Early entry into Eldritch Theurge? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Early entry into Eldritch Theurge?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
theabyssdragon
Feb 12, 2008 14:52:51 I've searched the forums for eldritch theurge and found very little info. It would seem everyone has passed it off as a weak class (which is probably true). However, I'm currently brain storming character concepts to fit into a campaign that is extremely feat, money, and material [books] starved, so I thought the mix of 24 hour buffs and a full on caster would be a good choice.

Since I would like to emphasize the full casterness, I would like to find a way to minimize warlock levels before entry into the class. Unfortunately only Core + Complete + PH2 are allowed. So how can I minimize warlock levels?

The most obvious method I can see would be to take just 1 level of warlock and somehow get an additional +1d6 eldritch blast, but I have no ideas on how to do that.

Thanks for any help!
#2
mittenninja
Feb 12, 2008 15:02:18 Chausable of fell power?
#3
eldritch_lord
Feb 12, 2008 16:59:26
Chausable of fell power?

You'd lose prereqs if you lost it or took it off, and it's probably outside of WBL if they're low-gold.

@OP: It's not really a weak class, it's just that cleric is so much more powerful than warlock that most would rather go Cleric 20 than mess around with warlock.

PrCs that advance arcane caster levels would work, so if you found a CArc PrC you like you could take 2 levels of that, but otherwise I don't know if what you want is doable.
#4
prime361
Feb 12, 2008 17:06:20 Use a dirty trick to qualify for a dual progression PrC, which will gain you warlock levels for everything but class abilities(and still most of those increase) then take 2 levels of the PrC to allow entry into Eldritch Theurge without having to actually take the Warlock levels.

The Prime Suspect.

p.s. is Eldritch Theurge divine/lock or arcane/lock? Either way there are a ton of PrCs in my M.O.L.D. Build in my sig. One of the might help you qualify without losing CL.
#5
paradox-of-life
Feb 12, 2008 17:09:54
You'd lose prereqs if you lost it or took it off, and it's probably outside of WBL if they're low-gold.
...
stuff

Once you do meet the preq's, you would no longer need the chausable.
#6
eldritch_lord
Feb 12, 2008 17:45:49
Once you do meet the preq's, you would no longer need the chausable.

Well, yes, but it's still something he'll need to keep in mind, as (A) the DM might not allow it and (B) it might be too expensive.

p.s. is Eldritch Theurge divine/lock or arcane/lock? Either way there are a ton of PrCs in my M.O.L.D. Build in my sig. One of the might help you qualify without losing CL.

There was some debate a while back about the "wrong" names being used, so I think Theurge is the divine and Disciple is the arcane, but I might be wrong.
#7
carnivore
Feb 12, 2008 19:55:59 Eldritch Disciple ... advances Divine(9/10) and Warlock(10/10) ... but you lose 1 CL of Divine.. but it is easy to qualify for.... Warlock 1/ Cleric 4

Eldritch Theurge ... advances Arcane(10/10) and Warlock(10/10) .... but requires Warlock 3 and 2nd lvl Arcane spells ..... the best way is to use the feat Precocious Apprentice with Warlock 3, this allows for lots of fun

:D
#8
eldritch_lord
Feb 12, 2008 20:53:52
Eldritch Disciple ... advances Divine(9/10) and Warlock(10/10) ... but you lose 1 CL of Divine.. but it is easy to qualify for.... Warlock 1/ Cleric 4

Eldritch Theurge ... advances Arcane(10/10) and Warlock(10/10) .... but requires Warlock 3 and 2nd lvl Arcane spells ..... the best way is to use the feat Precocious Apprentice with Warlock 3, this allows for lots of fun

:D

Ack, switched up the names again. I'll second Precocious Apprentice, though, if your DM will let you; some get picky about spells, plural.
#9
learos
Feb 12, 2008 21:15:00 I'm not familiar with this PrC or the prereqs, but can the Improved sigil Krau cheese be used for early entry? Wiz 1/Warlock3/...

nevermind...just read the full OP again, core, completes and PHB2, and now I feel *DUM*.
#10
theabyssdragon
Feb 12, 2008 23:54:08 Thanks for all the replies and sorry I couldn't get back sooner. I'm aware that I can get in with wiz1/warlock3, but I was aiming to reduce the lock levels over the wizard levels. The names are a bit odd because theurge is in both mystic theurge and psychic theurge, which implies that it corresponds to divine, but is actually arcane in this case.

There is no way I would be able to use an item to qualify for the class. I'd be lucky to get the item in the first place. Also I forgot to note, that I'll be joining the campaign at level 7, but it's a slow going campaign, so I don't intend to get anything higher than 12th though I'll still plan to at least 15th.
#11
foxwander
Apr 05, 2008 14:45:28 I doubt this will help you, since it's certainly non-core, but my DM allowed me to create a feat for the warlock based on the feat "Master Spellthief" from Complete Scoundrel.

The Master Spellthief feat is one of those feats that lets you stack certain different class levels together to determine abilities in those classes. For Master Spellthief it lets you stack spellthief and another arcane casting class to determine 1) what level of spells you can steal as a spellthief and 2) your caster level for your arcane casting class. It also gives your arcane casting class the ability to cast in light armor from the spellthief class. Obviously a pretty good deal for, say, a wizard/spellthief- it bumps your main spellthieving schtick, plus improved CL and no ASF in light armor.

We created a "Master Warlock" feat which copies that feat, except for warlock instead of spellthief. Your warlock and arcane caster class levels stack to determine your eldritch blast damage (which is the main schtick of a warlock) and your arcane caster level. And you get light armor arcane casting from the warlock's ability.

This let my character be a Wizard 4/ Warlock 1 then go into eldritch theurge. I took 2 levels of wizard then warlock at 3rd level with Master Warlock as my 3rd level feat. So I still had to take Precocious Apprentice so I could meet the pre-reqs for Master Warlock which requires 2nd level spells just like the original feat.

So far it's working pretty well and doesn't seem too unbalanced. I'm at full character level power for my eldritch blasts and arcane caster level, but I'm 4 levels behind for invocations and one level behind for wizard spells- but only one level behind isn't too bad there. Full power eldritch blasts might seem like a bit much but that only means I'm just as behind on the damage output scale as every other warlock is. It'll only matter when I can combine it with a spell to give one guy in a group of mooks that 1-2 bunch of EB and fireball.

Anyway, like I said, it's a non-core as you can get but maybe your DM will allow it. Not all rules have to come from the books.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 theabyssdragon Feb 12, 2008 14:52:51	I've searched the forums for eldritch theurge and found very little info. It would seem everyone has passed it off as a weak class (which is probably true). However, I'm currently brain storming character concepts to fit into a campaign that is extremely feat, money, and material [books] starved, so I thought the mix of 24 hour buffs and a full on caster would be a good choice. Since I would like to emphasize the full casterness, I would like to find a way to minimize warlock levels before entry into the class. Unfortunately only Core + Complete + PH2 are allowed. So how can I minimize warlock levels? The most obvious method I can see would be to take just 1 level of warlock and somehow get an additional +1d6 eldritch blast, but I have no ideas on how to do that. Thanks for any help!
#2 mittenninja Feb 12, 2008 15:02:18	Chausable of fell power?
#3 eldritch_lord Feb 12, 2008 16:59:26	Chausable of fell power? You'd lose prereqs if you lost it or took it off, and it's probably outside of WBL if they're low-gold. @OP: It's not really a weak class, it's just that cleric is so much more powerful than warlock that most would rather go Cleric 20 than mess around with warlock. PrCs that advance arcane caster levels would work, so if you found a CArc PrC you like you could take 2 levels of that, but otherwise I don't know if what you want is doable.
#4 prime361 Feb 12, 2008 17:06:20	Use a dirty trick to qualify for a dual progression PrC, which will gain you warlock levels for everything but class abilities(and still most of those increase) then take 2 levels of the PrC to allow entry into Eldritch Theurge without having to actually take the Warlock levels. The Prime Suspect. p.s. is Eldritch Theurge divine/lock or arcane/lock? Either way there are a ton of PrCs in my M.O.L.D. Build in my sig. One of the might help you qualify without losing CL.
#5 paradox-of-life Feb 12, 2008 17:09:54	You'd lose prereqs if you lost it or took it off, and it's probably outside of WBL if they're low-gold. ... stuff Once you do meet the preq's, you would no longer need the chausable.
#6 eldritch_lord Feb 12, 2008 17:45:49	Once you do meet the preq's, you would no longer need the chausable. Well, yes, but it's still something he'll need to keep in mind, as (A) the DM might not allow it and (B) it might be too expensive. p.s. is Eldritch Theurge divine/lock or arcane/lock? Either way there are a ton of PrCs in my M.O.L.D. Build in my sig. One of the might help you qualify without losing CL. There was some debate a while back about the "wrong" names being used, so I think Theurge is the divine and Disciple is the arcane, but I might be wrong.
#7 carnivore Feb 12, 2008 19:55:59	Eldritch Disciple ... advances Divine(9/10) and Warlock(10/10) ... but you lose 1 CL of Divine.. but it is easy to qualify for.... Warlock 1/ Cleric 4 Eldritch Theurge ... advances Arcane(10/10) and Warlock(10/10) .... but requires Warlock 3 and 2nd lvl Arcane spells ..... the best way is to use the feat Precocious Apprentice with Warlock 3, this allows for lots of fun :D
#8 eldritch_lord Feb 12, 2008 20:53:52	Eldritch Disciple ... advances Divine(9/10) and Warlock(10/10) ... but you lose 1 CL of Divine.. but it is easy to qualify for.... Warlock 1/ Cleric 4 Eldritch Theurge ... advances Arcane(10/10) and Warlock(10/10) .... but requires Warlock 3 and 2nd lvl Arcane spells ..... the best way is to use the feat Precocious Apprentice with Warlock 3, this allows for lots of fun :D Ack, switched up the names again. I'll second Precocious Apprentice, though, if your DM will let you; some get picky about spells, plural.
#9 learos Feb 12, 2008 21:15:00	I'm not familiar with this PrC or the prereqs, but can the Improved sigil Krau cheese be used for early entry? Wiz 1/Warlock3/... nevermind...just read the full OP again, core, completes and PHB2, and now I feel DUM.
#10 theabyssdragon Feb 12, 2008 23:54:08	Thanks for all the replies and sorry I couldn't get back sooner. I'm aware that I can get in with wiz1/warlock3, but I was aiming to reduce the lock levels over the wizard levels. The names are a bit odd because theurge is in both mystic theurge and psychic theurge, which implies that it corresponds to divine, but is actually arcane in this case. There is no way I would be able to use an item to qualify for the class. I'd be lucky to get the item in the first place. Also I forgot to note, that I'll be joining the campaign at level 7, but it's a slow going campaign, so I don't intend to get anything higher than 12th though I'll still plan to at least 15th.
#11 foxwander Apr 05, 2008 14:45:28	I doubt this will help you, since it's certainly non-core, but my DM allowed me to create a feat for the warlock based on the feat "Master Spellthief" from Complete Scoundrel. The Master Spellthief feat is one of those feats that lets you stack certain different class levels together to determine abilities in those classes. For Master Spellthief it lets you stack spellthief and another arcane casting class to determine 1) what level of spells you can steal as a spellthief and 2) your caster level for your arcane casting class. It also gives your arcane casting class the ability to cast in light armor from the spellthief class. Obviously a pretty good deal for, say, a wizard/spellthief- it bumps your main spellthieving schtick, plus improved CL and no ASF in light armor. We created a "Master Warlock" feat which copies that feat, except for warlock instead of spellthief. Your warlock and arcane caster class levels stack to determine your eldritch blast damage (which is the main schtick of a warlock) and your arcane caster level. And you get light armor arcane casting from the warlock's ability. This let my character be a Wizard 4/ Warlock 1 then go into eldritch theurge. I took 2 levels of wizard then warlock at 3rd level with Master Warlock as my 3rd level feat. So I still had to take Precocious Apprentice so I could meet the pre-reqs for Master Warlock which requires 2nd level spells just like the original feat. So far it's working pretty well and doesn't seem too unbalanced. I'm at full character level power for my eldritch blasts and arcane caster level, but I'm 4 levels behind for invocations and one level behind for wizard spells- but only one level behind isn't too bad there. Full power eldritch blasts might seem like a bit much but that only means I'm just as behind on the damage output scale as every other warlock is. It'll only matter when I can combine it with a spell to give one guy in a group of mooks that 1-2 bunch of EB and fireball. Anyway, like I said, it's a non-core as you can get but maybe your DM will allow it. Not all rules have to come from the books.