Duskblade + Precocious Apprentice? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Duskblade + Precocious Apprentice?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
DLoFunk
May 04, 2008 14:45:09 Sorry if this has already been covered.

Now we've all seen the debates about whether the "Extra Spell" feat can give the Duskblade access to Wraithstrike due to it not being on the DB's spell list. But I just thought "Why not Precocious Apprentice?"

The only spell choice restriction on Precocious Apprentice is simply having access to the desired spells school. A 1st Level Duskblade has access to multiple Transmutation spells which just happens to be the school Wraithstrike is in. As I see it that restriction is covered.

This, to me, seems like an obviously better route to take since it A) gives you an extra spell slot you wouldn't normally have and B) you do it at 1st Level!!! Sure as heck beats having to wait until 9th level with extra spell.

This works right? I see nothing RAW or RAI to suggest otherwise.
#2
davethemagicweasel
May 04, 2008 16:05:38 "When you become able to cast 2nd-level spells, you lose the benefit described above but retain the extra 2nd-level spell slot which you can use to prepare or spontaneously case a spell of 2nd-level or lower as you normally would."

i.e. while you retain the extra spell slot, you don't retain the extra spell known. So you'd have Wraithstrike 1/day, until you were able to cast 2nd-level spells.

So, imho, by RAW it doesn't work.

Is the RAW stupid? Yes

Would some DMs overrule it? Probably
#3
risner
May 05, 2008 0:39:21
Now we've all seen the debates about whether the "Extra Spell" feat can give the Duskblade access to Wraithstrike due to it not being on the DB's spell list. But I just thought "Why not Precocious Apprentice?"

This works right? I see nothing RAW or RAI to suggest otherwise.

Unless the ability details what level the spell would be when converted from another class list or the ability details the spell can come from "any spell list" explicitly, then the ability can only provide spells already on your class spell list.

This works to limit the following to class list (and some to spells known):
Extra Spell
Expanded Spellbook (Master Specialist)
Precocious Apprentice
Spontaneous Divination
etc
#4
brainpiercing
May 05, 2008 2:18:22
Unless the ability details what level the spell would be when converted from another class list or the ability details the spell can come from "any spell list" explicitly, then the ability can only provide spells already on your class spell list.

This works to limit the following to class list (and some to spells known):
Extra Spell
Expanded Spellbook (Master Specialist)
Precocious Apprentice
Spontaneous Divination
etc

That's interpretational. Why does it need to list a spell level?

I'd agree that it was probably intended to be for class list spells, but then it just doesn't say, so it's purely a DM call.
#5
risner
May 05, 2008 12:47:11
That's interpretational. Why does it need to list a spell level?

I'd agree that it was probably intended to be for class list spells, but then it just doesn't say, so it's purely a DM call.

All abilities that migrate spells from another class list to your list have text that covers the spell level.

Your class description strictly prohibits you from casting spells not on your class list (with the exception of Sorcerer and their "unusual spells" line.) Even if you interpret (incorrectly) an ability that says "add one spell to your spells known" this doesn't resolve the prohibition from casting the spell in your class list.

They do this often (Wurm Wizard, Fiendblooded, Ultimate Magnus, domains, etc) and they always detail how to translate the spell level or explicitly say it is added to your class spell list and you can cast it normally.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 DLoFunk May 04, 2008 14:45:09	Sorry if this has already been covered. Now we've all seen the debates about whether the "Extra Spell" feat can give the Duskblade access to Wraithstrike due to it not being on the DB's spell list. But I just thought "Why not Precocious Apprentice?" The only spell choice restriction on Precocious Apprentice is simply having access to the desired spells school. A 1st Level Duskblade has access to multiple Transmutation spells which just happens to be the school Wraithstrike is in. As I see it that restriction is covered. This, to me, seems like an obviously better route to take since it A) gives you an extra spell slot you wouldn't normally have and B) you do it at 1st Level!!! Sure as heck beats having to wait until 9th level with extra spell. This works right? I see nothing RAW or RAI to suggest otherwise.
#2 davethemagicweasel May 04, 2008 16:05:38	"When you become able to cast 2nd-level spells, you lose the benefit described above but retain the extra 2nd-level spell slot which you can use to prepare or spontaneously case a spell of 2nd-level or lower as you normally would." i.e. while you retain the extra spell slot, you don't retain the extra spell known. So you'd have Wraithstrike 1/day, until you were able to cast 2nd-level spells. So, imho, by RAW it doesn't work. Is the RAW stupid? Yes Would some DMs overrule it? Probably
#3 risner May 05, 2008 0:39:21	Now we've all seen the debates about whether the "Extra Spell" feat can give the Duskblade access to Wraithstrike due to it not being on the DB's spell list. But I just thought "Why not Precocious Apprentice?" This works right? I see nothing RAW or RAI to suggest otherwise. Unless the ability details what level the spell would be when converted from another class list or the ability details the spell can come from "any spell list" explicitly, then the ability can only provide spells already on your class spell list. This works to limit the following to class list (and some to spells known): Extra Spell Expanded Spellbook (Master Specialist) Precocious Apprentice Spontaneous Divination etc
#4 brainpiercing May 05, 2008 2:18:22	Unless the ability details what level the spell would be when converted from another class list or the ability details the spell can come from "any spell list" explicitly, then the ability can only provide spells already on your class spell list. This works to limit the following to class list (and some to spells known): Extra Spell Expanded Spellbook (Master Specialist) Precocious Apprentice Spontaneous Divination etc That's interpretational. Why does it need to list a spell level? I'd agree that it was probably intended to be for class list spells, but then it just doesn't say, so it's purely a DM call.
#5 risner May 05, 2008 12:47:11	That's interpretational. Why does it need to list a spell level? I'd agree that it was probably intended to be for class list spells, but then it just doesn't say, so it's purely a DM call. All abilities that migrate spells from another class list to your list have text that covers the spell level. Your class description strictly prohibits you from casting spells not on your class list (with the exception of Sorcerer and their "unusual spells" line.) Even if you interpret (incorrectly) an ability that says "add one spell to your spells known" this doesn't resolve the prohibition from casting the spell in your class list. They do this often (Wurm Wizard, Fiendblooded, Ultimate Magnus, domains, etc) and they always detail how to translate the spell level or explicitly say it is added to your class spell list and you can cast it normally.