Dungeon Crashing: Determining Ability Scores? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dungeon Crashing: Determining Ability Scores?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Nox_Noctis
May 10, 2008 23:59:20 Race: Dragonborn Half-Minotaur Water Orc
Total Ability Adjustments: +16 Strength, -4 Dexterity, +10 Constitution, -4 Intelligence, -2 Charisma

Point Buy: 32
Starting ECL: 6 (I will be starting at ECL 5 with 0 LA and 12,000 experience instead of 15,000)

Applying these modifiers to the starting value of "8" for each ability score, I have:

24 Strength, 4 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 4 Intelligence, 8 Wisdom, 6 Charisma

Strength is my key statistic. It governs my attack, damage, and bull rush modifier.

Constitution doesn't need to be pumped any higher than default in all honesty but more cannot hurt. I could technically have it as high as 28 (+9 modifier) and have an extra 45 hit points at the start of the game.

I don't really know how often ability damage is used but I know Shivering Touch alone could incapacitate my character rather easily. Intelligence can be "dumped" I suppose (though having 1 skill point per level or what-have-you may end up sucking royally). Wisdom controls my Will save (our first big enemy will be an Aboleth [with "Enslave" = Dominate Person] and our DM was asking me what book Kupros was from. When I looked up the Kupros I found that it also had Dominate Person as an ability. I asked after finding it if that was the part where I should close my book and he said, "yes," so it's entirely possible we will encounter one. He was also a little delighted when I told him it had Dominate Person (which I saw before asking him that question). Other than that, Will is really only important for my perceptive skills. Charisma seems like a likely dump ability but again I'm not entirely sure how often ability damage arises.

Things Worth Noting:
I will also have an item of Continuous Enlarge Person (4,000 gold pieces). This gives me +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity, -1 Attack, -1 Armor Class. I will later get an item of Augmented Expansion (9 power points for heightened duration and the extra size category). This will cost me 27,000 gold pieces later and will grant me +4 Strength, -4 Dexterity, -2 attack, -2 Armor Class and make me Gargantuan size, enabling me to Bull Rush any creature (since the maximum is one size category above your own).

All of this said, how would you guys distribute the points? Thus far I have:
30 Strength, 10 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 12 Wisdom, 10 Charisma; but I can change these around as we have not yet begun.

Also, I do have +1 to any one ability score for level 4 (and the adjustments for Enlarge Person).
#2
reis
May 11, 2008 1:41:34 not sure but, you should definitely take frenzied berserker too

and yes, will saves are going to be hilarity
#3
wizu
May 11, 2008 4:56:21 Dump wisdom

Get steadfast determination from players handbook.
#4
bowensilverclaw1986
May 11, 2008 5:02:09
Dump wisdom

Get steadfast determination from players handbook.

You mean PH2 ;)

I'd maximize Constitution and pick up Steadfast Determination. Next up is Strength and then Dex. The rest you can do with as you see fit.
Maybe look into Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion) with a monstrous Con like that.

~Bowen
#5
runedk
May 11, 2008 5:34:16 I'll second the Constitution and Steadfast Determination (PH2, p. 83) route.

You could also go Stoneblessed (RoS p. 122) for another +2 con and count as dwarf. This gives you the posibility to go Deepwarden 2 (RoS p. 105) for Con to AC, which makes dexterity another dump stat (don't go ranged, compensate with initiative items).

After deepwarden 2 pick up the Mineral Warrior Template asap for another +4 con, +2 str -2 int/wis/cha and 8/adamantine damage reduction.

You could even go dwarf paragon for another +2 con, but that would be stretching it.

Probably pretty suboptimal (Stoneblessed sucks and dwarf paragon is not that good), but it nets you an extra +8 con for a possible maximum of 36 Constitution without items for a whooping 13/hp level and 13 AC.

... and then you enter Fist of the Forest (Complet Champion, p. 80) for another 13 AC

If you can fit it in, then you go Kensai 5 (Complete Warrior, p. 51) to make concentration cheks instead of Reflex saves.

//Rune
#6
bowensilverclaw1986
May 11, 2008 6:08:34
If you can fit it in, then you go Kensai 5 (Complete Warrior, p. 51) to make concentration cheks instead of Reflex saves.

Or go Warblade instead for Moment of Perfect Mind and other maneuver goodness

~Bowen
#7
runedk
May 11, 2008 6:53:09
Or go Warblade instead for Moment of Perfect Mind and other maneuver goodness

Is this in some errata somewhere? My Tome of Battle says that Moment of Perfect mind (ToB, p. 64) is only good for Will saves. These should be covered by steadfast determination, no?

//Rune
#8
bowensilverclaw1986
May 11, 2008 8:30:09
Is this in some errata somewhere? My Tome of Battle says that Moment of Perfect mind (ToB, p. 64) is only good for Will saves. These should be covered by steadfast determination, no?

//Rune

My bad :embarrass I meant Action Before Thought...

~Bowen
#9
bejik
May 11, 2008 13:31:58 Yeah there are good maneuvers in there to get Concentration to replace any save, Attack rolls, and damage rolls, at least if I am remembering correctly. You dumps some points into Concentration and all the sudden, with a massive con, you pass all your saves.
#10
bowensilverclaw1986
May 11, 2008 14:14:32 I'd get that level of Warblade, but I'd also get Endurance and Steadfast Determination in case you need to make multiple Will saves per combat and possibly even per round. That way you'll have more than just 1 succesful save...
And it doesn't hurt to not be able to fail Fortitude saves even on a 1 (unless the DC is really sick) as well...

~Bowen
#11
capt_smash
May 11, 2008 14:22:06 ok I ran a human with a golem arm or two as a dungeon crasher, and for that character, only two things mattered, strength and strength.(Dont ask why he had a STR score of 72... naked:shocked

If you can afford it, spend 20000 on a iron golem arm installation & net you self bonuses to strength & con plus Natural armor of +11 and a nice immunity to most spells. all for a paltry chance to go insane and kill your friends and becom an npc

On the up side it kinda makes will saves a non issue when you dont need to worry about any spell that allows SR
#12
bejik
May 11, 2008 14:26:01 Where is this arm of which you speak? I think it may be very useful for a character I'm working on for the next campaign I'm going to be playing in.
#13
bowensilverclaw1986
May 11, 2008 14:30:34 Half-Golems are in MM2. I don't believe they have a listed LA though... Maybe in the 3.5 update booklet?

~Bowen
#14
capt_smash
May 11, 2008 15:21:43 no La, MM2 was 3.5 They cost money(20000+ cost of installation) and have pretty steep negatives to int wis and cha, (we are talking in the neighborhood of -6 or so)

YOu ever have a bad day with your dice and then have a good day? like when my dm said roll percentage for which arm is the highest you can get and all books happened to be included...

and I rolled 00 and 0 and he jaw dropped and gave me the adamantine arm.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Nox_Noctis May 10, 2008 23:59:20	Race: Dragonborn Half-Minotaur Water Orc Total Ability Adjustments: +16 Strength, -4 Dexterity, +10 Constitution, -4 Intelligence, -2 Charisma Point Buy: 32 Starting ECL: 6 (I will be starting at ECL 5 with 0 LA and 12,000 experience instead of 15,000) Applying these modifiers to the starting value of "8" for each ability score, I have: 24 Strength, 4 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 4 Intelligence, 8 Wisdom, 6 Charisma Strength is my key statistic. It governs my attack, damage, and bull rush modifier. Constitution doesn't need to be pumped any higher than default in all honesty but more cannot hurt. I could technically have it as high as 28 (+9 modifier) and have an extra 45 hit points at the start of the game. I don't really know how often ability damage is used but I know Shivering Touch alone could incapacitate my character rather easily. Intelligence can be "dumped" I suppose (though having 1 skill point per level or what-have-you may end up sucking royally). Wisdom controls my Will save (our first big enemy will be an Aboleth [with "Enslave" = Dominate Person] and our DM was asking me what book Kupros was from. When I looked up the Kupros I found that it also had Dominate Person as an ability. I asked after finding it if that was the part where I should close my book and he said, "yes," so it's entirely possible we will encounter one. He was also a little delighted when I told him it had Dominate Person (which I saw before asking him that question). Other than that, Will is really only important for my perceptive skills. Charisma seems like a likely dump ability but again I'm not entirely sure how often ability damage arises. Things Worth Noting: I will also have an item of Continuous Enlarge Person (4,000 gold pieces). This gives me +2 Strength, -2 Dexterity, -1 Attack, -1 Armor Class. I will later get an item of Augmented Expansion (9 power points for heightened duration and the extra size category). This will cost me 27,000 gold pieces later and will grant me +4 Strength, -4 Dexterity, -2 attack, -2 Armor Class and make me Gargantuan size, enabling me to Bull Rush any creature (since the maximum is one size category above your own). All of this said, how would you guys distribute the points? Thus far I have: 30 Strength, 10 Dexterity, 18 Constitution, 10 Intelligence, 12 Wisdom, 10 Charisma; but I can change these around as we have not yet begun. Also, I do have +1 to any one ability score for level 4 (and the adjustments for Enlarge Person).
#2 reis May 11, 2008 1:41:34	not sure but, you should definitely take frenzied berserker too and yes, will saves are going to be hilarity
#3 wizu May 11, 2008 4:56:21	Dump wisdom Get steadfast determination from players handbook.
#4 bowensilverclaw1986 May 11, 2008 5:02:09	Dump wisdom Get steadfast determination from players handbook. You mean PH2 ;) I'd maximize Constitution and pick up Steadfast Determination. Next up is Strength and then Dex. The rest you can do with as you see fit. Maybe look into Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion) with a monstrous Con like that. ~Bowen
#5 runedk May 11, 2008 5:34:16	I'll second the Constitution and Steadfast Determination (PH2, p. 83) route. You could also go Stoneblessed (RoS p. 122) for another +2 con and count as dwarf. This gives you the posibility to go Deepwarden 2 (RoS p. 105) for Con to AC, which makes dexterity another dump stat (don't go ranged, compensate with initiative items). After deepwarden 2 pick up the Mineral Warrior Template asap for another +4 con, +2 str -2 int/wis/cha and 8/adamantine damage reduction. You could even go dwarf paragon for another +2 con, but that would be stretching it. Probably pretty suboptimal (Stoneblessed sucks and dwarf paragon is not that good), but it nets you an extra +8 con for a possible maximum of 36 Constitution without items for a whooping 13/hp level and 13 AC. ... and then you enter Fist of the Forest (Complet Champion, p. 80) for another 13 AC If you can fit it in, then you go Kensai 5 (Complete Warrior, p. 51) to make concentration cheks instead of Reflex saves. //Rune
#6 bowensilverclaw1986 May 11, 2008 6:08:34	If you can fit it in, then you go Kensai 5 (Complete Warrior, p. 51) to make concentration cheks instead of Reflex saves. Or go Warblade instead for Moment of Perfect Mind and other maneuver goodness ~Bowen
#7 runedk May 11, 2008 6:53:09	Or go Warblade instead for Moment of Perfect Mind and other maneuver goodness Is this in some errata somewhere? My Tome of Battle says that Moment of Perfect mind (ToB, p. 64) is only good for Will saves. These should be covered by steadfast determination, no? //Rune
#8 bowensilverclaw1986 May 11, 2008 8:30:09	Is this in some errata somewhere? My Tome of Battle says that Moment of Perfect mind (ToB, p. 64) is only good for Will saves. These should be covered by steadfast determination, no? //Rune My bad :embarrass I meant Action Before Thought... ~Bowen
#9 bejik May 11, 2008 13:31:58	Yeah there are good maneuvers in there to get Concentration to replace any save, Attack rolls, and damage rolls, at least if I am remembering correctly. You dumps some points into Concentration and all the sudden, with a massive con, you pass all your saves.
#10 bowensilverclaw1986 May 11, 2008 14:14:32	I'd get that level of Warblade, but I'd also get Endurance and Steadfast Determination in case you need to make multiple Will saves per combat and possibly even per round. That way you'll have more than just 1 succesful save... And it doesn't hurt to not be able to fail Fortitude saves even on a 1 (unless the DC is really sick) as well... ~Bowen
#11 capt_smash May 11, 2008 14:22:06	ok I ran a human with a golem arm or two as a dungeon crasher, and for that character, only two things mattered, strength and strength.(Dont ask why he had a STR score of 72... naked:shocked If you can afford it, spend 20000 on a iron golem arm installation & net you self bonuses to strength & con plus Natural armor of +11 and a nice immunity to most spells. all for a paltry chance to go insane and kill your friends and becom an npc On the up side it kinda makes will saves a non issue when you dont need to worry about any spell that allows SR
#12 bejik May 11, 2008 14:26:01	Where is this arm of which you speak? I think it may be very useful for a character I'm working on for the next campaign I'm going to be playing in.
#13 bowensilverclaw1986 May 11, 2008 14:30:34	Half-Golems are in MM2. I don't believe they have a listed LA though... Maybe in the 3.5 update booklet? ~Bowen
#14 capt_smash May 11, 2008 15:21:43	no La, MM2 was 3.5 They cost money(20000+ cost of installation) and have pretty steep negatives to int wis and cha, (we are talking in the neighborhood of -6 or so) YOu ever have a bad day with your dice and then have a good day? like when my dm said roll percentage for which arm is the highest you can get and all books happened to be included... and I rolled 00 and 0 and he jaw dropped and gave me the adamantine arm.