Energy Substitution + Initiate of Amaunator - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Energy Substitution + Initiate of Amaunator

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
boombrakh
Dec 21, 2008 14:29:09 The description on the Energy Substition feat states that "The spell's descriptor changes to the new energy type" and Initiate of Amaunator states that "You can spontaneously cast any spell on your spell list that has the fire descriptor." Is also says that "This ability works like spontaneously casting cure spells does.".

Just so I don't spend way too much time into this to realize im way off, does that mean that every spell I have on my spell list as a cleric that i've modified and memorized with the Energy Substitution feat becomes a spell I can cast spontaneously?

Thank you.
#2
idontmuchcareforit
Dec 21, 2008 20:02:30 I'm not sure how legitimate it is to substitute an energy type for a spell if it doesn't have one to begin with. It's pretty clear that you could do it for say... lightning bolt... whether or not you could do it with "knock" is a little less clear...

I think that if there's going to be a problem with your plan it will lie there.
#3
unundindur
Dec 21, 2008 23:04:04 I think its fair since there is a lv adjustment involved. Cast dispel magic at lv 3, or cast is spontaneously at level 4? Sounds good, but not crazy.
#4
phaedrusxy
Dec 22, 2008 0:02:32 You can't even use Energy Substitution on a spell that doesn't do energy damage of some kind to start with. So no spontaneous fiery Dispel Magic. You could do it with Lightning Bolt and similiar spells, though. And if you use Born of the Three Thunders or something to add energy damage, you could then do it with just about anything.
#5
boombrakh
Dec 22, 2008 0:32:39
I'm not sure how legitimate it is to substitute an energy type for a spell if it doesn't have one to begin with. It's pretty clear that you could do it for say... lightning bolt... whether or not you could do it with "knock" is a little less clear...

I think that if there's going to be a problem with your plan it will lie there.

I should have been a bit more elaborate and stated "...every spell with an energy descriptor I have on my spell list... instead. The feat Energy Substitution can only be used on Energy spells so that's all cleared up.

I think its fair since there is a lv adjustment involved. Cast dispel magic at lv 3, or cast is spontaneously at level 4? Sounds good, but not crazy.

The level of the spell doesn't change. It is a Level +0 Metamagic Feat.

You can't even use Energy Substitution on a spell that doesn't do energy damage of some kind to start with. So no spontaneous fiery Dispel Magic. You could do it with Lightning Bolt and similiar spells, though. And if you use Born of the Three Thunders or something to add energy damage, you could then do it with just about anything.

I checked the Born of the Three Thunders and sadly it only works on spells which already have an energy descriptor. You hinted to the fact that there might be other feats out there which add an Energy descriptor. I've been checking around in my books but since I don't really know where to start looking, it's like finding a needle in a haystack. Oh, and since I will be casting these spells spontaneously just like i do cure spells, does that means that as long as I don't cast my memorized fire spell, i can keep swapping out spells for it?

Generally a good response and I am happy to start diving into building a Cleric of Amanuator who summons Fire Monsters using the "Conjure Ice Beast" spell and whatnot. Now, there is an npc in "Powers of Faerûn" on page 59 who is not only a Fire Genasi, but an "Elite" Fire Genasi. Anyone got any idea on what that is?
#6
nebelmond
Dec 22, 2008 2:29:10 Initiate quite clearly says 'Spell on your spelllist'. Metamagic does not change the spell on your spelllist, but the spell as you have memorized it. Therefore I would say that your idea does not work at all.
#7
boombrakh
Dec 22, 2008 6:26:26
Initiate quite clearly says 'Spell on your spelllist'. Metamagic does not change the spell on your spelllist, but the spell as you have memorized it. Therefore I would say that your idea does not work at all.

Couldn't it be argued that my spell list could be either or both of the two? (both list on paper and list memorized)
#8
phaedrusxy
Dec 22, 2008 9:11:16 You know, I'm going to have to agree with Nebelmond. If it isn't prepared as a Fire spell, then it isn't one. So this combo won't work. I didn't really think about it before.
#9
boombrakh
Dec 22, 2008 9:55:55 I chuckled lightly at the realization that when PhaedrusXY said it was so I simply just took it as the 11th commendment and was fine with it. It saddens me tho that I can't find a way to get the most out of the Initiate of Amaunator feat because that handful of spells with the [FIRE] descriptor in the Clerics spell list.

I guess that your name holds some weight, eh? ;)
#10
phaedrusxy
Dec 22, 2008 11:37:39 Hmm... maybe Elemental Savant + Initiate of Amaunator would work? Make sure to take Searing Spell, so you don't get screwed by resistances and immunities to fire. I guess it is still debateable if this is RAW or not, but I think some DMs might let it fly.
#11
ChristopherGroves
Dec 22, 2008 11:40:43 Or a level in Paragnostic Apostle ... since the Initiate of Kord-Amaunator won't fly in mot games ...
#12
phaedrusxy
Dec 22, 2008 11:46:13
Or a level in Paragnostic Apostle ... since the Initiate of Kord-Amaunator won't fly in mot games ...

I ninja-edited you. :D I don't think he needs the Sanctified One of Kord to pull this off. Searing Spell should do it.
#13
ChristopherGroves
Dec 22, 2008 11:58:19 Hahah ... love the ninja editors!
#14
deathwishjoe
Dec 22, 2008 12:12:09 The feats eschew materials (core) and Snow casting (Frostburn) would allow you to essentially for free add the cold subtype to spells and then add anergy sub to make it fire. However I feel its up to GM interpretation as to wether or not you get to spontaneously cast all your spells
#15
boombrakh
Dec 24, 2008 15:36:08 Thank you for all replies in this thread.

Merry Christmas to all of you!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 boombrakh Dec 21, 2008 14:29:09	The description on the Energy Substition feat states that "The spell's descriptor changes to the new energy type" and Initiate of Amaunator states that "You can spontaneously cast any spell on your spell list that has the fire descriptor." Is also says that "This ability works like spontaneously casting cure spells does.". Just so I don't spend way too much time into this to realize im way off, does that mean that every spell I have on my spell list as a cleric that i've modified and memorized with the Energy Substitution feat becomes a spell I can cast spontaneously? Thank you.
#2 idontmuchcareforit Dec 21, 2008 20:02:30	I'm not sure how legitimate it is to substitute an energy type for a spell if it doesn't have one to begin with. It's pretty clear that you could do it for say... lightning bolt... whether or not you could do it with "knock" is a little less clear... I think that if there's going to be a problem with your plan it will lie there.
#3 unundindur Dec 21, 2008 23:04:04	I think its fair since there is a lv adjustment involved. Cast dispel magic at lv 3, or cast is spontaneously at level 4? Sounds good, but not crazy.
#4 phaedrusxy Dec 22, 2008 0:02:32	You can't even use Energy Substitution on a spell that doesn't do energy damage of some kind to start with. So no spontaneous fiery Dispel Magic. You could do it with Lightning Bolt and similiar spells, though. And if you use Born of the Three Thunders or something to add energy damage, you could then do it with just about anything.
#5 boombrakh Dec 22, 2008 0:32:39	I'm not sure how legitimate it is to substitute an energy type for a spell if it doesn't have one to begin with. It's pretty clear that you could do it for say... lightning bolt... whether or not you could do it with "knock" is a little less clear... I think that if there's going to be a problem with your plan it will lie there. I should have been a bit more elaborate and stated "...every spell with an energy descriptor I have on my spell list... instead. The feat Energy Substitution can only be used on Energy spells so that's all cleared up. I think its fair since there is a lv adjustment involved. Cast dispel magic at lv 3, or cast is spontaneously at level 4? Sounds good, but not crazy. The level of the spell doesn't change. It is a Level +0 Metamagic Feat. You can't even use Energy Substitution on a spell that doesn't do energy damage of some kind to start with. So no spontaneous fiery Dispel Magic. You could do it with Lightning Bolt and similiar spells, though. And if you use Born of the Three Thunders or something to add energy damage, you could then do it with just about anything. I checked the Born of the Three Thunders and sadly it only works on spells which already have an energy descriptor. You hinted to the fact that there might be other feats out there which add an Energy descriptor. I've been checking around in my books but since I don't really know where to start looking, it's like finding a needle in a haystack. Oh, and since I will be casting these spells spontaneously just like i do cure spells, does that means that as long as I don't cast my memorized fire spell, i can keep swapping out spells for it? Generally a good response and I am happy to start diving into building a Cleric of Amanuator who summons Fire Monsters using the "Conjure Ice Beast" spell and whatnot. Now, there is an npc in "Powers of Faerûn" on page 59 who is not only a Fire Genasi, but an "Elite" Fire Genasi. Anyone got any idea on what that is?
#6 nebelmond Dec 22, 2008 2:29:10	Initiate quite clearly says 'Spell on your spelllist'. Metamagic does not change the spell on your spelllist, but the spell as you have memorized it. Therefore I would say that your idea does not work at all.
#7 boombrakh Dec 22, 2008 6:26:26	Initiate quite clearly says 'Spell on your spelllist'. Metamagic does not change the spell on your spelllist, but the spell as you have memorized it. Therefore I would say that your idea does not work at all. Couldn't it be argued that my spell list could be either or both of the two? (both list on paper and list memorized)
#8 phaedrusxy Dec 22, 2008 9:11:16	You know, I'm going to have to agree with Nebelmond. If it isn't prepared as a Fire spell, then it isn't one. So this combo won't work. I didn't really think about it before.
#9 boombrakh Dec 22, 2008 9:55:55	I chuckled lightly at the realization that when PhaedrusXY said it was so I simply just took it as the 11th commendment and was fine with it. It saddens me tho that I can't find a way to get the most out of the Initiate of Amaunator feat because that handful of spells with the [FIRE] descriptor in the Clerics spell list. I guess that your name holds some weight, eh? ;)
#10 phaedrusxy Dec 22, 2008 11:37:39	Hmm... maybe Elemental Savant + Initiate of Amaunator would work? Make sure to take Searing Spell, so you don't get screwed by resistances and immunities to fire. I guess it is still debateable if this is RAW or not, but I think some DMs might let it fly.
#11 ChristopherGroves Dec 22, 2008 11:40:43	Or a level in Paragnostic Apostle ... since the Initiate of Kord-Amaunator won't fly in mot games ...
#12 phaedrusxy Dec 22, 2008 11:46:13	Or a level in Paragnostic Apostle ... since the Initiate of Kord-Amaunator won't fly in mot games ... I ninja-edited you. :D I don't think he needs the Sanctified One of Kord to pull this off. Searing Spell should do it.
#13 ChristopherGroves Dec 22, 2008 11:58:19	Hahah ... love the ninja editors!
#14 deathwishjoe Dec 22, 2008 12:12:09	The feats eschew materials (core) and Snow casting (Frostburn) would allow you to essentially for free add the cold subtype to spells and then add anergy sub to make it fire. However I feel its up to GM interpretation as to wether or not you get to spontaneously cast all your spells
#15 boombrakh Dec 24, 2008 15:36:08	Thank you for all replies in this thread. Merry Christmas to all of you!