Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 selaphiel Apr 07, 2009 16:14:00	I have a level 12 duskblade in a campaign that is not heavily optimized at all, in fact I have the highest damage output in the party (I know strange right?). Anyway, I have taken the position of the tank with my long sword and shield for when I need AC, and spike chain tripping when I don't need the AC. Any ideas for a familiar that would help me to tank? Even a buff familiar would work. Casting shield on me would be cool, seeing as I can't cast it. I was thinking of going 13 level duskblade, but then I have no idea where to go... Retraining can be done, but I like what I got, so any ideas?
#2 feloniousela Apr 07, 2009 16:25:18	Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 1/Suel Arcanamach 1/Abjurant Champion +4/Spellsword 1/Suel Arcanamach +2... Kinda awesome. Otherwise just Duskblade 12/Abjurant Champion 5 works real well too.
#3 chibishuffle Apr 07, 2009 17:27:17	http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=875062 This thread should help its the familiars handbook 2007.
#4 selaphiel Apr 07, 2009 19:37:47	I think I am gonna get me a Hippogriff familiar and just max out my ride skill. What do yall think? Duskblade flying about channeling spells and whatnot through a reach weapon. What defensive measures could I make to ensure my valuable investment doesn't die easily?
#5 ninjarabbit Apr 07, 2009 20:02:09	May I ask what you do have, it's hard to figure out what we need to change if we don't know what the build is. My general advice is to make sure you have the power attack, knowledge devotion, and arcane strike feats. I'd also ditch the long sword and shield and go with the spiked chain full time, you should be able to afford an animated shield by now. You might want to look into exotic weapon master PrC, the flurry and trip weapon stunts are well worth it.
#6 selaphiel Apr 07, 2009 20:41:35	I want at least 13 level duskblade, as of now I have combat expertise, imp trip, exotic weapon proficiency (Chain), combat reflexes (for more trips, maybe I should drop?), and I am debating about getting armored mage feat or battle caster, whatever lets ya use one level higher of armor. That leaves 2 feats to toy with at this level since I am level 12 currently. Maybe obtain familiar then improved familiar to get a hippogriffon? Then mounted combat? I like flying mounts, gives me some nice maneuverability. Any ideas? Got godly stat rolls 18, 18, 17, 14, 14, 11. Str and con are highest with the 17 going to int. Then a 14 in wis and dex. Dumped cha. Any ideas?
#7 feloniousela Apr 07, 2009 22:16:25	Flying mounts are cool if your campaign supports them, if you play in a bunch of dungeons though it may not help much. Don't waste feats on casting in Armor, just buy mithril armor. You should already be able to cast in Mithril Full Plate at your level. As for feats...Improved Initiative is always good for battlefield control. Stand Still can be amazing. Versatile Spellcaster can let you use tons more high level spells. Arcane Strike and Knowledge Devotion are a given for Duskblades. Deft Opportunist if you really really wanna hit your AoOs. Make sure you are Large...all the time if the environment can hold you.
#8 selaphiel Apr 07, 2009 22:16:57	Also side note, is there anyway to make mounted combat feat (Ride check becomes mount's AC) more then once per round? I want a flying mount so I can't give em barding to up AC.
#9 selaphiel Apr 07, 2009 22:21:37	The DM doesn't use that many dungeons, more outdoor stuff then most campaigns I've been in, that isn't to say that he doesn't use dungeons, but there is a lot of big outdoor battles.
#10 selaphiel Apr 08, 2009 23:38:00	Other then the hippogryph familiar is there anyway to get a good flying mount? Maybe paladin levels to get some more defensive spells to complement my duskblade defensive abilities. Any ideas?
#11 pithica Apr 09, 2009 8:03:37	Algorondian Griffonrider gives you a bonded griffon mount that works like a paladins mount, but really it's not worth it. If you aren't optimized from the beginning to be a mounted character, and really focus on the mount, it's probably just going to die or get in your way. Even if you do optimize for it from the beginning, you have to face the fact that the mount will become the star of the story, and not your character. You need to get these 3 feats before you take anything else... Knowledge Devotion Power Attack Arcane Strike If you can get away with using Extra Spell to get a non-spelllist spell (this works RAW, but the FAQ says it doesn't, which is stupid), take it and get Wraithstrike. I also like to follow that up with Cleave and Great Cleave, but that's just me. You may also want to take either Robilar's Gambit or Karmic Strike (whichever one only has Combat Reflexes as a pre-req), to get extra attacks. If you can fit it in after all that, Law Devotion and Travel Devotion are both good choices. As can be Arcane Disciple, if you pick a good domain. Assuming you really really want to go Dusk 13, I'd follow up with... Dusk 13/Cloistered Cleric 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Spellsword 1 The level of Cloistered Cleric could give you all three Devotion feats for free, assuming your agnostic, worship an ideal, or pick the right church/god (I think Shaundakul/Ptah has all three, but I can't remember for sure). Alternatively, you could pick Oghma, and instead of Law Devo take the Pride domain, which has a really awesome domain power.
#12 selaphiel Apr 09, 2009 8:11:08	Thanks Pithica, I do think that the travel devotion helps with maneuverability, can arcane strike be used with arcane channel? And I don't know if I want to go power attack because I am kind of the tank of the party, and use combat expertise quite a bit. What book is cloistered cleric in?
#13 pithica Apr 09, 2009 8:29:58	Being the tank of the party is the best reason TO use power attack. PA + a two handed weapon get's you +2 damage for every +1 to hit you sacrifice. If, for example: you take Knowledge Devotion, which can give you up to +5 to hit and damage, take arcane strike, which gives you a +X to hit and +Xd4 to damage (where X is the level of the spell sacrificed), and take Wraithstrike; your melee attacks for the round will all be touch attacks (more likely to hit), and you can fairly safely sacrifice all the to hit bonuses (and still hit) for a total of +15+2X+Xd4 to damage. A 3rd level spell sacrificed would be +21+3d4(avg ~29) to EVERY ATTACK with that weapon that round, including those from combat reflexes/robilar's gambit. That's certainly not recordbreaking, but it's probably much better than your doing now. And, you'll have a lot more bonuses to hit that you probably won't need to sacrifice for damage on top of that. Not to mention that you'll be getting 1.5x strength for using a 2hander. Arcane Strike is a Free Action, and doesn't prevent you from using spells in a given round. It shouldn't interfere with Arcane channel or anything else (except that you lose the spellslot, so if that was your last slot from that level, you can't cast any more of that level spell). Cloistered Cleric is a variant Cleric in Unearthed Arcana/the SRD. Grants 2 domains + Knowledge and 6+int skills + cleric casting. It's a very solid dip for any melee character. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloisteredCleric
#14 Dictum_Mortuum Apr 09, 2009 8:35:59	Thanks Pithica, I do think that the travel devotion helps with maneuverability, can arcane strike be used with arcane channel? And I don't know if I want to go power attack because I am kind of the tank of the party, and use combat expertise quite a bit. What book is cloistered cleric in? There is no "tank" role in D&D.
#15 selaphiel Apr 09, 2009 10:36:07	Perhaps tank is the wrong word then the role I am doing in the party. I stand in the front with my spiked chain and make sure nothing gets past me to the squishy casters behind me. I wanted a mount to solve the problem with maneuverability so I could use my arcane channeling. I guess I can use my dimension hop quick cast and travel devotion for that.
#16 pithica Apr 09, 2009 11:58:54	'Tank' is a combat role for most typical DnD groups, it just typically goes by other names: BSF(Big stupid Fighter), Meatshield, Summoner, etc. There are four primary combat roles: BSF, Glass Cannon (damage dealer), Martyr (booster and/or healer), God (controller); and four primary non-combat roles: Face (diplomacy), Corpse (Scout), Muscle (waste of space), Batman (utility caster). You'll get arguments (valid ones), on which are necessary or unnecessary, and what their names should be. And there are lots of non-standard (for the role) classes can fill each role well.
#17 phaedrusxy Apr 09, 2009 12:04:44	Other then the hippogryph familiar is there anyway to get a good flying mount? Use Magic Device ranks + a wand of Animate Dead. Then go kill whatever you want to fly around on, and make it a zombie. :D (Or get the party cleric or wizard to animate one for you)
#18 selaphiel Apr 09, 2009 13:59:27	Use Magic Device ranks + a wand of Animate Dead. Then go kill whatever you want to fly around on, and make it a zombie. :D (Or get the party cleric or wizard to animate one for you) The party necro and myself have very different ideas of how the party should play, perhaps because he is chaotic good dread necro at level 12 who hasn't used animate dead yet because having undead follow you around isn't sexy. He prefers to summon the ****** ones from summon undead. Also I dunno if I said CHAOTIC GOOD NECROMANCER!!! My DM is very against catering to players, so if there are any flying creatures suitable to be a mount then we are gonna have to go out of our way to find it.
#19 pithica Apr 09, 2009 14:02:31	Just cast phantom steed if and when you need a mount. It's going to go faster than just about anything in any book, much less anything you can actually find and kill under a strict DM. EDIT: Scratch that...I was under the mistaken impression that ps was on the Dusk spell list...
#20 hijaxx Apr 09, 2009 14:06:31	chaotic good necromancer? your kidding. seriously. anyway you should get a diplomancer cohort and convince him to animate that steed for ya.
#21 selaphiel Apr 09, 2009 14:56:12	Was thinking of taking abjurant champion for some defensive abilities, anyway to add more abjuration magic to my spell list? Take a level of battle sorc or wizard? Cloistered cleric was mentioned, but how would that mesh with duskblade?
#22 Dictum_Mortuum Apr 09, 2009 17:23:28	Perhaps tank is the wrong word then the role I am doing in the party. I stand in the front with my spiked chain and make sure nothing gets past me to the squishy casters behind me. I wanted a mount to solve the problem with maneuverability so I could use my arcane channeling. I guess I can use my dimension hop quick cast and travel devotion for that. Usually when someone is "tanking" he forces enemies to attack him, while protecting his more fragile teammates. Thankfully, or unfortunately, depending on how you see it, you cannot force every enemy in D&D to do that. And smart enemies are going to hit where it hurts your party most. Thus the most optimized solution to protect your allies in the long run is to dispose your foes as quickly as possible.
#23 phaedrusxy Apr 09, 2009 18:08:17	Was thinking of taking abjurant champion for some defensive abilities, anyway to add more abjuration magic to my spell list? Take a level of battle sorc or wizard? Cloistered cleric was mentioned, but how would that mesh with duskblade? Take Arcane Disciple for a domain that has some good buffs in it, or dip into Contemplative for a couple of levels to get a domain.
#24 selaphiel Apr 10, 2009 1:21:31	If I go abjurant champion I want to be able to cast shield cause that is nice armor. Is there any way to get shield as my spell other then like a level of wizard? I would be using mithril breastplate after all... and shield has somatic components. I wonder if I could research a version to make it a 2nd level spell, or to make mage armor an abjuration spell through research?
#25 Dictum_Mortuum Apr 10, 2009 9:11:36	If I go abjurant champion I want to be able to cast shield cause that is nice armor. Is there any way to get shield as my spell other then like a level of wizard? I would be using mithril breastplate after all... and shield has somatic components. I wonder if I could research a version to make it a 2nd level spell, or to make mage armor an abjuration spell through research? Don't go abjurant champion. It is a common suggestion, but it is not an optimal choice for duskblades, because they lack the abjuration spells to back it up. Look the class features closely: Abjurant Armor: Worthless, no duskblade abjuration provides a bonus to AC. Extended Abjuration: Do you really need more duration for your protection from energy/resist energy spells? Swift Abjuration: The only class feature that is worth it, but guess what - duskblades already get sudden quicken uses per day, that works with any spell, not just abjurations. Arcane Boost: You already have arcane strike. Martial Arcanist: You already have full caster level. On the other hand, if you continue with duskblade levels (say duskblade 20 vs duskblade 15/abjurant champion 5) you get +2 spell power, +1 sudden quicken per day, you don't mess up your knowledges (with knowledge devotion and maxed knowledge that identifies the type of the campaign's theme monster is awesome for example) and saves are 12/6/12 instead of 10/6/13.
#26 selaphiel Apr 10, 2009 14:47:30	That's why I said I could take a level of wizard, have the shield spell, then research mage armor to make it abjuration instead of conjuration. I would need to find a way to make my wizard level high enough to make my shield and mage armor spells last longer then 1 min/hour because of just having wizard one... Edit: And if I get arcane boost from the anjuration champ class then I can free up a feat that arcane strike would take, sure you add more damage with arcane strike, but I can add AC or saving throw bonus with arcane boost.
#27 selaphiel Apr 12, 2009 22:40:30	I got it! Divine magician to get shield on my list, then take 5 levels of abjurant champ, that is a lot more AC, then I need 2 levels of something to finish off build. Any ideas?
#28 thespianus Apr 13, 2009 14:30:01	I got it! Divine magician to get shield on my list, then take 5 levels of abjurant champ, that is a lot more AC, then I need 2 levels of something to finish off build. Any ideas? "Divine Magician" is a Cleric ACF, isn't it? How does that help your Duskblade/Abjurant Champ? The "Shield" you get from Divine Magician is added to your Cleric spells, ie you cast them as divine spells, not arcane. But, yeah, I just read through the Abj. Champ class again, and RAW, there is nothing to prevent you from this stunt. However, I'd stomp it out as a DM, as the Abjurant Champion is clearly intended to boost an arcane caster, not a divine caster. (Then again, maybe I'd rather drop the arcane prerequisites on Abj Champ and make it available to casters of both arcane and divine alike)
#29 keithio Apr 13, 2009 14:44:09	My advice would be to grab "Thicket of Blades" stance from Tome of Battle, and other lockdown related goodies. Maybe Duskblade14/[Crusader or Warblade1]/JadePhoenixMage5, or just Duskblade13/Fighter4/x3 and just get it with feats.
#30 thespianus Apr 13, 2009 14:44:51	If you have two levels left at high levels, I could recommend two levels of Unseen Seer, also in Complete Mage. At level 1 you get Sneak Attack 1D6 and at level 2 you get to add one Divination spell from any spell list, from any class, to your spell list. I can recommend "Hunter's Eye", a level 2 Ranger spell, which gives you 1D6 of Sneak Attack / 3 levels for one round. So, at level 20 you can add 8D6 to your already impressively damage output whenever you flank an opponent.
#31 selaphiel Apr 13, 2009 17:42:33	I meant taking a level of cleric and taking divine magician and add shield to the list of cleric spells. Forgot to put this so my math is wrong and I have duskblade 13/cleric 1/Abjurant champ 5, leaves me one level... Maybe warblade?