Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 alphabravo Feb 17, 2009 5:52:09	I need a dwarf fighter 4 for a core-only game at Sunday. For RP reasons, he should use a Warhammer
#2 rasmus_wagner Feb 17, 2009 6:34:29	I guess "Get used to the taste of suck" isn't the answer you're looking for? Anyways, 5 feats, core only, 5.400 GP... Max out your Search skill; Stonecunning gives auto-search in most dungeon environments. You might as well take Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization. Then, go with Improved Unarmed Strike to get Improved Grapple and Deflect Arrows. Or Rapid reload, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot to be useful at range as well (and be a Deep Dwarf - the MM is core, and 90' darkvision with ranged attacks beats 60' darkvision and melee attacks most days). Or Iron Will, Endurance, Diehard. Or just give up and play a fightin' Cleric instead. You'll outfight a Fighter. Being a fighters sucks; being a core-only fighter sucks even more.
#3 agahi_renem Feb 17, 2009 6:37:08	uh, dwarf fighter 4 with warhammer, and the power attack feat, and a high str..... Not trying to be a jerk, Its hard to Op a fighter with core only to be honest, especially with restrictions like you put forth. Maybe someone can make something killer for you, but thats all Ive got with hose confines.
#4 jameswilliamogle Feb 17, 2009 6:43:15	Sweet! 5 feats to work with, and planning for 7 regular + 11 bonus Fighter feats, then. Dwarven Fighter 4 - Str and Dex focused 1,b Weapon Focus: Warhammer, Power Attack 2b TWF 3 Cleave 4b WSpec: Warhammer for future: iTWF, gTWF, GWF, GWSpec, PBS, Far Shot, Quickdraw, 6 free (Imp Sunder, Imp Initiative, Imp Bull Rush, Combat Reflexes, Imp. Critical, Blindfight) Dual-weilding Warhammers of doom! You have to take a -3 on your attacks to dual-weild them, though... Its not that big of a hit at L12 or so but is pretty big at this level. You have -3 to hit on each hammer and d8+2 to damage on each hammer (ave 6.5 x 2 = 13). Now, comare w/ two-handed Power Attack with WSpec: you'd have -3 to hit, +8 to damage, on one attack, or d8+8 (ave 12.5). Plus, you get the extra coolness of dual-wielding warhammers :D. Now, getting .5 extra damage isn't worth it for such a feat investment... but check out what you can do with it in the future (below). It kind of depends on how far you want to go with the concept (it can get pretty interesting). Later, you'd get PBS and Far Shot, as well as the whole TWF and WSpec trees, and get Warhammers with the Throwing and Returning properties, so that you could mix up a full attack along with throwing (thus, you'd get your Full Attack much more often than normal) - ie, Dwarven Thrower ;). You end up getting 7 attacks per round on a full attack, and aren't limited to always having to be in melee for a full attack. Its pretty slick, I think (full disclosure: I have never played this sort of build before, mainly b/c I've never had to stick to just PHB and be a Fighter). Another one: Dwarven Fighter 4 - Totally Str focused 1,b Power Attack, Cleave 2b Dodge 3 Improved Overrun 4b Mobility for future: Imp Sunder, Imp Bull Rush, WF, WSpec, GWF, GWSpec, 7 free (Mounted Combat, Ride-by-Attack, Combat Reflexes, Spirited Charge, Spring Attack (b/c you have the other two), Leadership (for a really nice mount), Mounted Archery (if you get a Dwarven Thrower) or Imp Initiative (otherwise)). The idea here is simple, really. You use Overrun to knock down an opponent from movement, but when you do this you'll provoke due to movement and have +4 AC and +4 to the attempt (and +4 to defend if you fail). Make sure to get Enlarge Person cast on you before battle so that you can get +8 on each check. Otherwise, wield a Warhammer two-handed and take about a -2 to hit mod due to Power Attack. Potions of the Longstrider spell are worth the investment for the extra +10' movement, and later Haste or Boots of Speed make your movement quite awesome. You'll also be preventing AoOs on your spellcasters, since you'll be provoking with this strategy. And, guess what - Flying creatures are subject to being prone (it doesn't make a lot of sense, but nowhere does it say that Flying creatures are immune to it - many DMs treat it as being "stalled", which is still good) (see below for the FAQ on it). For the future, you should invest in Improved Bull Rush and Weapon Specialization, and totally move people around wherever you want them (remember that your allies get AoOs against the enemy you bull rush, as do you, but also remember you have +4 AC against those AoOs). Improved Sunder along with a Shatterspike can make you a weapon-sundering machine, too (and there's core spells to repair magic items, too, making this a viable option). FAQ on Tripping Aerial Creatures Being tripped makes you prone. Who can be tripped? Beholders? Gelatinous cubes? What effect does tripping have on these creatures? Can a prone character be tripped again? What about flying and swimming creatures? Many creatures have neither legs nor any relationship to the ground or gravity. How does tripping affect them? Anything using limbs for locomotion can be tripped. Things that don’t need limbs for locomotion can’t be tripped. You can’t trip a snake, a beholder, or a gelatinous cube. You won’t find this in the rules, but then it really doesn’t need to be in there—the rules can leave some things to the DM’s common sense. A creature flying with wings can be “tripped,” in which case the creature stalls (see Tactical Aerial Movement on page 20 of the DMG). You can’t make an incorporeal creature fall down. You also can’t trip a prone creature. Creatures can’t be tripped when they’re swimming (the water holds them up). Likewise, a burrowing creature is driving its body through a fairly solid medium that serves to hold it up.
#5 deedsy Feb 17, 2009 8:55:44	if it was me depend on what kind of fighter u wanna do, i would max str and con for max hp, feats i would take weapon focus, wpn specialisation, dodge, mbility, spring attack, pack up a full plate with a tower shield that will give you a good ca (10+1dex+8armor+4shield+1dodge)=24 ca or 28 vs giant without any magic item...not bad for a lvl 4
#6 carnivore Feb 17, 2009 11:29:01	interesting .... jameswilliamogle already gave some excellent ideas... what is the Point Buy? Core only .... try this: Dwarf Fighter 4 Attributes(assuming 32pt buy) 14 Str 16 Dex 18 Con(15+2racial +1 lvl) 14 Int 10 Wis 6 Cha(8 -2 racial) Feats: Weapon Focus(Warhammer) TWF Combat Expertise Imp Trip Weapon Specialize(Warhammer) Imp Unarmed Strike use in Melee with Both Hands.... Trip first(melee touch attack), then wack with hammer when enemy is on the ground(@+4 to hit) this should give you 2 attacks minimum... with 2 trips, and 2 more attacks :D
#7 erhnamdj Feb 17, 2009 13:48:15	I think you guys are looking at this wrong. What you want to do for core-only is make Charisma your highest stat, grab Skill Focus (UMD) and Magical Aptitude. Put as many ranks as you can into UMD.
#8 jameswilliamogle Feb 17, 2009 13:51:20	I think you guys are looking at this wrong. What you want to do for core-only is make Charisma your highest stat, grab Skill Focus (UMD) and Magical Aptitude. Put as many ranks as you can into UMD. I think that's a great strategy for people that come in and say "need a PHB-only strong character, but not a primary caster", but when the OP says Dwarf+Warhammer+PHB only we can't really do that. Even if we could, its not going to be awesome at L4.
#9 erhnamdj Feb 17, 2009 14:15:02	Can this character be awesome at level four? No, so you do what you can. I think a fourth level character can afford a few wands. That's worth the cost of two feats and some skill points. 1 Skill Focus (UMD) 2 Weapon Focus: warhammer 3 Magical Aptitude 4 Weapon Specialization: warhammer
#10 jameswilliamogle Feb 17, 2009 14:40:37	Can this character be awesome at level four? No, so you do what you can. I think a fourth level character can afford a few wands. That's worth the cost of two feats and some skill points. 1 Skill Focus (UMD) 2 Weapon Focus: warhammer 3 Magical Aptitude 4 Weapon Specialization: warhammer That's nice, don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to say anything bad. I guess its up to the OP what he wants. Just to crunch the numbers: UMD = 4 (max ranks in UMD cc) + 3 (Skill Focus) + 2 (Magical Aptitude) + 3 (starting w/ an 18 Cha as a dwarf) = 12, or 65% chance to make a wand work. Each wand usage from a 1st level wand will cost (on average) 1/238th of his gold; each from a 2nd level wand will cost him 1/39th of his gold. So, using 1st level wand is OK with this, but unless his DM lets him buy partially charged wands 2nd level is completely out (as its way more than he can spend, realistically). As a long-term strategy, its not bad at all to focus on UMD with Wands and Staves, though, I agree, but I'm not sure if its going to work for the OP (we have NO info on his party, nor have we gotten any indication that he's even reading). At 20th, that UMD could be 26 with no (further) investment in Cha other than non-tome items (+6 cha items and circlet of persuasion), which is enough to cast L4 scrolls w/o issue. He could always lay the schmack down after using some awesome buffs or debuffs... What would be the best wands? I'm thinking Ray of Enfeeblement and Longstrider. (BTW, both the feats could fit into any of the builds above without problem, making it a nice way to diversify in mid-to-upper levels in those builds, too, without having to invest heavily in wands at this level.)
#11 carnivore Feb 17, 2009 14:51:14	another idea: 1/2 Dragon(Gold) Dwarf Fighter 1 Attributes(32pt buy + halfdragon Dwarf(Str +8, Con +4, Int +2) 22 Str(14 +8 racial) 16 Dex 20 Con(15+4 racial +1 lvl) 14 Int(12 +2 racial) 12 Wis 6 Cha(8 -2 racial) Feats: Combat Expertise Imp Trip extras: +4 Natural Armor +1d6 Bite, and 1d4 Claw 6d8 Cone(30') of Fire 1/day(Ref DC 16 = 1/2 damage) Full Attack = Warhammer + Bite(Trip attack) (Warhammer wack on the head follow up) + Claw(Trip Attack)(Warhammer wack on the head follow up, if possible) :D
#12 erhnamdj Feb 17, 2009 15:06:50	For wands, I like: Entangle, CLW, Ray of Enfeeblement, and Enlarge Person.
#13 jameswilliamogle Feb 17, 2009 15:10:04	Hrm... along those lines a Celestial (or Fiendish) Dwarf wouldn't be so bad either. Smite Evil, DR/magic (though not for 2 levels), energy resistance, SR (though its a little weaker than normal).
#14 Hideous_Phidias Feb 17, 2009 22:38:02	Race What a about a Duergar, it is only a +1 LA You get one less feat feat until you level but some spell-like abilities. (Enlarge person and Invisibility each once a day) I wold also lower your dex maybe raise your strength or charisma. Weapon If you want to go with trip attacks I suggest switching to a weapon to like the Halberd, Guisarme or a sickle. May I suggest being a Two-weapon fighter using a Warhammer in your main hand and a sickle in your off hand. A hooked shield would be better, but not in the core books. Equipment Belt of Healing (MIC) (But the rules to make it are in the DMG) Helm of Battle (MIC) (But the rules to make it are in the DMG) Master Work weapons Master work Breastplate or Full plate Armor
#15 erhnamdj Feb 17, 2009 23:04:12	Know what sucks more than a core-only fighter 4? A core-only fighter 3.
#16 Hideous_Phidias Feb 17, 2009 23:11:20	Ranger one, fighter two, loose only two hit points and gain the feat track and more use to the party other then meat shield.
#17 erhnamdj Feb 17, 2009 23:23:17	If we were improving the classes, Cleric 4 would have been the first words out of our mouths.
#18 Hideous_Phidias Feb 17, 2009 23:28:11	Know what sucks more than a core-only fighter 4? A core-only fighter 3. I would think that a core only fighter with UMD would suck more then losing a level to gain so spell like abilities. Try this build 1) Ranger-Track, Two-weapon fighting, Combat Expertise 2) Fighter- Improved trip 3) Fighter- Weapon Focus (WarHammer) Weapon WArhammer Sickle Skills At first level max out survival, search, spot, listen, craft, knowledge nature knowledge dungeoneeering, and knowledge geography. Then I would use you fighter skill points to cross-class survival and search.
#19 carnivore Feb 18, 2009 4:50:27	I need a dwarf fighter 4 for a core-only game at Sunday. For RP reasons, he should use a Warhammer several builds fullfil the reqs of the request..... but i like this one a lot... 1/2 Dragon(Gold) Dwarf Fighter 1 Attributes(32pt buy + halfdragon Dwarf(Str +8, Con +4, Int +2) 22 Str(14 +8 racial) 16 Dex 20 Con(15+4 racial +1 lvl) 14 Int(12 +2 racial) 12 Wis 6 Cha(8 -2 racial) Feats: Combat Expertise Imp Trip extras: +4 Natural Armor +1d6 Bite, and 1d4 Claw 6d8 Cone(30') of Fire 1/day(Ref DC 16 = 1/2 damage) BAB +1 +6 Str= +7 Attack Bonus... can easily make Melee touch attacks at this level... attacks Prone opponents @+12 with Warhammer Full Attack = Warhammer + Bite(Trip attack) (Warhammer wack on the head follow up) + Claw(Trip Attack)(Warhammer wack on the head follow up, if possible) Trip check: +6 Str +4 Imp Trip = +10 +1d20 vs opponent Str or Dex check also Defensively this character is very good as well ... AC 27 (base 10 +1 Dex +9 Armor +3 Shield +4 Natural Armor) 5400gp equipment: 2500gp +1 Fullplate(+8 Armor,+1 max dex) 1257gp +1 Darkwood heavy shield(+3 shield to AC) 3757gp spent .... 1643gp left 312gp Masterwork Warhammer(+1 to hit) 1000gp +1 Cloak of Resistance(+1 resistance to all saves) remember: TRIP You can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack. You can only trip an opponent who is one size category larger than you, the same size, or smaller. Making a Trip Attack: Make an unarmed melee touch attack against your target. This provokes an attack of opportunity from your target as normal for unarmed attacks. If your attack succeeds, make a Strength check opposed by the defender’s Dexterity or Strength check (whichever ability score has the higher modifier). A combatant gets a +4 bonus for every size category he is larger than Medium or a –4 penalty for every size category he is smaller than Medium. The defender gets a +4 bonus on his check if he has more than two legs or is otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid. If you win, you trip the defender. If you lose, the defender may immediately react and make a Strength check opposed by your Dexterity or Strength check to try to trip you. Avoiding Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Improved Trip feat, or if you are tripping with a weapon (see below), you don’t provoke an attack of opportunity for making a trip attack. Being Tripped (Prone): A tripped character is prone. Standing up is a move action. Prone: The character is on the ground. An attacker who is prone has a
#20 alphabravo Feb 18, 2009 6:34:13	I don't make that char to me but my friend who already decided to play a (untemplated) normal dwarf fighter in that core-only game. I guess i cloud make my DM allow Stand Still. No marts, but i guess I (the Wizard 6) can take the feats and show my DM the XP exchange things to enchant the weapon (and the fighter can make the MW weapons) For the party makeup: 28 Point Buy Human Wizard 6 (me, also want help on feats) Str 10/Dex 12/Con 14/Int 17/Wis 12/Cha 10 (DM does not love penalties and 17+ stats, and i used my 4th-level up on Int) Elf Druid 4 DON'T REMEMBER STATS, BUT CON 14 AND WIS 16 Animal: Riding Dog
#21 jameswilliamogle Feb 18, 2009 7:24:02	I don't make that char to me but my friend who already decided to play a (untemplated) normal dwarf fighter in that core-only game. I guess i cloud make my DM allow Stand Still. No marts, but i guess I (the Wizard 6) can take the feats and show my DM the XP exchange things to enchant the weapon (and the fighter can make the MW weapons) I'm having a hard time understanding this. Do you mean that your friend is playing the Fighter (a non-template Dwarf that uses Warhammers)? Also, how much "pull" do you have with the DM to allow the XP-exchange stuff? For the party makeup: 28 Point Buy Human Wizard 6 (me, also want help on feats) Str 10/Dex 12/Con 14/Int 17/Wis 12/Cha 10 (DM does not love penalties and 17+ stats, and i used my 4th-level up on Int) Its nice that you get to be higher level :D. You have 5 feats as well. In core, metamagic is not quite as good, but I'd still pick a few up even at this level. The following shoots for getting into Archmage at high level; if your campaign doesn't last that long, then please give an idea of where you expect it to end: 1,b,b Improved Initiative, Spell Focus, Scribe Scroll 3 Craft Wonderous Item (almost useless until the mid levels) 5b Craft Magic Arms and Armor (given the party makeup, this is worth it w/o XP transfer) 6 GSpell Focus 9 Spell Penetration 10b Empower Spell 12 Spell Focus 15,b Skill Focus: Spellcraft, Quicken Spell 18 GSpell Focus Elf Druid 4 DON'T REMEMBER STATS, BUT CON 14 AND WIS 16 Animal: Riding Dog
#22 karmme Feb 18, 2009 7:40:20	I need a dwarf fighter 4 for a core-only game at Sunday. For RP reasons, he should use a Warhammer Wow I can't believe that this thread got as many responses as it did, when this was the opener. Yeah, ask to play a +2 LA half dragon/Fighter 2. Then don't take any more levels of fighter .
#23 jameswilliamogle Feb 18, 2009 8:28:03	Wow I can't believe that this thread got as many responses as it did, when this was the opener. Yeah, ask to play a +2 LA half dragon/Fighter 2. Then don't take any more levels of fighter . It was just coincidental that I've been thinking quite a bit lately on how to optimize core-only Fighters without using spiked chains and/or trip, lately (mainly b/c I'm playing in a Pathfinder game, which is fairly bare-bones).
#24 alphabravo Feb 18, 2009 11:18:16	I'm having a hard time understanding this. Do you mean that your friend is playing the Fighter (a non-template Dwarf that uses Warhammers)? A hill dwarf with warhammers, yes Also, how much "pull" do you have with the DM to allow the XP-exchange stuff? I guess I can get him (Wizard) Its nice that you get to be higher level :D. You have 5 feats as well. In core, metamagic is not quite as good, but I'd still pick a few up even at this level. The following shoots for getting into Archmage at high level; if your campaign doesn't last that long, then please give an idea of where you expect it to end: 1,b,b Improved Initiative, Spell Focus, Scribe Scroll 3 Craft Wonderous Item (almost useless until the mid levels) 5b Craft Magic Arms and Armor (given the party makeup, this is worth it w/o XP transfer) 6 GSpell Focus 9 Spell Penetration 10b Empower Spell 12 Spell Focus 15,b Skill Focus: Spellcraft, Quicken Spell 18 GSpell Focus (G)Spell Focus on what? What spells to use? Which specialisation? Also, we won't get to high (>~12) levels (Druid) 1 Improved Initiative 3 Improved Unarmed Strike (very useful for Pounce Wildshape forms later) 6 Natural Spell 9 Multiattack (in Monster Manual for Wildshape forms; should be OK) 12 Quicken Spell 15 Improved Grapple (again, for Wildshape forms) 18 Stunning Fist You could switch the entire Improved Unarmed Strike line with SF:Conj, Augment Summoning, and GSpellFocus and nobody would complain. Other than Natural Spell, no other feat really matters. Which feat/skills for the animal? (Rogue who thinks he's a Fighter) Dual wielding bastard swords is a horrible, horrible idea for a Rogue in core (and not so good outside of core). There's a lot of better ways to make an effective combat Rogue. I do have a variant build on the TWF fighter above that takes 8 Rogue levels to add in sneak attack on their thrown weapons. I think playing a Ranger might be better for the party, though. This insane rogue is a stupid character and almost ruined our mission. I just informed you on it (Normal Rogue) For the Halfling, take advantage of that +1 to hit: TWF, iTWF, gTWF, PBS, Rapid Shot, Imp Initiative, Quickdraw - Use acid flasks to make ranged touch attacks (7 per round with 20 levels of Rogue), all doing sneak attack damage (11d6 for 20 levels of Rogue, or 38.5 damage per hit), and they're all likely to hit as you only need to roll a 10-15 typically (unless you face a non-undead incorporeal cha-based spellcaster), for 269.5 damage (IF it can be sneak attacked). We have a WBL problem. I said no marts. We were 'ported to this another dimension by some means and lost our magic items (we got some local $'s). So no shooting acid flasks on enemies (1/2 Barbarian Orc) Power Attack et al, Imp Initiative, and the rest is fairly easy - the focus is highly dependent on what he wants to do with it (its kind of hard to do more towards damage output than just take Power Attack in core). He has them (Sorcerer) Metamagic feats, and lots of them, along with Improved Familiar at some point. Get into the Loremaster PrC so that it can use UMD at mid-upper levels with good chances of success. What familiar to use (both for me and the sorc)?
#25 jameswilliamogle Feb 18, 2009 11:34:25	(G)Spell Focus on what? What spells to use? Which specialisation? Also, we won't get to high (>~12) levels Totally depends on you. Pick a school and go for it. My advice was if you were going to last until high level. Spell Focus is only going to be useful if you go the Enchanter or Necromancy route, which I don't recomend (particularly in core). Pick up Improved Familiar at some point instead. There's a TON of information on spell selection available, and they're all indexed nicely in the first sticky of this forum "Some Handy Links for Optimization Work". Which feat/skills for the animal? Improved Natural Attack, Multiattack, Power Attack, and then the Power Attack maneuver-line of feats. Improved Unarmed Strike is useful, as well. This insane rogue is a stupid character and almost ruined our mission. I just informed you on it This doesn't really surprise me. Try to convince him to get Spring Attack and use the Bastard Sword with two hands instead. Spring Attack is THE way to melee as a core-only Rogue. We have a WBL problem. I said no marts. We were 'ported to this another dimension by some means and lost our magic items (we got some local $'s). So no shooting acid flasks on enemies I don't understand all of this language, if you could use the full words next time, I would be grateful. Instead of shooting acid flasks, try setting up the Rogue for ranged combat instead (PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, etc). This mixes well with Ranger levels, too. EDIT: Ah, "no marts" = "no stores" or "shops"... and "ported" = "teleported"... OK! Not sure what WBL means, but whatever. He has them Does you know what he wants to do with the Barbarian? I can't really help without more input. What familiar to use (both for me and the sorc)? This is optional as well, but I recomend the Pseudodragon for you and Quasit or Imp for the Sorcerer. The Pseudodragon get Blindsight and Telepathy, allowing it to scout better than anyone else. The Quasit/Imp familiar on the Sorcerer is good if the Sorcerer went into Loremaster: since the familiar has the same skills as its master, the familiar can now use wands from Use Magic Device. I did this on my Sorcerer, and it essentially gave me another action every round. EDIT: My Vision, overall, for the party For the Wizard and Sorcerer, I'm envisioning the Sorcerer as a blaster and the Wizard as a battle-field controller. They naturally fulfill this role as the Sorcerer has many more slots than the Wizard, so the Wizard needs to cast spells that have a longer duration (and usually weaker effect) where the Sorcerer casts stronger "impact" spells, like a little direct damage, sure, but also single-target debuffs like Enervation and Ray of Enfeeblement, etc. This is also amplified by your improved familiars - the pseudodragon gives warning that the Wizard should start casting a buff spell or battlefield control spell, and when combat begins the Quasit/Imp can use wands of ray of enfeeblement and/or doom and other single target spells, and the Sorcerer casts stuff that works better with higher caster level. While the arcane casters are debuffing enemies, the Barbarian charges in to do herculean amounts of damage to the nearest enemy. The Fighter has more tactical decisions to make (ie, which enemy to target, whether to target whether to simply charge or try to overrun or whatever, depending on the build picked). The Druid's job is simple: take out enemy spellcasters. The easiest way to do this is to send the Riding Dog (trained for war) in to bite them (have the Druid teach it a trick: "attack creatures that are casting spells" to force concentration checks). Later, when it can Wildshape, its job is to use a pouncing form to charge in, attacking with all its natural attacks, and all but one iterative unarmed strike attack - that last attack is used to start a grapple on spellcasters. Rogues do their thing: the halfling ranged character should be alternatively hiding, sniping, and then hiding again, where the other rogue (if he goes with spring attack) should be moving into melee in a flank position using Spring Attack, hitting, then moving away (repeatable every round). That's how I see it going down.
#26 sofawall Feb 18, 2009 17:37:05	WBL, wealth by level.
#27 alphabravo Feb 19, 2009 1:42:04	My Vision, overall, for the party: For the Wizard and Sorcerer, I'm envisioning the Sorcerer as a blaster and the Wizard as a battle-field controller. They naturally fulfill this role as the Sorcerer has many more slots than the Wizard, so the Wizard needs to cast spells that have a longer duration (and usually weaker effect) where the Sorcerer casts stronger "impact" spells, like a little direct damage, sure, but also single-target debuffs like Enervation and Ray of Enfeeblement, etc. This is also amplified by your improved familiars - the pseudodragon gives warning that the Wizard should start casting a buff spell or battlefield control spell, and when combat begins the Quasit/Imp can use wands of ray of enfeeblement and/or doom and other single target spells, and the Sorcerer casts stuff that works better with higher caster level. While the arcane casters are debuffing enemies, the Barbarian charges in to do herculean amounts of damage to the nearest enemy. The Fighter has more tactical decisions to make (ie, which enemy to target, whether to target whether to simply charge or try to overrun or whatever, depending on the build picked). The Druid's job is simple: take out enemy spellcasters. The easiest way to do this is to send the Riding Dog (trained for war) in to bite them (have the Druid teach it a trick: "attack creatures that are casting spells" to force concentration checks). Later, when it can Wildshape, its job is to use a pouncing form to charge in, attacking with all its natural attacks, and all but one iterative unarmed strike attack - that last attack is used to start a grapple on spellcasters. Rogues do their thing: the halfling ranged character should be alternatively hiding, sniping, and then hiding again, where the other rogue (if he goes with spring attack) should be moving into melee in a flank position using Spring Attack, hitting, then moving away (repeatable every round). That's how I see it going down. I can't have a Imp/Quasit familiar in my party... you know, they are evil and all
#28 jameswilliamogle Feb 19, 2009 6:34:37	I can't have a Imp/Quasit familiar in my party... you know, they are evil and all That's the first time you've mentioned alignment restrictions. Anyways, your alignment only has to be within 1 step of your familiars with Improved Familiar, so you can be Neutral (Chaotic or Lawful) and still get it. Please give more input if you want more output.
#29 alphabravo Feb 20, 2009 2:23:23	That's the first time you've mentioned alignment restrictions. Anyways, your alignment only has to be within 1 step of your familiars with Improved Familiar, so you can be Neutral (Chaotic or Lawful) and still get it. Please give more input if you want more output. I fear the DM would make the Imp/Quasit kill us at night.
#30 tytalus Feb 20, 2009 8:17:17	Max out your Search skill; Stonecunning gives auto-search in most dungeon environments. Sadly, it's cross-class. Dwarven Fighter 4 - Str and Dex focused 1,b Weapon Focus: Warhammer, Power Attack 2b TWF 3 Cleave 4b WSpec: Warhammer Dual-weilding Warhammers of doom! You have to take a -3 on your attacks to dual-weild them, though... Its not that big of a hit at L12 or so but is pretty big at this level. That might be a bit misleading: you take -2 for TWF and -2 for wielding a non-light weapon in your off-hand. Weapon Focus makes up for that a little, but it's a very hefty penalty at level 4. Compared to carnivore's build (single warhammer, wielded with two hands), it's awful (IMHO); missing is just so much less fun than hitting. several builds fullfil the reqs of the request..... but i like this one a lot... 1/2 Dragon(Gold) Dwarf That's interesting, although the 15 HP are a bit low. But wouldn't you have to have your hands free to trip? I (the Wizard 6) I'd just like to point out that there's something fishy going on regarding the huge level discrepancies. One player 2-3 levels ahead of everyone else, and a wizard no less? In a group with an average level of less than 4? A character that has twice the level than half the rest of the party? I wonder if the DM really knows what he's doing. Human Rogue 3 STATS: DON'T KNOW' Dual-Wields Bastard Swords To quote jameswilliamogle: that's "a horrible, horrible idea for a Rogue in core".
#31 jameswilliamogle Feb 20, 2009 8:54:31	That might be a bit misleading: you take -2 for TWF and -2 for wielding a non-light weapon in your off-hand. Weapon Focus makes up for that a little, but it's a very hefty penalty at level 4. Compared to carnivore's build (single warhammer, wielded with two hands), it's awful (IMHO); missing is just so much less fun than hitting. I commented similarly on the TWF build - its a long-term strategy, and that character can always use the warhammer with two-hands. The build below it does just this. Another build (and the only other damage-boosting build I know of): 1,b Power Attack, Weapon Focus 2b Mounted Combat 3 Ride-by Attack 4b Weapon Specialization 6,b Spirited Charge, GWF The idea is to get double damage on your two-hand wielded warhammer, getting (I think) 3:1 return on your Power Attack modifier. Pretty simple, really. Goes for the Greater Weapon Specialization tree later, and maybe some ranged feats as well.
#32 carnivore Feb 20, 2009 11:17:44	That's interesting, although the 15 HP are a bit low. with an AC 27 ... few things will hit him at this level But wouldn't you have to have your hands free to trip? no... he can use his Bite and Claws to make Trip Attacks.... just make the Follow up Attack vs Prone with Warhammer :D
#33 alphabravo Feb 20, 2009 16:17:33	We also have a human fighter 6 in our party, i just forgot her (Me and the dwarf) we had a noncombat session and she didn't come), and we had a elf cleric 7. What spells/feats to take?