Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rocket45 May 20, 2009 10:11:31	Hey I'm making a new druid, i always just used the core books but now I am expanding to try and use all of the 3.5 books/abilities and I had some questions. I am planning on going Druid 5/Planar Shepherd 10, so my question is how much will i really miss plant/elemental forms?. I know i can use enhance wild shape(x2) to turn into a plant and gain all their (ex) abilities but that seems rather expensive. And ive also heard that elemental forms are cool, but dont match up the animal forms you can assume at that level. Is spontaneous healer(CD) worth it? When I first saw it I really liked it considering how many slots this one feat would free up, but I dont see this very often in druid builds. Is assume supernatural ability worth it? I thought it might considering I can turn into magical beasts being a planar shepherd. Any way I can get around the good requirements of exalted wild shape? I dont have a problem with doing good deeds, its just my party is all of a non-good alignment, and trying to always do good is likely to get me killed by my teammates. I was wondering if anyone had found a loophole or something. TLDR: how much will i really miss plant/elemental forms?(due to being a planar shepherd) Is spontaneous healer(CD) worth it? Is assume supernatural ability worth it? Any way I can get around the good requirements of exalted wild shape?
#2 geekmasterflash May 20, 2009 10:31:18	First question: Not at all, Planar Shepard is broken to all hell. Who cares about Plants or Elementals when you can be literally anything from the plane chosen? Second question: No, not at all. Healing can be taken care of with a few spells here or there or the proper use of items. Third Question: Yes, very much so. Final Question: Stay away from exalted feats, aside from Vow of Poverty since Druids tend to be light on equipment anyway.
#3 rocket45 May 20, 2009 11:29:42	As far as the plant wildshaping goes, I know i can turn into things from my chosen plane, but the magical beasts seem subpar considering I cant get any of their supernatural or spell like abilities. And the elementals and outsiders I dont get until later and seem to have high HD. What I'm asking is, is wildshaping(plant) an important part of druid wildshaping, or are the plant forms for flavor purposes mainly and can be replaced by just as good animal forms?
#4 sofawall May 20, 2009 11:38:36	Heh heh... 9th level you get all the spell-like, supernatural and extraordinary abilities of what you turn into. It's what makes Planar Shepherd so ridiculously broken. Turn into an efreet, get free infinite wishes.
#5 rocket45 May 20, 2009 11:44:27	Well I didnt plan on trying to break the game. I wanted to be stronger than a normal druid, but not infinite wishes. I was going to do the dream plane for the time displacement. By the way, where can I find all the creatures native to the dream plane(Dal Quor)?
#6 phaedrusxy May 20, 2009 11:55:48	Well I didnt plan on trying to break the game. I wanted to be stronger than a normal druid That's pretty much a contradiction. ;) I was going to do the dream plane for the time displacement. By the way, where can I find all the creatures native to the dream plane(Dal Quor)? So infinite wishes break the game, but getting 10 actions to everyone else's 1 doesn't? That's where you draw the line? :P
#7 rocket45 May 20, 2009 12:03:34	That's pretty much a contradiction. ;) So infinite wishes break the game, but getting 10 actions to everyone else's 1 doesn't? That's where you draw the line? :P Haha, well truth be told some unfortunate circumstances let to my death by the hands of my own party. I want to have some sweet new abilities from being a shepherd, and then if confrontation comes up again, a trump card that will allow me to take my sweet revenge :D
#8 pithica May 20, 2009 12:44:30	1. I don't think you'll miss them too much. You'll get the elemental forms later, anyway, and depending on your plane choice, some of the plants may be there as well. (It's not like there aren't plants on the planes. Well, most (okay some) of them.) 2. I happen to like spontaneous healer, but only if your starting from very early on. I never mem healing spells, and rely on wands of LV/Healing belts, SNA, and SM type tricks usually for all the parties healing. I also like using Magic of the Land, if possible, to let my buffs do healing as well. However, until I have Heal (the only healing spell I ever actually mem) and Last Breath, there are (rare) occasions where small incremental heals or fast healing just won't save someone's life and I need a cure serious (or whatever my highest heal is) right now on this round to save someone. In those situations (which may or may not come up all that often for you), it is worth it. YMMV and you'll have to figure out how often they'll come up for you to decide, but, really what else are you spending your feats on? 3. If you can get away with it. Yes. 4. Not without DM approval. I personally don't think it's worth trying though. If I had to pick a Wild Shape feat to extend my repertoire, I'd rather have Draconic Wildshape from Draconomicon, as that gives a LOT of forms you can't otherwise get, and their Su's for free.
#9 geekmasterflash May 20, 2009 19:25:01	As far as the plant wildshaping goes, I know i can turn into things from my chosen plane, but the magical beasts seem subpar considering I cant get any of their supernatural or spell like abilities. And the elementals and outsiders I dont get until later and seem to have high HD. What I'm asking is, is wildshaping(plant) an important part of druid wildshaping, or are the plant forms for flavor purposes mainly and can be replaced by just as good animal forms? Plants can be ridiculously good. In the Monster Manual 3 there are two plants in particular which can make enemies drop a brick. The Night-twist and the Dread Blossom Swarm. The first one because it is a Treant on crack, and the second because anyone who has played a sufficiently high level Warlock can tell you how devastatingly awesome swarm attacks can be. And now for the real kicker: Both of these monsters are extraplaner, meaning even if you do not get plant shape because of Planar Shepard chances are you can still figure out a way to get them. Thus, even more reason that Planar Shepard is broken.
#10 dandu May 20, 2009 19:28:37	If you really want something more balanced (don't do it) you can try Master of Many Forms.
#11 dr_rocktopus May 20, 2009 19:37:51	Final Question: Stay away from exalted feats, aside from Vow of Poverty since Druids tend to be light on equipment anyway. Exalted Wildshape is actually insanely good. Good enough that it generally gets banned or reworded. Life as a blink dog is a good life. Now, I suggest living as a blink dog, taking the aggressive trait, and purchasing actual physical blinders. When the GM questions it, bite him. ;) More seriously, I'd recommend aberrant wildshape because of my god, why why why?!
#12 geekmasterflash May 20, 2009 19:47:21	Exalted Wildshape is actually insanely good. Good enough that it generally gets banned or reworded. Life as a blink dog is a good life. Now, I suggest living as a blink dog, taking the aggressive trait, and purchasing actual physical blinders. When the GM questions it, bite him. ;) More seriously, I'd recommend aberrant wildshape because of my god, why why why?! I can't say that Blink Dogs are what makes Exalted Wildshape, I would be more inclined to say Unicorns do. Blink Dogs are awesome for lower to mid levels. However, I tend to see the feat get rule 0'd faster than someone asking to play PunPun. Aberrant wildshape just hurts my brain thematically. Doesn't it say very specifically in the Druid entry that they are opposed to aberrations?
#13 dr_rocktopus May 20, 2009 19:54:41	"Become what you fight if you hope to understand them."
#14 jgumbyrx May 20, 2009 20:13:51	how much will i really miss plant/elemental forms?(due to being a planar shepherd) Is spontaneous healer(CD) worth it? Is assume supernatural ability worth it? Any way I can get around the good requirements of exalted wild shape? 1) this has already been completely covered 2) it depends on your primary role in the party. if the party already has a heal-bot, then it's not really worth it (that's what SNA 4+ is for). if you will be the only healer, then I feel that it will be very well worth it -- while you're at, why not pick-up augment healing and magic of the land. 3) even better with Improved ASA 4) um, you might want to read and re-read the Introduction and Chapter 1 of BoED -- and then read it again (then see if you still want to ask that).
#15 rocket45 May 21, 2009 9:59:02	3) even better with Improved ASA 4) um, you might want to read and re-read the Introduction and Chapter 1 of BoED -- and then read it again (then see if you still want to ask that). What are good choices/combinations for Improved ASA? It's not that I dont understand the exalted feat requirements, its that my party is primarily evil and I doubt they will support my kindheartedness. I was just looking for some exception or loophole. And I'd still like to find some comprehensive list of the planes,plane traits, and associated creatures.
#16 pithica May 21, 2009 10:22:11	http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=709233 That's the first place to look. It has all the eberronian planes and their traits along with at least some of the monsters available.
#17 jgumbyrx May 21, 2009 10:28:59	What are good choices/combinations for Improved ASA? It's not that I dont understand the exalted feat requirements, its that my party is primarily evil and I doubt they will support my kindheartedness. I was just looking for some exception or loophole. And I'd still like to find some comprehensive list of the planes,plane traits, and associated creatures. have you looked at the Planar Shepherd Handbook?
#18 rocket45 May 21, 2009 10:42:37	have you looked at the Planar Shepherd Handbook? Where can I find info on the Quori?
#19 jgumbyrx May 21, 2009 19:43:38	Where can I find info on the Quori? They are from Dal Quor (dream realm) Quori is actually a sub-type of outsider (like Baatezu or Tanar'ri, for example). Eberron Campaign Setting (pg 296-297) and Magic of Eberron (pg 146-149) is where they can be found.
#20 rocket45 Jun 01, 2009 9:20:49	so there are only 3 quori I can pick from if I pick Dal' Quor?
#21 risner Jun 01, 2009 9:43:05	Expect your DM to make two house rules. 1) A PC (or NPC doing it for the benefit of a PC) can't use a Su or Sp that has material or XP components without the PC supplying both. 2) Time traits are not a planar trait for the purpose of any effect that brings that trait to another plane (so no 10 actions per round.) These two rules make the Planar Shepard a balanced class, at least in my opinion as a DM with a ECL 15 Planar Shepard in my game. how much will i really miss plant/elemental forms?. Is spontaneous healer(CD) worth it? Is assume supernatural ability worth it? Any way I can get around the good requirements of exalted wild shape? You won't miss elemental forms (they are just the 4; Fire/Earth/Air/Water) You may miss some of the Plant forms (Warbound Impaler?) But they are generally less interesting than the forms you get (Magical Beasts/Outsiders.) SHealer isn't that much of a boon, in my opinion. Not worth a feat. ASA is pretty insane, For instance there are a few outsiders with Energy Drain as a Su. So drain a level no save on each successful attack. The difficulty of using ASA requires you to take IASA soon. You also need to select the ability when you take the feat (like select Energy Drain) so if you need more than just the one Su, you will need to take ASA multiple times. (Meaning you choose when you choose the feat, not the form.) The point of Exalted is to be "more good than paladin good", so there is no way to get around the "uber goodness" you need to be to be Exalted. No way mechanically and no role play way either. You are stuck with being more good than the party Paladin and if you stray away you lose the Exalted feats. Dread Blossom Swarm ... how devastatingly awesome swarm attacks can be. You can't shape into swarms, except for animal/vermin swarms with the CityScape alternate Druid class feature.