Entropomancer Exploit (can I do this?!) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Entropomancer Exploit (can I do this?!)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
thisisclever
Jan 10, 2009 17:44:40 [EDIT]- Unfortunately, it would appear that the answer is no. I managed to forget that spheres are very, very small. (Although... what if I used a tiny or smaller entropomancer? Of course, this assumes that you can actually get a sphere in the first place...)

Okay, so at 10th level the might ENTROPOMANCER!!!(Complete Divine, pages 37 and 38) can control a sphere of annihilation as though he/she possesed a Talisman of the Sphere... and is undamaged by said sphere. Couldn't a high level Entropomancer simply move the sphere into his/her square and use it as the ultimate shelter? (Barring Gate and Rods of Cancellation, of course).

In theory, the sphere distintigrates projectiles, obnoxious melee fighters, and (possibly- the DMG isn't clear on this) spells?*

Here's where the real cheese starts. Take a level or two of Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror), along with Tomb-Tainted Soul. This will let you heal yourself without any sort of limit (I think. If not, entropomancers are divine casters, and almost all have healing spells.)... in the middle of battle, because you have a Sphere of antimatter surrounding you.

Of course, your allies will hate you for it- they can't get healed whilst your sphere's there either. And when you do run into an enemy equipped with a Gate spell or Rod of Cancellation. But until your "friends" stab you in the face, you can continue to heal yourself in the middle of battle to little or not cost.

I'm pretty new to the loophole-exploitation scene, so it's possible, nay, certain that some part of this is incorrect. Please have mercy.

Oh, and does this count as thinking with portals? :D

*apparently, "all matter" that contacts the sphere is destroyed. I'm not sure of whether or not spells count as matter.
#2
Grumman
Jan 10, 2009 22:15:45 It's only 2 feet in diameter, so you're probably too big to use it for total cover.

It would stop anyone moving into your square, and it would give you partial cover, but people could still stab at the bits that aren't covered, if they're willing to get so close to the sphere.

Plus, it's also worth remembering that an "exploit" that requires access to an artifact isn't much of an exploit at all.
#3
thisisclever
Jan 11, 2009 1:41:16
It's only 2 feet in diameter, so you're probably too big to use it for total cover.

It would stop anyone moving into your square, and it would give you partial cover, but people could still stab at the bits that aren't covered, if they're willing to get so close to the sphere.

Plus, it's also worth remembering that an "exploit" that requires access to an artifact isn't much of an exploit at all.

Oops. I was under the impression that it was far larger.

Well, so much for that...
#4
surreal
Jan 11, 2009 1:48:13 Thought becoming small enough to fit isn't a terribly difficult thing. Starts as a small race (or tiny... there are a couple of them), cast reduce person, etc.
#5
jenos
Jan 11, 2009 2:49:54 Either way, though, once you can get your hands on one, you probably will risk facing foes with rods of cancellation or gate, which could cause big issues. I can only imagine the pain if you're INSIDE a sphere when a gate hits it...do you get destroyed along with it?
#6
vglcat
Jan 11, 2009 11:58:14 play a pixie!!!!
#7
necroramo
Jan 11, 2009 12:30:11 The DM probably won't give you a sphere of annihilation - so play a Shaedling and make your own!
#8
vglcat
Jan 11, 2009 12:48:06
Shaedling

what's that and what book's it from? anything that can make a sphere of anihlation i neeed to know about.
#9
heliomance
Jan 11, 2009 14:40:13 Oh, it's a race that can make items from their flesh. IIRC, they forgot to limit what you could make with this - they didn't exclude magic items or even artifacts. No DM would ever let you get away with it, but by RAW they're perfectly capable of making a sphere of annihilation.
#10
necroramo
Jan 11, 2009 17:12:58 MMV

can't be more than 15 pounds though, IIRC

I remember hearing that the designer of the Shaedling outright said that it wasn't his intent to do this, but it probably wasn't his intent for the MMV to suck either and there you have it

"OOH IF I GIVE IT 3 LEVELS OF DUSKBLADE INSTEAD OF FIGHTER IT WILL BE BETTER THAN MM4"
#11
thisisclever
Jan 11, 2009 19:49:28 Heh, I feel sorry for someone who plays an entropomancer 10 with a DM who won't allow players to have spheres of annihilation. The class is kind of lacking in any other useful abilities.

Of course, using this trick is likely to cause 17th level wizards to randomly appear...

[Side note/question: there are a couple of Prc's in Complete Divine that get their own spell-casting progression, which ends with having access to ninth level spells at level 15. I was just wondering if this has been retconned by the WotC yet, or if it's still in effect. It's not terribly overpowered, just... odd.]
#12
heliomance
Jan 12, 2009 1:51:13 The Ur-priest does indeed do that, alternatively you can build one using Mystic Theurge that ends up with 9th level arcane AND divine spells.

The only other class I can think of like that is the Sublime Chord from CArc, which you can't get into until level 11, so doesn't actually give you spells early.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thisisclever Jan 10, 2009 17:44:40	[EDIT]- Unfortunately, it would appear that the answer is no. I managed to forget that spheres are very, very small. (Although... what if I used a tiny or smaller entropomancer? Of course, this assumes that you can actually get a sphere in the first place...) Okay, so at 10th level the might ENTROPOMANCER!!!(Complete Divine, pages 37 and 38) can control a sphere of annihilation as though he/she possesed a Talisman of the Sphere... and is undamaged by said sphere. Couldn't a high level Entropomancer simply move the sphere into his/her square and use it as the ultimate shelter? (Barring Gate and Rods of Cancellation, of course). In theory, the sphere distintigrates projectiles, obnoxious melee fighters, and (possibly- the DMG isn't clear on this) spells?* Here's where the real cheese starts. Take a level or two of Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror), along with Tomb-Tainted Soul. This will let you heal yourself without any sort of limit (I think. If not, entropomancers are divine casters, and almost all have healing spells.)... in the middle of battle, because you have a Sphere of antimatter surrounding you. Of course, your allies will hate you for it- they can't get healed whilst your sphere's there either. And when you do run into an enemy equipped with a Gate spell or Rod of Cancellation. But until your "friends" stab you in the face, you can continue to heal yourself in the middle of battle to little or not cost. I'm pretty new to the loophole-exploitation scene, so it's possible, nay, certain that some part of this is incorrect. Please have mercy. Oh, and does this count as thinking with portals? :D *apparently, "all matter" that contacts the sphere is destroyed. I'm not sure of whether or not spells count as matter.
#2 Grumman Jan 10, 2009 22:15:45	It's only 2 feet in diameter, so you're probably too big to use it for total cover. It would stop anyone moving into your square, and it would give you partial cover, but people could still stab at the bits that aren't covered, if they're willing to get so close to the sphere. Plus, it's also worth remembering that an "exploit" that requires access to an artifact isn't much of an exploit at all.
#3 thisisclever Jan 11, 2009 1:41:16	It's only 2 feet in diameter, so you're probably too big to use it for total cover. It would stop anyone moving into your square, and it would give you partial cover, but people could still stab at the bits that aren't covered, if they're willing to get so close to the sphere. Plus, it's also worth remembering that an "exploit" that requires access to an artifact isn't much of an exploit at all. Oops. I was under the impression that it was far larger. Well, so much for that...
#4 surreal Jan 11, 2009 1:48:13	Thought becoming small enough to fit isn't a terribly difficult thing. Starts as a small race (or tiny... there are a couple of them), cast reduce person, etc.
#5 jenos Jan 11, 2009 2:49:54	Either way, though, once you can get your hands on one, you probably will risk facing foes with rods of cancellation or gate, which could cause big issues. I can only imagine the pain if you're INSIDE a sphere when a gate hits it...do you get destroyed along with it?
#6 vglcat Jan 11, 2009 11:58:14	play a pixie!!!!
#7 necroramo Jan 11, 2009 12:30:11	The DM probably won't give you a sphere of annihilation - so play a Shaedling and make your own!
#8 vglcat Jan 11, 2009 12:48:06	Shaedling what's that and what book's it from? anything that can make a sphere of anihlation i neeed to know about.
#9 heliomance Jan 11, 2009 14:40:13	Oh, it's a race that can make items from their flesh. IIRC, they forgot to limit what you could make with this - they didn't exclude magic items or even artifacts. No DM would ever let you get away with it, but by RAW they're perfectly capable of making a sphere of annihilation.
#10 necroramo Jan 11, 2009 17:12:58	MMV can't be more than 15 pounds though, IIRC I remember hearing that the designer of the Shaedling outright said that it wasn't his intent to do this, but it probably wasn't his intent for the MMV to suck either and there you have it "OOH IF I GIVE IT 3 LEVELS OF DUSKBLADE INSTEAD OF FIGHTER IT WILL BE BETTER THAN MM4"
#11 thisisclever Jan 11, 2009 19:49:28	Heh, I feel sorry for someone who plays an entropomancer 10 with a DM who won't allow players to have spheres of annihilation. The class is kind of lacking in any other useful abilities. Of course, using this trick is likely to cause 17th level wizards to randomly appear... [Side note/question: there are a couple of Prc's in Complete Divine that get their own spell-casting progression, which ends with having access to ninth level spells at level 15. I was just wondering if this has been retconned by the WotC yet, or if it's still in effect. It's not terribly overpowered, just... odd.]
#12 heliomance Jan 12, 2009 1:51:13	The Ur-priest does indeed do that, alternatively you can build one using Mystic Theurge that ends up with 9th level arcane AND divine spells. The only other class I can think of like that is the Sublime Chord from CArc, which you can't get into until level 11, so doesn't actually give you spells early.