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Enheightened Demonologist

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
BloodDragon
Mar 03, 2009 16:15:00 Reading the Demonologist in Book of Vile Darkness because I'm determined to find uses for unloved classes.

I read it's main feature:
Demonologist, Book of Vile Darkness wrote:
#2
jameswilliamogle
Mar 03, 2009 17:12:56 "Devil of an idea" lolz!

How about this weirdness?
"I Swear Allegiance to the Blight"
Sorcerer 6 / Ex-Druid 1 / Demonologist 3 / Blighter 1 / Mystic Theurge 9 (hah!)
L15 Sorcerous casting
L3 Demonologist casting
L10 Blighter casting

1 Versatile Spellcaster, Evil Brand
3 Sacrificial Mastery
5 Malign Spell
6 Heighten Spell
9 Repeat Spell
12 Twin Spell
15 Residual Metamagic
18 Eh, I dunno... The spell lists aren't that good...

The trick? First use Versatile/Heighten to boost up a Sorcerer Summons to L3 to get into Demonologist, then use Versatile/Heighten to boost up a Druid spell to L3 to get into Blighter, then advance whatever you want! On top of that, Versatile Spellcaster can be used with the tons of spells to cross-cast Heightened Summons. Use 2 L6 Sorcerer slots to cast a Summon Monster 7 (Heightened from the Demonologist list) and end up with a L9 Summons. Blow two L7 spells (one from Blighter, one from Sorcerer) to cast a Twinned Summon Monster 7. Use Residual Metamagic to get two more the following round. Fun!

*****

Twinned / Repeated Summons might actually be worth it for the fancy-pants Demonologist (with Residual Metamagic, heck yeah).

******
Naenhoon Illumian Dread Necromancers can get pretty potent Summons out of this: use the daily pseudo-DMM to Heighten stuff way beyond the normal limit.

*******
Earth Spell does the same, though its just +1 (still, thats nice).

*******
I still want a Nar Demonbinder / Demonologist hybrid; the details are eluding me, though.
#3
jameswilliamogle
Mar 03, 2009 17:54:09 One other thing to note: subjugating yourself to an elder evil will get you two of the bonus feats - one at 1st, one at 5th, which will make a lot of builds much easier to do.
#4
phaedrusxy
Apr 02, 2009 13:40:02 I would definitely try go to into Nar Demonbinder or Ur-Priest. This is a very good idea, but the CL losses from Demonologist hurt a lot. Going into a fast progression class would give this a big boost. Hell, you could even do a Nar-Ur-Priest. They do share Iron Will as a prereq, and you're going to want SF: Conjuration anyway, to get Augment Summons. And I think the BoVD Ur-Priest also required Malign Spell Focus, didn't it? (Which was changed to SF: Evil in CDiv, but should be considered the same feat, since it is just an update).

Malconvoker is something else to consider, but I think there would be an alignment conflict without houseruling it (which is common, I think).

I'd probably go with something like James' entry, and take Earth Spell later, since it is 1 feat cheaper, and this build is very feat starved.
#5
hijaxx
Apr 02, 2009 14:40:03 Nur Demonologist
illumian dread necromancer 4/ur-priest 2/demonologist 3/nar demonbinder 2/mystic theurge x
uses illumian pseudoheighten and favored+primary contact to qualifi for ur-priest. when binding demons uses charm demon to help with persuading them. also have a quasit familiar (demonologist), AND an imp familiar (nar).
also a wierd thing i noticed abou the nar. it says: prepares and casts as sorcerers, but sorcerers dont prepare .
this is probably not optimal, but its all i could figure out right now.
#6
surreal
Apr 02, 2009 17:34:09 I feel like there should be a way to work Ultimate Magus into there somehow...
#7
jameswilliamogle
Apr 02, 2009 18:35:26
I feel like there should be a way to work Ultimate Magus into there somehow...

Maybe...

"Devoted to the Worm that Walks"
Human
Wizard 5 / Demonologist 3 / Ultimate Magus 7 / Shadowcraft Mage 5
1,b,b Iron Will, Evil Brand, Malign Spell
3 Spell Focus: Illusion
5 Heighten Spell
6 Earth Spell
9 Spell Focus: Conjuration
12 Residual Metamagic
15 Augment Summoning
18 Improved Initiative

Tons of tricks, hits 9th level spells pre-epic, can cast a Summon Monster 6 spell at L8. Not so bad...

*********************************************
I don't like the hiccup that the Demonologist introduces though, personally. I think I'd prefer an early entry fast-casting trick...

OH! Sublime Chord needs 3rd level spells, and you get that in 3 Demonologist levels!

Bard 1 / Binder 4 / Demonologist 3 / Bloodline 2 / Sublime Chord 1 / Anima Mage 9

EBL 17 (up to 3 L8 vestiges), Casting at L10 SC, L3 Demonologist, L1 Bard, BAB +8 (teh suck)

Use Versatile Spellcasting + Heighten Spell so you don't have to waste SC spellslots on Summons. Precocious Apprentice seems necessary for Summon Monster for Demonologist, but thats OK.
#8
phaedrusxy
Apr 02, 2009 23:40:55 Oh my god that last one is insane, James. Kind of a slow starter for your main tricks, but should be useful at all levels. It will just change what it does. :D

Can you apply Vestige Metamagic to Heighten Spell? If so, free SM 9 (x2 with Residual Magic). :D You could probably even Twin it...

Of course, the SCM can do the same thing w/o Demonologist. :P
#9
CantripN
Apr 02, 2009 23:48:32 Thing is, Demonologist doesn't lose any abilities when it becomes Good, doesn't it? Same for Malconvoker.

So why NOT do a Demonologist / Malconvoker ?
#10
hijaxx
Apr 03, 2009 8:16:34 Even though i have seen the light, i can not deny the power of darkness
--Heinrich the enlightened
human binder 1/wizard 1/anima mage 4/demonologist 3/nar demonbinder 2/malconvoker 6/anima mage 2

2 flaws (any):bind vestige, improved bind vestige
human: precocious apprentice
1 heighten spell
#11
hijaxx
Apr 03, 2009 8:19:37 double post
#12
BloodDragon
Apr 03, 2009 10:37:07
Thing is, Demonologist doesn't lose any abilities when it becomes Good, doesn't it? Same for Malconvoker.

So why NOT do a Demonologist / Malconvoker ?

I was under the impression that Malconvoker did. If that's the case open the gates.... hell's gates. :D

Something like: Wizard or Sor 6/Demonologist 3/Ur-priest 2/Malconvoker 5/ ... Mystic T 4.
Paranostic Apostle 1 / MT3 instead of just MT 4? For Call of Worlds.

and definetly take all those conjuration varient goodies.
#13
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Apr 03, 2009 10:45:43
One other thing to note: subjugating yourself to an elder evil will get you two of the bonus feats - one at 1st, one at 5th, which will make a lot of builds much easier to do.

My Search Fu has failed me... Page number, please?

Btw this rocks! Blighter can work now!
#14
hijaxx
Apr 03, 2009 10:52:28 no ability loss for evil malconvokers.
demonologist seems easier to qualifi for, so taking that first might be better. an evil malconvoker i LOADED with flavor, however.
#15
jameswilliamogle
Apr 03, 2009 11:48:34
My Search Fu has failed me... Page number, please?

I don't know the page number itself, but its just above the start of the Vile Feats section.

Blighter is just a joke entry - with Versatile Spellcaster and Heighten, they get L9 summons at ECL 15 (not an improvement over any of the other builds).
#16
hijaxx
Apr 03, 2009 12:13:38 since you request rivers of blood, bloodragon, here is another variant on the malconologist:
"i have attempted to tap into the power of evil to increase my own. But for the power of evil to function truly for one, he must BE evil
--Hcirnieh the corrupted
illumian(naenhoon) dread necromancer 6/malconvoker 2/demonologist 3/nar demonbinder 3/malconvoker 4
#17
surreal
Apr 04, 2009 1:46:55
Maybe...
I don't like the hiccup that the Demonologist introduces though, personally. I think I'd prefer an early entry fast-casting trick...

OH! Sublime Chord needs 3rd level spells, and you get that in 3 Demonologist levels!

Bard 1 / Binder 4 / Demonologist 3 / Bloodline 2 / Sublime Chord 1 / Anima Mage 9

EBL 17 (up to 3 L8 vestiges), Casting at L10 SC, L3 Demonologist, L1 Bard, BAB +8 (teh suck)

Use Versatile Spellcasting + Heighten Spell so you don't have to waste SC spellslots on Summons. Precocious Apprentice seems necessary for Summon Monster for Demonologist, but thats OK.

Bloodlines don't give hd/skill points do they? How are you meeting the skill prereqs for SC then?
#18
jameswilliamogle
Apr 04, 2009 7:01:53
Bloodlines don't give hd/skill points do they? How are you meeting the skill prereqs for SC then?

Take them at L3 & L7, I guess (they can be taken at any time; L10 should be a regular skill class). They do add to the max level, but skills would be tight regardless (making it a high Int high Cha build).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 BloodDragon Mar 03, 2009 16:15:00	Reading the Demonologist in Book of Vile Darkness because I'm determined to find uses for unloved classes. I read it's main feature: Demonologist, Book of Vile Darkness wrote:
#2 jameswilliamogle Mar 03, 2009 17:12:56	"Devil of an idea" lolz! How about this weirdness? "I Swear Allegiance to the Blight" Sorcerer 6 / Ex-Druid 1 / Demonologist 3 / Blighter 1 / Mystic Theurge 9 (hah!) L15 Sorcerous casting L3 Demonologist casting L10 Blighter casting 1 Versatile Spellcaster, Evil Brand 3 Sacrificial Mastery 5 Malign Spell 6 Heighten Spell 9 Repeat Spell 12 Twin Spell 15 Residual Metamagic 18 Eh, I dunno... The spell lists aren't that good... The trick? First use Versatile/Heighten to boost up a Sorcerer Summons to L3 to get into Demonologist, then use Versatile/Heighten to boost up a Druid spell to L3 to get into Blighter, then advance whatever you want! On top of that, Versatile Spellcaster can be used with the tons of spells to cross-cast Heightened Summons. Use 2 L6 Sorcerer slots to cast a Summon Monster 7 (Heightened from the Demonologist list) and end up with a L9 Summons. Blow two L7 spells (one from Blighter, one from Sorcerer) to cast a Twinned Summon Monster 7. Use Residual Metamagic to get two more the following round. Fun! *** Twinned / Repeated Summons might actually be worth it for the fancy-pants Demonologist (with Residual Metamagic, heck yeah). ** Naenhoon Illumian Dread Necromancers can get pretty potent Summons out of this: use the daily pseudo-DMM to Heighten stuff way beyond the normal limit. *** Earth Spell does the same, though its just +1 (still, thats nice). ***** I still want a Nar Demonbinder / Demonologist hybrid; the details are eluding me, though.
#3 jameswilliamogle Mar 03, 2009 17:54:09	One other thing to note: subjugating yourself to an elder evil will get you two of the bonus feats - one at 1st, one at 5th, which will make a lot of builds much easier to do.
#4 phaedrusxy Apr 02, 2009 13:40:02	I would definitely try go to into Nar Demonbinder or Ur-Priest. This is a very good idea, but the CL losses from Demonologist hurt a lot. Going into a fast progression class would give this a big boost. Hell, you could even do a Nar-Ur-Priest. They do share Iron Will as a prereq, and you're going to want SF: Conjuration anyway, to get Augment Summons. And I think the BoVD Ur-Priest also required Malign Spell Focus, didn't it? (Which was changed to SF: Evil in CDiv, but should be considered the same feat, since it is just an update). Malconvoker is something else to consider, but I think there would be an alignment conflict without houseruling it (which is common, I think). I'd probably go with something like James' entry, and take Earth Spell later, since it is 1 feat cheaper, and this build is very feat starved.
#5 hijaxx Apr 02, 2009 14:40:03	Nur Demonologist illumian dread necromancer 4/ur-priest 2/demonologist 3/nar demonbinder 2/mystic theurge x uses illumian pseudoheighten and favored+primary contact to qualifi for ur-priest. when binding demons uses charm demon to help with persuading them. also have a quasit familiar (demonologist), AND an imp familiar (nar). also a wierd thing i noticed abou the nar. it says: prepares and casts as sorcerers, but sorcerers dont prepare . this is probably not optimal, but its all i could figure out right now.
#6 surreal Apr 02, 2009 17:34:09	I feel like there should be a way to work Ultimate Magus into there somehow...
#7 jameswilliamogle Apr 02, 2009 18:35:26	I feel like there should be a way to work Ultimate Magus into there somehow... Maybe... "Devoted to the Worm that Walks" Human Wizard 5 / Demonologist 3 / Ultimate Magus 7 / Shadowcraft Mage 5 1,b,b Iron Will, Evil Brand, Malign Spell 3 Spell Focus: Illusion 5 Heighten Spell 6 Earth Spell 9 Spell Focus: Conjuration 12 Residual Metamagic 15 Augment Summoning 18 Improved Initiative Tons of tricks, hits 9th level spells pre-epic, can cast a Summon Monster 6 spell at L8. Not so bad... ********************************************* I don't like the hiccup that the Demonologist introduces though, personally. I think I'd prefer an early entry fast-casting trick... OH! Sublime Chord needs 3rd level spells, and you get that in 3 Demonologist levels! Bard 1 / Binder 4 / Demonologist 3 / Bloodline 2 / Sublime Chord 1 / Anima Mage 9 EBL 17 (up to 3 L8 vestiges), Casting at L10 SC, L3 Demonologist, L1 Bard, BAB +8 (teh suck) Use Versatile Spellcasting + Heighten Spell so you don't have to waste SC spellslots on Summons. Precocious Apprentice seems necessary for Summon Monster for Demonologist, but thats OK.
#8 phaedrusxy Apr 02, 2009 23:40:55	Oh my god that last one is insane, James. Kind of a slow starter for your main tricks, but should be useful at all levels. It will just change what it does. :D Can you apply Vestige Metamagic to Heighten Spell? If so, free SM 9 (x2 with Residual Magic). :D You could probably even Twin it... Of course, the SCM can do the same thing w/o Demonologist. :P
#9 CantripN Apr 02, 2009 23:48:32	Thing is, Demonologist doesn't lose any abilities when it becomes Good, doesn't it? Same for Malconvoker. So why NOT do a Demonologist / Malconvoker ?
#10 hijaxx Apr 03, 2009 8:16:34	Even though i have seen the light, i can not deny the power of darkness --Heinrich the enlightened human binder 1/wizard 1/anima mage 4/demonologist 3/nar demonbinder 2/malconvoker 6/anima mage 2 2 flaws (any):bind vestige, improved bind vestige human: precocious apprentice 1 heighten spell
#11 hijaxx Apr 03, 2009 8:19:37	double post
#12 BloodDragon Apr 03, 2009 10:37:07	Thing is, Demonologist doesn't lose any abilities when it becomes Good, doesn't it? Same for Malconvoker. So why NOT do a Demonologist / Malconvoker ? I was under the impression that Malconvoker did. If that's the case open the gates.... hell's gates. :D Something like: Wizard or Sor 6/Demonologist 3/Ur-priest 2/Malconvoker 5/ ... Mystic T 4. Paranostic Apostle 1 / MT3 instead of just MT 4? For Call of Worlds. and definetly take all those conjuration varient goodies.
#13 PlzBreakMyCampaign Apr 03, 2009 10:45:43	One other thing to note: subjugating yourself to an elder evil will get you two of the bonus feats - one at 1st, one at 5th, which will make a lot of builds much easier to do. My Search Fu has failed me... Page number, please? Btw this rocks! Blighter can work now!
#14 hijaxx Apr 03, 2009 10:52:28	no ability loss for evil malconvokers. demonologist seems easier to qualifi for, so taking that first might be better. an evil malconvoker i LOADED with flavor, however.
#15 jameswilliamogle Apr 03, 2009 11:48:34	My Search Fu has failed me... Page number, please? I don't know the page number itself, but its just above the start of the Vile Feats section. Blighter is just a joke entry - with Versatile Spellcaster and Heighten, they get L9 summons at ECL 15 (not an improvement over any of the other builds).
#16 hijaxx Apr 03, 2009 12:13:38	since you request rivers of blood, bloodragon, here is another variant on the malconologist: "i have attempted to tap into the power of evil to increase my own. But for the power of evil to function truly for one, he must BE evil --Hcirnieh the corrupted illumian(naenhoon) dread necromancer 6/malconvoker 2/demonologist 3/nar demonbinder 3/malconvoker 4
#17 surreal Apr 04, 2009 1:46:55	Maybe... I don't like the hiccup that the Demonologist introduces though, personally. I think I'd prefer an early entry fast-casting trick... OH! Sublime Chord needs 3rd level spells, and you get that in 3 Demonologist levels! Bard 1 / Binder 4 / Demonologist 3 / Bloodline 2 / Sublime Chord 1 / Anima Mage 9 EBL 17 (up to 3 L8 vestiges), Casting at L10 SC, L3 Demonologist, L1 Bard, BAB +8 (teh suck) Use Versatile Spellcasting + Heighten Spell so you don't have to waste SC spellslots on Summons. Precocious Apprentice seems necessary for Summon Monster for Demonologist, but thats OK. Bloodlines don't give hd/skill points do they? How are you meeting the skill prereqs for SC then?
#18 jameswilliamogle Apr 04, 2009 7:01:53	Bloodlines don't give hd/skill points do they? How are you meeting the skill prereqs for SC then? Take them at L3 & L7, I guess (they can be taken at any time; L10 should be a regular skill class). They do add to the max level, but skills would be tight regardless (making it a high Int high Cha build).