Enlightened Fist: Sorcerer or Battle Sorcerer for spells - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Enlightened Fist: Sorcerer or Battle Sorcerer for spells

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
x0_lt_0x
Mar 19, 2008 18:47:34 This is a really simple question.

Should i take sorcerer levels to become an Enlightened Fist,
or should I take Battle Sorcerer?

BTW, Ill probably end up putting up characters stats and build sometime in a few months, so watch out for it!
#2
sinfire_titan
Mar 19, 2008 18:51:43 Depends. Do you have CM? If so, regular Sorcerer. And as much of it as you can get.
#3
ninjarabbit
Mar 19, 2008 19:01:38 Sorcerer easy. The losses from battlesorcerer are too great if you're going to PrC out of it.
#4
x-codes
Mar 20, 2008 6:39:42
Sorcerer easy. The losses from battlesorcerer are too great if you're going to PrC out of it.

...and the boosts are not enough to justify being a plain battlesorcerer.

The Stalwart Sorcerer variant from Complete Mage isn't terrible, but it's nifty if you need a Martial Weapon Proficiency to get into a particular class, especially if you also throw in PrCs that expand your spells known.
#5
davethemagicweasel
Mar 20, 2008 6:43:04 Sorcerer

Battle Sorcerer is lame to begin with, but moreso for an Enlightened Fist who can't make use of the casting in armour and doesn't need the proficiencies.

Spells >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few hp and +1 BAB
#6
darkmatter20
Mar 20, 2008 8:05:49 Take sorcerer. Don't forget that Monks are proficient with the hand-axe (a martial weapon) and you can then also take abjurant champion. Main problem with enlightened fist is all the low and medium BAB classes adding up. If you can try and get your DM to use fractional save increases.

If your playing human with fractional the following build is ok

Monk1/Sorcerer1/Human paragon3/Enlightened fist 10/Abjurant champion5/

Taking Enlightened fist and abjurant champion in what-ever order you want once you have the requirements.

Since you may make a build the following is handy from one who tried it.

Ascetic Mage (very good)
Improved natural attack
Superior unarmed-strike
Practiced spellcaster
Spells
Bite of the were *animal* series for short buffs (SpC)
Greater mighty wallop (1hr/Lv) (SpC) ups size category for unarmed damage
Sharptooth, short buff (SpC)

Edit: Take a divine companion from complete champion to give yourself some healing and a sudden boost in combat that at Cl20 could give a +20 deflection bonus to AC and +20 resistance bonus to saves for 1min/Cl. Burns your slots out quick though and you can't take rapid metamagic since you already dumped your familiar.

This gets up to ~20D8 per punch at lv 20 and scales nicely with level past 8.
There are other ways of boosting this further in the monk damage size increases.
#7
phaxi
Mar 20, 2008 8:12:49
Spells
Bite of the were *animal* series for short buffs (SpC)
Greater mighty wallop (1hr/Lv) (SpC) ups size category for unarmed damage
Sharptooth, short buff (SpC)

wraithstrike

which also makes sorcerer better than battle sorcerer, you dont need the bab anyway.
#8
darkmatter20
Mar 20, 2008 9:50:12
wraithstrike

which also makes sorcerer better than battle sorcerer, you dont need the bab anyway.

Oh god yeah wraithstrike. I never consider that anymore since I advocated banning it from our game group since it is way too good for its level. Well if a gish has wraithstrike-power attack-leap attack-your choice of charging tactics and lions charge active can extremely high damage with only a small chance of missing.
Incidently I've been boycotting the polymorph line of spells as well. I tend to avoid save or die too so the party doesn't either A. doesn't think I'm unless if the enemy saves or B. feel totally useless if the enemy fails. Save or suck is not too bad and can still include the rest of the party.
#9
davethemagicweasel
Mar 20, 2008 9:57:47
wraithstrike

which also makes sorcerer better than battle sorcerer, you dont need the bab anyway.

And if you absolutely need BAB I'd still recommend Sorcerer and then pick up Arcane Disciple for Divine Power, with scrolls/custom runestaff/memento magica (if they work for AD?) to get more daily uses.

Or anything adapted from http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=984214
#10
phaxi
Mar 20, 2008 11:36:26
And if you absolutely need BAB I'd still recommend Sorcerer and then pick up Arcane Disciple for Divine Power, with scrolls/custom runestaff/memento magica (if they work for AD?) to get more daily uses.

Or anything adapted from http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=984214

Unfortunatly E. fists tend to have very very few feats to spare, but yea, battle sorcerer is pretty much useless here.

As for spells, Shivering Touch, Greater is nice, and gamebreaking if you're allowed to cast more than one with the use of Rapid Stunning.
#11
the_shaman
Mar 21, 2008 3:58:37 Another vote for regular sorcerer. Battle sorcerer gives proficiencies you don't need and a few more HP, but only for its levels - while the gimped progression stays for the rest of your casting levels too. Bad idea, overall.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 x0_lt_0x Mar 19, 2008 18:47:34	This is a really simple question. Should i take sorcerer levels to become an Enlightened Fist, or should I take Battle Sorcerer? BTW, Ill probably end up putting up characters stats and build sometime in a few months, so watch out for it!
#2 sinfire_titan Mar 19, 2008 18:51:43	Depends. Do you have CM? If so, regular Sorcerer. And as much of it as you can get.
#3 ninjarabbit Mar 19, 2008 19:01:38	Sorcerer easy. The losses from battlesorcerer are too great if you're going to PrC out of it.
#4 x-codes Mar 20, 2008 6:39:42	Sorcerer easy. The losses from battlesorcerer are too great if you're going to PrC out of it. ...and the boosts are not enough to justify being a plain battlesorcerer. The Stalwart Sorcerer variant from Complete Mage isn't terrible, but it's nifty if you need a Martial Weapon Proficiency to get into a particular class, especially if you also throw in PrCs that expand your spells known.
#5 davethemagicweasel Mar 20, 2008 6:43:04	Sorcerer Battle Sorcerer is lame to begin with, but moreso for an Enlightened Fist who can't make use of the casting in armour and doesn't need the proficiencies. Spells >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few hp and +1 BAB
#6 darkmatter20 Mar 20, 2008 8:05:49	Take sorcerer. Don't forget that Monks are proficient with the hand-axe (a martial weapon) and you can then also take abjurant champion. Main problem with enlightened fist is all the low and medium BAB classes adding up. If you can try and get your DM to use fractional save increases. If your playing human with fractional the following build is ok Monk1/Sorcerer1/Human paragon3/Enlightened fist 10/Abjurant champion5/ Taking Enlightened fist and abjurant champion in what-ever order you want once you have the requirements. Since you may make a build the following is handy from one who tried it. Ascetic Mage (very good) Improved natural attack Superior unarmed-strike Practiced spellcaster Spells Bite of the were animal series for short buffs (SpC) Greater mighty wallop (1hr/Lv) (SpC) ups size category for unarmed damage Sharptooth, short buff (SpC) Edit: Take a divine companion from complete champion to give yourself some healing and a sudden boost in combat that at Cl20 could give a +20 deflection bonus to AC and +20 resistance bonus to saves for 1min/Cl. Burns your slots out quick though and you can't take rapid metamagic since you already dumped your familiar. This gets up to ~20D8 per punch at lv 20 and scales nicely with level past 8. There are other ways of boosting this further in the monk damage size increases.
#7 phaxi Mar 20, 2008 8:12:49	Spells Bite of the were animal series for short buffs (SpC) Greater mighty wallop (1hr/Lv) (SpC) ups size category for unarmed damage Sharptooth, short buff (SpC) wraithstrike which also makes sorcerer better than battle sorcerer, you dont need the bab anyway.
#8 darkmatter20 Mar 20, 2008 9:50:12	wraithstrike which also makes sorcerer better than battle sorcerer, you dont need the bab anyway. Oh god yeah wraithstrike. I never consider that anymore since I advocated banning it from our game group since it is way too good for its level. Well if a gish has wraithstrike-power attack-leap attack-your choice of charging tactics and lions charge active can extremely high damage with only a small chance of missing. Incidently I've been boycotting the polymorph line of spells as well. I tend to avoid save or die too so the party doesn't either A. doesn't think I'm unless if the enemy saves or B. feel totally useless if the enemy fails. Save or suck is not too bad and can still include the rest of the party.
#9 davethemagicweasel Mar 20, 2008 9:57:47	wraithstrike which also makes sorcerer better than battle sorcerer, you dont need the bab anyway. And if you absolutely need BAB I'd still recommend Sorcerer and then pick up Arcane Disciple for Divine Power, with scrolls/custom runestaff/memento magica (if they work for AD?) to get more daily uses. Or anything adapted from http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=984214
#10 phaxi Mar 20, 2008 11:36:26	And if you absolutely need BAB I'd still recommend Sorcerer and then pick up Arcane Disciple for Divine Power, with scrolls/custom runestaff/memento magica (if they work for AD?) to get more daily uses. Or anything adapted from http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=984214 Unfortunatly E. fists tend to have very very few feats to spare, but yea, battle sorcerer is pretty much useless here. As for spells, Shivering Touch, Greater is nice, and gamebreaking if you're allowed to cast more than one with the use of Rapid Stunning.
#11 the_shaman Mar 21, 2008 3:58:37	Another vote for regular sorcerer. Battle sorcerer gives proficiencies you don't need and a few more HP, but only for its levels - while the gimped progression stays for the rest of your casting levels too. Bad idea, overall.