ECL 6 Character Optimization needed

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

farrell

Nov 30, 2008 12:09:13
OK, my DM will start a new compaign. The sources include core books (PHB1, MM1, DMG1), CAr, CAd, CD, CW, CM. Every PC can have a ECL 6 character.

Basically I want to be a caster focusing on summoning monsters. My build is human conjurer 3 / master specialist 3, forbidden schools are Evocation and Enchantment.

Feats include Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summon, Rapid Spell, Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration) and bonus feats Scribe Scroll and Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration) from classes.

Now I want to hear your idea about this build. Any suggestion about race ? feats ? spells ? Prc ?

Thanks
#2

Wyvernhand

Nov 30, 2008 13:08:01
Looks pretty solid to me. My only recommendation is that you trump up a list of stat blocks that include the modified AC, AB, dmg, and HP of all of the stuff you'll be summoning. Shouldn't be that hard with only SMI-SMIII to worry about. Pick out your favorites, and go.
#3

jenos

Nov 30, 2008 21:11:07
There's an excellent guide for the prestige class malconvoker(http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13677754) I highly suggest you check it out. Its level 5 ability allows you to double your summons, and level 1 ability is extend your summons, though it does take a caster level hit.

Just to sum up some important points from there, see if you can get the rapid summoning alternate class feature from UA. Its available on the SRD, and you give up your familiar for the ability to cast Summon Monster # as a standard action. Also from UA is enhanced summoning, well worth it as you trade scribe scroll for augment summoning, freeing up a feat. I also suggest looking at the Focused Specialist feature in CM, frankly you'll easily make use of the additional spell slots with even more summon monsters.

Probably want to go Conj 3/MS 2/Malconvoker 1, as that will give you level 5 casting and the ability to extend your summons.

If malconvoker isn't your thing(And it may not be because of RP restrictions) you can use arcane disciple(summoner) to get planar ally on your spell list for thaumataugrist. Conj 3/MS 4/Thaum 5/MS 6-10/Archmage 2 could work, giving you extend spell for free on your summons by level 10, and 2 levels of archmage for useful abilities. Paragnostic apostle works as well, could possibly toss in a level of mindbender for telepathy which is always useful with summons. But to use arcane disciple on summoner domain you need to be CG or convince your DM to allow other dieties to have summoning domain(Which shouldn't be too hard).

Still, malconvoker is amazing if you intend to be hard core summoning, and frankly if you aren't going mal I'd say you'll be a better summoner as a druid or a cleric.
#4

farrell

Nov 30, 2008 22:29:53
Thank you all.

Jenos, I do have read that thread, but thank you for pointing that link to me. Unfortunately, my DM doesn't allow anything from CS or UA......

If I want to be a divine summoner instead of arcane summoner, what kind of Prc can I pick ?
#5

jenos

Nov 30, 2008 23:59:27
Doh, to be honest I didn't even notice you hadn't listed CS in that, saw every other complete and assumed scoundrel, I guess. Do you at least have access to the spell compendium?

If you don't have access to malconvoker, it gets a bit messier. I presume you have access to divine metamagic, though probably no nightsticks, so I'm leaning toward a clerical summoner. However, a straight wizard into MS works perfectly fine. Without ashbound, greenbound, or moonspeaker(FR/Ebberon) druidic summoner won't be exceptional either. Again, you can just spend lots of spellslots on summon monsters and make use of augment summon, but thats really the max specialization in summong druids can go without more books.

If you want to go wizard, you still want to be a focused specialist in conjuration. Focused Specialist 3/MS 10/Paragnostic 3/Archmage 4 could work, really those last 7 levels you just want full spellcasting prestige classes. While you can build your feats around summoning, with your limited selection you can't go beyond what you've listed, for the most part. Wild Soul(CM) adds some additional creatures to your spell list. However without being able to pick up stuff like malconvoker, you can't specialize in summoning more than you're specializing in conjuration. MS 10 ability can't be used on summon monster unless you prepare it as a rapid spell, or the like, which makes it less appealing for straight out summoning. You'll definitely be able to summon and make good use of them, but also have a wide variety of other conjuration spells which make for an effective non-summoner-conjurer.

Feats for that build, in addition to what you've listed, you want cloudy conjuration(Cast caltrops and get a free 5' radius cloud for 1 round, amazing) summon elemental[reserve] for fun with a weak elemental that can scout, flank, etc, all day long. Both feats from CM.

If you want, you can try to go for thamataugrist. As I mentioned in my previous post you're going to need arcane disciple or some other way of getting Lesser Planar Ally on your spell list, but if you can its useful. Free extend spell on your summons, a contingent spell you don't need to pay exp/gold for, and some planar ally shenanigans. You can get in at level 8.

Perhaps: Focused Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 5/Thamataugrist 5/Master Specialist 6-10/Archmage 2. You don't even need MS beyond 4 if you don't really want the end ability(Though its sweet for conjurers, 3/day quicken).

Feats: Spell Focus: Conj(Lvl 1) Cloudy Conjuration(Human) Augment Summoning(3) Arcane Disciple(6) Rapid Spell(9) Summon Elemental(12) Metamagic School Focus: Conj(15) Extraordinary Concentration(18) for possible feats, you can drop summon elemental for something else if you want, and same with cloudy conjuration(Though cloudy conjuration is powerful if used properly). You are a bit feat starved(No craft cont, though shadow evocation can pop that out at level 15)

You are limited to CG alignment to get into thamataugrist since the only diety that offers summoner domain(And thus, the planar ally series) is CG, if your DM lets other gods take it it frees up alignment restriction.

Like I said before, going wizard doesn't overly focus you in summoning as it does the conjuration school. You can choose to go mostly summon monsters, but that may not be the best option given how powerful conjuration is.

If you want to go divine, its built along similar lines. You grab thamataugrist as early as possible, and fill in the levels with any number of +1 spellcasting prestige classes. If you can wrangle it with your DM, you can use precocious apprentice to get into dweormerkeeper, so you can sponaneously cast summon monsters if you so wish, along with the general brokeness of supernatural spell. However I don't think theres a way without precocious apprentice to get into dweormer without losing a caster level.

Cleric 5/Dweormerkeeper 4/Thamataugrist 5/DWK 6-10. Grab rapid spell/DMM rapid spell, precocious apprentice, Spell Focus Conj and augment, other DMM's you want(Twin or repeat, or something like that). I'm a fan of this simply because you can at least spotaneously turn anything into summon monsters, so that gives you more flexibility. However you are again going to be using non-summoning a fair bit, other clerical spells are that good so you definitely don't always want to be tossing out summons.

So yea, some ideas to kick around. Thamataugrist is really the only viable "summoning focused" prestige class other than malconvoker. Alienist is just bad, unless you want to RP the whole going insane for minor summoning abilities. You could poentially look into Wild Soul, it adds some new monsters to the lists, but again RP restrictions may not want you to do that. Wild Soul isn't half bad, but I personally don't think its worth the caster level hit(though if you go all 10 levels spontaenous time stop is niiiice). Mindbender is nice for a 1 level dip for telepathy.

But yea, its going to boil down significantly to your feat choices more than anything. Once you pick up augment summoning you're as focused toward a summoner as you can really get(Summon elemental as a third, I guess). Rapid spell if you want that standard action spell, but even with metamagic school focus you can't really afford to do it often. Arcane thesis on like summon 7 could work, but really not much more specializtion beyond that. Thamataugrist is your best bet for summoner prestige class, but even then it isn't spectacular, just nice.
#6

farrell

Dec 01, 2008 20:47:17
I really appreciate that, Jenos

I used to have a build like this: human conjurer 3 / MS 2 / Malconvoker 5 / MS 3-10 / Malconvoker 6-7.

But now I am thinking that I want more. Besides enhancing summon abilities, is there any way to increase polymorph powers as well ? Any combination of PrC's could do this ? Or maybe I want too much ?
#7

ChristopherGroves

Dec 01, 2008 21:01:49
God I hate to say this.

You want to summon and change your shape. Um. The pink elephant in the room is a druid ...

Otherwise you're looking at 2 separate schools to specialize in ... and that gets tricky. Pick one and go with it, use the other "plain" ... optimize summons, use normal polymorph ... or optimize shapechanging, use normal summoning. Either work well enough.

Pity Races of the Wild isn't in (Arcane Heirophant)
#8

bruceleeroy

Dec 01, 2008 21:05:48
Increase Polymorph powers more?

Become an outsider. Otherworldly is a feat from Players Guide to Faerun ( I think?). Makes you an outsider(Native). Instant access to ridiculous amounts of great polymorph shapes.

Of course, like ChristopherGroves said, there's always druid. or, heh. Planar Shepard. heh heh heh.
#9

jenos

Dec 01, 2008 23:44:19
I believe the only way for you to be polymorphing and summoning without being a druid is actually to be a cleric. The only ways to nab the outsider template within your books are contemplative and alienist, I belive. While contemplative and thamataugrist are 10 and 5 levels long each, repectively, you're unable to enter these classes until later on(level 11 for cont, level 8 for tham) which means that you won't be able to finish both. Thamataugrist gets significantly weaker with every level you delay it - extended summoning is useless if you pick it up at level 16, when your summons already last the entirety of a battle, and if you already have access to contingency(by shadow evocation or the actual spell) then contingent summoning also becomes less useful. If you head into tham at level 8 you nab extend at level 10, when a summon may not stick around for a whole battle and extend allows this, and level 11 contingency, when you can't even pick up craft contingency till 12 and cast contingency until level 13/15. Having both craft cont and summon cont is really quite useful by level 12(When I am about to get grappled by a hostile foe, contingiently cast summon monster 50 yards from me. When I contingently cast summon monster, benign transposition with it. Hard for DM to complain about the cheese factor with that, and the monster is now suddenly grabbling a fiendish dire ape, and you spend minimal gold/exp on this, for those cheapskates out there =p).

You can, if you want, go alienist. I do not reccomend this, however 10 levels of alienist will give you minor summoning abilities and outsider status. Alienist is a crappy class to take, though. Psuedonatural template is in no way better than celestial/fiendish, and it prevents you from summoning the outsiders later on with the cool SLA's. It kills your abilities to be useful socially, and it gives you very minor benefits. I do not think this is worth outsider status at all, but you may really want it as an arcane caster, and this is the only way I believe to get it early enough to make use of it.

If you want to go druid you're not going to be able to "focus" on summoning that much. Grab augment summoning and summon elemental feats, but thats it. I'd normally suggest spirit shaman for more spells/day, but you want to be able to polymorph so stick with druid. However, you're looking at a druid summoner without greenbound, or any other SNA increasing ability. No prestige classes to really enhance SNA, so I'm leery about doing anything with.

You don't even have access to ROTW, so arcane hierophant is out. No FR means the effective ways of grabbing outsider(You can't even make use of divine disciple which is a far less cheesy way to grab outsider than otherworldly, and you can get both outsider and summoning abilities by level 16 cleric). No PLH means no neraph(+0 LA outsider), so yea, I don't think its feasible for you to focus on both other than simpy making a druid.

I still stick by cleric being the best because of DMM. With a base charisma of 12 or 14 and enhanced to around 20-22 by level 12, you're looking at 4+ rapid summons a day, and thats not even getting into mm school focus. Level 1: Spell Focus, 3:Human Augment summoning, 6:rapid spell, 9:DMM rapid spell, 12:MM school focus conj, you're looking at like 7 standard action SM's a day by level 12(or 9 if you're human) without having to be human(If you are human throw like summon elemental in there if you want, or shift it back to level 9), which could prove very useful. You could decide to go some other DMM and make use of that, its up to you.

If you really want the feel of a summoner/polymorpher go druid then. SNA a dire lion, send in your tiger companion, then wildshape into a bear and charge. Lions and tigers and bears, oh my. However - without access to even greenbound summoning I don't know how well the summons stand up later on in the game, though they could serve useful in the mid game(levels 5-10).

So yea, more options to kick around. I think druid is probably the closest in terms of actual gameplay to what you want, though I think the cleric would end up serving to be more powerful. You could still just go focused conjurer, and that is very powerful, though you would be using a lot more battlefield control(And using SM as a BC spell - summon a wolf, have him trip, then slap some grease on the prone guy so he can't do anything other than getting sneak attacked by the rogue).