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Electric wizard help

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
dyslexicfaser
Mar 11, 2009 21:13:40 I'm far better with martial characters than magical ones, so I needed some help with optimizing a high-level (18) character that uses a lot of air or electricity magic. Doesn't have to be a wizard, per say - could be druid or cleric or whatever, too.

Any thoughts on feats, spells, PrCs? Appreciate it.
#2
mister_crowley
Mar 11, 2009 21:48:42 Stormlord out of Complete Divine is an interesting electricity cleric build. Elemental Savant (Complete Arcane) is an arcane build that you could choose electricity with. Personally I think a sorcerer would be best. Go Sorcerer 8/Incantrix 10 and take Energy Substitution (Electricity) as one of your bonus metamagic feats and go to town. For race I'd go Spellscale (Races of Dragon) and take maximize spell and then practical metamagic, combined with your 10th level incantrix ability your maximized spells only take up one level higher ;) Boom.
#3
dragonson
Mar 12, 2009 9:52:10 Elemental Savant is a very interesting PrC. I've run a Sor/Ele. Savant NPC before and he was quite effective. Be aware that by doing this, you are really going to a blasting style. The Elemental Savant is designed more for offensive destruction than controlling. However, the benefits are quite nice. 10th level turns you into a full elemental (no crits on you!) and gives you the abilities (including movement) of your chosen elemental type (for a Medium one).

Sor 6 is the earliest you can get into this class. You'd need a single metamagic feat and then take Energy Substitution (any) (If you want lightning-based, you need Electricity which makes you and Air Savant). I can't remember the skill needs, but they're not hard. You also need to have made contact with elementals of the type you want. And, of course, you must know spells of the energy type you want. Easiest way to do this is take as many electric spells you can. Here's some:
lvl 1- Lesser Orb of Electricity (CArc)
lvl 2- Arc of Lightning (PH2), Seeking Ray(PH2, Errata'd to be Elec. descriptor)
lvl 3- Lightning Bolt (naturally)
And I think that qualifies you.

If you do this, be aware that if you face demons, you will be really hurting. You'd need to use other spells (whether they deal another kind of damage or are more control-oriented, it doesn't matter) since demons are completely immune to your chosen specialty.
#4
CantripN
Mar 12, 2009 9:55:18 Use Stormcaster, instead (Storwrack).
#5
pithica
Mar 12, 2009 10:08:04 Repeat the following 5 words...

Born of the Three Thunders

Then repeat the following 6 words...

Extra Spell-Favor of the Martyr

2 Feats, and now all your Electricity spells deal Sonic damage (which is harder for mobs to overcome, as noone get's it naturally), and Stun on a failed fort save (in addition to any other save the spell grants) and knock creatures prone on a failed reflex save (in addition to any other save the spell grants).

Plus, you're free to use all the celerity cheese you want at no extra cost.

Now, you build a Wiz (or sorceror), with at least 4 levels of Incantatrix and persist spell and use Metamagic effect to persist the following spell...

Lightning Ring (Spell Compendium) (Born of the Three Thunder's version).

Now you have a ring of lightning surrounding you at all times that deals 10d6 damage (Ref half, half sonic/half electricity) to any creature fool enough to stand next to you, which also potentially stuns and knocks them prone, AND get two 5d6 lightning bolts (as the spell) for free every round as free actions (at the beginning of your turn) that are also half sonic and potentially stun/knock prone.

If you really want to get gross, you can share the spell with your familiar (since it's personal), and you have two rings surrounding you, and get 4 lightning bolts/rd all as above.

A solid build would be something like...

Human Conjurer (drop Enchant and Illusion or Necromancy) 5/Incantatrix 10/Warmage (PrC) 5

EDIT: With the above + Energy Substitution [Electricity] and Arcane Thesis-Orb of Fire, you could cast a Chained and Empowered Orb of Fire [15d6+45*1.5 Electricity,Sonic] that potentially Dazes>Stuns>Knocks prone, the target, all as a 4th level spell, you could even add Enervating and keep it 4th, so that it also takes a level off anyone of the 21 people it potentially hits.
#6
Grumman
Mar 12, 2009 10:26:36 If you get to use LA buyoff, a Mechanatrix from the Fiend Folio could be interesting, as it would let you heal yourself by catching yourself in the blast of any electricity-based AOE attack.
#7
dyslexicfaser
Mar 12, 2009 16:45:52 Thanks for the ideas, everyone.

Not sure I can float Incantrix, lots of DMs ban that one for being too awesome.

Is there any particularly good level cut-off for stormcaster? The capstone, Lord of the Storm, is okay (lightning and sonic resistance) but not particularly amazing. Maybe the 5th level ability, Thunderbolt (adds a little sonic damage to lightning spells and possibly a stun)?
#8
Endarire
Mar 12, 2009 19:02:23 1: Shapechange into a Shambling Mound.
2: Have someone cast shocking grasp on you repeatedly.

You are now electrifying!
#9
carnivore
Mar 12, 2009 19:44:17 Storm Singer (Frostburn) is very good

:D
#10
dyslexicfaser
Mar 12, 2009 20:13:43 I looked into the Incantrix ability, and I have to ask:

Pithica, wouldn't slapping Persist on a Lightning Ring make it an effective spell level of 14, which would be a Spellcraft check of 60? How would you possibly make it?
#11
jameswilliamogle
Mar 12, 2009 20:24:27
I looked into the Incantrix ability, and I have to ask:

Pithica, wouldn't slapping Persist on a Lightning Ring make it an effective spell level of 14, which would be a Spellcraft check of 60? How would you possibly make it?

More importantly, doesn't the errata prevent that? You could reduce it a few ways (metamagic reduced by 1 for each of: incanatrix L10, metamagic school focus, arcane thesis, and some other ways which require a few feats) down to a L10 spell. Down to a L9 w/ Halruun L3 (I think thats the one).

Leadership, masterwork items, fusion, lots of ways to get that DC (all take lots of investment of resources).
#12
phaedrusxy
Mar 12, 2009 20:41:26 What is this errata on free metamagic I keep hearing about recently? WotC is still releasing 3.5 errata?
#13
Endarire
Mar 12, 2009 20:50:38 WotC errataed an Incantatrix's instant metamagic to apply only to spell levels you could normally cast.

Also, you could make a DC60 Spellcraft check fairly easily late game. Assuming an item of +20 Spellcraft, 20 ranks, +7 INT, and Skill Focus: Spellcraft (Master Specialist) allows you to take 10 when not threatened for a total of 60. Even without aid another- a debatable tactic if an aider isn't an Incantatrix- you could get +32 Spellcraft from an item (a masterwork tool +30), 23 ranks, +13 INT (Sarruhk form and an item of 6 INT), and Skill Focus: Spellcraft for +71. That's a check of 81, or effectively 84 if you count Improved Metamagic.
#14
pithica
Mar 13, 2009 7:20:38 To answer your Question, Phaedrus, no, WotC hasn't updated the Errata for PGtF since 2004, people just can't read. Instant metamagic was errata'd back then. I'm not suggesting using Instant Metamagic, I was suggesting using Metamagic Effect, which is different (and not capped by spell level).

Assuming you are still starting at 18, your spellcraft should look like...

21 (ranks) + 9 (Int of 28, which is what you have if you start with an Int of 18 and put all free points + a +6 Int item) + 2 (Spellcraft Tool 50gp) + 15 (Competence Tool 22,500gp) + 2 (Synergy from Knowledge Arcana) + 2 (Aid Another by my familiar) + 3 (Skill Focus: Spellcraft (needed for archmage anyway)) = 54

Which is 64 if you take 10, enough to persist a 9th level spell (DC 63).

If you took the capstone for Incantatrix (took it all the way to 10), Persist drops to +5, which reduces the DC for each spell level by 3, so as long as you can break DC 60 with a take 10 by 17/18, you can persist any spell you want with metamagic effect.
#15
jameswilliamogle
Mar 13, 2009 8:49:04
people just can't read.

Which is why I asked.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dyslexicfaser Mar 11, 2009 21:13:40	I'm far better with martial characters than magical ones, so I needed some help with optimizing a high-level (18) character that uses a lot of air or electricity magic. Doesn't have to be a wizard, per say - could be druid or cleric or whatever, too. Any thoughts on feats, spells, PrCs? Appreciate it.
#2 mister_crowley Mar 11, 2009 21:48:42	Stormlord out of Complete Divine is an interesting electricity cleric build. Elemental Savant (Complete Arcane) is an arcane build that you could choose electricity with. Personally I think a sorcerer would be best. Go Sorcerer 8/Incantrix 10 and take Energy Substitution (Electricity) as one of your bonus metamagic feats and go to town. For race I'd go Spellscale (Races of Dragon) and take maximize spell and then practical metamagic, combined with your 10th level incantrix ability your maximized spells only take up one level higher ;) Boom.
#3 dragonson Mar 12, 2009 9:52:10	Elemental Savant is a very interesting PrC. I've run a Sor/Ele. Savant NPC before and he was quite effective. Be aware that by doing this, you are really going to a blasting style. The Elemental Savant is designed more for offensive destruction than controlling. However, the benefits are quite nice. 10th level turns you into a full elemental (no crits on you!) and gives you the abilities (including movement) of your chosen elemental type (for a Medium one). Sor 6 is the earliest you can get into this class. You'd need a single metamagic feat and then take Energy Substitution (any) (If you want lightning-based, you need Electricity which makes you and Air Savant). I can't remember the skill needs, but they're not hard. You also need to have made contact with elementals of the type you want. And, of course, you must know spells of the energy type you want. Easiest way to do this is take as many electric spells you can. Here's some: lvl 1- Lesser Orb of Electricity (CArc) lvl 2- Arc of Lightning (PH2), Seeking Ray(PH2, Errata'd to be Elec. descriptor) lvl 3- Lightning Bolt (naturally) And I think that qualifies you. If you do this, be aware that if you face demons, you will be really hurting. You'd need to use other spells (whether they deal another kind of damage or are more control-oriented, it doesn't matter) since demons are completely immune to your chosen specialty.
#4 CantripN Mar 12, 2009 9:55:18	Use Stormcaster, instead (Storwrack).
#5 pithica Mar 12, 2009 10:08:04	Repeat the following 5 words... Born of the Three Thunders Then repeat the following 6 words... Extra Spell-Favor of the Martyr 2 Feats, and now all your Electricity spells deal Sonic damage (which is harder for mobs to overcome, as noone get's it naturally), and Stun on a failed fort save (in addition to any other save the spell grants) and knock creatures prone on a failed reflex save (in addition to any other save the spell grants). Plus, you're free to use all the celerity cheese you want at no extra cost. Now, you build a Wiz (or sorceror), with at least 4 levels of Incantatrix and persist spell and use Metamagic effect to persist the following spell... Lightning Ring (Spell Compendium) (Born of the Three Thunder's version). Now you have a ring of lightning surrounding you at all times that deals 10d6 damage (Ref half, half sonic/half electricity) to any creature fool enough to stand next to you, which also potentially stuns and knocks them prone, AND get two 5d6 lightning bolts (as the spell) for free every round as free actions (at the beginning of your turn) that are also half sonic and potentially stun/knock prone. If you really want to get gross, you can share the spell with your familiar (since it's personal), and you have two rings surrounding you, and get 4 lightning bolts/rd all as above. A solid build would be something like... Human Conjurer (drop Enchant and Illusion or Necromancy) 5/Incantatrix 10/Warmage (PrC) 5 EDIT: With the above + Energy Substitution [Electricity] and Arcane Thesis-Orb of Fire, you could cast a Chained and Empowered Orb of Fire [15d6+45*1.5 Electricity,Sonic] that potentially Dazes>Stuns>Knocks prone, the target, all as a 4th level spell, you could even add Enervating and keep it 4th, so that it also takes a level off anyone of the 21 people it potentially hits.
#6 Grumman Mar 12, 2009 10:26:36	If you get to use LA buyoff, a Mechanatrix from the Fiend Folio could be interesting, as it would let you heal yourself by catching yourself in the blast of any electricity-based AOE attack.
#7 dyslexicfaser Mar 12, 2009 16:45:52	Thanks for the ideas, everyone. Not sure I can float Incantrix, lots of DMs ban that one for being too awesome. Is there any particularly good level cut-off for stormcaster? The capstone, Lord of the Storm, is okay (lightning and sonic resistance) but not particularly amazing. Maybe the 5th level ability, Thunderbolt (adds a little sonic damage to lightning spells and possibly a stun)?
#8 Endarire Mar 12, 2009 19:02:23	1: Shapechange into a Shambling Mound. 2: Have someone cast shocking grasp on you repeatedly. You are now electrifying!
#9 carnivore Mar 12, 2009 19:44:17	Storm Singer (Frostburn) is very good :D
#10 dyslexicfaser Mar 12, 2009 20:13:43	I looked into the Incantrix ability, and I have to ask: Pithica, wouldn't slapping Persist on a Lightning Ring make it an effective spell level of 14, which would be a Spellcraft check of 60? How would you possibly make it?
#11 jameswilliamogle Mar 12, 2009 20:24:27	I looked into the Incantrix ability, and I have to ask: Pithica, wouldn't slapping Persist on a Lightning Ring make it an effective spell level of 14, which would be a Spellcraft check of 60? How would you possibly make it? More importantly, doesn't the errata prevent that? You could reduce it a few ways (metamagic reduced by 1 for each of: incanatrix L10, metamagic school focus, arcane thesis, and some other ways which require a few feats) down to a L10 spell. Down to a L9 w/ Halruun L3 (I think thats the one). Leadership, masterwork items, fusion, lots of ways to get that DC (all take lots of investment of resources).
#12 phaedrusxy Mar 12, 2009 20:41:26	What is this errata on free metamagic I keep hearing about recently? WotC is still releasing 3.5 errata?
#13 Endarire Mar 12, 2009 20:50:38	WotC errataed an Incantatrix's instant metamagic to apply only to spell levels you could normally cast. Also, you could make a DC60 Spellcraft check fairly easily late game. Assuming an item of +20 Spellcraft, 20 ranks, +7 INT, and Skill Focus: Spellcraft (Master Specialist) allows you to take 10 when not threatened for a total of 60. Even without aid another- a debatable tactic if an aider isn't an Incantatrix- you could get +32 Spellcraft from an item (a masterwork tool +30), 23 ranks, +13 INT (Sarruhk form and an item of 6 INT), and Skill Focus: Spellcraft for +71. That's a check of 81, or effectively 84 if you count Improved Metamagic.
#14 pithica Mar 13, 2009 7:20:38	To answer your Question, Phaedrus, no, WotC hasn't updated the Errata for PGtF since 2004, people just can't read. Instant metamagic was errata'd back then. I'm not suggesting using Instant Metamagic, I was suggesting using Metamagic Effect, which is different (and not capped by spell level). Assuming you are still starting at 18, your spellcraft should look like... 21 (ranks) + 9 (Int of 28, which is what you have if you start with an Int of 18 and put all free points + a +6 Int item) + 2 (Spellcraft Tool 50gp) + 15 (Competence Tool 22,500gp) + 2 (Synergy from Knowledge Arcana) + 2 (Aid Another by my familiar) + 3 (Skill Focus: Spellcraft (needed for archmage anyway)) = 54 Which is 64 if you take 10, enough to persist a 9th level spell (DC 63). If you took the capstone for Incantatrix (took it all the way to 10), Persist drops to +5, which reduces the DC for each spell level by 3, so as long as you can break DC 60 with a take 10 by 17/18, you can persist any spell you want with metamagic effect.
#15 jameswilliamogle Mar 13, 2009 8:49:04	people just can't read. Which is why I asked.