I would give more detail on a build, but that really depends on what kind of options I have for getting access to long term shape changing ability. Permanent duration would be optimal really, but I can work around something shorter, and I believe I will have to. I need a way to change a BBEG into an object that looks like treasure that they'll carry with them long term.
in a game I am running
You are the DM. You don't need rules. You set the rules.
You are the DM. You don't need rules. You set the rules.
FoP?
Other than that, Persistent Polymorph is probably your best bet... Or Baleful Polymorph yourself into something silly (willingly fail the Fort save, but automatically make the Will save).
Casting PAO twice will allow you to assume a form, any form, permanently... How is that for long term?
It does? Where does that say that?
As far as Baleful, that wouldn't do good for my plans really. I'd gain the stats of the new animal, and therefore be unable to get myself OUT of that shape. I have plans for this BBEG that looks like treasure that will be fun to unfold. They involve not being in said form forever.
I prefer not just tossing rules to the side in order to do what I want. Doing so sets a precedent that I don't like. Hence, why I was asking. Else I could do as I wished, and have players that don't respect me.
It does? Where does that say that?
PAO lets you get the type of the assumed form. This is valid even in the latest errata (i.e., PHB II), which states that *unless the spells says otherwise* you do not change the type. PAO specifically says you gain the new type.
So what you do is to turn into the item you want to be on the first casting, and cast it a second time to turn into the same item (you might need Silent and Still Spell for this, and maybe also Arcane Thesis).
Now, if you use the chart that is provided in the PAO entry, you will see that changing from x kingdom to x kingdom gives you +5, same Int gives you another +2, same size gives +2, same exact type gives +2, and a few other things as well. This is off the top of my head, so I may be slightly off here. In any case, to get +9 or higher is a given.
The duration for +9 or higher is "permanent".
Also, with Baleful Polymorph, you only gain the physical stats of the animal. You retain your mental stats, and can still cast spells and stuff if you make the Will save (if you get past Still and Silent). Hence, fail the Fort save, and pass the Will save... Also, to return to your own form, you can just dismiss the spell, which is purely mental standard action? Sorry, AFB right now.
I prefer not just tossing rules to the side in order to do what I want. Doing so sets a precedent that I don't like. Hence, why I was asking. Else I could do as I wished, and have players that don't respect me.
Your players will never know.
Regardless, what level are we talking?
Level is open, which is why I didn't bother with a build. I'll be working the character into the story soon, but won't bust out with my plot until the party is of appropriate level. For whichever build I end up needing to get the polymorphing or whatever done. If I can get it done in 8, I'll do it in 8. If 12, then in 12, and in 15, then in 15. I'll work a build around that. Race, and class and all of that as well.
Good to know, I didn't think about that before. Very useful.
You tell me. Nothing like a Druid/Sorcerer/Arcane Heirophant permanently PAO'd into a dragon or some other nasty beasty and retain his casting ability (only physical stats and Int are affected, none of which are his casting stats) through Natural Spells. DM's jaw hit the ground when that went off. First time in a long time that I found any use for scrolls...
Fiend of Possession is SO much better for NPC treasure. Just possess the sword.
Where is that from?
Where is that from?
Fiend Folio.
In that case, I think I may make an Imp. An Imp Psion with Astral Construct as a focus, which takes a 2 level dip in Fiend of Possession.
Any clue as to how to best work this for a BBEG who would observe a party, and strike at them at his leisure after learning their tricks and such? I am thinking of somewhere between 12-15 ECL here, so I would have 3-6 class levels outside of the 2 FoP levels to play with.
I am thinking I should do stats like this:
Str: 8
Dex: 20
Con: 14
Int: 20 (assuming +3 from 4th, 8th and 12th level)
Wis: 16
Cha: 14
I could work in 6 Shaper Levels, take Practiced Manifester, and have a ML of 10. I would have 50 PP, and be able to do some minor harrying against the party. Nothing ground shaking, but being creative, and having all of the time in the world....I could have fun with this.
Anyone have a suggestion for feats or powers? Ways to make it so that I can get rid of the typical displays that powers produce and make my players really scratch their heads for a while? Alternatives for ways to get an Evil Outsider race that would work better with this wouldn't be amiss either.
From optimization point of view Imp is suicide because of the hit dice and the LA. May I suggest a succubus instead? They're actually worth their ECL. I've run one as a PC.
Even better. Tiefling with Otherworldly qualifies for Fiend of Possession. Only ECL+1. Also, I've heard there are lesser tieflings for ECL+0.
Even better. Tiefling with Otherworldly qualifies for Fiend of Possession. Only ECL+1. Also, I've heard there are lesser tieflings for ECL+0.
Wrong, no evil subtype.
http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-491994
http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-588538
I could alternatively do a cleric build which enters Divine Disciple at 9th level? Takes 5 levels of that, and then 2 of FoP. Which leaves me with 16th level there, 14 levels of Cleric Casting.
Assuming I go with the Wizard...I shall say Wizard 10, FoP 2. I'll then be a focused Conjurer, and because of the way I am planning on using this build, drop Evocation, Abjuration and Necromancy. He'll be hidden, so protection spells won't be needed, and his intent isn't to kill, but to harry, so Evocation and Necromancy aren't as good with that as Conjuration, Enchantment, Illusion and Transmutation in the options I can come up with.
Str: 8
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 21
Wis: 12
Cha: 14
Feats: He will be possessing an inanimate object of some sort. Hence, anything to do with moving, attack, or his body will be dumped in favor of the mental. Which means, I shall be taking flaws for flavor for when the party finally figures out what is going on, and he is forced out of the item. Hence, I shall have a lot of feats freed up. Anyone have suggestions to fill in the blanks here?
1: Otherworldly
Feeble Flaw: Still Spell
Frail Flaw: Silent Spell
Non-Combative Flaw: Eschew Materials
Slow Flaw:
Vulnerable Flaw:
3:
5:
6: Arcane Thesis: Deep Slumber
9: Arcane Thesis: Black Tentacles
10:
how about a portable hole...
iv never seen anyone check whats in side before using it... other than looking for teeth..
A portable hole is an idea. I'll be thinking of something to put him in over the next two weeks I think.
I looked over the Kaorti, I'm not feeling they would fit so well in my game at this moment. I could make them sure, but the issues of their racial needs would see them dead in my campaign so they're pretty much out. The game is fairly restrictive in some ways.
A portable hole is an idea. I'll be thinking of something to put him in over the next two weeks I think.
Just to make sure, you did read the part about the resin armor, right?
From optimization point of view Imp is suicide because of the hit dice and the LA. May I suggest a succubus instead? They're actually worth their ECL. I've run one as a PC.
Even better. Tiefling with Otherworldly qualifies for Fiend of Possession. Only ECL+1. Also, I've heard there are lesser tieflings for ECL+0.
This is an NPC-- level adjustment is irrelevant here. He should actually be looking at the CR of the opponent. And actually, for many of the evil outsiders that would qualify for this levels of psion are actually going to be non-associated, which means more of them up to certain limits.
What CR are you planning on for this character, Magrus?
This is an NPC-- level adjustment is irrelevant here. He should actually be looking at the CR of the opponent.
This is true. A succubus with 6 levels of Sorcerer technically has a CR of 10 only... Although her spells would be nigh unsave-able...
Just to make sure, you did read the part about the resin armor, right?
I did indeed. Most especially the part where they were forced into hiding and forced to come up with this armor, and create it. Which means, it isn't something that they are born with, like a natural carapace. Given my campaign that I have running, the safety and solitude necessary for these things to create these resin armor suits just isn't available. Hence, they would die slowly without them, and wouldn't be in the campaign.
What CR are you planning on for this character, Magrus?
12-15, preferably 12, but I am open to a higher CR if it seems more useful. I was thinking of a Deep Imaskari Focused Conjurer 10 with Otherworldly feat and paying to get the Evil Subtype ritual. However, do you folks really think a Succubus would be a better option? I am going to be preferring a higher level of casting due to the fact he will be striking from within the item he is possessing. Hence, he will need to bump up the spell level in order to use Still and Silent spell on each and every spell he uses. My issue with that is, I would need to take several instances of Spell Mastery I am thinking in order to properly run the wizard so he could stay within the item, and not have to travel to a spell book.
If I were to do a Succubus Sorcerer instead, my stats would look like this:
ECL 12 + 6 Sorcerer + 2 FOP for levels.
HP: 116
Str: 10
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 22
Wis: 14
Cha: 35
Fort: 10+2= 12
Ref: 10+3= 13
Will: 13+2=15
BAB: 10
Special Attacks: Energy drain, spell-like abilities, summon demon
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/cold iron or good, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to electricity and poison, resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and fire 10, spell resistance 18, telepathy 100 ft., tongues
Hrm, she would be better able to handle combat if I could negate the +2 to SL from Still and Silent spell and find some good low level spells to use. Yeah, I like this option better. SR wouldn't increase due to class levels, would it? Thoughts or suggestions for this?
You can find rules on the rules for adding classes to monster characters here - including associated and unassociated class levels.
ECL is not used when you are DMing, unless you're running a DM PC. (An ally of the PCs that you run as if it were your own character.) Instead you should be looking at the CR of the creature-- a succubus is CR 7, an imp would be CR 2 and could have 11 class levels (2 unassociated pushing it to CR 3, then 9 more to reach CR 12).
Regarding the spell resistance, typically it does increase with class levels when monsters are played as PCs with class levels. I wouldn't necessarily take that route with an NPC though-- a better solution might just be increasing the SR based on the CR increase.