Early Way to Qualify for Malconvoker? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Early Way to Qualify for Malconvoker?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
ramaloke
Apr 09, 2009 14:06:02 Does anybody know an early way to qualify for Malconvoker? It looks like the standard way to qualify is a Level 5 wizard. The only way I can think to qualify early is somehow get Summon Monster III as a spell like ability before level 5.
#2
pithica
Apr 09, 2009 15:03:23
Does anybody know an early way to qualify for Malconvoker? It looks like the standard way to qualify is a Level 5 wizard. The only way I can think to qualify early is somehow get Summon Monster III as a spell like ability before level 5.

A Dragonwrought Kobold with Loredrake could potentially meat the reqs at Sorcerer 4. Provided Flaws were allowed (he's one feat shy without flaws).
#3
ramaloke
Apr 10, 2009 3:40:59 Ok, I figured out how to qualify for Malconvoker at level 2. You have to be a spellstitched necropolitan, however this is obscenely expensive for that level and you probably never be able to pay for the process at that level.
#4
pithica
Apr 10, 2009 10:42:16 You can't be a necropolitan at level two.
#5
thaosyr23
Apr 10, 2009 10:52:27 yes you can, it causes lvl loss, thats it.
#6
pithica
Apr 10, 2009 10:56:31 And it causes you to lose 1000xp, which, if it drops you to 0 or below, kills you, permanently.

Nowhere in level 2 do you have a level to lose + 1000xp. Can't be done.
#7
phaedrusxy
Apr 10, 2009 10:57:13
You can't be a necropolitan at level two.

You could be level 2 after becoming a necropolitan, couldn't you? That would also give you level 3 gold to use (which is still not nearly enough).
#8
pithica
Apr 10, 2009 11:03:55 That's true. Assuming your DM doesn't reset xp to the beginning of a level on level loss, if you were in level 3 with extra xp, you could lose a level (dropping you to level 2), then lose 1000xp (probably dropping you to level 1), then work your way back up to level 2.

But at that point, you've (probably) earned enough XP to be level 4, which isn't really any earlier than Sorcerer with loredrake.
#9
phaedrusxy
Apr 10, 2009 11:24:28 Yes, but he will be lower level, and so will gain levels faster, and have more levels to spend before hitting Epic.

Also, I think officially when you lose a level, you wind up exactly halfway between the two, but I can't remember where this is stated.

Edit: Found it.
Level Loss

A character who loses a level instantly loses one Hit Die. The character’s base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, and special class abilities are now reduced to the new, lower level. Likewise, the character loses any ability score gain, skill ranks, and any feat associated with the level (if applicable). If the exact ability score or skill ranks increased from a level now lost is unknown (or the player has forgotten), lose 1 point from the highest ability score or ranks from the highest-ranked skills. If a familiar or companion creature has abilities tied to a character who has lost a level, the creature’s abilities are adjusted to fit the character’s new level.

The victim’s experience point total is immediately set to the midpoint of the previous level.

#10
ramaloke
Apr 10, 2009 14:38:54 Cant you also avoid leveling up and bankroll XP?

That's true. Assuming your DM doesn't reset xp to the beginning of a level on level loss, if you were in level 3 with extra xp, you could lose a level (dropping you to level 2), then lose 1000xp (probably dropping you to level 1), then work your way back up to level 2.

But at that point, you've (probably) earned enough XP to be level 4, which isn't really any earlier than Sorcerer with loredrake.

But it is quicker than the Loredrake on the level progression.
#11
phaedrusxy
Apr 10, 2009 14:55:33
Cant you also avoid leveling up and bankroll XP?

That would be a really bad idea, since losing a level automatically sets your XP to halfway below the level you just lost.
#12
ramaloke
Apr 10, 2009 15:01:17 Ok so, becoming a Necropolitan as soon as you hit level 3 should set you to level 1, with 500xp in the bank.
#13
pithica
Apr 10, 2009 16:10:20
Also, I think officially when you lose a level, you wind up exactly halfway between the two, but I can't remember where this is stated.

Things I wish I had known a long time ago #5,423. Every time it's come up, we've always set you back to the beginning of the level, unless you were more than 50% through. I don't honestly know if someone house-ruled that, or if it was another hold over from a previous edition, or what, though. It's only happened a couple times that I can recall, though.
#14
pithica
Apr 10, 2009 16:17:19
But it is quicker than the Loredrake on the level progression.

Only if you could also afford the cost of Spell-stitching, which you can't, unless you're in some crazy monty haul situation. You're talking about almost 31,000gp in base price, just from the materials and xp needed to get 3rds. That's almost 9th level WBL, or 11th level if you double it to market price (like you're supposed to), or 17th level if you're limited to the normal 1/4th on any one 'item' limit.
#15
ramaloke
Apr 10, 2009 16:24:54 Yeah, but say you start out at level 11 in a game, you could *possibly* convince the dm that you had say "an inheritance", which you spent when you turned level 3 (to turn into a necropolitan and get spell stitched).
#16
pithica
Apr 10, 2009 16:29:20
Yeah, but say you start out at level 11 in a game, you could *possibly* convince the dm that you had say "an inheritance", which you spent when you turned level 3 (to turn into a necropolitan and get spell stitched).

And spend your entire WBL on one item that only saves you two levels in your progression over 'normal' but grants you nothing else of value????

How is that optimal?
#17
phaedrusxy
Apr 10, 2009 16:34:59
Ok so, becoming a Necropolitan as soon as you hit level 3 should set you to level 1, with 500xp in the bank.

I forget how much XP it takes to get to each level. Isn't it:

1 0xp
2 1000xp
3 3000xp

?

If so, no matter how far into 3rd you were, you'd be set back to exactly 2000 XP, and then lose another 1000 on top of that, putting you exactly at what you need to be 2nd level. You could craft a scroll or something and drop down to 1st, I think (unless the rules prohibit level loss from crafting... I forget).
#18
ramaloke
Apr 10, 2009 16:50:35
I forget how much XP it takes to get to each level. Isn't it:

1 0xp
2 1000xp
3 3000xp

?

If so, no matter how far into 3rd you were, you'd be set back to exactly 2000 XP, and then lose another 1000 on top of that, putting you exactly at what you need to be 2nd level. You could craft a scroll or something and drop down to 1st, I think (unless the rules prohibit level loss from crafting... I forget).

Wait, wouldn't you drop down to level 2, and have 1500 XP (since your XP is set midpoint of the previous level) then you loose another 1000xp, putting you at level 1 with 500 xp?
#19
phaedrusxy
Apr 10, 2009 17:08:42
Wait, wouldn't you drop down to level 2, and have 1500 XP (since your XP is set midpoint of the previous level) then you loose another 1000xp, putting you at level 1 with 500 xp?

The halfway point between 3,000 and 1,000 is 2,000. So unless I got the numbers wrong for how much XP it takes to reach each level, no. I thought it required your current level x 1000 more XP to reach the next level, but I don't have the book in front of me to check.
#20
pithica
Apr 10, 2009 17:19:45 You've got the numbers correct. 1000xp for 2nd, 3000xp for 3rd, 6,000xp for 4th...etc
#21
ramaloke
Apr 10, 2009 17:49:14
The halfway point between 3,000 and 1,000 is 2,000. So unless I got the numbers wrong for how much XP it takes to reach each level, no. I thought it required your current level x 1000 more XP to reach the next level, but I don't have the book in front of me to check.

Yes, but you dont get half your total XP from a level loss, you get to half the XP needed to hit the level you just lost. So if I lost a level at level 2, I should be at 500xp, since 500xp is half of the 1000xp needed to get to level 2. So if you went from 3 to 2 you should be at 1500xp, because you need 3000 to hit level 3.

Atleast thats the way I see it.
#22
phaedrusxy
Apr 10, 2009 17:58:34 Am I crazy, or are you?
Yes, but you dont get half your total XP

Right. Which is exactly what I'm saying.
you get to half the XP needed to hit the level you just lost.

Right. Halfway between the XP needed to be level 2, and what is needed to be level 3. Which is also what I said.
So if I lost a level at level 2, I should be at 500xp, since 500xp is half of the 1000xp needed to get to level 2.

Right.
So if you went from 3 to 2 you should be at 1500xp, because you need 3000 to hit level 3.

And.... that's where you lost me. 1500 XP is half of your total XP, not half of the difference between 3rd and 2nd level. That would be 2000 XP. You need 1000 XP to be 2nd level, and 3000 XP to be 3rd level. Halfway between those two numbers is 2000 XP, not 1500 XP.
#23
ramaloke
Apr 10, 2009 18:09:15 Hmm, I think you are right, You would need to scribe scrolls or some such to get down to the proper level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ramaloke Apr 09, 2009 14:06:02	Does anybody know an early way to qualify for Malconvoker? It looks like the standard way to qualify is a Level 5 wizard. The only way I can think to qualify early is somehow get Summon Monster III as a spell like ability before level 5.
#2 pithica Apr 09, 2009 15:03:23	Does anybody know an early way to qualify for Malconvoker? It looks like the standard way to qualify is a Level 5 wizard. The only way I can think to qualify early is somehow get Summon Monster III as a spell like ability before level 5. A Dragonwrought Kobold with Loredrake could potentially meat the reqs at Sorcerer 4. Provided Flaws were allowed (he's one feat shy without flaws).
#3 ramaloke Apr 10, 2009 3:40:59	Ok, I figured out how to qualify for Malconvoker at level 2. You have to be a spellstitched necropolitan, however this is obscenely expensive for that level and you probably never be able to pay for the process at that level.
#4 pithica Apr 10, 2009 10:42:16	You can't be a necropolitan at level two.
#5 thaosyr23 Apr 10, 2009 10:52:27	yes you can, it causes lvl loss, thats it.
#6 pithica Apr 10, 2009 10:56:31	And it causes you to lose 1000xp, which, if it drops you to 0 or below, kills you, permanently. Nowhere in level 2 do you have a level to lose + 1000xp. Can't be done.
#7 phaedrusxy Apr 10, 2009 10:57:13	You can't be a necropolitan at level two. You could be level 2 after becoming a necropolitan, couldn't you? That would also give you level 3 gold to use (which is still not nearly enough).
#8 pithica Apr 10, 2009 11:03:55	That's true. Assuming your DM doesn't reset xp to the beginning of a level on level loss, if you were in level 3 with extra xp, you could lose a level (dropping you to level 2), then lose 1000xp (probably dropping you to level 1), then work your way back up to level 2. But at that point, you've (probably) earned enough XP to be level 4, which isn't really any earlier than Sorcerer with loredrake.
#9 phaedrusxy Apr 10, 2009 11:24:28	Yes, but he will be lower level, and so will gain levels faster, and have more levels to spend before hitting Epic. Also, I think officially when you lose a level, you wind up exactly halfway between the two, but I can't remember where this is stated. Edit: Found it. Level Loss A character who loses a level instantly loses one Hit Die. The character’s base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, and special class abilities are now reduced to the new, lower level. Likewise, the character loses any ability score gain, skill ranks, and any feat associated with the level (if applicable). If the exact ability score or skill ranks increased from a level now lost is unknown (or the player has forgotten), lose 1 point from the highest ability score or ranks from the highest-ranked skills. If a familiar or companion creature has abilities tied to a character who has lost a level, the creature’s abilities are adjusted to fit the character’s new level. The victim’s experience point total is immediately set to the midpoint of the previous level.
#10 ramaloke Apr 10, 2009 14:38:54	Cant you also avoid leveling up and bankroll XP? That's true. Assuming your DM doesn't reset xp to the beginning of a level on level loss, if you were in level 3 with extra xp, you could lose a level (dropping you to level 2), then lose 1000xp (probably dropping you to level 1), then work your way back up to level 2. But at that point, you've (probably) earned enough XP to be level 4, which isn't really any earlier than Sorcerer with loredrake. But it is quicker than the Loredrake on the level progression.
#11 phaedrusxy Apr 10, 2009 14:55:33	Cant you also avoid leveling up and bankroll XP? That would be a really bad idea, since losing a level automatically *sets* your XP to halfway below the level you just lost.
#12 ramaloke Apr 10, 2009 15:01:17	Ok so, becoming a Necropolitan as soon as you hit level 3 should set you to level 1, with 500xp in the bank.
#13 pithica Apr 10, 2009 16:10:20	Also, I think officially when you lose a level, you wind up exactly halfway between the two, but I can't remember where this is stated. Things I wish I had known a long time ago #5,423. Every time it's come up, we've always set you back to the beginning of the level, unless you were more than 50% through. I don't honestly know if someone house-ruled that, or if it was another hold over from a previous edition, or what, though. It's only happened a couple times that I can recall, though.
#14 pithica Apr 10, 2009 16:17:19	But it is quicker than the Loredrake on the level progression. Only if you could also afford the cost of Spell-stitching, which you can't, unless you're in some crazy monty haul situation. You're talking about almost 31,000gp in base price, just from the materials and xp needed to get 3rds. That's almost 9th level WBL, or 11th level if you double it to market price (like you're supposed to), or 17th level if you're limited to the normal 1/4th on any one 'item' limit.
#15 ramaloke Apr 10, 2009 16:24:54	Yeah, but say you start out at level 11 in a game, you could possibly convince the dm that you had say "an inheritance", which you spent when you turned level 3 (to turn into a necropolitan and get spell stitched).
#16 pithica Apr 10, 2009 16:29:20	Yeah, but say you start out at level 11 in a game, you could possibly convince the dm that you had say "an inheritance", which you spent when you turned level 3 (to turn into a necropolitan and get spell stitched). And spend your entire WBL on one item that only saves you two levels in your progression over 'normal' but grants you nothing else of value???? How is that optimal?
#17 phaedrusxy Apr 10, 2009 16:34:59	Ok so, becoming a Necropolitan as soon as you hit level 3 should set you to level 1, with 500xp in the bank. I forget how much XP it takes to get to each level. Isn't it: 1 0xp 2 1000xp 3 3000xp ? If so, no matter how far into 3rd you were, you'd be set back to exactly 2000 XP, and then lose another 1000 on top of that, putting you exactly at what you need to be 2nd level. You could craft a scroll or something and drop down to 1st, I think (unless the rules prohibit level loss from crafting... I forget).
#18 ramaloke Apr 10, 2009 16:50:35	I forget how much XP it takes to get to each level. Isn't it: 1 0xp 2 1000xp 3 3000xp ? If so, no matter how far into 3rd you were, you'd be set back to exactly 2000 XP, and then lose another 1000 on top of that, putting you exactly at what you need to be 2nd level. You could craft a scroll or something and drop down to 1st, I think (unless the rules prohibit level loss from crafting... I forget). Wait, wouldn't you drop down to level 2, and have 1500 XP (since your XP is set midpoint of the previous level) then you loose another 1000xp, putting you at level 1 with 500 xp?
#19 phaedrusxy Apr 10, 2009 17:08:42	Wait, wouldn't you drop down to level 2, and have 1500 XP (since your XP is set midpoint of the previous level) then you loose another 1000xp, putting you at level 1 with 500 xp? The halfway point between 3,000 and 1,000 is 2,000. So unless I got the numbers wrong for how much XP it takes to reach each level, no. I thought it required your current level x 1000 more XP to reach the next level, but I don't have the book in front of me to check.
#20 pithica Apr 10, 2009 17:19:45	You've got the numbers correct. 1000xp for 2nd, 3000xp for 3rd, 6,000xp for 4th...etc
#21 ramaloke Apr 10, 2009 17:49:14	The halfway point between 3,000 and 1,000 is 2,000. So unless I got the numbers wrong for how much XP it takes to reach each level, no. I thought it required your current level x 1000 more XP to reach the next level, but I don't have the book in front of me to check. Yes, but you dont get half your total XP from a level loss, you get to half the XP needed to hit the level you just lost. So if I lost a level at level 2, I should be at 500xp, since 500xp is half of the 1000xp needed to get to level 2. So if you went from 3 to 2 you should be at 1500xp, because you need 3000 to hit level 3. Atleast thats the way I see it.
#22 phaedrusxy Apr 10, 2009 17:58:34	Am I crazy, or are you? Yes, but you dont get half your total XP Right. Which is exactly what I'm saying. you get to half the XP needed to hit the level you just lost. Right. Halfway between the XP needed to be level 2, and what is needed to be level 3. Which is also what I said. So if I lost a level at level 2, I should be at 500xp, since 500xp is half of the 1000xp needed to get to level 2. Right. So if you went from 3 to 2 you should be at 1500xp, because you need 3000 to hit level 3. And.... that's where you lost me. 1500 XP is half of your total XP, not half of the difference between 3rd and 2nd level. That would be 2000 XP. You need 1000 XP to be 2nd level, and 3000 XP to be 3rd level. Halfway between those two numbers is 2000 XP, not 1500 XP.
#23 ramaloke Apr 10, 2009 18:09:15	Hmm, I think you are right, You would need to scribe scrolls or some such to get down to the proper level.