turning Druid 16-18 Extra Turning Or is it not worth it? and just go druid 20? and get persistant and quicken for late lvl casting?
#335 snizor Aug 07, 2007 15:40:47	If you do that, get the Kobald Domain (RotD web enhancement) for Trapfinding.
#336 zombiegleemax Aug 07, 2007 16:08:55	No natural spell? Why not just play a cleric instead.
#337 zombiegleemax Aug 08, 2007 9:50:01	This guide has uses for the Spirit Shaman as well.
#338 alienfreak Aug 09, 2007 16:40:15	My contribution for a greater Item section: General Items: Ioun Stone: All Ioun Stones are good because they dont go away when you wildshape Wilding Clasp (MIC): Good for having your Equipment while Wildshaping. A bit expensive at the start with 4k per item Armour: Wilding Enhancement: You will still get your armour enhancement when wildshaping. Pretty worth the +3! Arms: Counterstrike Bracers (MIC): 2/day a free AoO when somebody attacks you in melee and misses. Worth the 2500 if you have combat reflexes. Bracers of Blinding Strike (MIC): +2 on Init and 3/day an extra attack when performing a full attack. Nice for 5000 Head: Circlet of Persuasion (DMG): A must if you go on commanding animals via the Initiate of Nature Feat Circlet of Mages (MIC): Recalling 3 spell leves/day instantly is never bad Horned Helm (MIC): An extra Gore attack. Sweet. Circlet of Rapid Casting (MIC): Faster buffing is always good! Throat: Amulet of retributive Healing (MIC): 3/day heal the same amount he heal someone else. Especially sweet with the 5th level "Heal Animal Companion" spell. But its up to your DM wether you heal the amount you could have healed him or only the effective amount of healing that could be applied (for example when casting it on your fully healed AC. Does it heal you or not? RAW i would say yes) Amulet of Fortune Prevailing (MIC): Rerolling a Save or Die Amulet of mighty fists (DMG): A good way to permanently enhance all of your natural attacks in Wildshape Torso: Shirt of the Leech (MIC): Nice spell when playing in a campaign with many enemy clerics. Druid's Vestment (MIC): 1 additional Wildshape Attempt for 10k. Depends on your style of playing wether its worth it. Shirt of XX (MIC): If you dont have any other vest or want to combine them a 3/XX DR is never bad. Waist: Belt of the wide Earth (MIC): Teleport for druids Belt of Growth (MIC): Since you dont lose your humanoid type anymore you can enlarge yourself for 10/mins per day with it Rings: Ring of Protection X (DMG): Deflection to AC ... uhm ... yeh Ring of adamantine touch (MIC): Attacks count as adamantine for DR Ring of Force Shield (DMG): Who says a bear cant have a force shield? Ring of greater Counterspells (DMG): Saves your Buffs Ring of Freedom of Movement (DMG): Not cheap but obvious effect. Ring of Nine Lives (MIC): Worth it after the MIC rework. Reroll one save/day now Boots: Boots of Striding and Springing (DMG): Enhanced movement speed. Face: Dragon Mask (MIC): If you have problems with invisible foes Goggles of the the Sun (MIC): Immune to blindness & dazle plus 3/day a DC14 Fireball (your CL and you have to use up a spellslot) for 4k! Not too good for blasting but good for getting rid of mooks. Comments: I have not incorporated Items like +X to Attribute because everybody wants that and you are pretty free to choose the slot. The Itemslots presented here are available for most animals/whatever you shape into. If you use humanoid ones like an Ape feel free to use gauntlets. The lists here is just my personal oppinion. Addition and feedback is welcome
#339 alienfreak Aug 09, 2007 16:50:35	And dont forget it may be worth it sometimes to combine items 2 items of the same slot!
#340 Markus.l Aug 16, 2007 15:14:11	I've read over this & other various druid & summoner threads, which have been immensely helpful but I wanted to get the pro's opinion on 'this take' of feats for a druid summoner: mid-aged human Druid 1-20 with 2 U.A. Flaws 1: Greenbound / Ashbound / Spell Focus: Conj. / Augment summoning 3: Beckon the Frozen 6: Natural Spell 9: Rashemon Summoning 12: Initiate of Nature 15: Augment Elemental 18: Extraordinary Concentration (for summon Elemental Monolith) ---- IS Beckon the Frozen & Augment Elemental overkill and worth putting in something else (extend or empower M.M.)?
#341 kremti Aug 16, 2007 16:42:00	18: Extraordinary Concentration (for summon Elemental Monolith) QUOTE] Despite what some handbooks say, you actually are forbiddened to cast spells while concentrating, whether you are using Swift action, or Standard action to concentrate (Unless some other effect specifically let you). Extra Ordinary Concentration won't let you cast spells while concentrating on another spell (Like Summon Elemental Monolith). I think you should have Quicken somewhere. -K
#342 Markus.l Aug 16, 2007 17:02:44	Despite what some handbooks say, you actually are forbiddened to cast spells while concentrating, whether you are using Swift action, or Standard action to concentrate (Unless some other effect specifically let you). Extra Ordinary Concentration won't let you cast spells while concentrating on another spell (Like Summon Elemental Monolith). I think you should have Quicken somewhere. -K But that is completely opposite of what the feat says, no? Do you have link to this 'forbiddeness'? Quicken would be good at 12 or 15...
#343 snizor Aug 18, 2007 22:04:42	A race suggestion for the main guide would be Dragonborn of Bahamut Boumman. It loses the vow of silence due to Dragonborn and ends up with +2 WIS/+2 CON, -2 DEX/-2 CHA. Perfect for a Druid.
#344 zombiegleemax Aug 23, 2007 19:24:20	Strongheart Halfling Druid 20 Build 32 Point Buy- Variation-Each point equals a point Scores Str 1 Dex 1 Con 22 Int 12 Wis 34 Cha 10 Points from levels go to Wisdom Feats Bonus: Quicken Spell 1: Greenbound Summoning 3: Yondolla's Blessing 6: Natural Spell 9: Initiate of Nature 12: Frozen Wild Shape 15: Dragon Wild Shape 18: Fell Drain With a Wildshape Amulet At level 16 You can shape into a 12 Headed Cryohydra, with Enhance Wild Shape and Bite of the Were-whatever, this gets broken. Also, Wilding clasp on a stacked necklace of nat attacks with Wounding x12, along with Mantle of the Beast, It gets ridiculous. Throw in a quickened Poison spell and You can Move, Deal 1d12+12 Con damage and Then all the damage from the Bites. It's Crazy. Tiny problem is land speed In the end you should become a melee-caster-killing machine with a crudload of minions, you basically fill almost every role. Other Stuff: FR Campaign Setting Worship Mielikki or Silvanus Dragonhide Armor 13th HAlfling Sublevel- Just Buy a hat of Disguise Fleshraker Animal Companion
#345 cannibalsmith Aug 24, 2007 0:56:15	But why did you post it here? I mean, there are no questions in your post. Your build is fine.
#346 lotofsnow Aug 24, 2007 2:16:30	But why did you post it here? I mean, there are no questions in your post. Your build is fine. I think he was making a suggestion. However, I know of no DMs that will allow 1s for ability scores out of the box. Also, usually point buys require a minimum unmodified score of 8, at least every one that I've played with.
#347 GnomeBoy Aug 24, 2007 9:43:22	Strongheart Halfling Druid 20 Build 32 Point Buy- Variation-Each point equals a point Scores Str 1 Dex 1 Con 22 Int 12 Wis 34 Cha 10 Points from levels go to Wisdom I've been lurking in this thread for awhile... but had to surface for a moment. Having a really hard time wrapping my head around this point buy "system".... Even if the 1's are achieved by selling points back from the base of 8, it don't seem to balance none...
#348 cannibalsmith Aug 24, 2007 10:04:15	sirlaxalot125's point buy system is a house rule. Nuff said.
#349 OskarOisinson Aug 24, 2007 15:36:03	Hi, I read the first couple of pages of this last night and then went to bed. For some reason I seem to recall seeing either on this thread or a related tab some sort of method for sharing wildshape or more concisely, that you can give your wildshape to someone else by sacrificing your own access to it. I was tired when I read it and can't seem to find it on the threads I was checking last night, if someone could direct me to this information to let me know if I was just dreaming I'd really appreciate it.
#350 friendlyfrog Aug 24, 2007 16:08:39	Hi, I read the first couple of pages of this last night and then went to bed. For some reason I seem to recall seeing either on this thread or a related tab some sort of method for sharing wildshape or more concisely, that you can give your wildshape to someone else by sacrificing your own access to it. I was tired when I read it and can't seem to find it on the threads I was checking last night, if someone could direct me to this information to let me know if I was just dreaming I'd really appreciate it. The Hierophant has an ability like that, except that you don't completely lose access to it, only one use per day.
#351 OskarOisinson Aug 24, 2007 19:46:37	Right, thanks a lot. I'm trying to formulate a party that relies on IoSFV and Druid wild-shaping being imbued into a berserker as a BBEG party.
#352 zombiegleemax Aug 26, 2007 19:14:18	Complete Mage as options for exchanging your animal companion for an elemental. Yeah. Does anyone have any opinions on whether or not this is worth taking?
#353 wolfwood2 Aug 26, 2007 19:26:57	Yeah. Does anyone have any opinions on whether or not this is worth taking? The short version is: An elemental companion will have less raw combat power, but they're of above animal intelligence so that you can order them to do complex things outside of combat. ("Go over to the big tower and find the man in the red shirt. Give him this and wait to see if he gives you anything back. Then come back to me." Try that with a wolf.) Also, you don't have any need to spend skill points on Handle Animal to get the most out of them. First choice should be Air Elemental for the fly speed, followed by Earth Elemental if the Earth Glide looks useful. Maybe a Water Elemental if you're playing Savage Tide or something.
#354 disco Aug 26, 2007 23:13:38	A level in monk is whack off your spellcasting, but + wis to AC is damn useful when wildsaphed Improved grapple and grapple bonus good when large animals +2 to all saves
#355 lokean Aug 28, 2007 1:19:03	The kelpstrand spell is mentioned as a good early spell which scales poorly with level, I have to disagree... Take the level at which you would normally gain access to the dire polar bear as a potential grappling form. With six grapple checks requiring touch attacks to initiate you have a lot more chance of starting a grapple in a given round than you do with the polar bear. Further, the text of the spell is "You immediately make an opposed grapple check... [to which] ... you add your caster level and your wisdom bonus rather than your strength bonus and size bonus." There's a distinct lack of anything to change the normal mechanics of an opposed grapple check beyond this, so you still add your BAB and any bonuses from feats or, hilariously, racial bonuses. Consider a druid that doesn't specialise in any way with grappling. His minimum grapple checks for a second level spell with no save and no SR are: 13 (BAB) + 18 (CL) + 4 (Wis) = +35 Six ranged touch attacks with a +35 grapple modifier? That's enough to tie down an old dragon, which is none too shabby for something that isn't a grappler.
#356 gawainbs Aug 28, 2007 3:23:34	Probably been brought up before and I read over it, but when you use the Druids with Domains variant from UA p. 68 and you take the Sun Domain, which grants you turning 1x/day, wouldn't this open up some DMM cheese, especially if combined with Extra Turning and nightsticks? How about a persisted Nature's Favour on your companion, or a persisted Mass Vigor, Lesser? Also, I noticed that A Man in Black hasn't got Dragonmarked. The Dragonblood Beast Druid spell grants an animal companion a fly speed, better natural armour and an improved bite. Not too shabby. A disadvantage is, though, that it requires Dragonshard dust and a Dragonmark, but since this is campaign specific, I think some DM's will let this go.
#357 miscdebris Aug 28, 2007 10:13:50	Once per day, you can perform a greater turning against undead in place of a regular turning. (emphasis mine) Druids do not get turning, so they cannot use greater turning. Edit: Nevermind, it's covered in the block, they get turning 1/day
#358 gawainbs Aug 28, 2007 10:16:09	(emphasis mine) Druids do not get turning, so they cannot use greater turning. You should read up on UA then, since there it's told that instead of this power, they can turn regularly 1x/day.
#359 knightware Aug 29, 2007 7:16:40	I am a bit of a noob I am happy to admit when it comes to optimization and I haven't been playing d20 for very long... But whats the advantage of actually grappling a foe in combat...
#360 gawainbs Aug 29, 2007 7:19:13	It basicly says "You're screwed, I win". A grappled foe can't do very much if he isn't specificly made to deal with it. Further, you can pin and thus immobilize your opponent. Also, many monsters have specials attacks/abilities they can use on a grappled opponent. (Swallow Hole comes to mind.)
#361 cannibalsmith Aug 29, 2007 7:21:26	But whats the advantage of actually grappling a foe in combat... He can't insta-kill you with his spells. Or with his Sword of Doom and Destruction.
#362 disco Aug 29, 2007 8:28:45	It is especially good against spell casters, who get pinned and silenced are useless. When I was a Druid9/Monk1 I worked great with the rogue of the party who could sneako my opponent (denied their dex) once I had them pinned - which was usually straight away.
#363 seeker_of_truth_02 Aug 29, 2007 13:07:07	I am a bit of a noob I am happy to admit when it comes to optimization and I haven't been playing d20 for very long... But whats the advantage of actually grappling a foe in combat... A grappled foe cannot attack more than once per round, cast spells, even moving requires he wins a grapple check. He also cannot use any weapon that's bigger than light.
#364 knightware Aug 29, 2007 20:49:36	Hey guys I was looking through Complete Champion and there is a couple of good looking wildshaping feats.. Swiftshape which basicly lets you wild shape as a swift action (but requires fast wild shaping , which I can't seem to find anywhere) Bestial Charge a tatical feat based on wild shape which lets you do the following tatical maneuvers, (and if you have swift wild shaping you can do them in the same round as changing forms) Pouncing Charge: You can make a full attack after you charge as if you had the pounce ability, and if you would laready have that ability you get a +3 increase on your attack rolls Striking Charge: You get an extra 5 feet of reach but must have serpentine animal form Twisting charge: You can change direction during a charge as long as you move atleast 10 feet before and after, but you must be in a form with four or more legs
#365 CubeKnight Aug 29, 2007 21:04:00	Swiftshape which basicly lets you wild shape as a swift action (but requires fast wild shaping , which I can't seem to find anywhere) Complete Divine
#366 Markus.l Sep 12, 2007 15:04:33	Question about 'optimal' druid and/or Arcane Hierophant races: Are the Volodnis (U.E.) worth taking with the U.A. level buy off? Role-playing: they are great for the druid, but I wanted to see about the other side of the coin...
#367 grim_sage Sep 12, 2007 16:56:07	The benefits are quite weak for a LA +2 race, compared to other things you can get; also, even with LA buyoff you're going to be a LOT of xp behind compared to the rest. Not to mention still having to play a considerable amount of levels with the LA before you can use the buyoff. With Wild Shape working off Alternate Form, thus not changing your type, at least the plant traits aren't completely wasted, but it's still far too high a price to pay. You can get most of the volodni racial traits through Wild Shape and spellcasting (not to mention other druid class abilities like Venom Immunity) anyway; giving up 2 levels (or loads of xp) for something you can eventually do anyway is generally a bad idea.
#368 vanriper Sep 13, 2007 12:55:02	What sources are the following from: Dragonborn of Bahamut Boumman Wilding Armor ability thanks.
#369 snizor Sep 13, 2007 13:04:09	What sources are the following from: Dragonborn of Bahamut Boumman Wilding Armor ability thanks. Dragonborn of Bahamut is from Races of the Dragon. Boumman is from the Planar Handbook.
#370 gawainbs Sep 13, 2007 13:24:46	Wilding Armour is from CAd, IIRC.
#371 CubeKnight Sep 13, 2007 14:17:16	Wild Armor is Core, actually. Beasthide Armor is from CAdv
#372 zombiegleemax Sep 24, 2007 0:06:45	What is the concensus on the item slots available for wilding clasps to be attached to? I'm trying to plan my druids items around that so I can attain a decent AC. The OP didn't have the MIC to look at or contend with either. So far this is what I have: Body Slot - Robe as to not conflict with Monk's Belt ability: + Deflection + Armor (as Bracers of Armor) + Natural Armor Throat: + Con + Wis Torso Slot: + Saving Throws Monk's Belt Ability (or is this viable on another slot?) I'd like to get a Str item in there somehow if possible, but I feel that is more up to the ruling on the Wilding Clasp. Thanks!
#373 platrat Sep 24, 2007 1:26:45	Wildling clasps can be attached to anything, just they tend to be a bit expensive and add up fast in the lower levels.
#374 trevhippy Sep 25, 2007 20:55:28	I see that your Belgian, so please don't take offense at this - your english is miles upon miles better than my French. But this... (Swallow Hole comes to mind.) ...has to be my favorite typo of all time. <3
#375 gawainbs Sep 26, 2007 11:10:27	I see that your Belgian, so please don't take offense at this - your english is miles upon miles better than my French. But this... ...has to be my favorite typo of all time. <3 Who says it's a typo? Maybe I was reading Complete Nymphology.
#376 trevhippy Sep 29, 2007 8:48:10	Haha! Well played, sir!
#377 vicla Sep 30, 2007 20:49:07	What about a dire weasel for an animal companion?
#378 kirech Sep 30, 2007 23:26:59	I've a conundrum. A druid is a bit less effective than a cleric at healing and restoration, but should be able to cover the role. But what about ability drain? My DMs seem to love the stuff, and I can't find a substitute for Restoration on the druid list. Sheltered Vitality and Death Ward are good preventative measures, but you don't always know when you're gonna need 'em. Is the cleric completely irreplacable in this role? I asked in this thread since it seems like an important question for any druid player to answer.
#379 cannibalsmith Oct 01, 2007 0:08:14	Is the cleric completely irreplacable in this role? It seems so.
#380 green_eyes Oct 01, 2007 1:16:35	At high levels one could summon a Celestial Charger Unicorn to cast restoration. And a simple unicorn is a decent healabot all by itself.
#381 kirech Oct 01, 2007 10:54:17	At high levels one could summon a Celestial Charger Unicorn to cast restoration. So no restorations until 17th level? I get Heal at 13th (EDIT: which doesn't get rid of ability drain or neg. levels, either), so that doesn't really help much. And a simple unicorn is a decent healabot all by itself. I'm well aware, but that doesn't solve the problem. Looks like UMD with a 26000 gp wand, a bunch of scrolls, or paying a cleric in town each time are the only options before level 17.
#382 Omen_of_Peace Oct 02, 2007 8:01:34	The Renewal domain (SC) has Greater Restoration at level 7 - you can get it 1/day with Contemplative at level 13. Hardly convincing, I know.
#383 green_eyes Oct 05, 2007 17:06:09	I applaud you efforts in updating this. I'm not so sure that Venerable is a good idea anymore. +3 to mental stats is nice, but -6 Con is a killer (often literally). Middle-aged is certainly still good, though. Here's a little dirty trick - the spell Reincarnate. Particullary the 3.5 version of the spell. What drew my attention Since the dead creature is returning in a new body, all physical ills and afflictions are repaired. The condition of the remains is not a factor. So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be reincarnated, but the portion receiving the spell must have been part of the creature’s body at the time of death. The magic of the spell creates an entirely new young adult body for the soul to inhabit from the natural elements at hand. This process takes 1 hour to complete. When the body is ready, the subject is reincarnated. Hail to the king, baby! Worst that could happen is becoming a Kobold with -4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con. Still better than -6 to all stats. And your mental stats don't change. That's good news. Now for the bad ones: - It's cheesy. It is. Your DM might want to use the 3ed variant. - You somebody to reincarnate you, because you can't raise your self (there is a way, but it's even more cheese). Any character with UMD will do just fine. Just get a scroll beforehand. - You lose all your racial benefits. I repeat, you lose all of your racial qualities. And get some random ones instead. Hope this qualifies for the tricks part ;) Note, that it can be used for any character, that is dependant on mental stats. UPD: For more cheese involved put a Thought Bottle on top of it. Also there is a spell in SpC "Last breath" wich is a no-level loss Reincarnate. But must be cast within one round of the victim's death. Do that if you trust your UMD friend.
#384 arismir Oct 05, 2007 18:03:37	Here's a little dirty trick - the spell Reincarnate. Particullary the 3.5 version of the spell. Why stop at venerable? The jermlaine is back!
#385 green_eyes Oct 05, 2007 18:13:34	Ok, I know a jermlaine is from MMII. But how do you play it? What are the stats? And the LA? And it's not humanoid. It's fey. Most likely it can't be venerable, due to immortality.
#386 arismir Oct 05, 2007 18:23:35	A jermlaine [MM2] is a tiny fey with abysmal physical stats and a +6 wisdom modifier. I glanced at my MM and didn't see anything where it said that fey can't age, but if anyone has a reference, that'd be appreciated. Furthermore, reincarnate doesn't specify that the subject has to be a humanoid, but instead reads: For nonhumanoid creatures, a similar table of creatures of the same type should be created. So now there's just the question of what fey could we use to create that table? Here's some possible choices that I have seen just glancing through the Monster Manuals:
#387 green_eyes Oct 06, 2007 7:53:15	I said about immortality because there are Killoren in RoW, IIRC. They are fey humanoids and never die of old age. Unleast the want to. As for the list of fey - that's good, but it's DM dependant. I try to avoid DM dependand situations when abusing the ruleholes.
#388 green_eyes Oct 07, 2007 9:44:05
#389 zombiegleemax Oct 10, 2007 2:25:36	When working on a new druid for a friend of mine some questions came up that belong in this topic I guess: - Besides the PHB only 1 book can be choosed for extra options. Spells outside PHB must be researched and can be from any book. Magic items come form the DMG (without having it to choose) and from the selected book. From an optimization point; which book would you choose? (I'm thinking of the [which book is it?] which has Wilding Clasps). - At lvl 11 I choose the Brown Bear as a companion. Can I choose extra feats and skills now and how many? Thanks for your help!
#390 cannibalsmith Oct 10, 2007 5:44:38	Complete Champion has Trappings of the Beast - an expensive but worth it magic item set. Magic Item Compendium has Wilding Clasps and more. Forgotten Realms' Shining South has Rashemi Elemental Summoning. Your companion gains feats and skills from bonus hit dice as just like any other character would from leveling. He does not gain ability increases though.
#391 CubeKnight Oct 10, 2007 8:13:33	He does not gain ability increases though. Really? I always tought they did.
#392 green_eyes Oct 10, 2007 8:53:43	NoM they only get ability increases from Druid levels.
#393 mod5000 Nov 12, 2007 5:58:36	Could someone explain to me what's so great about Dragon Wild Shape? I've looked through a bunch of that dragons in the MM, and apart from the immunity and 5 attacks per round they don't seem quite as hot as one would expect from all the hype--most medium dragons have a strength of 17 which isn't that awesome when compared to other forms you're able to take at level 12.
#394 cannibalsmith Nov 12, 2007 6:09:45	1) Fastest flight speed in the game. 2) Speech. This is a big one for many druids. 3) Like you said, 5 attacks - not the best (Octopus), but more than most. 4) Immunity - this is a big one. This feat essentially gives you Energy Immunity spell with hour/level duration. Dragon forms are not for melee. They're for mobility and staying out of reach while you rain magical death.
#395 mod5000 Nov 12, 2007 6:11:12	Ah, gotcha, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for explaining it
#396 Omen_of_Peace Nov 12, 2007 11:35:39	When you add more splatbooks, you also get more outlandish abilities. For instance, Planar Dragons from the Draconomicon have a (Su) Planeshift IIRC, and some have exotic breath weapons.
#397 radijs Nov 15, 2007 8:48:42	A nice addition I found in Stormwrack is "Storm Teleport". Combine it with cloudburst and you've got a high-capacity teleport since this version lets you teleport 1 creature per 2 caster levels instead of three.
#398 dicemand20 Nov 24, 2007 15:53:49	pretty new on the forums. i'm currently playing first druid (now 4th lev. and loving it. just more 2 levels till NatSp!) anyway, i am still just not sold on the idea that dragon wild shape is all that great. what does plane shift do? where is the dragon wildshape feat thread? CannibalSmith pointed out a few nice features of dragon wild shape as have others throughout the post. here is my take on it, i'd like some of you out there to perhaps enlighten me. 1. dragons fly fast response- so does phantom stag (at i think 14th lev?) and it lasts a long time too. great for spellslinging. 2. speech admittedly this is a nice feature, but there are items that let you at least get around this enough... i also always thought a legendary ape that learns sign language and then taught it to his party, (get them to part with a couple skill points and voila!) 3. five attacks good, but not good enough to warrant a feat, especially with that (relatively) low str --17. 4. immunity to energies once again i have a spell to emulate this, not as good but there when needed. ---- so can someone please justify spending one of the precious feat slots on this, it just doesn't add up for me. also, what am i missing that this feat gives? besides turning into dragons is a neat visual.
#399 jameswilliamogle Nov 24, 2007 16:00:38	pretty new on the forums. i'm currently playing first druid (now 4th lev. and loving it. just more 2 levels till NatSp!) anyway, i am still just not sold on the idea that dragon wild shape is all that great. what does plane shift do? where is the dragon wildshape feat thread? CannibalSmith pointed out a few nice features of dragon wild shape as have others throughout the post. here is my take on it, i'd like some of you out there to perhaps enlighten me. 1. dragons fly fast response- so does phantom stag (at i think 14th lev?) and it lasts a long time too. great for spellslinging. 2. speech admittedly this is a nice feature, but there are items that let you at least get around this enough... i also always thought a legendary ape that learns sign language and then taught it to his party, (get them to part with a couple skill points and voila!) 3. five attacks good, but not good enough to warrant a feat, especially with that (relatively) low str --17. 4. immunity to energies once again i have a spell to emulate this, not as good but there when needed. ---- so can someone please justify spending one of the precious feat slots on this, it just doesn't add up for me. also, what am i missing that this feat gives? besides turning into dragons is a neat visual. Nope, you nailed it. What were you going to spend the feat on?
#400 wolfwood2 Nov 24, 2007 16:06:08	---- so can someone please justify spending one of the precious feat slots on this, it just doesn't add up for me. also, what am i missing that this feat gives? besides turning into dragons is a neat visual. I think what you're missing is that feat slots aren't all that precious to a druid. You need Natural Spell and... that's it, pretty much. Any other feats are just to give a slight boost to your preferred style of uber-druid. So you're right that the benefits aren't that great, but the opportunity cost isn't that great either.
#401 Chaos_Redefined Nov 24, 2007 16:17:46	Consider this: Other wildshape feats that can be considered include IUS/Imp. Grapple. For 2 feats, you get +4 to grapple. Alternatively, for 1 feat (dragon wildshape), you gain fast flight, speech, energy immunity, and a large number of attacks. The first one is strictly worse than a 5th level spell, except for the duration of the spell (Bite of the were). You are now saying that dragon wildshape's features can be replaced by 2 spells and an item...
#402 cannibalsmith Nov 24, 2007 16:36:46	once again i have a spell to emulate this, not as good but there when needed. Yes, you can spend different kinds of resources to solve same problems. It all boils down to: can you spend that feat slot on something better? The power of that feat depends on what forms are available in your current campaign. You must have access to at least most core dragon forms for the feat to be "worth it".
#403 dicemand20 Nov 24, 2007 16:39:23	well jameswilliamogle, like i said, this is my first druid,and i am a very patient man. my druid has sucked from the first session so far, providing healing for the party at significantly less power than a cleric would have. my animal comp. rocks though, too bad the rest of the party overlooks poor cringer when they talk trash about my "crappy" druid. just got to keep him alive a little longer, then they will see... hahaha. i play a wild reaper, its from an old dragon i dont feel like busting out right now, i think #315, also on crystalkeep. so 12th lev i get turn undead, so i am taking persistant dmm. much better than dragon wildshape imo, plus i have been planning this since day 1.my dm is a killer, but does not know much about what kinds of things to disallow because of brokenness. so we play in world of aereth, and this opens up the seer and some improved seer feats. basically they are available with 5 and 10 ranks in spellcraft respectively and lower metamagic costs by 1 each time and the best part, there is no minimum level they can be reduced to. (remember that epic feat you can get at like lev 27? yeah these are better mechanically than that. i told my dm things would get really crazy, but i dont think he believed me.) my wild reaper: human with 2 UA flaws 1st--persist, extend, quicken, empower 3rd--seer 6th--NS 9th--improved seer or whatever its called 12th--dmm persist 15th--probably more metamagic 18th--" " i call this build "getting away with murder" i dont suggest anyone else even thinking that maybe their dm will let them make this.
#404 dicemand20 Nov 24, 2007 16:45:00	Chaosredefined who ever said IUS and imp grapple were the best feats for wildshape?
#405 dicemand20 Nov 24, 2007 16:55:15	two feats i have been thinking might be fun for druids would be frozen wildshape --frostburn(i think you have to be like 15th lev for this though?) for the 12 headed cryohydra combined with destruction devotion domain feat out of comp. champion. decreasing ac by 2 with each hit, that could be up to 24 pts of ac in one round, assuming you hit with all attacks, which is more likely with every successful hit. now your fighter can really power attk. what do you guys think?
#406 radijs Nov 24, 2007 17:09:49	Hmmm I just thought of something. When in a social bind, turn into a gold dragon. Then claim you have been using your alternat form to go about without attracting attention. Then demand, in the name of whatever virtue you think they care about that they should do as you tell them.
#407 cannibalsmith Nov 24, 2007 17:16:10	my druid has sucked from the first session so far, providing healing for the party at significantly less power than a cleric would have. Preposterous! You got better things to do than heal. Not to mention that healing as a party role is a lie. Frozen Wild Shape is good. Though, just a couple levels more and it's Shapechange. Persistent Shapechange.
#408 dicemand20 Nov 24, 2007 17:31:41	oh ive buffed (others) a little, ive healed a little, but with a 7 dex and an 11 str (we rolled stats) i do better at filling gaps that my crappy party (two of whom are 1st timers, the other guy and dm started at the same time as me, about 1 year ago) never will. monk, paladin, scout, (and me, wild reaper). plus we never find gold, so we never can buy potions. my dm played second ed. and thinks high cr monsters have empty lairs, so i memorize vigor a lot. btw, does that seer feat let me do a lev 1 extended vigor or does vigor have a max cap # of rounds?
#409 dicemand20 Nov 24, 2007 17:32:51	what about destruction domain feat? good choice or no.
#410 cannibalsmith Nov 24, 2007 17:52:14	plus we never find gold, so we never can buy potions. Potions are bad. Pool your resources for a wand of Lesser Vigor - the most cost effective healing in the game. my dm played second ed. and thinks high cr monsters have empty lairs Make that an IG issue. Ask your quest dispensers rewards. Set up a business. Pillage, if your alignment allows and you can get away with it. btw, does that seer feat let me do a lev 1 extended vigor or does vigor have a max cap # of rounds? Doesn't matter. Get a wand.
#411 dicemand20 Nov 24, 2007 18:11:36	oh yea, 50 charges clw only 750 gp. is that right? maybe i just dont know how to read the dmg? if its really that cheap thanks, now i just have to find someone that either makes or at least sells wands. not every thing comes so easily in my dm's world.
#412 Chaos_Redefined Nov 24, 2007 18:50:12	I never said Imp Grapple was the best feat. It was merely the first one that came to mind that could be replicated by spells. So, I'll go through the list on the first page: Multiattack: Bite of the Were that gives at least +6 str is better. Improved Natural Attack: Bull's Strength Lion's Pounce: 3rd level spell does the same thing. Bunch of Wildshape-based ones: I'd have to look at each one and give them a thorough analysis each to really figure it out, but these will all cost more than 1 spell to replicate.
#413 dicemand20 Nov 24, 2007 19:43:32	ok, i think i see what you're saying chaosredefined, that many feats can be replicated for a duration of time with spells, so when choosing feats, consider things like how often you might use a given feat's power/powers-- or if by taking the feat you free up slots that would have been devoted to replicating spells and can use the slots to greater effect by not spending them on replicating feats. (sorry that was all poorly worded) so it is personal preferance as to what you want your druid to be spending his spells on. my point of view is that for some players (me) finding a specific magic item like a metamagic rod is sometimes difficult. (until spells like teleport become available to your party and you can just transport your party with all its platinum to ptolus--or some other big city with your pick of magic items) i don't know of any other way to apply metamagic feats to spells other than using rods. this makes metamagic feats more appealing to me because you can always cast those spells that emulate feats anyways. if you pick up a given metamagic feat, it is just available, no searching to find it and you still can cast the spells that replicate feats(just maybe quickened, or something). also the feats that improve summoning i consider to be superior to wildshape enhancing feats because they add to your power instead of emulating something you can already do with spells.
#414 cannibalsmith Nov 25, 2007 2:56:02	oh yea, 50 charges clw only 750 gp. is that right? maybe i just dont know how to read the dmg? if its really that cheap thanks, now i just have to find someone that either makes or at least sells wands. not every thing comes so easily in my dm's world. Why are you getting sarcastic? I cannot know how hard are magic items to come by in your world. Also see: A Player's Guide to Healing
#415 Chaos_Redefined Nov 25, 2007 5:12:27	First: Druids, as far as i know, usually don't get much use out of metamagic rods. It's the whole "have to be holding on to them" thing... While some people allow legendary ape shenanigans, some don't. As a result, some of us do use metamagic feats. Second: Spells and feats are both limited commodities. You need to know how to balance between them. Dragon Wildshape gives movement capabilities, breath weapons (aka: backup spells), spell-like abilities (more backup spells), and whatever else was in the list of cool stuff you got with them. Alternatively, Craft Wand can act as a large number of spells, including the CLW wand already mentioned. Finally: We are unable to predict the exact situation of your game. We are unaware that you have difficulty getting particular items. As a result, your analysis of Dragon Wildshape said, at least to me, "Why would I use a feat to save 5 spell slots?" when, to me, most feats can be replicated this way, except with far fewer spells. (Wizards get it even easier, with heroics available)
#416 dicemand20 Nov 25, 2007 6:32:40	sorry cannibalsmith, if i seemed sarcastic, i really am new to the game,(approx a year and a half and part of that was spent playing old d20 star wars.) if you can believe this, i really have never looked at magic items, or at least not much, because i like getting surprised with fun things like wands. maybe i dont even belong posting on the boards, but i'm giving it a try so that maybe i can glean enough from all you guys to put together a decent char. -- and thank yous to everyone on these boards, having a tool like this has helped me start to understand certain basic char. building principles that i never would have got on my own. cheers!
#417 dicemand20 Nov 25, 2007 6:42:31	chaosredefined, i still dont think dragon wildshape is a good idea in the game i play in, but i see your point. side note: i really hope my dm lets me turn into a legendary ape when i get there. would have tried to sneak in VOP otherwise. --question, does heroics let a druid with persist bite of the whatever 5th or 6th lev (granting power attk.) take a feat like cleave where power attk is a prereq? furthermore, can heroics be cast a second time to open up something like say... the whole shock trooper, bull rush combo?
#418 gawainbs Nov 25, 2007 6:54:34	chaosredefined, i still dont think dragon wildshape is a good idea in the game i play in, but i see your point. side note: i really hope my dm lets me turn into a legendary ape when i get there. would have tried to sneak in VOP otherwise. --question, does heroics let a druid with persist bite of the whatever 5th or 6th lev (granting power attk.) take a feat like cleave where power attk is a prereq? furthermore, can heroics be cast a second time to open up something like say... the whole shock trooper, bull rush combo? It can't, read the spell description in SpC.
#419 dicemand20 Nov 25, 2007 6:57:26	one more quick question before leaving for school, if a cleric had spell domain he could cast heroics as third lev. spell. with persist and DMM could he cast it on the druid to last all day? not asking if its worth it, just if its possible, (my campaign has those seer feats making it only cost 5 turn attempts to persist something) maybe better to just try to find a wand of heroics or get a wiz to take craft wand.
#420 cannibalsmith Nov 25, 2007 6:58:39	First: Druids, as far as i know, usually don't get much use out of metamagic rods. It's the whole "have to be holding on to them" thing... While some people allow legendary ape shenanigans, some don't. As a result, some of us do use metamagic feats. Girallions Blessing (Spell Compendium) grants (among other things) opposable thumbs. spell-like abilities No. Nothing grants spell-like abilities. take a feat like cleave where power attk is a prereq? Yes. can heroics be cast a second time to open up something like say... the whole shock trooper, bull rush combo? No. one more quick question before leaving for school It's Sunday! if a cleric had spell domain he could cast heroics as third lev. spell. with persist and DMM could he cast it on the druid to last all day? If it's a personal spell, he can persist it, but not cast on the druid. If it's not personal, and he can cast it on the druid, he can't persist it.
#421 dicemand20 Nov 25, 2007 7:04:15	ah yes, bite of the... "you gain the benefits of blind fight and power attk." does not say you gain the feats... but what about multiple castings of heroics to qualify for further feat prerequisites? heroics "grants the subject a feat"
#422 gawainbs Nov 25, 2007 7:07:17	ah yes, bite of the... "you gain the benefits of blind fight and power attk." does not say you gain the feats... but what about multiple castings of heroics to qualify for further feat prerequisites? heroics "grants the subject a feat" I believe the official ruling is that spells or magic items do count as qualification for feats, PrC's, etc. Personally, I suggest ruling otherwise, since that's the way it was intended. (Why else require Combat Expertise to have 13+ INT? Or Dodge 13+ DEX? IMHO, to "force" characters to make a suboptimal decision with their stats, as to make the feats harder to get. If Magic would help out, why require the stats?)
#423 cannibalsmith Nov 25, 2007 7:08:31	ah yes, bite of the... "you gain the benefits of blind fight and power attk." does not say you gain the feats... In my opinion, being able to qualify for other feats is a benefit. Multiple castings: effects from the same source do not stack. Period. Edit: qualifying for real feats (or PrCs) is just too cheesy. But qualifying for Heroics (Cleave) with Bite of the Weretiger is fine, because it's just a spell combo. Just like qualifying with Cat's Grace for Heroics (Combat Reflexes). We can derive a rule of thumb from this: anything must be equally or less permanent than its prerequisites.
#424 dicemand20 Nov 25, 2007 7:09:52	sunday? cannibalsmith i like you more and more. back to bed... or maybe just a little more reading of these boards, lets see what other class to learn about,
#425 dicemand20 Nov 25, 2007 7:17:11	from cannibalsmith: "If it's a personal spell, he can persist it, but not cast on the druid. If it's not personal, and he can cast it on the druid, he can't persist it." what about cleric of heironeous with channel spell from complete champion's ordained champ. and a level of contemplative for spell domain? put persisted heroics into a sap, then attack the druid for non lethal?
#426 cannibalsmith Nov 25, 2007 7:21:08	what about cleric of heironeous with channel spell from complete champion's ordained champ. and a level of contemplative for spell domain? put persisted heroics into a sap, then attack the druid for non lethal? With enough splatbooks, anything is possible. Still, don't forget the DM.
#427 dicemand20 Nov 25, 2007 7:24:37	"I believe the official ruling is that spells or magic items do count as qualification for feats, PrC's, etc. Personally, I suggest ruling otherwise, since that's the way it was intended. (Why else require Combat Expertise to have 13+ INT? Or Dodge 13+ DEX? IMHO, to "force" characters to make a suboptimal decision with their stats, as to make the feats harder to get. If Magic would help out, why require the stats?)"--gawainBS so a character with a 13 dex that then puts on gloves of dex +2 does not qualify for TWF? i always thought that did qualify you? or do you just mean spells and magic items that grant feats dont qualify you for the next feat in a chain?--nevermind i need to learn how to read. that's not even what you said. that's all the off topic junk i'll post, promise.
#428 gawainbs Nov 25, 2007 7:37:53	"I believe the official ruling is that spells or magic items do count as qualification for feats, PrC's, etc. Personally, I suggest ruling otherwise, since that's the way it was intended. (Why else require Combat Expertise to have 13+ INT? Or Dodge 13+ DEX? IMHO, to "force" characters to make a suboptimal decision with their stats, as to make the feats harder to get. If Magic would help out, why require the stats?)"--gawainBS so a character with a 13 dex that then puts on gloves of dex +2 does not qualify for TWF? i always thought that did qualify you? or do you just mean spells and magic items that grant feats dont qualify you for the next feat in a chain?--nevermind i need to learn how to read. that's not even what you said. that's all the off topic junk i'll post, promise. According to the FAQ, that character would qualify. In my houserules, they don't, unless they get it from another source, like Ranger or so. But as for this particular case: TWF has other benefits/prereqs with me. So, unless you meet the prereqs for a feat or PrC in an Anti-Magic Field, so to speak, you don't qualify.
#429 dicemand20 Nov 25, 2007 7:40:11	is there a magic item that emulates the daggerspell shaper's ability to meld daggers into his hands and keep the magic of the daggers for his claw attacks? i didn't see it anywhere in the handbook if there is.
#430 gawainbs Nov 25, 2007 8:01:49	Maybe Wildclasps allow it? It would seem to be more or less reasonable.
#431 cannibalsmith Nov 25, 2007 8:13:27	is there a magic item that emulates the daggerspell shaper's ability to meld daggers into his hands and keep the magic of the daggers for his claw attacks? AFAIK, no.
#432 bowensilverclaw1986 Nov 25, 2007 8:56:22	Necklace of Natural Weapons from Savage Species combined with a Wilding Clasp? Bowen
#433 doomguard7 Dec 05, 2007 7:22:22	What is the best way to gain Animal Type so you can use nature's avatar, animal growth etc. on yourself; I thought of shapechange but regrettably the dire polar bear form cannot cast spells, as it doesn't have the ability of speech and fine manipulation.
#434 cannibalsmith Dec 05, 2007 7:35:43	Don't you have Natural Spell?
#435 doomguard7 Dec 05, 2007 7:40:52	Natural Spell works only while the druid is in Wild Shape. And Shapechanging logically cancels the previous effect (Wild Shape) and makes you lose all supernatural abilities (like Wild Shape) while Shapechanged. Wild Shape does not confer the Animal Type to the Druid, as it works like Alternate Form.
#436 cannibalsmith Dec 05, 2007 8:57:01	Oh. In that case go Druid 5 / Master of Many Forms 1 / Druid 14. You will get Shifter's Speech. And you don't need fine manipulation for somatic components. The SRD says: To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). That's it. No word on needing humanoid hands. If your DM disagrees, show him the couatl - it has no hands yet casts spells. Then there's Still Spell, Silent Spell, Sudden Still Spell (Complete Arcane), and Sudden Silent Spell. Combine to taste. Put one of them into a rod. Then there's Surrogate Spellcasting (Savage Cheeses).
#437 doomguard7 Dec 05, 2007 9:12:55	Nature's Avatar and Nature's Favor also require a Divine Focus. Animal Growth would probably work, though... Couatls don't require Divine Foci, because they cast Divine Spells as Arcane.
#438 cannibalsmith Dec 05, 2007 9:35:14	Hold it in your mouth. Or cast Girallion's Blessing (Spell Compendium) to get hands.
#439 doomguard7 Dec 05, 2007 10:48:38	Would Nonverbal Spell help in eliminating the need for speech in order to cast spells with V Components while Shapechanged; On second thought, Natural Spell doesn't strictly specify that Foci and Material Components are only usable while you are in Wild Shape ("You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form."). So this part of it might also work with Shapechange....
#440 doomguard7 Dec 05, 2007 12:10:34	If the new form is capable of speech, you can communicate normally. You retain any spellcasting ability you had in your original form, but the new form must be able to speak intelligibly (that is, speak a language) to use verbal components and must have limbs capable of fine manipulation to use somatic or material components. Quoted from Alter Self Description. Shapechange is based off Alter Self. Girallon's Blessing seems ok.
#441 Omen_of_Peace Dec 05, 2007 16:11:14	Why not simply use a non-animal form ? Shapechange grants access to so many ridiculous forms... For instance, Dusk Giants (HoH) have Str 48, and can use THWs. You're missing out on Nature's Avatar, but do you really need it ? A (rod-)quickened Bite of the Werebear and you're more than good to go (Power Attack !).
#442 doomguard7 Dec 06, 2007 6:35:58	My dm has banned Bite of the Werebear. Besides, the Dire Polar Bear would be more thematically appropriate. Gargantuan Size for me and Huge for my companion in one spell, plus +8 str, +4 con, +4 saves and +20d8 hp, haste just for me aren't at all bad. I will not get Power Attack but I don't mind. Surrogate Spellcasting for V,S components in bear form and Natural Spell for F and M seems the way to go (although Surrogate Spellcasting is a montrous feat, my dm allowed it and technically I possess many nonhumanoid forms via Wildshape) ...
#443 Omen_of_Peace Dec 06, 2007 7:19:31	Oh, it's clearly not bad. I just don't understand a DM who bans BotWb but keeps Shapechange and allows your combo. Have fun !
#444 bowensilverclaw1986 Dec 06, 2007 7:39:16	What is the best way to gain Animal Type so you can use nature's avatar, animal growth etc. on yourself; I thought of shapechange but regrettably the dire polar bear form cannot cast spells, as it doesn't have the ability of speech and fine manipulation. See if you can get the Surrogate Spellcasting feat from Savage Species allowed? Bowen
#445 ganbor Dec 12, 2007 1:44:55	Question regarding Initiate of Nature - The guide mentions that it allows you to control twice your level in HD, but it appears to me that controlling is limited to your level in total HD, each creature having a max of level/2... Am I missing something or is this inaccurate?
#446 tyonisius Dec 14, 2007 21:32:46	Might have already been mentioned in one of the other pages but what about Brilliant Aura from Complete Divine page 157. Basically makes all weapons brilliant energy weapons and gives a damage enchancement bonus equal to 1/2 caster level? Edit: Another level 7 spell that might be worth adding to the list Aura of Vitality from Spell Compendium.
#447 falcon8r Dec 18, 2007 1:52:42	In regards to a Companion Familiar as an Arcane Hierophant, what would happen if your companion familiar died (or was dismissed)? Would you then risk losing xp as a familiar? Also, say you enter Arcane Hierophant at 8th level, gain 10 levels of AH (17th char lvl - eg; Dru 4/Wiz 3/ArH 10), then go back to ...say, druid...Does your Companion Familiar remain a companion familiar magical beast, or revert back to a standard animal companion? What if you instead continue your arcane levels after AH? [INDENT]I realize that if continue in druid, arcane levels would not increase for familiar ability improvements and vice versa if continuing in arcane.[/INDENT] One more thought, I noticed under Handle Animal that an animal with Int 1 can learn maximum of 3 tricks and Int 2, 6 tricks. What about an animal companion familiar with Int 11? Would they be able to learn 33 tricks? (not that there are anywhere near that many available, that I'm aware of ;) ) Thanks in advance for any insights and Happy Holidays to all!!!
#448 bensan Dec 18, 2007 1:56:19	One more thought, I noticed under Handle Animal that an animal with Int 1 can learn maximum of 3 tricks and Int 2, 6 tricks. What about an animal companion familiar with Int 11? Would they be able to learn 33 tricks? Once a creature has 3 or more intelligence, Handle Animal tricks don't apply. Rather than using the Guard trick, it's equivalent to asking an ally to cover you (for example) - real communication and understanding are possible, so tricks aren't needed anymore.
#449 Janos_Antero Dec 26, 2007 1:20:40	1-2 levels of Holt Warden (Complete Champion) are huge boosts to a spellcasting focused druid. Wild Shape suffers from the dip, but I almost think the two levels are worth it for some builds. Holt Warden requires a 5th level druid with minimal skill prereqs (Survival and Knowledge Nature). 1st level gives you a bonus spell of every level selected from the Plant Domain and the option to spontaneously cast spells from the Plant domain in exchange for your normal Spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally. 2nd level gives you Rebuke Plants (per the Cleric Domain granted power) for lots of commanded Plant buddies. 3rd level gives you Heal once a day after a 10 minute ritual, and you can share the benefit with your companions. I'm not as fond of this level because of the lack of Wild Shape, but it's a pretty nifty ability.
#450 jackmojo Dec 26, 2007 2:13:48	2nd level gives you Rebuke Plants (per the Cleric Domain granted power) for lots of commanded Plant buddies. The only trouble is you turn as a cleric of your holt warden level so for a dip its not very useful. Other then that the class does open up some neat options. Jack
#451 cannibalsmith Dec 26, 2007 3:52:37	The only trouble is you turn as a cleric of your holt warden level so for a dip its not very useful. Divine Metamagic.
#452 vorlir Dec 26, 2007 6:43:12	Divine Metamagic requires turn/rebuke undead, not plants.
#453 cannibalsmith Dec 26, 2007 6:46:43	Bummer.
#454 gawainbs Dec 26, 2007 7:08:23	Can't you get Turn Undead by taking the Domain variant in UA and selecting the Sun Domain?
#455 cannibalsmith Dec 26, 2007 7:14:39	There is no domain druid variant.
#456 gawainbs Dec 26, 2007 7:17:18	Yes, there is: http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedClasses.html It's right above the Spellpoints variant.
#457 radijs Dec 28, 2007 18:49:58	For divine metamagic its not that useful unless you factor in night sticks and/or extra turning. The domain druid only gets 1 turn/day.
#458 gawainbs Dec 29, 2007 5:31:02	But this is CO, so don't you think it's worth mentioning?
#459 cannibalsmith Dec 29, 2007 6:01:25	That variant has no downside, no cost. Thus it's like the wizard domains and gestalt. Thus you can't just take it.
#460 gawainbs Dec 29, 2007 6:02:44	And it's mentioned in UA, just like LA buy-off.
#461 bowensilverclaw1986 Dec 29, 2007 6:19:54	Or you could take a level of Sacred Exorcist... Maybe pick up Educated at lvl 1 for Knowledge(the planes) as a class skill, so you can get that level of SE a little earlier. Bowen
#462 theeaterofshades Jan 29, 2008 7:28:14	Hello all, We are planning a new epic campaign, but as we near epic levels I notice that animal companions do not have the ability to hit many high level opponents due to not having magic weapon status. I am wondering if there is a way to give them more than a plus 1 to multiple weapons (such as: claw/claw/bite)[Greater Magic Fang will give one weapon a +5 when the druid is 20th, or all weapons a +1 if I am reading it right] Is there a spell, item, or as we house rule epic rules do you feel it is better to work it into the epic animal companion progression? Thanks!
#463 green_eyes Jan 29, 2008 7:32:43	Allow the druid to stack some kind of template that makes the weapons magic.
#464 cannibalsmith Jan 29, 2008 8:57:42	I am wondering if there is a way to give them more than a plus 1 to multiple weapons Don't. Druid has Animal Growth and other buffs.
#465 gawainbs Jan 29, 2008 9:53:42	Nature's Favour from CD does the trick. GMF makes them all count as magical, Nature's Favour gives + X Luck bonus, IIRC. Also, as suggested earlier, Animal Growth gives the animal DR X/Magic, which makes their natural weapons count as magical.
#466 phaedrusxy Jan 29, 2008 12:25:14	Hello all, We are planning a new epic campaign, but as we near epic levels I notice that animal companions do not have the ability to hit many high level opponents due to not having magic weapon status. I am wondering if there is a way to give them more than a plus 1 to multiple weapons (such as: claw/claw/bite)[Greater Magic Fang will give one weapon a +5 when the druid is 20th, or all weapons a +1 if I am reading it right] Is there a spell, item, or as we house rule epic rules do you feel it is better to work it into the epic animal companion progression? Thanks! Greater Magic Fang can be made permanent. Give them a permanent +5 on every natural weapon, and buy them a ring of counterspells to prevent it from being dispelled. The Amulet of Natural Attacks from Savage Species is also something to look into.
#467 skyblade Jan 29, 2008 20:33:24	Or you could take a level of Sacred Exorcist... Maybe pick up Educated at lvl 1 for Knowledge(the planes) as a class skill, so you can get that level of SE a little earlier. Bowen Heh, that's a great find... was looking for a way to get the druid to use divine metamagic. Instead of Education, I'd suggest taking Gatekeeper Initiate instead - gives you Knowledge: Planes, plus a bunch of nifty spells. And bonus to saves. Cool, eh?
#468 Omen_of_Peace Jan 30, 2008 0:18:05	Isn't there a spellcasting prerequisite for Sacred Exorcist that makes it hard for druids to qualify ? (AFB)
#469 northsaber Jan 30, 2008 0:31:35	Isn't there a spellcasting prerequisite for Sacred Exorcist that makes it hard for druids to qualify ? (AFB) Yeah, druids don't get the required spells (Dispel Evil, Dismissal), even if they managed to get 10 ranks in Knowledge (the planes).
#470 archerpwr Feb 02, 2008 19:42:14	I don't know if this has been mentioned, but the rainbow location in complete mage is really sweet for high level druids. 2k gp for 1/day triple the duration of a single transmution spell. That's a lot cheaper than a greater metamagic rod of extend for shapechange.
#471 rasmfrackn Feb 08, 2008 16:06:13	It basicly says "You're screwed, I win". A grappled foe can't do very much if he isn't specificly made to deal with it. Further, you can pin and thus immobilize your opponent. Also, many monsters have specials attacks/abilities they can use on a grappled opponent. (Swallow Hole comes to mind.) A couple things, one of which is about grappling. I understand how it can be very powerful against classed humanoid NPC opponents, but from what I can tell it cannot stop monsters from using SLAs and SUs, right? The wording for actually casting spells in a grapple makes it fairly powerful against real spellcasters, especially when you get them pinned. SLAs provoking seems odd when there's no component of any kind involved, but I suppose if they're pausing to concentrate, then fine. SUs are nearly the same and are still standard actions (when viewed from a grappling standpoint) but don't provoke. Can you stop either of these via grappling? It seems that grappling anything with teleportation, plane shifting, dimension dooring, etc. as either SLA or SU is only good for using up their standard action in the next round (which isn't horrible... just suboptimal). Also, I don't know if this is especially controversial, since even my relatively restrictive GM allows it, and it seems RAW to me, but if you wear a CON boosting item and then wildshape, it melds into your form, freeing up the slot. This removes the enhancement bonus to CON, but your hps while wildshaped are based on your *original* hitpoints, and thus you can keep your boosted hitpoints. So I can wear a con amulet, wildshape, and then put on a wis amulet. I don't get the +con while I'm an animal, but the extra hitpoints are a nice free bonus.
#472 cannibalsmith Feb 09, 2008 2:55:00	SLAs require Concentration checks when used in grappling. Thus you can stop only low level monsters who have few ranks in Concentration. Most of SUs can't be stopped. You can stop gaze attacks and breath weapons by pinning the monster and shutting its eyes or mouth respectively. your *original* hitpoints, and thus you can keep your boosted hitpoints. No. Your original hit points are exactly that: your original hit points. Before the stat boosting item.
#473 rasmfrackn Feb 15, 2008 18:29:27	Thanks. CS agrees and I should probably correct my GM.
#474 tshern Feb 15, 2008 18:31:00	I don't know if this has been mentioned, but the rainbow location in complete mage is really sweet for high level druids. 2k gp for 1/day triple the duration of a single transmution spell. That's a lot cheaper than a greater metamagic rod of extend for shapechange. And it STACKS with a rod too...
#475 bayar Mar 19, 2008 13:54:56	Now dont hit me with rocks. Has anyone used the "slow" spell from Book of erotic fantasies? forgot it's name, but it halves the targets speed to a minimum of 5 Ft and counters Expeditious retreat. Is this useful ?
#476 cannibalsmith Mar 19, 2008 15:19:07	No, I haven't. No, it's not, because Entangle does the same thing, only better.
#477 moody Mar 19, 2008 22:10:41	I asked my dm if we could somehow manage for me to speak normally while wild shaped. I suggested a magic item, but in the end he decided to make it a feat. I'd have to take it at 9th. It's worth it to me, as I like to stay wild shaped all day by that lvl. Animal Speech Prerequisites: Able to Wild Shape Benefit: You are able to transform your vocal chords along with your wild shape ability to allow you to speak normally while wild shaped.
#478 green_eyes Mar 20, 2008 1:04:48	You people do want to make the MoMF utterly useless, don't you? He gets the ability at his first lvl. Usually you solve this speech problem with an amulet of speak with animals, or telepathy. But the feat is a good solution too. Cookies to your DM.
#479 dirkformica Mar 20, 2008 1:45:26	Green Eyes, I thought Enhance Wildshape from Spell Compendium already hammered the last nail in the Master of Many Forms coffin? ;)
#480 green_eyes Mar 20, 2008 2:10:37	Nah, it just made him jumpy.
#481 The_Orange_Pet Mar 26, 2008 0:41:49	Mentioned this? Tool-User Form: Briarvex (MMIV); Large Plant; 8 HD; 25 Str; 10 Dex; 19 Con; +10 NA Seems like a top choice for pre-Legendary Ape tool-user. Yes...no?
#482 cannibalsmith Mar 26, 2008 1:24:55	Wow! How didn't I notice it before! Excellent replacement for Wood Woad.
#483 The_Orange_Pet Mar 26, 2008 1:54:05	Wow! How didn't I notice it before! Excellent replacement for Wood Woad. Yup. Its accessible at Druid 8 thru Enhance Wild Shape too. I'm pumped about busting this out with Greater Luminous Armor and Monk's Belt.
#484 archmagemorgoloth Mar 26, 2008 9:14:36	One thing I don't see mention of in this guide that I'd like to hear more about is the Elemental Companion variant that is available. Is it just not worth getting? I've tried it for myself and it does seem like the elementals suffer from being unable to get buff spells cast on them such as Animal Growth. Could there be a way to improve them? Outside of the "Bite of the Were" spells I been using?
#485 Dictum_Mortuum Mar 26, 2008 9:36:38	i don't think elemental companion is worth it, but i may be wrong. There are some links in the linkies ^^ A known race that is not mentioned here is dragonborn buomman
#486 cannibalsmith Mar 26, 2008 9:53:23	Elemental Companion is more like a familiar. He's not as good at combat, but is intelligent and can talk. It's a completely different play style. Is he worth it? Depends.
#487 nephelim Mar 26, 2008 20:09:13	When a druid wildshapes, the duration states that it lasts for the duration "or until she changes back." With all the changes and "clarifications" regarding wildshape that have come and gone, was layering wildshapes ever conclusively addressed? Clearly the effects of one Wildshape would be surpressed by another, but if you had used Enhance Wildshape, then wildshaped again into something without reverting to "normal" between, when you drop the second wildshape, the first should return, still under the effects of the Enhance Wild Shape (even though the second WS did not receive the benefits of the spell, obviously). Am I reading that right?
#488 The_Orange_Pet Mar 26, 2008 23:36:28	When a druid wildshapes, the duration states that it lasts for the duration "or until she changes back." With all the changes and "clarifications" regarding wildshape that have come and gone, was layering wildshapes ever conclusively addressed? Clearly the effects of one Wildshape would be surpressed by another, but if you had used Enhance Wildshape, then wildshaped again into something without reverting to "normal" between, when you drop the second wildshape, the first should return, still under the effects of the Enhance Wild Shape (even though the second WS did not receive the benefits of the spell, obviously). Am I reading that right? Yup.
#489 nephelim Mar 27, 2008 5:41:51	Where is the ruling on this? FAQ?
#490 The_Orange_Pet Mar 27, 2008 10:15:48	Where is the ruling on this? FAQ? What are you getting at? Its always been like that. Its just the way WS works.
#491 nephelim Mar 27, 2008 12:41:56	not getting at anything... just looking for verification for my DM. I think I found what I needed inthe FAQ. Thanks!
#492 The_Orange_Pet Mar 29, 2008 23:57:18	One thing I don't see mention of in this guide that I'd like to hear more about is the Elemental Companion variant that is available. Is it just not worth getting? I've tried it for myself and it does seem like the elementals suffer from being unable to get buff spells cast on them such as Animal Growth. Could there be a way to improve them? Outside of the "Bite of the Were" spells I been using? These guys are just plain weak. You're sacrificing an ability that basically gives your party an additional squishy melee buddy, as such you need to compare the benefits with the same purpose in mind. This variant would not be playable for any character starting below level 10. At that point Large Earth Elementals come into the picture and make it much more attractive. Most druids will not consider this an option.
#493 Omen_of_Peace Mar 30, 2008 0:55:37	Combat is not everything... I would ask if you can retrain some of their feats though : Previn once made an Air Elemental battlefield controller that was pretty good.
#494 Chaos_Redefined Mar 30, 2008 6:09:58	Even early in the game, there is something about 100 ft fly speed and flyby attack does seem to offer some sort of help. I just need to find a way to get good use of the dex at the same time.
#495 The_Orange_Pet Mar 30, 2008 21:13:02	Are there any "Humanoid Shaped" aberrations aside from the various mind flayers? Enhance Wildshape seems so damn good when used to gain SR, but I need a wider array of forms at various levels from 9-17 HD. Also, am I to assume that the SR from forms scales with your HD? Does it scale with HD or class levels?
#496 cannibalsmith Mar 31, 2008 0:23:51	Elan.
#497 nephelim Mar 31, 2008 5:36:12	Are there any "Humanoid Shaped" aberrations aside from the various mind flayers? Enhance Wildshape seems so damn good when used to gain SR, but I need a wider array of forms at various levels from 9-17 HD. Also, am I to assume that the SR from forms scales with your HD? Does it scale with HD or class levels? The Crystal Keep Indexes have a list of monsters by HD that breaks them down by type. That might have what you need. As far as SR scaling, that depends entirely on the critter. Mind Flayers SR does (iirc) scale by Class\HD, but that does not mean that others do. You could certainly make the case with your DM, but I think RAW, some do and some do not.
#498 hellgrammite00 Apr 01, 2008 13:06:21	Quick question guys. We are starting a Drow campaign this week (all PCs have to be Drow.) We have a duskblade, Cleric, Warmage, and Ninja. The fifth member wants to be a druid. Drow have a the LA+2. I am convinced a druid is a poor choice for the underdark drow. Drow have a -2 to constitution, which alone should be very discouraging. She wants to be able to transform, and have a familar (she should just be a sorc.) Do you guys agree that a druid may be a bad, if not weak choice for a drow city campaign. I have a feeling if she doe she will be the first member of the group to get killed by a teammember, or killed by a royal family.
#499 miscdebris Apr 01, 2008 13:21:17	Child of Winter, Vermin Companion, and Vermin Shape, are pretty flavorful additions, allowing the summoning, companioning, and shaping into spiders. Master of Many Forms can do well in the Underdark.
#500 cannibalsmith Apr 01, 2008 13:22:59	No. All the rival drow will have -2 to Con and +2 LA too.
#501 miscdebris Apr 01, 2008 13:31:09	And, if she plays a wildshaping druid, she only loses the hit points. The rest of the con penalties are completely ignored while wildshaped.
#502 snizor Apr 01, 2008 13:33:41	Child of Winter, Vermin Companion, and Vermin Shape, are pretty flavorful additions, allowing the summoning, companioning, and shaping into spiders. Master of Many Forms can do well in the Underdark. Also, This Article gives a list of vermin companions that you can get without a specialized feat.
#503 hellgrammite00 Apr 01, 2008 13:38:42	I meant that the +2 really could be bad for her (she may not live long enough to get to change shape much). I dont want her to be off in the corner having fun with her familiar, and get killed too quickly. I am suggesting an archivist for her. She loves knowledge, and in the underdark this could be a really fun class. I really like the druid, but a female druid drow commoner doesnt seem like something that will live long... *edit-- since most of the creatures there are vermin, wouldnt she be at a disadvantage?
#504 miscdebris Apr 01, 2008 13:40:57	Child of Winter is still needed as it allows the druid's animal spells and abilities to work on vermin.
#505 cannibalsmith Apr 01, 2008 13:47:22	I meant that the +2 really could be bad for her (she may not live long enough to get to change shape much). But the other drow will have their class abilities retarded too. For example, enemy drow casters won't have the fireballs (or what have you) to blast your friend apart with.
#506 hellgrammite00 Apr 01, 2008 15:50:35	MiscDebris Child of Winter is still needed as it allows the druid's animal spells and abilities to work on vermin. From the link below I did note this.... Share Spells (Ex): The druid can share spells with a vermin companion in the same way that she can share spells with an animal companion. snizor Quote: Originally Posted by MiscDebris Child of Winter, Vermin Companion, and Vermin Shape, are pretty flavorful additions, allowing the summoning, companioning, and shaping into spiders. Master of Many Forms can do well in the Underdark. Also, This Article gives a list of vermin companions that you can get without a specialized feat http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040705a.
#507 snizor Apr 01, 2008 16:01:24	From the link below I did note this.... Share Spells (Ex): The druid can share spells with a vermin companion in the same way that she can share spells with an animal companion. Druid vermin companions are treated as magical beasts (enhanced vermin) for purposes of effects that depend on its type (though it retains its vermin type and traits, vermin Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saves, skill points, and feats). However, most useful spells that affect animals still do not affect vermin companions. emphasis mine You'll still want Child of Winter for Animal Growth goodness.
#508 hellgrammite00 Apr 01, 2008 16:07:58	Ah yes, very good.
#509 direfrostwolf Apr 01, 2008 22:58:28	hi i kind of new in this but i love druids and this forum is quite good I have some questions: 1.- how outdated is the book of the quintessensial druid? can it be use in 3.5 edition game? i say it because i found a copy of it and i saw many interesting things such as the Elemental summoning(metamagic) and equipment master(general) feats, some nice armors, the creature harvesting part and some nice spells 2.-same question about the book master of the wild for the create infusion (item creation) feat and also about foraging and gardening Any idea, insight or advice would be nice please, THX
#510 gawainbs Apr 02, 2008 3:13:49	The Quintessential Druid HB is very much outdated. It's early 3.0 and third party, IIRC. Masters of the Wild is about the same time, but it's official Wizards material and is considered usable with 3.5, barring the changes mentioned in the errata.
#511 pfooti Apr 02, 2008 6:49:01	As a more general point, the "quintessential" series (there was one for each class, IIRC) was generally considered to be interesting, but very overpowered. Some DMs might allow it still, but use them with caution, since they really are cheesily strong in places.
#512 radijs Apr 02, 2008 10:03:14	I personally do not allow any of the quintessential books. They can be horribly overpowered.
#513 direfrostwolf Apr 02, 2008 13:39:20	thanks for your answers, asked about it because i really like the elemental summoning feat, there were 5 spell that i think a druid, a protector of nature should have(blossoming footsteps, be a tree, oakwatch, sow forest and tree shelter), only be a tree is attack, i don't consider them over power , the feat maybe, but with the other summoning feats i've read in here i wouldn't consider it overpowered either:P one more thing, could you tell me in which book i could find information about the amulet of the druid? i think that's the name
#514 nabuchadnezzar Apr 06, 2008 8:50:51	The OP suggests to avoid Exalted Animal Companion feat. I made a level 7 Ghostwise Halfling Druid with 1st substitution level and VoP taken at 1st level (thanks to the "slow" flaw). I think that EAC is a great feat for such a character: INT 3 lets me communicate with my EAC with Speak without Sound because the EAC knows Common. Darkvision is handy and DR, energy resistances and SR don't hurt either. Also, as a Magical Beast, she is immune to charm and command animals and by 4th HD she can pass DR X/magic. Since I must choose some free Exalted feats with VoP, I think that EAC is worth it at least if granted by Vow of Poverty free feats. Intuitive Attack couples well with IUS and Touch of Golden Ice in normal halfling form (str 6, dex 10 but wis 18 ) if I want to preserve my wild shapes.
#515 cannibalsmith Apr 06, 2008 10:48:06	I think that Exalted Companion is awesome because it offers the Blink Dog. Read its Dimension Door ability. Giggle exaltedly. Exalted Wild Shape is awesome for the same reason.
#516 CubeKnight Apr 06, 2008 15:13:29	I think that Exalted Companion is awesome because it offers the Blink Dog. Read its Dimension Door ability. Giggle exaltedly. Exalted Wild Shape is awesome for the same reason. +1 I played an Exalted Druid with EAC once, and there was no place I couldn't get to.
#517 Omen_of_Peace Apr 06, 2008 21:58:12	When you have enough Wildshape uses, free action dimension door (Blink Dog form) + swift wildshape is a long range pounce (which also bypasses longer reach, difficult terrain, etc...). Costly, and somewhat situational, but almost impossible to predict...
#518 cannibalsmith Apr 07, 2008 0:30:01	It's also an insanely fast mode of overland travel. 720 ft. + 40 ft. = 760 ft. = 86 mph Of course, nothing beats Control Winds' 175+ mph.
#519 nabuchadnezzar Apr 07, 2008 6:53:13	I think that Exalted Companion is awesome because it offers the Blink Dog. Read its Dimension Door ability. Giggle exaltedly. Exalted Wild Shape is awesome for the same reason. A druid can't have a Blink Dog as animal companion. But I think that Exalted Wild Shape is everyone's favorite feat at level 8 (VoP) or 9. Blink dogs are awesome :D
#520 voxpvoxd Apr 07, 2008 7:01:41	This might not be the right place to ask this, but does anyone know of a druid spell that can conjure trees? I know there's the Oak Token that can do it, but I was wondering if there was an option that wouldn't cost anything.
#521 cannibalsmith Apr 07, 2008 7:03:11	There is none that I know of.
#522 voxpvoxd Apr 07, 2008 7:14:30	That seems like kind of a strange oversight. You look at all the wacky stuff Druids can do, and yet for some reason nobody ever thought of giving them the power to create plants. Thanks, though!
#523 radijs Apr 07, 2008 8:49:16	Closest thing I can think of is plant growth. A few castings could produce quite a sturdy tree.
#524 direfrostwolf Apr 07, 2008 13:37:27	There's a spell to create tree but it's on the quintessential druid book 2 is called sow forest (level 7), it instantly creates a large tree quite similar to the tree token and the tree never disappears
#525 direfrostwolf Apr 07, 2008 13:38:29	There's a spell to create trees but it's on the quintessential druid book 2 is called sow forest (level 7), it instantly creates a large tree quite similar to the tree token and the tree never disappears
#526 joemama1512 Apr 10, 2008 10:21:18	Druid Arcane Package -------------------- This "package" allows you to sacrifice just 1 level of your druidic abilities in exchange for a lot of versatility gained from Arcane Hierophant (AH). It works best for a medium to high level druid (9+). Normally, AH eats up at least 3 levels making it an interesting class, but it changes the flavor of the character to a non-druid. This package is intended to give some options for fixing this. Example of Use: --------------- Consider a 17th level character: Illumian, any alignment. Take Krau and any other sigil. 1 druid - any feat. 2 druid 3 wizard - Improved Sigil:Krau. optional: Choose favored specialization 4 druid 5 druid 6 druid - natural spell 7 druid 8 Arcane Hierophant 9 AH - Arcane Strike 10 AH 11 AH 12 AH - any feat 13 AH 14 AH 15 AH - any feat 16 AH 17 AH Explanation: ------------ The character has full 16th level druidic capability at 17th level caster, AND 11th level wizard casting at 13th caster level. The companion familiar has 16th level animal companion power, PLUS 11th level wizard familiar abilities such as improved evasion, free alertness for master, intelligence, etc. The character LOSES 1 level of wildshape, druidic spell aquisition, at least 1 BAB, and some HitPoints. Note also that AH has d6 instead of d8. I think this is a pretty good tradeoff since you gain so much more versatility with spells, and the SMART (read as: no tricks required), tough companion familiar is extremely flexible. Theoretically your familiar could translate for you in wildshape form, if it can itself speak. (any ideas on how to do this?) Compare this package with the gains picked up by Nature's Warrior, 1 monk level, and Warshaped Whatever. I think it picks up a lot more utility for the 1 druidic level loss than the others. Illumian's Krau sigel adds +2 caster level to ALL spellcasting types, so it works like a mini-practiced caster. Works great for this build. Improved Sigil: Krau allows you to pick two of your wizard spells, and you can cast them as 2nd level spells. (just like heighten spell, it gains +1 DC and all other effects from being a 2nd level spell). This is the only tricky part, so you need to ask your DM about this intent. It qualifies you for AH (with 2nd level arcane spellcasting). This is not really THAT much of a stretch since it seems to be a common interpretation on the boards. optional: Arcane Strike - Lets you sacrifice ANY spell slot (likely the wizard ones) to add +X to hit and +Xd4 to damage, for all attacks for 1 full round. You can do this as a swift action, so it is really strong with forms that have multiple attacks (especially with a cat pounce w/ rakes). This is an excellent way to burn your unneeded "utility" wizard slots to gain a big attack. Optional: Favored Specialization - Since you already have almost full druid casting, I would specialize in Conjuration, and ditch evocation(combat wiz spells not so handy at low levels), necromancy(RolePlay reasons), and 1 more school. This gives you a LOT of extra spell slots, which can be used for buffs, utility, and fed to Arcane Strike. Consider an 11th level wizard with 4/4/4/3/2/1 progression. A focused specialist has 6/6/6/5/4/3, which provides many more higher level slots for use. Note that you will need a 16 INT by level 17 to make use of the highest wizard spell levels. This should not be a big problem by then though.
#527 joemama1512 Apr 10, 2008 10:21:56	Druidic Divine Persistence usage pseudo-template TL;DR version: Use Divine Metamagic Persistence on a nasty high level buff for uber wildshape beatdown. -------------- After reading the druidic handbooks and several other sources, I have not seen any mention of druids using divine metamagic. It seems like a shift-heavy druid could make excellent use of this to increase his offensive potential. Currently, pumping wild shape seems to consist of several unsatisfactory methods. Natures Warrior trades 1 level of spellcasting for 1 decent buff. Warshaper trades wildshape stack AND 1 casting level for a good buff. Monk 1 trades 1 druidic level for +WIS to AC, which a Monks Belt can maybe duplicate. Restricts alignment too. Lion of Thasid is decent, but loses 2 wildshape levels basically for moderate buffs. I was thinking that it might be better to go with divine metamagic instead. A medium level druid could obtain a 24hr persistent Bite of the Wearbear and pick up: +16 STR!! +7 natural AC (no need for barkskin) +8 CON (that actually would enhance HPs so you can survive melee) potential addition/upgrade of current form's bite/claw attack. free power attack feat. Free blindfight feat. Possible multi-attack feat granted (according to a thread with a customer service reply) depending on your interpretation of the rules. This seems really good to me, especially on top of a strong wildshape with natural spell for casting. You could take it further and do an EXTENDED persistent buff for 48 hours, and thus alternate and have two buffs active at a time. Or, with nightsticks and/or Extra Turning and/or good CHA, you can gain more persistent power. The technique works well starting at around 6th level. The technique would require: ---------------------------- extend spell - Good to have anyways. persistent spell - Potentially useful, but mostly a prereq. Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell - The cheeze. 7 uses of Turn Undead. (1 +6 magic lvls from persistence) Not too bad... except for the 7 Turn Undead thing. That breaks down as: Turn Undead - 1 level of cleric is probably the easiest and best way to do this. Other classes will eat too many levels or dont even work (Master of Radience for example). That gives a base of 3 turns per day. You need to cough up 4 more, either from a CHA modifier OR extra turning feat. Extended Cost of Technique: --------------------------- A level of cleric will set your wildshape and spellcasting back 1 level of course. This is unfortunate, but I believe it is worthwhile. You also lose 1 BAB, and might even have XP penalty issues. Obviously, dont use this if that would be the case. Mitigation of Cost: ------------------- a. In taking a cleric level, you do gain some other nice abilities that help defray the cost somewhat: 1. Quite a few useful level 1 clerical spells - With high WIS already, you will pick up several bonus spells that you dont have access to already. Protection from Evil is a good example, even at 1 minute duration. I guess you could theoretically persist it if you were in dire need... 2. Two domains - You get 2 feats/abilities that can significantly defray the cost of the clerical level. Preparation domain adds Extended Spell for free, and Undeath gives you Extra Turning for +4 turns per day! That means only 10 CHA is necessary. Plus you might pick up a few more useful lvl1 domain spells. Alternatively, you can pick domains that are more druid-appropriate that give you useful feats and abilities instead, and just eat the cost of Extra Turning or use CHA. 3. Using the cleric variant, Cloistered Cleric, you can pick up some extra skill knowledge, speak language, knowledge domain, and Identify,Erase,Unseen Servant, and Message spells. Taking it at level 1 ensures an extra 8 skillpoints and the lower BAB does not affect you since you only take 1 level. Lack of armor proficiencies is likewise irrelevant. b. Using Flaws can give you the extra feats needed to pull off the technique. Shaky (-2 ranged attacks) and Murky Eyed (problems hitting concealed enemies) are not too bad. c. If Nightsticks are allowed, they cost 7500 gold each and add 4 extra turning attempts per day. Carrying around lots of these could theoretically allow a lot more divine metamagic. (it is kind of cheezy though to have multiples) d. The Holy Monk variant from Dragon Magazine provides TURN UNDEAD, instead of a free feat at 1st level, and is otherwise identical. This would mean no free domain feats and thus eat into your feat list. However, you would also pick up the mighty +WIS to AC, AND turn undead all with one level! Putting it all Together: ------------------------ Here is a basic, generic example. 1 Any Race, druid, lawful neutral - extend spell 2 druid 3 druid - persistent spell 4 druid 5 druid 6 druid - natural spell 7 druid 8 druid 9 Holy Monk - Divine Metamagic: persistent spell 10 druid... .. and so forth. 10CHA and 1 nightstick = 1 persistent spell. A more complicated example with more cheeze: Anthromorphic Bat, LA 0. middle aged. High WIS, good CON, decent INT, ok CHA, weak STR, DEX. Assume build starts at around level 6+ or it will be rather difficult to play well. 1 Cloistered Cleric - Sacred Vow, Turn Undead 3x per day, domain 1: Preparation - Extended Spell free feat domain 2: Undeath - Extra Turning free feat Flaw: Shaky - gained: Kiss of the Nymph, Flaw: Murky Eyed - gained: Persistent Spell 24 starting skillpoints. 2 druid - free exalted feat: Touch of Golden Ice 3 druid - Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell. 4 druid - +1WIS, free exalted feat: Exalted Companion 5 druid 6 druid - free exalted feat: Gift of Faith , NATURAL SPELL 7 druid 8 druid - +1WIS, free exalted feat: Sanctify Natural Wpn (if 15 CHA) 9 druid - Some feat. 10 druid - free exalted feat: Exalted Wild Shape ... and so on. So at 3rd level forward, you can persist ANY spell in you inventory, including the 1st level clerical ones. Conclusion: ----------- If you like the idea of focusing on fighting in wildshape form instead of pure spellcasting or summoning, this option may appeal to you. As long as you don't cheeze it up too much (with multiple nightsticks), you can probably get away with it.
#528 joemama1512 Apr 11, 2008 10:16:21	You could also combine the two approaches above. It is worthwhile if you are playing at 10th level or higher the majority of the time in the campaign. Example: Illumian - Krau, Nar(or whatever) sigils. 1 Holy Monk - extend spell flaw: persistent spell flaw: divine metamagic: persistent spell 2 druid 3 wizard - (class choice:focused specialist: conjuration), Improved sigil:Krau 4 druid 5 druid 6 druid - Extra Turning 7 druid 8 druid 9 Arcane Hierophant - Natural Spell 10 AH 11 AH 12 AH - Arcane Strike 13-19 AH 20 druid. As you can see, some sacrifices must be made compared to the single trick versions. However, you gain some really nice abilities. Persistent Bite of the Foo overcomes your lousy BAB, as does Arcane Strike. Gaining your WIS to AC is very strong, and does NOT combine with Wild armor/shield. However, you can get around this issue with the Shield spell, Mages Armor, or Luminious Armor. Animated shield may or may not count against your WIS AC from monk. Note: If you can get a monk's belt instead and a wilder clasp, you dont even need the monk. In that case, this entire build becomes worthless and you can stick to the normal Cloistered Cleric approach instead of holy monk. Improvements: ------------- Fractional BAB would help a LOT! At level 7 you have a BAB of 3! With fractional, you have 15/4ths druid, 2/4ths wizard, 3/4ths monk for a BAB of 5! This lets you enter Arcane Hierophant 1 level earlier which is excellent. You could ALSO qualify for Arcane Strike at level 6 which would be very beneficial. At level 19 RAW your BAB = 11. (12 at 20) With fractional at 19 your BAB = 18/4 +2/4 +3/4 +30/4 = 53/4 = 13 & 1/4th. (14 at 20) Using a wildshape before napping to turn into a maximum STR form, with EXTENDED persistent Bite of the Wearboar still functional after sleeping could result in a LOT of extra spell slots, depending on your DM. The NauuKrau sigil word says you can use your Strength instead of your normal attribute when determining bonus spells. Imagine this druid using his 44 Strength score for bonus wizard and druid spells instead of the normal INT and WIS! (28 from a big animal +16 bite) Nightsticks add 4 turn attempts per day. If you can use one, you could replace extra turning with something else. If you can use 2 of them (unclear ruling), then each pair = 1 more persisted spell per day! They are fairly cheap, so if you can stack them... do it! To limit cheeziness, Id recommend keep extra turning so you can persist with no item assistance, and 2 rods for a extra persist. Dont forget your +2 caster level for druid AND wizard (and even cloistered cleric if taken instead of monk), due to Krau sigil.
#529 bounces Apr 14, 2008 15:19:39	I wasn't able to go through the entire handbook, because there are alot of posts here...but I am cursious, has anyone said anything about Killoren as a viable druid race? It is fey type which makes you immune to the X-person line of spells. Is this good or bad? You can't get enlarged, but you also can't get charmed or held. The Manifestation of Aspects is an interesting dynamic and gives more versatility to a Druid which most people will agree is already brimming with it. Downside being if you want to use Aspect of the Destroyer to any good effect you can't dump stat your Cha. Finally All of the elemental languages are in the bonus language list for them, which is nice if you want to go the route of an elemental companion.
#530 thinkingbox Apr 14, 2008 17:12:47	I wasn't able to go through the entire handbook, because there are alot of posts here...but I am cursious, has anyone said anything about Killoren as a viable druid race? It is fey type which makes you immune to the X-person line of spells. Is this good or bad? You can't get enlarged, but you also can't get charmed or held. With Will as a good save and WIS as your main stat, the odds of you failing a save against the X Person spells is minimal. Plus, at higher levels you will still be susceptible to the X Monster line, although the probability is also low.
#531 rasmfrackn Apr 18, 2008 17:51:09	It's also an insanely fast mode of overland travel. 720 ft. + 40 ft. = 760 ft. = 86 mph Of course, nothing beats Control Winds' 175+ mph. This thread spans so much calendar time, maybe it's in here and I've forgotten already... How does a druid avoid the nonlethal damage by traveling via Control Winds + Air Walk? Flying creatures are supposedly buffeted for 2d6x10 feet and thus 2d6 nonlethal damage in tornado force winds. Air walk even says that "The creature may be subject to additional penalties in exceptionally strong or turbulent winds, such as loss of control over movement or physical damage from being buffeted about." I'm probably just missing something, yet again, and plopping in Air Walk when I should be using a different spell... /goes off to find the druid spell combos thread again
#532 nabuchadnezzar Apr 18, 2008 18:52:07	wrong topic, delete this please
#533 miscdebris Apr 18, 2008 19:19:57	I wasn't able to go through the entire handbook, because there are alot of posts here...but I am cursious, has anyone said anything about Killoren as a viable druid race? It is fey type which makes you immune to the X-person line of spells. Is this good or bad? You can't get enlarged, but you also can't get charmed or held. The Manifestation of Aspects is an interesting dynamic and gives more versatility to a Druid which most people will agree is already brimming with it. Downside being if you want to use Aspect of the Destroyer to any good effect you can't dump stat your Cha. Finally All of the elemental languages are in the bonus language list for them, which is nice if you want to go the route of an elemental companion. I believe they can make a decent druid. Especially if you like the feat Magic of the Land. If you are in a natural setting, and you make a DC15+spell level knowledge nature check, you can heal 2 points per level to those in the area of effect. I use it with my spirit shaman to do long range stabilization of our poor scout with entangle. (poor bugger ain't made a good spot, listen, or init yet) Use Aspect of the Ancient to add your HD to your knowledge nature check to auto magic of the land VERY quickly, from 6th level on with just ranks and this ability alone.
#534 cannibalsmith Apr 19, 2008 5:47:44	How does a druid avoid the nonlethal damage by traveling via Control Winds + Air Walk? Flying creatures are supposedly buffeted for 2d6x10 feet and thus 2d6 nonlethal damage in tornado force winds. Air walk even says that "The creature may be subject to additional penalties in exceptionally strong or turbulent winds, such as loss of control over movement or physical damage from being buffeted about." Common sense and physics (hey, my DM bought it - yours might too). The wind blows me with it, right? As I accelerate, wind speed relative to me decreases until my speed matches that of the wind, and relative wind speed equals zero. Thus no damage. If I increase the wind speed gradually, I will take no damage at all.
#535 auxitius Apr 19, 2008 6:27:24	c. If Nightsticks are allowed, they cost 4000 gold each and add 4 extra turning attempts per day. Carrying around lots of these could theoretically allow a lot more divine metamagic. I'm pretty sure a Nightstick is 7,500 gp
#536 rasmfrackn Apr 30, 2008 15:42:26	Common sense and physics (hey, my DM bought it - yours might too). The wind blows me with it, right? As I accelerate, wind speed relative to me decreases until my speed matches that of the wind, and relative wind speed equals zero. Thus no damage. If I increase the wind speed gradually, I will take no damage at all. Ok, that's what I thought. It does make sense but it's not explicit anywhere so I was just wondering if I was missing some text from somewhere.
#537 miscdebris Apr 30, 2008 21:38:40	A windstorm is not smooth and straight like a wind tunnel. The damage is from the buffeting you receive from the wind as much as the wind speed itself. Ride a motorcycle with a strong tailwind once. It's exhausting, and fast. Not as bad as a headwind, but...
#538 cannibalsmith May 01, 2008 1:04:14	That's not a very good analogy, because motorcycles aren't buoyant in air, and the wind is not magically controlled.
#539 GnomeBoy May 01, 2008 9:28:16	...Flying creatures are supposedly buffeted... So, um, wait... the rules say, "supposedly"? ...Ride a motorcycle with a strong tailwind once... Seems like a valid comparison to me. Buffeting in the rules, buffeting in real life... Isn't that what comparisons are all about?
#540 miscdebris May 01, 2008 9:57:00	That's not a very good analogy, because motorcycles aren't buoyant in air, and the wind is not magically controlled. Neither are birds and aircraft. ;) Balloons would have a lot of trouble in high wind. Aircraft can get buffeted pretty badly with a tailwind too. I may grant you the magical portion though This whole point is moot anyway. The effect is in a static location 800 feet wide at level 20. Burning a 5th level spell to move 800 feet when tree stride can do better than that as a 5th level spell, and transport via plants is 6th. How hard is it to come upon teleport?
#541 cannibalsmith May 01, 2008 10:20:34	The effect is in a static location I contend that it's not. The description doesn't say that it's static, but it does say You alter wind force in the area surrounding you. which does imply that the spell moves with you. You forget one huge drawback of teleport-class spells - they can't take you into an unfamiliar area.
#542 miscdebris May 01, 2008 14:28:19	When casting a cylinder-shaped spell, you select the spell’s point of origin. This point is the center of a horizontal circle, and the spell shoots down from the circle, filling a cylinder. A cylinder-shaped spell ignores any obstructions within its area. Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don’t control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. Thus, it doesn't move. Wind Strength For every three caster levels, you can increase or decrease wind strength by one level. Each round on your turn, a creature in the wind must make a Fortitude save or suffer the effect of being in the windy area. Strong winds (21+ mph) make sailing difficult. A severe wind (31+ mph) causes minor ship and building damage. A windstorm (51+ mph) drives most flying creatures from the skies, uproots small trees, knocks down light wooden structures, tears off roofs, and endangers ships. Hurricane force winds (75+ mph) destroy wooden buildings, sometimes uproot even large trees, and cause most ships to founder. A tornado (175+ mph) destroys all nonfortified buildings and often uproots large trees. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/weather.htm#winds Specifically: Blown Away: Creatures on the ground are knocked prone and rolled 1d4
#543 phaedrusxy May 01, 2008 14:33:58	About Teleport, assuming that a druid has it, it's not all that hard for a druid to scry. You can't normally scry on locations, though. Only creatures. So if you know someone is at the location you want to go to, you could do it. But you couldn't just scry on the location itself.
#544 miscdebris May 01, 2008 15:47:23	Got me there...
#545 Omen_of_Peace May 01, 2008 17:24:01	You can't normally scry on locations, though. Only creatures. So if you know someone is at the location you want to go to, you could do it. But you couldn't just scry on the location itself. Scry Location (Complete Scoundrel). It's Druid 7 though.
#546 anyrandomelf May 21, 2008 16:36:23	Strange Question here... It seems that Dire animals are often recommend wildshape forms, but Wild Shape: At 5th level, a druid gains the spell-like ability to polymorph self into a Small or Medium-size animal (but not a dire animal) and back again once per day (see the polymorph self spell, page 237). it seems you cannot wildshape into a dire form. Did I miss something?
#547 radijs May 21, 2008 17:04:54	Well the druid's wild shape has gotten quite a bit of errata since the PhB was published. Look here for up-to-date rules: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#wildShape
#548 anyrandomelf May 21, 2008 17:29:46	Well the druid's wild shape has gotten quite a bit of errata since the PhB was published. Look here for up-to-date rules: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#wildShape The SRD does not include the "(but not a dire animal)" text in the PHB, and never has, as far as I can tell. Errated PHB beats SRD, right? Looking at the archives, it seems this has been overlooked for going on 4 years... EDIT Checked the 3.0 corrections and clarifications, and the 3.5 errata and no mention of dire in there... The FAQ dated Mar 14 2008 seems to make the same mistake on page 14. But Perhaps the Sage does not make mistakes and somehow this offhand FAQ entry overrides the PHB?
#549 shokatsuryou May 21, 2008 17:55:54	Strange Question here... It seems that Dire animals are often recommend wildshape forms, but Wild Shape: At 5th level, a druid gains the spell-like ability to polymorph self into a Small or Medium-size animal (but not a dire animal) and back again once per day (see the polymorph self spell, page 237). it seems you cannot wildshape into a dire form. Did I miss something? I am almost 100% positive you are actually looking at the 3.0 PHB. My copy of the 3.5 PHB does not have the note about dire animals in parenthesis. Moreover, polymorph is not found on page 237 of the PHB, it is on page 263. For that matter, it's just called "polymorph" in 3.5, not "polymorph self"...
#550 anyrandomelf May 21, 2008 18:06:13	I am almost 100% positive you are actually looking at the 3.0 PHB. That must be it. Thanks a bunch. And so fast too!
#551 sickseelah1 Jun 30, 2008 17:37:01	Hey guys I looked over the summoning list and noticed that it says "Hippogriffs understand common", and I was looking all over the Monster's Manual and I don't see anything in the texts to indicate that they can. If they are capable then it would make giving them commands a lot easier, but anyhow, if you guys could direct me to where it establishes that I'd appreciate it very much.
#552 Omen_of_Peace Jun 30, 2008 18:28:50	I don't think they do. Perhaps they got confused with Griffons ?
#553 cannibalsmith Jun 30, 2008 22:14:54	Someone said somewhere that it's written somewhere that creatures with Int >2 speak Common by default if they have no language indicated. But that would be nonsense as it would mean thoqquas, who clearly lack the requisite orifices, can speak.
#554 Endarire Jul 17, 2008 18:45:23	MM3 has a wonderful 5HD Medium aberration called the Runehound. Runehounds have 10' reach with their flexible heads (!) and Vile Spew, a 100' spit available every d4 rounds that works as a single-target web or source of 5d6 damage. The only disadvantage to this form its its blindness. If you Assume Supernatural Ability, you can get 500' blindsight. Furthermore, as a supernatural ability, it has +20 to track anything affected by mind-influencing effects.
#555 mdr Jul 17, 2008 21:24:58	Hello! I'm a fairly new player (a couple years now), and I'm trying to create a Druid. But I am having trouble with picking out equipment. Now I realize that Druid's are, for the most part, equipment non-dependant. However, as I am rolling up a 10th level Druid (core only), the ACs of the available animals for me to turn into is rather low. Like 19 or 20. Whereas the rest of the group and the critters we are facing, are in the upper 20s. So I need to buff my AC, especially in Wild Shape. But I have a few questions... 1) Just to make sure...all equipment you are wearing is subsumed into your body and becomes non-functional. This is what the Rules Compendium states. However, on the Wizard's website under the Rules Of The Game section, page three of the Polymorph explanation article states that equipment that your new form can use are not subsumed and remain functional. Does the Rules Of The Game article apply only to the Polymorph spell, and NOT the Druid's Wild Shape ability? 2) If I worship Meilliki (we are in Faerun), and thus can wear metal armor (I think that is how it works), what is to stop me from buying a Full Plate Mail armor and enchanting it with the Wild enchantment? Who cares if I do not have proficiency in that level of armor, since the armor is subsumed anyways? Sure the armor is gone, but I still get its AC bump due to the Wild enchantment...right? Are there negatives to this idea? Wild vs. beastskin vs. wilding clasps...does Wild just win hands down? Especially if you do not plan on using humanoid forms? Any suggestions on what I can do to pump up my Wild Form's AC? I have permission from the DM to become a Smilodon along with any level-legal non-dinosaur, non-legendary creature in the MMs. I plan on staying out of melee fights for the most part, but I want to be able to jump in if needed. We are using starting money of 55,000 gp, and are following the 25% rule. Thanks for any help you can give!
#556 cannibalsmith Jul 17, 2008 22:10:45	1) Yes. 2) Wild armor doesn't get subsumed, but reshapes to fit your new form instead. Mythral Wild fullplate is what you're looking for. Wilding Clasps are for things like Periapt of Wisdom and Monk's Belt. Read more: http://coboard.wikia.com/wiki/Druid#Equipment
#557 mdr Jul 17, 2008 22:44:36	Thanks! So lets say I am wearing mithral chainmail with the Wild enchantment. And lets say I'm wearing a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp. If I turn into a Smilodon which has an AC of 15, and I have a Wis of 20, my AC will go to 25, right? 15+5+5? After that, some of the 'Bite' spells can crank me up very high indeed. So far I have picked Monk's Belt, Ioun Stone +2 Wis (takes me to 20), and a Field Box of Provisions (assuming that the food provided within will support my animal companion and myself if no game can be found). It looks like I will go with the mithral chainmail, and get Wild cast on it. I'll look at the list you linked to...some good ideas there, though I cannot thematically grab more that one item from a set I think. I'll ask my DM. Again, thanks for the quick help!
#558 cannibalsmith Jul 17, 2008 22:49:45	Monk's Belt's ability works only when you're not wearing any armor - just like the actual ability of the Monk class.
#559 Omen_of_Peace Jul 18, 2008 9:17:45	2) It depends on the DM. Wild never mentions if the armor is subsumed or not : "it cannot be seen". Many DMs are likely to rule that armor penalties still apply, given the mild abuse that it otherwise enables (the one you pointed out). An Animated Heavy Shield (Mithral for instance) is another good source of bonus AC.
#560 eldariel Jul 18, 2008 13:26:09	Generally, Monk's Belt alone is enough for AC. If you need additional, Extended Barkskin gives you nice bang for the back, lasting two hours on level 6 and going up from there (and it specifically applies on top of your standard Natural Armor). Also, choosing forms with relatively high base AC is a good idea; Fleshraker has AC 20. Provided you're Middle-Aged Human with 18 Wis (or a race with Wisdom-bonus), by saving your early level money (you really don't need much equipment, so it's doable), or simply by having a crafter in the party, you could have a Monk's Belt by level 6 (level 5 with a crafter). That would give you a total of 25 AC in Wildshape on that level, which is fairly awesome (provided that you put/have your allies put the Monk's Belt on after you Wildshape). If DM doesn't allow this, level 7 will still enable mid 20s AC without spells. Also, almost all of it (everything save for Dex) applies when grappling. Then you just pump up your Wisdom and profit. Oh, Bracers of Armor and Ring of Protection are decent for boosting AC too, but only on later levels once you have the core items together.
#561 mdr Jul 18, 2008 14:01:02	Thanks for the help! It looks like I will be dropping the Monk's Belt, as the armor has a better long-term benefit (Monk's belt isn't going to go much higher than +6 for me...maybe +7 or +8 i suppose if I really pump up my Wis). I'll use the money to buy the animated shield...though I don't think I can get the Heavy Shield. I'll have to check my restrictions, but I think I can just use Ranger eq. Can you think of a reason why I might want the Monk's belt (plus buying Wis buff eq) rather than the armor? Fleshraker is a dinosaur, right? I'm afraid I'm not allowed to use that. According to my DM, dinosaurs do exist in Faerun, but they are all bottled up in some sort of sanctuary I cannot get to by some goddess. I'm thinking my feats will be Natural Spell, Fast Wild Shape, Spell Focus (Conj), Augment Summoning, and Extend Spell. That seems, to me, to be a fairly rounded set of feats. I'm actually thining about dropping the Summoning feats and going with Swift Wild Shape and Spell Penetration, but I'm on the fence about it.
#562 mdr Jul 18, 2008 14:07:36	Hmmmm, or are you saying to get the Monk's Belt, and get Bracers of Armor with Wilding Clasps? Wouldn't they crush my arms if I turn into a bear or something similar?
#563 eldariel Jul 18, 2008 14:17:46	Magic items are said to fit whatever form you assume, so they'd probably simply supersize for your Bearshape. Also, Monk's Belt should give you +12 AC towards the end of your career. 18 Base + 5 levels + 5 Book (around level 16) + 6 item = 34 = +12. Of course, if you've got natural Wis-bonus or added Age or similar, you'll get higher. Heck, get a +5 Book on 16, then have some Wizard arrange you on some accelerated time-demiplane to become Venerable and get +3 to all mental stats with Timeless Body ignoring the physical penalties. That gets you +36 on 16 (+14 AC). Along with base ~20 AC, that's 34. Then add a spell like Barkskin and we're around 39. After that, add +5 Deflection or so, maybe Bracers of Armor +8 and you'll be around 52. In the long term, Monk's Belt is better. Also, around level 12, Middle-Aged Human can have around 18 (base)+1 (Age)+3 (Levels)+4 (Item)=26, so +8. It's definitely worth it. Don't forget that level 5 Monk has also natural +1 to AC, so it's Wis+1.
#564 mdr Jul 18, 2008 14:37:16	My DM doesn't believe that equipment changes size that much. Only slight changes within the size category. So armor for a medium human will not fit a halfling, even if it is magic. Well, I'm level 10, with a Wis score of 18, and no levels in Monk. So right now the Monk's Belt will give me +6 AC. Doesn't Monk's Belt say that if you have no levels in Monk, that you always use the level 5 Monk? So it will never change from that +6 except for changes to my Wis (I'm at work, and do not have the DMG in front of me to verify this...but that is what i remember from reading it last night). Please correct me if I am wrong, I'm trying to learn how all this works . Contingent disappearing EQ sure makes things more complicated than equiping a Paladin! Again, thanks for the help!
#565 eldariel Jul 18, 2008 14:41:57	You're correct. The problem is that your Wis is 18. It should be at least 20+Wis-items on level 10. You should place all your level bonus points in Wis always as a Druid. And start with 18 unless rolling, in which case you start with the highest point in Wis. You could try "retraining" your bonus ability points into Wis if you're allowed. That would work out.
#566 mdr Jul 18, 2008 15:48:51	If I remember correctly, my scores were 17, 17, 15, 13, 12, 11. I cranked up the Wis to 18, to Con to 18, and the Int to 16. I do have an Ioun Stone which takes me to Wis 20. I suppose I could move the point from Int to Wis, but that won't help to much at this level. I want the Con to be 18, because, well, the HPs are really nice. So because of the sizing restrictions, rings and bracers are not available to me. If I focus all my ability points going forward into Wis, that will take me to 24 Wis naturally by level 21. Add a Wis buffer +8 should take me to 32. That would indeed be more than I could get with the armor. Right now the belt will give me +1 more AC than the armor. (15+6=21 vs 15+5=20). However, by the time I level, I should have enough gp to buy a +1 buff on the armor...maybe. At level 12 I can gain another point in Wis, taking me to 20(22), adding a point to AC for the belt, which will bring it again one higher than the armor until I can afford another buff... Okay, I think I see where this is going. The armor, for me, has the *potential* to have a higher AC than the belt for the short term (as long as I have the cash to buy the buffs), but after I max that out at +5, the Belt could still grow and will reign supreme. I think I will take your advice, get the belt and save my money. If there is something wrong with my math, please let me know. I never was very good with numbers. Thanks for all the help! Hopefully other new players can read this and get a better handle on how equipment works with Wild Shape.
#567 eldariel Jul 18, 2008 15:52:13	With those stats, you should really have been Middle-Aged. 18 Wis, 16 Con, all others going evenly except for the 12 (which becomes 11).
#568 direfrostwolf Jul 19, 2008 21:42:52	Hello everybody i've visited several threads and i saw a good race for druid called forest gnome that has the ability to speak with forest animals and use pass without trace at will, could anyone tell where can i find information about it? thanks for the information you can provide...........
#569 miscdebris Jul 20, 2008 0:25:31	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnome.htm#forestGnome
#570 direfrostwolf Aug 06, 2008 15:55:16	Hi everyone according to the druid handbook blue wood is in the Unapproachable East book but i didn't see it, could anyone tell me the specific page where it is or tell me the qualities of bluewood? Thanks in advance for the help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#571 shriekingdrake Aug 06, 2008 16:31:33	Hi everyone according to the druid handbook blue wood is in the Unapproachable East book but i didn't see it, could anyone tell me the specific page where it is or tell me the qualities of bluewood? Thanks in advance for the help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Page 58, under special materials. -- ShriekingDrake
#572 lael Aug 06, 2008 23:13:42	Hey does anyone know a spell that functions like Barkskin but is an hour per level? I'm just finding that if we are doing a serious dungeon crawl I chew up a lot of my spells to keep that on.
#573 direfrostwolf Aug 08, 2008 20:19:50	HI again sorry for bothering so much :P but i have a big doubt that eating me from the inside out, could anyone tell me how a widshape amulet works? according to the book it saids that "the wild shape amulet allows a druid to use her wild shape ability as she were 4 levels higher. If she has not yet acquired the wild shape ability, the amulet allows her wild shape ability as a 5th level druid." ok, someone told me that the amulet gives you only +4HD for wildshaping but that it? because for example if i were a 8th level druid, i would be able to wildshape 3/day into large,medium and small animals with a max of 8HD, and a 12th level druid would be able to wildshape 4/day into large,medium,small, and tiny animals or plants with a max of 12HD. So if i had a wildshape amulet and i were a 8th level druid, that would only give the ability to wildshape 3/day into large, medium and small animals with a max of 12hd, right? or not?
#574 direfrostwolf Aug 08, 2008 20:22:25	:D HI again sorry for bothering so much :P but i have a big doubt that eating me from the inside out, could anyone tell me how a widshape amulet works? according to the book it saids that "the wild shape amulet allows a druid to use her wild shape ability as she were 4 levels higher. If she has not yet acquired the wild shape ability, the amulet allows her wild shape ability as a 5th level druid." ok, someone told me that the amulet gives you only +4HD for wildshaping but that it? because for example if i were a 8th level druid, i would be able to wildshape 3/day into large,medium and small animals with a max of 8HD, and a 12th level druid would be able to wildshape 4/day into large,medium,small, and tiny animals or plants with a max of 12HD. So if i had a wildshape amulet and i were a 8th level druid, that would only give the ability to wildshape 3/day into large, medium and small animals with a max of 12hd, right? or not? Thanks in advance for any light you could throw to solve this problem to me. and if you could also tell me if there is somewhere where it's a more explicit explanation of it i would really appreaciated :D
#575 lael Sep 03, 2008 1:25:58	I would take it as written. So yes you would be able to take the form with 12 HD. Anyone else got any good ideas for minor magic items for druids?
#576 direfrostwolf Sep 11, 2008 22:46:20	Hi sorry but could anyone tell me where I can find the mouthpick weapoms please? especificly on which page? Thanks in advance for your help.:D
#577 pithica Sep 12, 2008 8:46:55	Lords of Madness p. 46
#578 snorkasaurous Sep 27, 2008 19:43:36	Is this the most up-to-date 3rd edition Druid Handbook? Looks like the OP has abandoned it some time ago. Just wondering . . .
#579 roku Sep 27, 2008 21:26:10	At level 5, the basic lion is a much better grappler than the crocodile (+13 grapple at 5). It's also a wayy better pouncer than the leopard. My standard choice for a core form at 5.
#580 cryptictravler Sep 29, 2008 17:08:40	The lion is Large and you cannot take a large form until level 8.
#581 deckinhand Oct 30, 2008 7:47:30	Is this the most up-to-date 3rd edition Druid Handbook? Looks like the OP has abandoned it some time ago. Just wondering . . . This is the most comprehensive recent one, but, more recently, you can also find the Quickstart Druid page at http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1024748 Deckinhand
#582 cannibalsmith Oct 30, 2008 8:05:11	There's also my attempt at a Druid handbook. It has a comprehensive items section and some other extra stuff that this handbook doesn't.
#583 krosangardener Dec 15, 2008 1:27:04	Under Wild Shape feats, how about Serpent's Venom? If you have time to prep it, then cast venomfire... Smilodon pounce attack from hiding plus venomfire? Ouchie.
#584 cannibalsmith Dec 15, 2008 2:24:47	Venomfire is just too powerful. Now, Serpent's Venom doesn't have duration listed. And the errata for Complete Divine doesn't amend that. I wonder, how long does it have to be to be worthwhile?
#585 rpalmier82 Dec 15, 2008 8:18:36	Does anyone know if there is a new AC based form list out to go along with the con errata? I've done some digging and haven't found anything yet. If not I'll start digging though MMs and posting good ones up. Was just wondering if anyone knew offhand, though.
#586 dannar Dec 17, 2008 7:38:46	I didn't realize that a Mounted Combat Druid with a Barding Animal Companion could be so ridiculous... This was me being conservative, trying to stick mainly to core/complete series building a druid focused on wild shape/combat with an animal companion The only feats outside of core/complete are the Tunnel Fighter and Tunnel Rider. Everything else is from Core/Complete Series. Basic Idea is riding around on the mount. Wake up in the morning and cast Superior Resistance (Sharing with the companion) and Greater Magic Fang (Claws, Sharing with companion). Also (specific to the campaign I'm in) extended spider climb (Sharing with companion). So that the mount can climb around on the walls and the spiderwebs of the Underdark (City of the Spider Queen Campaign setting) Combat: round 1, cast Bite of the Werebear, sharing with companion, direct mount to pounce nearest enemy, attempt to grapple, and rake round 2, Cast either a spell to overcome the damage reduction of your foes or a spell to increase toughness of your mount and yourself (Align Fang, Silvered Claws, Stoneskin) Mount gets another full attack (and rakes if grappling) round 3, cast either a healing spell/buff (if 1st foe is dead) or full attack. Direct mount to pounce next closest foe (if 1st foe is dead) or full attack. This makes a Druid riding an Animal Companion a more effective/vicious fighter than most frontline fighters because of the combined fighting ability of the Animal Companion and the spellcasting of the druid sharing spells with the Animal Companion. If the combat calls for it, the Druid can dismount, Wild Shape into A Dire Bear, and gang up on Enemy combatants after the 2nd/3rd round of combat. Having identical Dexterity Bonuses and initiative means that they go at the same time and maintain the 5ft limitation on shared spells. Human Druid 12 Human Druid 12; CR 12, LA +0, ECL 12 Medium Human (Human) Alignment: Neutral Good Human Form HP 12d8+42 102 hp Init +2; Spd 30 ft/x4; AC 18 (10, +2 dex, +6 Armor) Touch AC 12, Flat-Footed AC 16; Base Attack / Grapple: +9/+10 Abilities (Human Form) Strength 12 (+1) Dexterity 14 (+2) Constitution 16 (+3) Intelligence 14 (+2) Wisdom 23 (+6) Charisma 12 (+1)
#587 krosangardener Dec 20, 2008 12:16:47	Now, Serpent's Venom doesn't have duration listed. And the errata for Complete Divine doesn't amend that. I wonder, how long does it have to be to be worthwhile? Serpent's Venom has a duration of 1 minute. It's only listed in the feat table; kind of annoying, probably an error that was never fixed. It seems like there are some interesting benefits to consider when comparing it to the Poison spell. I'll use a level 15 druid for comparison, just for kicks: Poison *requires only a touch attack *deals d10 con damage + 1d10 a minute later *uses Wisdom modifier for Save DC, which would be... 22-27 @ level 15, depending on what level periapt of wisdom you have and what method you used to roll for stats (Elite array, point buy, or good'ol rolling); so a modifier of +6 -> +8 *can only be used once (I think?), making it basically an attack spell; against a level 15 opponent, it'll therefore deal an average of 5.5 con damage, which would result in a 2.75 modifier loss, or 41.25 damage on average Serpent's Venom *Gives you a bite attack if you don't have one, but it's at a -5 penalty unless you have multi-attack. Not sure if it would reliably hit without multi-attack *deals 1d6 con damage *Uses your constitution modifier as the save DC. That'd be +7 in Dire Tortoise or Saguaro Sentinel form, which seem like they'd be the ideal forms to use this in, considering it has the most utility in a fight that'll last a while and those are both strong defensive forms *lasts 1 minute, or 10 rounds, so it could theoretically be used 10 times in an ideal situation *for the sake of calculating damage, I'll assume the character already has a primary bite attack. 1d6 con damage per round means 3.5 on average, which would decrease their modifier by 1.75, or give you 26.25 damage per round against a level 15 opponent (assuming you hit) In other words, Serpent's Venom requires 3 rounds to be better than the poison spell: 1 to activate it, then 2 to attack. That is, of course, assuming that you hit in both situations. If you've got the drop on your opponent, on the other hand, and you have time to activate serpent's venom AND venomfire (assuming venomfire isn't banned by the DM), then you've got a difference of 15d6+11.25 damage over 2 rounds... or 30d6(105)+37.5 damage over 3 rounds. Which seems a little nuts. But then again, when Venomfire is brought into the example, everything is pretty nuts. So not to sound like a broken record, but it seems to me like the feat is best when you are sneaking up on your opponents. Which is advantageous for people like me who like doing silly things like dipping a couple levels into swordsage/monk/rogue and taking the able learner feat to make hide and move silently class abilities, then using forestfold and smilodon form to be nigh-unseeable and sneaking up on enemies with a rod of silent spell, buffing, then attacking.
#588 dannar Dec 20, 2008 23:56:15	Is there an optimized list of animal companions for Core/Complete Series only? That would be really convenient... :-)
#589 eldariel Dec 21, 2008 3:57:42	There's the list of optimal animal companions for each level. Just pick the Core-listed ones; Completes don't really come with new creatures and the listing defines whether the animal is core or splat. Solid list would be e.g. 1. Riding Dog 4. Crocodile (or just keep using Riding Dog, or pick something large like Ape) 7. Brown Bear/Giant Crocodile 10. Brown Bear/Polar Bear/Dire Lion (the options on this level are a tad mediocre) 13. Dire Bear 16. Dire Tiger/Tyrannosaurus And it's generally always worth trading up since the level-up bonuses tend to be one HD lower than just a new AC. Don't forget to equip and buff your animal companion.
#590 Endarire Jan 05, 2009 20:37:00	I request you at least add a link to my Greenbound SNA Summonling List.
#591 shriekingdrake Jan 05, 2009 22:15:27	I request you at least add a link to my Greenbound SNA Summonling List. Your work is great, but A Man in Black has not posted here in some time, I believe. Don't hold your breath. But at least, you've added it.
#592 pithica Jan 06, 2009 7:23:31	Is there an optimized list of animal companions for Core/Complete Series only? That would be really convenient... :-) That I know of, there's nothing in completes. A couple of the 'Races of' have animals that can be used, my personal favorite being the Dire Eagle from Races of Stone. Likewise, there are, I believe, some in the MM2-5's, and a few in the non-setting 'type' books (Sandstorm, etc), and a couple in the settings books. At one point, I went through and did a list of all of them (or so I thought), to compare their final stats @20, but apparently, I snipped it down to my favorites in a handful of categories. I didn't do any of the dinosaurs (as they aren't allowed in any of the campaign's I've played), and apparently, I either didn't include the animals in non-core or snipped them out. The only one in my list not from core is the Dire Eagle... In case you want it, with stats for each @20 here it is... Mounts: Mob: Riding Dog Level: 1 Abilities @20: STR-22 DEX-22 CON-16 INT-2 WIS-12 CHA-6 BAB/Grapple: +10/16 Natural Armor Bonus: +16 Hit Dice: 14 Feats (7): Alertness (1), Track (B), Multiattack (B) Movement Rates: 40ft Attacks: Bite (1d6) Specials: Low-light Vision, Scent, Rideable (small, or growth), +4 Racial Jump/Survival, Trip attack, Link, Share Spells, Imp Evasion, Devotion, 7 Bonus Tricks Mob: Dire Wolf Level: -6 Abilities @20: STR-30 DEX-20 CON-17 INT-2 WIS-12 CHA-10 BAB/Grapple: +10/24 Natural Armor Bonus: +11 Hit Dice: 14 Feats (7): Alertness, Run, Track (B), Weapon Focus (bite), Multiattack (B) Movement Rates: 50ft Attacks: Bite (1d8) Specials: Trip, Low-light Vision, Scent, Rideable (medium with trick), +2 Racial Hide, Listen, Move Silently, and Spot, +4 Racial Survival, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, 5 Bonus Tricks Mob: Heavy Horse Level: 1 Abilities @20: STR-22 DEX-21 CON-16 INT-2 WIS-12 CHA-6 BAB/Grapple: +11/21 Natural Armor Bonus: +15 Hit Dice: 15 Feats (7): Endurance (1), Run (3), Multiattack (B) Movement Rates: 50ft Attacks: 2 Hooves (1d6) Specials: Low-light vision, Scent, Rideable (medium), Link, Share Spells, Imp Evasion, Devotion, 7 Bonus Tricks Mob: Rhino Level: -6 Abilities @20: STR-30 DEX-14 CON-22 INT-2 WIS-14 CHA-2 BAB/Grapple: +16/30 Natural Armor Bonus: +15 Hit Dice: 16 Feats (7): Alertness, Endurance, Improved Natural Attack (gore), Multiattack (b) Movement Rates: 30ft Attacks: Gore (2d6) Specials: Powerful Charge (4d6), Low-light Vision, Rideable (medium with trick), Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, 5 Bonus Tricks Poisoners: Mob: Sea Snake (Medium) Level: 1 Abilities @20: STR-14 DEX-24 CON-12 INT-2 WIS-12 CHA-2 BAB/Grapple: +10/12 Natural Armor Bonus: +15 Hit Dice: 14 Feats (6): Weapon Finesse (1), Multiattack (B) Movement Rates: 20ft, climb 20ft, Swim 20ft Attacks: Bite (1d4) Specials: Scent, Poison (DC14), Hold Breath, +8 Racial Climb/Swim, Link, Share Spells, Imp Evasion, Devotion, 7 Bonus Tricks Mob: Huge Sea Snake Level: -6 Abilities @20: STR-20 DEX-20 CON-14 INT-1 WIS-12 CHA-2 BAB/Grapple: +10/23 Natural Armor Bonus: +13 Hit Dice: 14 Feats (6): Improved Init, Run, Weapon Focus (bite), Multiattack (B) Movement Rates: 20ft, climb 20ft, swim 20ft Attacks: Bite (1d6) Specials: Poison (DC18), Scent, 10ft Reach, Hold Breath, +8 Racial Climb/Swim, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, 5 Bonus Tricks Grapplers: Mob: Ape Level: -3 Abilities @20: STR-27 DEX-20 CON-14 INT2- WIS-12 CHA-8 BAB/Grapple: +10/22 Natural Armor Bonus: +13 Hit Dice: 14 Feats (6): Alertness (1), Improved Toughness (3), Multiattack (B) Movement Rates: 30ft, Climb 30ft Attacks: 2 Claws (1d6), Bite (1d6) Specials: Low-light vision, Scent, Rideable (medium, with trick), +8 Racial Climb, 10ft Reach, Link, Share Spells, Imp Evasion, Devotion, 6 Bonus Tricks Mob: Brown Bear Level: -6 Abilities @20: STR-32 DEX-18 CON-19 INT-2 WIS-12 CHA-6 BAB/Grapple: +10/25 Natural Armor Bonus: +13 Hit Dice: 14 Feats (6): Endurance (1), Run (3), Track (6), Multiattack (B) Movement Rates: 40ft Attacks: 2claws (1d8), Bite (2d6), Specials: Improved Grab, Low-light Vision, Scent, +4 Racial Swim, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, 5 Bonus Tricks Mob: Dire Bear Level: -12 Abilities @20: STR-34 DEX-15 CON-19 INT-2 WIS-12 CHA-10 BAB/Grapple: +12/28 Natural Armor Bonus: +11 Hit Dice: 16 Feats (6): Alertness, Endurance, Run, Imp Toughness, Weapon Focus (claw) Movement Rates: 40ft Attacks: 2 Claws (2d4), Bite (2d8) Specials: Improved Grab, Low-light Vision, Scent, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, 3 Bonus Tricks Pouncers: Mob: Leapord Level: -3 Abilities @20: STR-22 DEX-25 CON-16 INT-2 WIS-12 CHA-6 BAB/Grapple: +9/15 Natural Armor Bonus: +11 Hit Dice: 13 Feats (6): Alertness (1), Weapon Finesse (3), Multiattack (B) Movement Rates: 40ft, Climb 20ft Attacks: Bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d6), 2 Rake (1d3) Specials: Imp Grab, Pounce, Rake, Low-light vision, Scent, +8 Racial Jump/Balance/Climb, +4 Racial Hide/Move Silently, Link, Share Spells, Imp Evasion, Devotion, 6 Bonus Tricks Mob: Tiger Level: -6 Abilities @20: STR-27 DEX-20 CON-18 INT-2 WIS-12 CHA-6 BAB/Grapple: +10/22 Natural Armor Bonus: +11 Hit Dice: 14 Feats (6): Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (Bite), Improved Natural Attack (Claw), Multiattack (B) Movement Rates: 40ft Attacks: 2 claws (1d8), Bite (2d6), 2 Rake (1d8) Specials: Imp Grab, Pounce, Rake, Low-light vision, Scent, +4 Racial Balance/Hide/Move Silently, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, 5 Bonus Tricks Mob: Dire Tiger Level: -15 Abilities @20: STR-28 DEX-16 CON-17 INT-2 WIS-12 CHA-10 BAB/Grapple: +13/26 Natural Armor Bonus: +8 Hit Dice: 18 Feats (7): Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (claw), Improved Natural Attack (bite), Run, Stealthy, Weapon Focus (Claw) Movement Rates: 40ft Attacks: 2 Claws (2d4), Bite (2d6), 2 Rake (2d4) Specials: Improved Grab, Pounce, Rake, Low-light Vision, Scent, +4 Racial Hide/Move Silently, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, 2 Bonus Tricks Fliers: Mob: Dire Eagle Level: -3 Abilities @20: STR-26 DEX-24 CON-18 INT-2 WIS-14 CHA-6 BAB/Grapple: +11/23 Natural Armor Bonus: +15 Hit Dice: 15 Feats (7): Alertness (1), Fly-by Attack (3), Multiattack (B) Movement Rates: 10ft, Fly 60ft (Avg) Attacks: 2 Talons (1d8), Bite (1d8) Specials: 10ft Reach, Low-light Vision, +8 Racial Spot, Rideable (medium), Link, Share Spells, Imp Evasion, Devotion, 6 Bonus Tricks Mob: Dire Bat Level: -3 Abilities @20: STR-22 DEX-28 CON-18 INT-2 WIS-14 CHA-6 BAB/Grapple: +10/20 Natural Armor Bonus: +15 Hit Dice: 14 Feats (6): Alertness (1), Stealthy (4), Multiattack (B), Movement Rates: 20ft, Fly 40ft (good) Attacks: Bite (1d8) Specials: Blindsense 40ft, +4 Racial Spot/Listen, Link, Share Spells, Imp Evasion, Devotion, 6 Bonus Tricks
#593 grifter730_dup Jan 25, 2009 14:18:08	Is there an updated list of useful equipments for druids?
#594 lael Feb 10, 2009 20:38:46	Question: Is there anything stopping a druid who takes a humanoid form such as an elemental shape or even an animal shape for that matter from putting on / using an item once in that form? So could they wear armour and gain the armour bonus, or weild a shield and gain the sheild bonus. Or indeed could they wear a ring that had an activation item. There doesn't seem anything that stops that from happening in the rules, but just seeing what everyones thoughts are. Only problems I see is the item would need to be big enough to fit the new shape, and then actually be able to put the weapons on. Thoughts?
#595 pithica Feb 11, 2009 8:23:49	Question: Is there anything stopping a druid who takes a humanoid form such as an elemental shape or even an animal shape for that matter from putting on / using an item once in that form? So could they wear armour and gain the armour bonus, or weild a shield and gain the sheild bonus. Or indeed could they wear a ring that had an activation item. There doesn't seem anything that stops that from happening in the rules, but just seeing what everyones thoughts are. Only problems I see is the item would need to be big enough to fit the new shape, and then actually be able to put the weapons on. Thoughts? By RAW various forms (other than humanoid) can wear various body slot items in various locations. There is absolutely nothing that prevents you from wildshaping then putting the items on. There is a list in the back of the MIC, and also here, of the slots an animal can potentially wear. Armor for non-humanoid creatures needs to be specially crafted for them and falls under 'barding' rules. For a medium creature, barding costs x2, I believe, and you'd need help putting it on (or add the 'called' property). Humanoid shaped creatures can technically wear any armor of the appropriate size. It's not uncommon for Druids to use Dire Ape form with their gear on in situations where Wildling Clasps are not allowed.
#596 lael Feb 16, 2009 22:31:36	Cool thanks for that.
#597 smrtac_dup Mar 22, 2009 9:23:10	First of all sorry for ressurecting the so,so dead topic back to the living - and yes i have to admit that i didn't read through 20 pages of post past handbook itself, but i was really amazed that i didn't saw Dragonhide (any medium or light armor) +1 wild in the list - yea its +4 total which comes out at 16k. Get your parties cleric to throw in a magic vestment on later levels and its a done deal For most forms even Dragonhide breastplate is a viable choise
#598 cannibalsmith Mar 22, 2009 9:50:27	Dragonhide armor has the side effect of making dragons hostile towards the wearer, which is a bad thing.
#599 smrtac_dup Mar 22, 2009 10:01:39	All tho it doesn't state it anywhere, its a good logic, but than again you could say its a dragonhide of a red dragon - that way Chromatic Dragons will attack you, but what is exactly new there ? lol And wearing a dragonhide armor of a red dragon i don't think any Metallic Dragon would find himself offended that you "slayed" Chromatic one
#600 pithica Mar 22, 2009 11:20:34	Dragonhide armor has the side effect of making dragons hostile towards the wearer, which is a bad thing. I can't find anywhere where that is listed in the rules. And while it seems somewhat logical on the surface, I think it's an oversimplification of a dragon's reactions. If you kill, for example, a White Dragon that's plaguing your village, no metallic dragon will ever care, in fact, they may even congratulate you. Heck, most green, black, blue, and/or red dragons probably aren't going to care, and even some other whites may have seen the particular dragon you killed as encroaching on their territory and good riddance. Some dragons will certainly read into the armor the implied threat of, "Hey, I killed this dragon, I can kill you." And some, especially Tiamat priests, who believe that dragons are inherently superior beings, may take exception to you showing some lack of superiority in their race by killing any one of them. But, even they may read it as a culling of the weakest of their brood, and therefore an improvement on the race as a whole. Some of them are going to laugh, heartily, at your implied threat. Heck, some of them may even welcome the extra treasure your little advertisement occassionally brings to their hordes in the form of hapless and witless adventurers coming to 'slay the dragon' long before they are ready. Dragons are very complex creatures. They are much like humans stretched out onto a very large and very long scale. They want very human things and they think very much like human beings would likely do, if they were all giant (super)geniuses with thousands of years to kill. It's very very hard, therefore, to distill their reactions to something as insignificant as one other dragon death, even murder. Just as not every human would react the same to seeing a human skull on the end of someone's staff, so too are there no guarantees of getting the same reaction from every dragon to someone walking around in the skin of a fallen cousin.
#601 cannibalsmith Mar 22, 2009 13:08:48	Disclaimer: It all depends on the DM. I'm just drawing an analogy that dragonhide is to dragons what human skin is to humans. I'd be repulsed by someone wearing a human skin jacket even if I disliked that ethnicity.
#602 pithica Mar 22, 2009 15:44:52	Disclaimer: It all depends on the DM. I'm just drawing an analogy that dragonhide is to dragons what human skin is to humans. I'd be repulsed by someone wearing a human skin jacket even if I disliked that ethnicity. Not quite. Dragons are all apex predators that directly compete with one another, on a one on one basis, for survival and resources. They have different religions and different positions within that religion that may or may not affect their perceptions of one another. They also have very very long lifespans, and views skewed to those of people living within a single century. Modern humans, except in the poorest or most religiously fervent areas of the world, are not living under any of those conditions. In many cultures, throughout the world and throughout history, it was not only acceptable to adorn yourself with the body parts, et cetera, of the tribes/cultures/nations you warred with, it was revered and honored as the way to do war in general. Gold Dragons and Red Dragons look at each other as if they were an affront to the universe. They don't just 'dislike' them, they want them destroyed so utterly that the rest of the universe forgets they ever existed. They are fighting a war on racial, alignment, religious, and resource terms. Even dragons on the same side on one or more of those axis are still fighting each other, directly, on at least one of the others (resources). It is, again, an oversimplification to assume that they're all going to react to seeing someone in dragon skin as you would in your current situation to seeing someone in human skin.
#603 snorkasaurous May 10, 2009 21:44:39
#604 wraithstrike Sep 21, 2009 0:29:23	I am about to steal uh I mean borrow information from this guide to try to make a pathfinder druid guide. I do not have a long attention span, but I will try to stay on it.
#605 marci512 Jan 27, 2010 16:32:31	I have a question: in the first page of this topic it is written that with the Initiate of Nature feat the druid can command 2 HD of animals per class level. But the feat allows the druid to turn animals like an evil cleric turns the undead, and in the player's handbook 3.5 it is written that an evil cleric can only command 1 HD of animals per class level. Is there something I'm not considering? Thank you (and sorry again for my bad english )
#606 slammzero Feb 18, 2010 6:18:29	These are the forms you're going to want to trade up to. In general, a plant form is better than an animal form when all other things are equal, because of the pile of immunities that come with plant form. I'm sorry, I don't get it. I thought, you don't get immunities with wild shape? or am i missing something? greez
#607 thejake Mar 13, 2010 18:46:56	I don't know why the Volodni race from Unapproachable East (page 15) weren't mentioned?!? They're awesome - immunity to critical hits, stun (treated as plant) and they get they get  +2 CON, +2 WIS (albeit with -2 INT, -2 CHA and +2 LA. But those benefits all carry over when they shapeshift. Throw in the mix Vow of Poverty and you're talking very powerful at relatively low levels even with +2LA. Alternatively, Grey Orcs (same book p.16) also work: LA +1+2 STR, +2WIS -2 INT, -2 CHA. - J.
#608 gaeldor Apr 21, 2013 22:52:09	preserving ancient knowledge