My question is can this be made good? At 1st level it is comparable to a Wolf. And by 16th it is comparable to a Dire Tiger, In between it is better for a few lvls and worse for a few more, but pretty much evens out.
I think it is really cool and can be quite flavorful. But it can't benefit from my Animal Buff spells.
If I do this I was planning on an Earth Elemental because earth glide is just so sweet. And because they seem to make the best tanks of the 4 basic elementals.
So any suggestions to make this equal to or better than the normal animal companion? If not is this bad to the point where it would be stupid to take?
First of all, do NOT get the +4 to STR/CON, take always the size increase. A quick comparison of the elementals of different size will tell you why.
The comparison.
Small and medium elementals are REALLY bad. They are much worse than your standard riding dog/brown bear. MUCH worse.
Don't even look at them. Do not summon them for combat. Do not even think about them.
The large elemental is almost on par with the brown bear, but that lasts only for 3 levels (10-11-12). At 13th level he loses badly against the dire bear.
Also the elemental has worse will/reflex save (much worse, compared to the dire bear) and does not have improved grab.
The huge elemental is almost on par with the advanced dire bear (mostly tanks to the DR 10/-) but he has worse will/reflex save, and no improved grab, again.
I have to concede that being able to fly (air elemental) or earth glide (earth elemental) is really good, BUT remember that the druid spell list has a LOT of AWESOME animal only spells. Just thinking of losing the possibility to animal growth my animal companion and watch a huge dire bear eat a dragon makes me cry.
Not worth it, sorry
The large elemental is almost on par with the brown bear, but that lasts only for 3 levels (10-11-12). At 13th level he loses badly against the dire bear.
Almost on par? I'm not sure what stats you're looking at, but mine show that the elemental does more damage, has +1 to hit, has more hit points, has a higher AC, and has DR 5/-, which is huge. The brown bear has a secondary attack and Improved Grab. I think I'd take the elemental, myself. Now the Dire Bear is much better, yes, but the brown bear certainly isn't.
The small and medium elementals are terrible though.
And yes, unless you're afraid of your large or huge elemental getting stuck in dungeons, size is always better than HD; medium is the minimum though.
Almost on par? I'm not sure what stats you're looking at, but mine show that the elemental does more damage, has +1 to hit, has more hit points, has a higher AC, and has DR 5/-, which is huge. The brown bear has a secondary attack and Improved Grab. I think I'd take the elemental, myself. Now the Dire Bear is much better, yes, but the brown bear certainly isn't.
The small and medium elementals are terrible though.
Please.
At level 10th the brown bear will be upgraded by your druid levels, so actually if you want to compare:
Bear
Show
BEAR, BROWN
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 8d8+32 (68 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (–1 size, +2 Dex, +7 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+19
Attack: Claw +14 melee (1d8+9)
Full Attack: 2 claws +14 melee (1d8+9) and bite +9 melee (2d6+4)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, Evasion
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +3
Abilities: Str 28, Dex 14, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
kills: Listen +4, Spot +9, Swim +12
Feats: Endurance, Run, Track
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 8d8+32 (68 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (–1 size, +2 Dex, +7 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+19
Attack: Claw +14 melee (1d8+9)
Full Attack: 2 claws +14 melee (1d8+9) and bite +9 melee (2d6+4)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, Evasion
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +3
Abilities: Str 28, Dex 14, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
kills: Listen +4, Spot +9, Swim +12
Feats: Endurance, Run, Track
Its not optimized, but played smartly it can be more versatile than standard druid companion. That is my piece on the matter.
Seems like a good summary. Now is there anything we can do to make elemental companions stronger?
Are there any specific elementals that would be better than an earth elemental?
What spells would be optimal to buff them with?
Are there any feats that would help be beneficial?
Oh, and what happens when it dies? How do you get a new one? How did I get my first one? Is it summoned somehow as a class feature? If so an argument could be made to apply augment summons to it.
Oh, and what happens when it dies? How do you get a new one? How did I get my first one? Is it summoned somehow as a class feature? If so an argument could be made to apply augment summons to it.
It takes the place of your companion, so unlike wizards:
If a druid releases her companion from service, she may gain a new one by performing a ceremony requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of prayer. This ceremony can also replace an animal companion that has perished.
Shouldn't it improve every 4 lvs or something?
If I had the option in our campaign, I would choose an elemental companion most favorable to the setting. I can generally summon everything else and imo as mentioned earlier the elemental's higher intelligence just make them easier to direct. No need for "tricks" etc.
Also, it's much easier to store/hide the larger elemental companions vs. the larger animal ones. A huge dire bear (remembering what these things looks like) parked outside the nearby village might attract too much attention where as an most of the elementals can blend into their element with greater ease. "Dang, that pool that bonfire never seems to burn out..."
Versatility is key in my book, your spells and feats will augment your specialty.
...and if your DM lets your elemental take that elemental feat from Savage Species that would be nice. The one where if/when it dies it's explodes into d6/HD. Draconians used to do that...those were the days.
Savage Species is the one WoTC book I don't have access to, will have to stop by the bookstore and take a look at that feat, though I don't plan on having my companion die all that often.
That beats out the riding dog at first in my mind. It's not as good of a defensive critter, but it's better for offense and scouting. It's also more difficult to kill at those levels due to flight and immunities.
As for the Brown Bear?
BEAR, BROWN
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 8d8+32 (68 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 18 (–1 size, +2 Dex, +7 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+19
Attack: Claw +14 melee (1d8+9)
Full Attack: 2 claws +14 melee (1d8+9) and bite +9 melee (2d6+4)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, Evasion
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +8, Will +3
Abilities: Str 28, Dex 14, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
kills: Listen +4, Spot +9, Swim +12
Feats: Endurance, Run, Track
Large Air Elemental
Large Elemental
Hit Dice: 8d8+24 (60 hp)
Initiative: +11
Speed: 100 ft. Fly (Perfect) (20 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (–1 size, +7 Dex, +4 natural), touch 16, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+12
Attack: Slam +12 melee (2d6+2)
Full Attack: 2 Slams +12 melee (2d6+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Air Mastery, Whirlwind
Special Qualities: Darkvision, DR 5/-, Elemental traits
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +13, Will +2
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 25, Con 16, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 11
kills: Listen +5, Spot +6
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Flyby Attack, Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
So the bear has:
- better to hit and grapple
- improved grab
- low light vision
- track
- scent
- swimming ability
- possibility to cast on him animal growth (that, at ECL 10, you can already cast)/nature's favor/the awesome animal spells on druid list
The elemental has:
- DR
- better AC
- better Initiative
- reach
- darkvision
- flight and is much faster with perfect manuverability
- elemental immunities/no crits/cannot be flanked
- flyby attack
- is intelligent
- possibly proficient in all simple weapons (give it crossbow and you've got a flying archer)
I don't think it's as clear cut as the elementals being bad so much as different.
A storm based druid would do very well by an air elemental companion.
Versatility-wise I admit that it can be useful but less so than an earth elemental (earth glide is golden!), that is a better fighter to boot.
Yes, gly 100' is nicer, but you are a druid. If needed just turn into a legendary eagle and do the job yourself. The air elemental is redundant.
If you are playing in the FR, the fancy elementals in Unapproachable East, would be nice to have, Orglash and somethin or other.....
A large air elemental is SO bad in combat, compared to the (buffable) bear that I don't even want to start to consider that. The damage-per-round is much lower, and no improved grab.
Yes it's so bad in combat that if you threw it in and the bear against each other, the air elemental wins without being touched.
Even buffed with animal growth and airwalk the bear will still probably lose to the unbuffed air elemental. The bear always loses to the earth elemental. Yeah, that's horrible combat potential there.
It's not that you can't buff the elemental, it's that you're stuck on only the spells you're used to using for animals. And while the bear may do 'more damage' (about 4 points per attack more) it had better do more damage since it's got less ac, speed, initiative, no dr, can't fly, can't see in the dark, no reach and no immunities.
Versatility-wise I admit that it can be useful but less so than an earth elemental (earth glide is golden!), that is a better fighter to boot.
Yes, gly 100' is nicer, but you are a druid. If needed just turn into a legendary eagle and do the job yourself. The air elemental is redundant.
I would rather the air elemental be 'redundant' while still adding to damage, distracting enemies and helping with combat and being much more tactically valuable, than useless like the bear stuck on the ground down below us.
I think you need to think your argument through a little more.
The bear deals out an average of 21.6 with its claws, and 6.05 with its bite. For a total of 27.65, but:
When you include the elementals DR, that should take off:
8 pts from the claws and 2.75 off the bite (on average per round), which reduced the Bears damage to the Elemental to: 16.9 hps a round.
So overall it just depends on if you think your opponents will use magic weapons on the Bear/Elemental.
Yes it's so bad in combat that if you threw it in and the bear against each other, the air elemental wins without being touched.
Even buffed with animal growth and airwalk the bear will still probably lose to the unbuffed air elemental. The bear always loses to the earth elemental. Yeah, that's horrible combat potential there.
It's not that you can't buff the elemental, it's that you're stuck on only the spells you're used to using for animals. And while the bear may do 'more damage' (about 4 points per attack more) it had better do more damage since it's got less ac, speed, initiative, no dr, can't fly, can't see in the dark, no reach and no immunities.
I would rather the air elemental be 'redundant' while still adding to damage, distracting enemies and helping with combat and being much more tactically valuable, than useless like the bear stuck on the ground down below us.
I think you need to think your argument through a little more.
What do you guys smoke?
Yes, putting the more mobile elemental against the bear stuck on ground is a win... but... hello? They will probably never fight against each other!
You are a druid: you need a heavy and sturdy bodyguard, not someone that adds some more damage and can't do anything better than yourself! How many air-only encounters do you get at levels 10-12?
Also, let's say that the elemental is better. That lasts only for levels 10, 11 and 12, then the dire bear kicks in. Before that the medium elemental is laughable.
Will you take a feat that is suboptimal 17 levels out of 20?
What do you guys smoke?
Yes, putting the more mobile elemental against the bear stuck on ground is a win... but... hello? They will probably never fight against each other!
You are a druid: you need a heavy and sturdy bodyguard, not someone that adds some more damage and can't do anything better than yourself! How many air-only encounters do you get at levels 10-12?
I think you missed the point. With the air elemental's combination of reach, flight and fly by attack, they're devastating to anything that can't fly and doesn't have reach. The earth elemental is even worse since it can attack while underground, few things can effectively deal with that. For example, if you encountered, say, a dire bear in the woods and it attacked the party... the air elemental can kill it with no help from the party and expending no resources at all, which is the point.
As for needing a body guard, I'm not sure about your druids, but I think having wildshape means druids doesn't need a body guard. In fact I would point out that the majority of animal companions are very poorly suited to defensive roles.
Also, let's say that the elemental is better. That lasts only for levels 10, 11 and 12, then the dire bear kicks in. Before that the medium elemental is laughable.
Will you take a feat that is suboptimal 17 levels out of 20?
Well, for starters it's not a feat, and the elemental gets better as well and has been useful from the start having 2dh, a starting AC of 17, and 100' perfect fly speed with fly by attack since level 1 along with the whirlwind ability and elemental immunities, so you whole "it's suboptimal for 17 out of 20 levels" is massively misguided on many, many levels.
Or to put it another way, Your dire bear is only better than the Air Elemental for 3 levels. Why bother to take the dire bear then if it's suboptimal for 17 out of 20 levels?
The Dire Bear also suffers from all the same deficiencies the previous bear did. Yes, it's slightly tougher and does slightly more damage, but still has much worse movement, no flight, no reach, no intelligence, and might sometimes be a tougher to kill than the elemental... sometimes. And that only lasts for... 3 levels. Then the elemental becomes huge.
I'll be playing in an aquatic / ship setting soon with a druid.. so to me, I think the usefulness of an elemental (be it water, though they would be very limited coming out to shore or an air) far beats out some of the animal companions I can be using.. what do you all think? :o
Is it safe to assume that any buffs/healing that would work on a standard race (human, orc, etc) would work on an elemental? One of the characters I'm planning on making is a Druid with a Large Earth Elemental companion/protector, and it'll make sense for that character to keep his friend alive as much as possible. Thanks in advance for the help!
Under Elemental:
"Proficient with natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry."
Fire, Water, and Earth elementals (although sadly not Air) are described in the 3.5 MM as generally humanoid in shape, so they know how to use simple weapons, whereas animals do not. I'm not sure if there's anything too crazy you can do with this though, but maybe someone can think of something clever. If you could find a way for an earth elemental to take a polearm Earth Gliding with it, you could have some hilarity, but I don't know how.
ehhh split the difference then I guess. pick up the Summon Elemental reserve feat when it opens up and always have at least one highest lvl summoning spell memorized so that you can constantly call out an elemental compainion. it'll never get bigger then "Large", you can dismiss and switch out on the fly, if the gm approves summoning feats buff it and all ya gotta do is resummon when it gets seporated, time elapses, or something eats it. it's usefull, pretty much free, and gives ya the flavor ya wanted.
Why bother when you can simply refrain from casting one of your 8th level spells and still qualify for the feat due to spontaneous summons?
The idea is the halfling rides on the 'shoulders' of a large air elemental, using the elementals natural flying ability to gain battlefield control, and summoning beasties to wreak havok on his enemies.
I am curious though, whether one could cast Call Lightning (and thus get the improved 'storm' bonus to damage) while riding an elemental. I couldn't find anything one way or another, so I guess it falls to DM fiat - what do you all think?
Theo
so the elemental companion sounds quite good but tell me it only permits air,fire, earth and water elementals? because i 'd love to have the one the elemental is invisible (don't remember the name)
Same is true for any other spell you'd normally cast on your animal companion.
I didn't write the rules, I just (ab)use them.
Theo
Remember though, that with the Shared Spell feature, you can cast any spell on your companion, even if it doesn't match type. That's one reason I wanted to go with the halfling - so I'd have that bonus to ride... as long as the elemental stays within 5' (pretty easy since I'll be sitting on it) I can cast Animal Growth on it... Large air elemental with animal growth? yes please.
Not quite. Any spell you can cast on yourself or with a target of "You" you can share with your companion, regardless of type. So unless you can cast Animal Growth on yourself (like a 3.0 wild shaped druid can), you're out of luck.
So does that mean that you can use the spell Enlarge Person on your Elemental Companion with Shared Spell?
Probably, but the spell would have no effect since the elemental is not of the humanoid type.
The earth elemental is just potentially broken. Lets say the party is about to enter a dungeon. I would have my elemental companion use earth glide to scout out the entire dungeon. Perfect knowledge of the layout, what foes/hazards abound etc. :P
Probably, but the spell would have no effect since the elemental is not of the humanoid type.
Read it again: "Any spell you can cast on yourself or with a target of "You" you can share with your companion, regardless of type." So yes, if you are a druid who can cast Enlarge Person on yourself, then you can have that spell affect your companion (animal, elemental, whatever).
I agree; if you do a lot of underground adventuring, the earth elemental is pretty darn good.
Share Spells
At the master’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts on himself also affect his familiar. The familiar must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit.
If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. Additionally, the master may cast a spell with a target of "You" on his familiar (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself.
A master and his familiar can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the familiar’s type (magical beast).
bold emphasis mine - so yes, along with mage armor, fearsome grapple etc...
But move you're familiar more then 5' away and 'poof' gone if its shared, but you can cast it directly on the familiar! and it will last as normal.
The elemental speaks, so it can use wands. If your DM allows you to fine-tune the skill points of your elemental companion (and why not? don't you raise you elemental the same way as you do your animal?), then elemental is a clear winner.
Just...think about the possibility here.
Arcane Heriophant lets you have an animal companion with the full bonuses of you familiar. Share spell works even if you can't normally affect the familiar, but it can work on you. However, you need to be within 5' at all times.
[drum roll please]
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Riding an air elemental keeps you within 5' of it at all times.
Share spells to the max.