Supplement
More Guidance
Sample PCs: Look for CantripN - 1 & 2
In short, you can be much better than him, since you're also a Wizard and get better and more versatile spells. Your DC can well be much higher, too.
Example:
Silverbrow Human Enchanter 3 / Master Specialist 1 / Incarnate 1 / Soulcaster 1 / Nightmare Spinner (Enchantment Adaptation) 1 / Soulcaster +7 / Fatespinner 4 / Master Specialist +2
Feats:
(With Flaws: Tattoo Focus, Shadow Weave Magic)
H - Spell Focus (Enchantment)
1 - Shape Soulmeld (Charming Veil)
1B - Improved Initiative
3 - Incarnum Spellshaping
4B - Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
6 - Leadership
9 - Draconic Aura (Energy, Cold)
12 - Snowcasting
15 - Cold Focus
18 - G. Cold Focus
20B - G. Spell Focus (Enchantment)
That's a DC of 10 + 12 (Int. Mod) + 5 (Charming Veil) + 2 (G. Spell Focus) + 6 (Draconic Aura, G. Cold Focus) + 2 (Arcane Investment) + 4 (Spin Fate) + 2 (Veil of Allure) + 1-9 (Spell Level), before (most) items and spells.
Oh, and you can affect ANYTHING, even those normally immune.
That's DC 52 for 9th level spells. Just so you get it, you can Dominate a Solar, Balor, Pit Fiend, Pit Fiend, Titan or even the Tarrasque with only about 5% chance of failure. That's so high, you can get even a Gibbering Orb, Gloom, Ha-Naga, Hagunemnon (Protean) or a Prismasaurus. About the only things you cannot get are an Elder Titan or an Uvuudaum (at least without aid or extra effort).
You can raise this by 1 or more by giving up Leadership (not worth it, though) or by having 2 Flaws (and taking Tattoo Focus & Shadow Weave Magic for a net +2 DC, as well as other perks).
It's also possible to have a Cohort that nets up to -12 to Saves, before Doomspeak. Including Doomspeak, that's -22. And there's Limited Wish for -7 to Saves. So that's a net -29, for an equivelent of about 81 DC. With items (Barbs of Retribution, Band of Spell Enhancement, Amulet of Second Chances), we can get about 82, and a Reroll (thrice) at DC 87.
Without the ally (and just Limited Wish on your part), that's still DC 60 and a Reroll (thrice) at DC 65, likely to take down even the dreaded Elder Titan.
With Flaws added, that's DC 62/67/67/67. Completely impossible for anything.
I'm not accounting for Leadership here, so you can consider the DC 1 point higher without it, or a LOT higher with it.
That's a DC of 10 + 12 (Int. Mod) + 5 (Charming Veil) + 2 (G. Spell Focus) + 6 (Draconic Aura, G. Cold Focus) + 2 (Arcane Investment) + 4 (Spin Fate) + 2 (Veil of Allure) + 1-9 (Spell Level), before (most) items and spells.
Oh, and you can affect ANYTHING, even those normally immune.
That's DC 52 for 9th level spells. Just so you get it, you can Dominate a Solar, Balor, Pit Fiend, Pit Fiend, Titan or even the Tarrasque with only about 5% chance of failure. That's so high, you can get even a Gibbering Orb, Gloom, Ha-Naga, Hagunemnon (Protean) or a Prismasaurus. About the only things you cannot get are an Elder Titan or an Uvuudaum (at least without aid or extra effort).
I'm sort of stumped on how you bypass mind immunity aspect. It could very well be that I'm rolling nat 1's on my spot check, but the only thing that resembles that possibility is the Nightmare spinner, unless you houserule it to enchanting.
I'm sort of stumped on how you bypass mind immunity aspect. It could very well be that I'm rolling nat 1's on my spot check, but the only thing that resembles that possibility is the Nightmare spinner, unless you houserule it to enchanting.
That's right, it's because of Nightmare Spinner. The Adaptation, as written, lets you ignore immunity to Mind-Affecting.
Edit: After reading the adaptation, it seems logical that one should take all 5 levels to achieve the 'enchant anyone' ability.
Wow, fast reply, thanks CantripN.
Edit: After reading the adaptation, it seems logical that one should take all 5 levels to achieve the 'enchant anyone' ability.
That's possible, and completely up to the DM. If that's the case, get rid of Fatespinner and delay Incarnate & Soulcaster.
Losing 4 DC/day and forcing a single Reroll is well worth this ability (and it's not like Nightmare Spinner is devoid of Class Features).
Example:
Silverbrow Human Enchanter 3 / Master Specialist 2 / Nightmare Spinner (Enchantment Adaptation) 5 / Master Specialist +1 / Incarnate 1 / Soulcaster 8
Feats:
(With Flaws: Tattoo Focus, Shadow Weave Magic)
H - Spell Focus (Enchantment)
1 - Shape Soulmeld (Charming Veil)
1B - Improved Initiative
3 - Incarnum Spellshaping
4B - Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
6 - Leadership
9 - Draconic Aura (Energy, Cold)
11B - G. Spell Focus (Enchantment)
12 - Snowcasting
15 - Cold Focus
18 - G. Cold Focus
Edit: Just another thought, but what do you think about how this build would interact with something with an immunity to the enchantment school of magic (aka charm++).
And the Leadership is for something like a Hexblade 4 / Paladin of Tyranny 4 / Binder X, for the huge penalty to enemies saves and a semi-decent bodyguard.
@alastor: the build CantripN (i just got the phonetics lol) is a great example of an enchanter, and I think you should go with it. If your DM doesn't want to let the adapted NS fly, I'd say replace it with the telepathy prc, for directing your minions easier.
The wizard's powers of domination will eventually eclipse those of the psion/thrallherd, but for several levels he will be behind in this specific area. Now of course, he is still a wizard...
Also, you might well trade Leadership for Mindsight. Both are very good.
Thanks.
Enchanter Handbook
Supplement
More Guidance
Sample PCs: Look for CantripN - 1 & 2
In short, you can be much better than him, since you're also a Wizard and get better and more versatile spells. Your DC can well be much higher, too.
Example:
Silverbrow Human Enchanter 3 / Master Specialist 1 / Incarnate 1 / Soulcaster 1 / Nightmare Spinner (Enchantment Adaptation) 1 / Soulcaster +7 / Fatespinner 4 / Master Specialist +2
Feats:
(With Flaws: Tattoo Focus, Shadow Weave Magic)
H - Spell Focus (Enchantment)
1 - Shape Soulmeld (Charming Veil)
1B - Improved Initiative
3 - Incarnum Spellshaping
4B - Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
6 - Leadership
9 - Draconic Aura (Energy, Cold)
12 - Snowcasting
15 - Cold Focus
18 - G. Cold Focus
20B - G. Spell Focus (Enchantment)
I ran the build by my DM and he said its a little too power gamed
. So it looks like I'll have to cut leadership and the Nightmare Spinner variant. I may also have to lose the incarnum as well. I'm still checking on that to be 100% sure. I'm not too familiar with the snowcasting combo. Why do you need to be a silverbrow?Silverbrow is to get the dragonblooded subtype, which makes the Draconic Aura more powerful. Personally I've always found that the Cold Enchanter combo was great CO but a bit ridiculous so I'd drop it (he didn't fit Eschew Materials in there either so you'd have to use spells to produce snow)
CantripN gave you a very optimized build - you can safely drop a few feats and remain quite powerful.
Silverbrow is to get the dragonblooded subtype, which makes the Draconic Aura more powerful. Personally I've always found that the Cold Enchanter combo was great CO but a bit ridiculous so I'd drop it (he didn't fit Eschew Materials in there either so you'd have to use spells to produce snow)
Thanks for the help. My DM has mentioned a few times now that I could do this build as a beguiler to save myself the headache of preparing spells. Its not a problem for me (he likes sorcerers more). What do you guys think of that idea?
Thanks for the help. My DM has mentioned a few times now that I could do this build as a beguiler to save myself the headache of preparing spells. Its not a problem for me (he likes sorcerers more). What do you guys think of that idea?
Short answer: no
Long Answer: Hell no
Preparing spells is a GOOD thing. If you don't want the hassle of preparing spells, just make a list and don't change it. Most likely you will probably happen upon a time when you can switch out spells and be grateful for it, as well as the sexy Shapechange/Gate/Wish/Timestop spells Beguilers don't get. Stay wizard.
Long answer: talk a bit with your DM. How long does he think the campaign will be ? How fast will you progress ?
Beguilers are as efficient and much more fun than wizards for the 1st few levels, but they fall behind fairly quickly in power. Not that it's a big deal, they're still full casters.
(They do get Time Stop by the way, but not the others 'tis true.)
Your Beguiler will excel at social skills which is a plus, but it doesn't have all the wizard options that would allow you to fully compete with the Telepath when it comes to Enchantment spells.
Discuss with your DM to see if for instance he'd allow Beguilers to go into Master Specialist (they're pretty much Enchantment and Illusion specialists from the start !), for instance, and if he'd let you modify the Beguiler spell list slightly (to benefit from good spells in the Spell Compendium or other splatbooks).
The other point to consider is that, while a wizard is powerful, it takes some experience to wield that power correctly. It's a fun learning experience, but you may prefer the more forgiving Beguiler.
Also, you're not much worse for wear without the Nightmare Spinner; Sure, you can't affect some people (but it's not like you could get anyone anyway, what with Mindless things), but you get back 1 level of Spellcasting - so you're a better Wizard. The Soulcaster isn't a must, but it's either that or the Snowcasting (I suggest Soulcaster for being the more reasonable option), and the MS isn't really a PrC - it's just what Specialists do (hell, it's written such that's it's a crime not to take it).
Losing Draconic Aura lets you be an Azurin (MoI) for a nice +1 DC.
Charming Veil
Descriptor: None
Classes: Incarnate, Soulborn
Chakra: Brow
Saving Throw: None
You create a wispy veil that sparkles in the slightest breeze, but seems to vanish in stillness. When you manifest a charm or compulsion power, tendrils of incarnum writhe and sparkle, enhancing the effects.
You can pull energy into your charm and compulsion powers, reinforcing the power with the power of incarnum. While worn, you gain a +1 insight bonus on the save DCs of your charm and compulsion powers and psi-like abilities.
Essentia: For every point of essentia you invest into your charming veil, you increase the save DC by +1.
Notice that it's not limited to Enchantment, as some other schools feature those descriptors.
Enchantment / Necromancy are what I would choose.
You'd ban Enchantment.
On an Enchanter.
Other than evocation what school or schools if I focus spec should I give up?
Necromancy, and probably Abjuration (although that one can really hurt).
I'll have you know that at higher levels, though, the problem will be not that you've lost Abjuration/Illusion alone. No, the main problem will be that you'll want to cast more non-Enchantment spells, and simply won't have the slots. After all, lower level slots go go to utility and misc. spells, and you won't have nearly as many as you'd like.
In short, I don't suggest taking the Focused Specialist unless you stick to low levels.
1) Heighten spell
When playing enchantment or illusion, this feat is a must to keep your spells without escalating tiers (ie. charm to dominate) relevant at higher levels.
2) Snowcasting
Snowcasting (see frostburn) suck-didly-ucks without eschew material. Without eschew, a natural snow component is required to use the feat. Consequently, many of the feats used in this build will be irrelevant unless you happen to be wandering the arctic wasteland. Secondly, if said snow is even available, a move action is required to incorporate the component into the spell, which limits the characters combat mobility, which I hope we can agree is bad.
In short, eschew material is a must for this build.
3) Using the enchanter
Even aside from the fact that Unearthed Arcana gives me the willies, I think that the sorcerer would be a better choose for this build, but let me explain why. For the four level investment you get to add social skills to your class skill list and extend enchantment spells a limited number of times per day at the price of two schools of magic. So far as creating thralls is concerned, the spell durations are in terms of days; extend spell seems to be of marginal value. The social skills can be snagged with a quick dip into mindbender with the added bonus of a fort bonus and telepathy.
However, with the sorcerer, you can achieve something not easily emulated; as of complete champion, a sorcerer may choose to forgo learning a spell of each spell level level throughout his or her career to gain a domain, which in turn adds a spell of each level to the sorcerer class list. In this case, I believe that the domination domain would be the best choice in that it has a couple really nifty features. Firstly, as far as my knowledge, is the only way the add the true domination and monstrous thrall spells to an arcane caster's spell list while still using your primary casting stat to determine the difficulty of the save (if you're unfamiliar with those spells I highly suggest you check them out before building any enchanter in a high level environment). You snag dominate person a level early as a bonus. Aside from that, the domination domain also grants spell focus enchantment as a bonus feat! Total win :D
4) Charming veil
You do a couple optimization somersaults to really have the essentia available to power charming veil but I think you may have been hasty. Charming veil improves the dc's of powers and psi-like abilities... but we're dealing in spells. I don't think that works...
a sample build for funnsies
Sorcerer 6/elemental savant 10/fate spinner 3/mindbender 1 (not ordered)
Silverbrow human
Feats
1) eschew materials
H) snow casting (FB)
S1) draconic heritage: silver (dragonblood racial substitution) (RODr)
3) draconic power (RODr) (+1 caster level and dc of cold spells)
S5) spell focus: enchantment (Domain access alternate class feature) (CC)
6) energy substitution: cold (CA)
9) draconic aura: energy: cold (DM) (scalling dc bonus on cold spells)
12) cold focus (FB) (+1 dc on cold spells)
15) greater cold focus (FB) (and additional +1 dc on cold spells)
18) greater spell focus: enchantment (FB)
Before items, the dc of a spell from any school has a +9 modifier and enchantment is sitting pretty with a +11 modifier
A few things of note...
1) Heighten spell
When playing enchantment or illusion, this feat is a must to keep your spells without escalating tiers (ie. charm to dominate) relevant at higher levels.
2) Snowcasting
Snowcasting (see frostburn) suck-didly-ucks without eschew material. Without eschew, a natural snow component is required to use the feat. Consequently, many of the feats used in this build will be irrelevant unless you happen to be wandering the arctic wasteland. Secondly, if said snow is even available, a move action is required to incorporate the component into the spell, which limits the characters combat mobility, which I hope we can agree is bad.
In short, eschew material is a must for this build.
3) Using the enchanter
Even aside from the fact that Unearthed Arcana gives me the willies, I think that the sorcerer would be a better choose for this build, but let me explain why. For the four level investment you get to add social skills to your class skill list and extend enchantment spells a limited number of times per day at the price of two schools of magic. So far as creating thralls is concerned, the spell durations are in terms of days; extend spell seems to be of marginal value. The social skills can be snagged with a quick dip into mindbender with the added bonus of a fort bonus and telepathy.
However, with the sorcerer, you can achieve something not easily emulated; as of complete champion, a sorcerer may choose to forgo learning a spell of each spell level level throughout his or her career to gain a domain, which in turn adds a spell of each level to the sorcerer class list. In this case, I believe that the domination domain would be the best choice in that it has a couple really nifty features. Firstly, as far as my knowledge, is the only way the add the true domination and monstrous thrall spells to an arcane caster's spell list while still using your primary casting stat to determine the difficulty of the save (if you're unfamiliar with those spells I highly suggest you check them out before building any enchanter in a high level environment). You snag dominate person a level early as a bonus. Aside from that, the domination domain also grants spell focus enchantment as a bonus feat! Total win :D
4) Charming veil
You do a couple optimization somersaults to really have the essentia available to power charming veil but I think you may have been hasty. Charming veil improves the dc's of powers and psi-like abilities... but we're dealing in spells. I don't think that works...
a sample build for funnsies
Sorcerer 6/elemental savant 10/fate spinner 3/mindbender 1 (not ordered)
Silverbrow human
Feats
1) eschew materials
H) snow casting (FB)
S1) draconic heritage: silver (dragonblood racial substitution) (RODr)
3) draconic power (RODr) (+1 caster level and dc of cold spells)
S5) spell focus: enchantment (Domain access alternate class feature) (CC)
6) energy substitution: cold (CA)
9) draconic aura: energy: cold (DM) (scalling dc bonus on cold spells)
12) cold focus (FB) (+1 dc on cold spells)
15) greater cold focus (FB) (and additional +1 dc on cold spells)
18) greater spell focus: enchantment (FB)
Before items, the dc of a spell from any school has a +9 modifier and enchantment is sitting pretty with a +11 modifier
Not a bad build. I just hate losing caster levels for sorcerers. Only having one 9th level spell hurts higher casting. Sure I only need one spell to fully dominate and have a thrall but having that as my only high level option hurts the build to a certain extent.