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| #1phoenix00Apr 09, 2008 0:48:10 | And based off how these descriptions are done, a dragonwrought kobold with bloodlines is completely awesome. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080407a&authentic=true |
| #2phoenix00Apr 09, 2008 0:49:11 | Epic Binders by Eytan Bernstein 04/07/2008 Dragon Features Archive Epic binders do something that most mortals would find insanity-inducing: bind powerful beings from beyond space and time. These binders travel the world and the planes searching for entities forgotten or banished from reality. The epic vestiges found below are even more powerful than their nonepic counterparts, since they represent the fractured remnant of a dead god that sacrificed itself for its people, the essence of a continent that an alien creature consumed, the collective souls of the slain firstborn of an empire, or the displaced soul of an alien harbinger of apocalypse. The nature of epic vestiges is similar to that of nonepic vestiges, but they are grander, more tragic, and more terrifying. Epic binders must take feats to gain access to epic vestiges. These feats represent significant personal exploration and research, and each feat is a special bond with a strange being or presence beyond space and time. Unlike nonepic vestiges, epic vestiges do not have effective levels. The power level of the feats is limited by their prerequisites. For instance, a vestige feat that requires Knowledge (the planes) 28 ranks and the ability to bind 8th-level vestiges can be taken only by a character of 25th level. The number of vestiges known by an epic binder is limited only by the number of epic vestige feats she takes and her caster level. Epic binders do not automatically gain the ability to bind multiple epic vestiges. For each additional vestige a binder wishes to bind at the same time, she must select the Bind Additional Epic Vestige feat. Thus, the feats of an epic binder are divided between gaining more vestiges, binding multiple vestiges simultaneously, and a variety of other epic feats based on the feats listed in the Tome of Magic. Epic Binder Epic binders make pacts with the residual presences of beings and cosmic energies so powerful that these energies would drive other beings mad. Hit Die: d8. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier. Vestiges: Epic binders continue to gain the ability to bind additional nonepic vestiges simultaneously. At 25th level, an epic binder can bind five vestiges at the same time. She can bind an additional vestige simultaneously for every binder level beyond 25th (30th, 35th, 40th, and so on). In all other ways, this follows the rules for binding additional vestiges as described in Tome of Magic. Effective Binder Level: Levels taken in epic binder (and prestige classes that increase EBL) continue to improve binding checks, ability DCs, durations, and other abilities based on EBL as described in Tome of Magic. Epic vestige DCs are regulated by EBL in the same manner as nonepic vestiges. Pact Augmentation: At 24th level, an epic binder gains a sixth ability from the pact augmentation list. She gains additional abilities from the list every 4 additional levels (7 at 28th, 8 and 32nd, and so on). This functions in all other ways as the ability of the same name described in the Tome of Magic. Bonus Feats: An epic binder gains a bonus feat every three levels higher than 20th (23rd, 26th, 29th, and so on). These feats must be selected from the epic binder bonus feats list below. Epic Binder Bonus Feats: Additional Magic Item Space, Augmented Alchemy, Bind Additional Epic Vestige*, Bind Additional Vestige*, Bind Amun-her Khepeshef "Desecrated Scion"*, Bind Gaia "Soul of the Land"*, Bind Tkhaluuljin "the Cephalopocalypse"*, Bind Zuriel "the Bronze God"*, Damage Reduction, Dexterous Fortitude, Dexterous Will, Energy Resistance, Epic Expel Vestige*, Epic Favored Vestige*, Epic Favored Vestige Focus*, Epic Rapid Pact Making*, Epic Rapid Recovery*, Epic Skilled Pact Making*, Extended Lifespan, Fast Healing. *New feat described in this article. Epic Vestige Feats Each epic vestige feat requires an epic binder to have a certain number of ranks in a skill (always one from the binder class list). These feats often have other esoteric requirements based on the nature of the feat -- the acquisition of a certain relic, visiting another plane, paying respects at the site where the vestige died, or other similar requirements. None of these esoteric requirements require additional feats -- maintaining the idea that binder magic is supposed to be "the easy way to power;" they might require special quests or adventures. Designing Epic Vestiges Creating epic vestiges is more an art than a science. The guidelines presented in Design & Development: Designing Your Own Vestige, Part 1, are still helpful, though epic levels are an entirely different playing field. * At will or constant abilities should be the equivalent of 7th-9th level spells, though some lower level spells are still appropriate. * Abilities with a 5-round delay should be about as useful and powerful as a high-level spell cast by an epic wizard. This does not refer to epic spells. Rather, it compares to epic spell slots used to cast nonepic spells with metamagic effects (such as an empowered, maximized, quickened magic missile spell). This is just an approximation, but it is a good guideline for the power level of these abilities. * Abilities that grant class features from another class (such a turning undead, sneak attacks, or rage) should be about four levels behind what a character from that class gains. At the end of the day, the design is more about how the whole package feels than a specific formula. If it seems much more powerful than what another epic-level character of the same level can do, it probably is (and should be adjusted accordingly). Bind Additional Epic Vestige [Epic] You can bind an additional epic vestige. Prerequisites: Ability to bind two or more different epic vestiges; effective binder level 21st. Benefit: You can bind an additional epic vestige. Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time you take it, you can simultaneously bind an additional epic vestige you know. For example, Peltaria, a 30th-level binder, has taken the Bind Gaia, Bind Amun-her Khepeshef, and Bind Zuriel epic feats. Without the Bind Additional Epic Vestige feat, she can bind only one of those vestiges at a given time. Peltaria has taken this feat twice, allowing her to bind all three of her epic vestiges simultaneously. Bind Additional Vestige [Epic] You can bind an additional nonepic vestige. Prerequisites: Ability to bind 8th-level vestiges; effective binder level 21st. Benefit: You can bind an additional vestige. Normal: The number of nonepic vestiges you can bind simultaneously is limited by your class level. Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time you take the feat, you can add one to the maximum number of nonepic vestiges you can bind simultaneously. Bind Amun-her Khepeshef "Desecrated Scion" [Epic Vestige] Once the firstborn heir to his people's kingdom, Amun-her Khepeshef represents the souls of the firstborn sons of the empire, whose lives were tragically extinguished by the god of their slaves. The collective will of the spirits begged the death-god for oblivion, becoming the vestige known as Amun-her Khepeshef. Amun-her Khepeshef grants the ability to continue to act while dead, protection from death effects and the attacks of undead, bonuses on strategic checks in battle, and the ability to release a powerful burst of positive energy. Prerequisites: Ability to bind 8th-level vestiges; Knowledge (history) or Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 29 ranks. Benefit: You can bind Amun-her Khepeshef "Desecrated Scion." Legend: Amun-her Khepeshef was the heir to the throne, son of the current king, and leader of the army. The empire kept thousands of slaves, who they used to build numerous pyramids, tombs, and palaces. When the slaves revolted, the empire imposed harsh strictures, limiting their religious freedoms. Eventually, the people rebelled, calling on their long suppressed god to smite their captors. Furious, the god struck the empire with numerous plagues -- fire, vermin, disease, drought, and worse. The final plague was the most terrible even in the empire's history -- the foreign god struck down the firstborn sons of each family in the empire, including Amun-her Khepeshef. The loss of the first-born sons was tragic, bringing an entire generation to its knees with depression and desperation. To make matters worse, grave robbers and rival invaders desecrated the numerous new tombs, destroying the sanctity of the afterlife of the dead sons. These spirits became furious: angry at the foreign god and his people, enraged at those who betrayed them in their complacency, livid at the tomb robbers who interrupted their after-life, the spirits appealed to the god of the dead, who agreed to banish them beyond space and time, so that they would suffer no longer. These spirits were removed from existence as a single bound entity known as Amun-her Khepeshef. Special Requirement: You cannot bind Amun-her Khepeshef if you are currently suffering from any level drain, negative levels, ability drain, or ability damage dealt by undead or by spells and spell-like abilities from the necromancy school. Only living creatures can bind Amun-her Khepeshef. Manifestation: When Amun-her Khepeshef manifests, a handsome tanned male warrior appears in a sarcophagus, his body resplendent in gold and gems and surrounded by ritual accoutrements. The lid of the stone sarcophagus lies broken on the floor several feet away. Suddenly, the warrior bolts upright in the sarcophagus. He wails a scream of pain that sounds like the collective voices of men and boys. His body explodes into overlapping images of thousands of men and male children of all different ages, their faces jaundiced, their cheeks sunken, and their skin reeking of rotting death. They wail in unison for but a moment, and then the forms merge back together into that of the warrior. The warrior lies back down into his sarcophagus, still and dead. Sign: You take on the look of the dead: jaundiced skin, sunken cheeks, bags under the eyes, and stiff movements. You exude a faint odor of decay and preservative chemicals. Influence: You cannot abide the presence of undead, necromancers, and death spells and effects. You seek any opportunity to slay undead, and you refuse to work with anyone who you feel uses necromancy and death effects. You are easily provoked by such individuals, seeing reasons to fight them that many miss. Granted Abilities: While bound to Amun-her Khepeshef, you can release a powerful burst of positive energy that heals the living and harms the dead, can function even while dead or dying, are immune to numerous death effects and undead attacks and can grant this immunity to allies, and can generate an aura that enhances the battle tactics of you and your allies significantly. Burst of Life: As a standard action, you can release a 30-foot burst of positive energy centered on yourself. All allies in the area (including you) receive the effects of a heal (healing 250 points of damage as well as receiving the other benefits of the spell) and greater restoration spell (without an XP cost). Undead (and other creatures harmed by positive energy) take damage from the heal effect. Once you have used this ability, you cannot do so again for 5 rounds. Delay Death: For a total time per day of 1 round per effective binder level you possess, you do not die when you have taken enough damage to put you below -9 hit points, as if under the effects of a delay death(SpC) effect. This effect occurs automatically as soon as it applies, lasts until it runs out or is no longer needed, and can operate multiple times per day (up to the daily limit of rounds). In addition, while affected by this power, you can continue to act normally, without suffering any of the limitations normally faced by a character at -1 hit points or lower. If the duration of this power has elapsed and you are between -1 to -9 hit points, you stabilize at your current hit point total. If it has elapsed and you have less than -9 hp, you instantly die. Firstborn Guardian: You are immune to fatigue, exhaustion, ability damage and drain, energy drain, death spells, magical death effects, and negative energy effects (such as from inflict spells or chill touch). You are also immune to special attacks and abilities of undead that cause fear, disease, paralysis, or poison. All weapons you wield (as well as natural attacks) are considered to have the ghost touch weapon quality. You gain a +4 sacred bonus to AC against the attacks of undead. This is constant and does not require an action to activate. As a swift action, you can extend the same protections to one ally per 5 effective binder levels you possess. This protection lasts for 1 round/level. When it runs out, you must wait 5 rounds before activating it again. Scion of War: You project a 60-foot aura that enhances the battle prowess of your allies (including yourself). All allies within 60 feet receive double your Charisma modifier as a bonus on all bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, sunder, and trip checks. Bind Gaia, "Soul of the Land" [Epic Vestige] Once the soul of a continent, Gaia grants her summoners the ability to feel the pulse of the land, allowing them advantages against unnatural creatures, senses derived from the land, immunity to elemental forces, the ability to speak with and influence the attitudes of creatures, and the capacity to regenerate wounds. Prerequisites: Ability to bind 8th-level vestiges; Decipher Script, Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nature), or Knowledge (the planes) 25 ranks; special. Special: To learn to bind Gaia, an epic binder must find and decipher the Tome of Continental Lore, an ancient gith text of geological science and history. Understanding the text requires at least 25 ranks in one of the skills listed above. Benefit: You can bind the epic vestige known as Gaia, "Soul of the Land." Legend: Gaia was both the nature goddess of a lost continent and the body of that land itself. She was the patron of all creatures and the defender of sacred life. When the land was injured, she too was hurt, her life-essence pumping in time with the earth. When Tkhaluuljin, a mammoth alien squidlike entity, attacked the land, Gaia fought, hoping to sacrifice her essence to protect the lives of her beloved residents. Her attempts were a failure and Tkhaluuljin swallowed her along with all life that lived on her surface. Even in the gargantuan stomach of the alien squid, Gaia continued to fight for her people, raking Tkhaluuljin with sharp branches and rocks and inciting her surviving followers to use their magic against the entity. Gaia and those that lived upon her could not save themselves, but they did destroy their captor. After a long drawn-out fight, Tkhaluuljin was so injured that it could no longer control its flight. It plummeted into the ocean, killing itself, Gaia, and her charges in the process. Special Requirement: You must summon Gaia outdoors. She does not answer your call if you cannot see the sky. Manifestation: When Gaia manifests, a large green sphere appears where the sun (or moon) should be. The surface of the planet slowly becomes more illuminated, its land masses and oceans more distinct. The light intensifies until it is as bright as the sun. The planet explodes in a ball of fire and plasma, sending flaming meteorites in all directions. In the afterimage of the explosion, the silhouette of a beautiful green-skinned woman appears briefly, and then winks out. Left in the image's place is the ethereal silhouette of a vaguely female figure. Sign: The hair on your face, head, and body takes on a greenish hue, as do the eyes and skin. Influence: Never allow cruelty toward living creatures to occur in your presence. Seek out every opportunity to destroy aberrations, constructs, oozes, and undead. Granted Abilities: While bound to Gaia, you can gain potent advantages against unnatural creatures, gain a connection to the land that enhances the senses, speak with and enchant living creatures, become immune to an element, and regenerate wounds. Earth's Fury: Your attacks and powers are more potent against aberrations, constructs, oozes, and undead. All spells, powers, and abilities you possess have a +4 bonus to their DCs when used against creatures of these types. You can freely use sneak attacks, critical hits, and precision damage against creatures of these types and automatically confirm critical threats against them. Finally, you receive a +4 bonus to your AC and saving throws against attacks made by creatures of these types. Earthsense: You gain potent senses derived from your connection to the land. You gain darkvision with an unlimited range, allowing you to see through both natural and magical darkness to the limit of your normal vision. You gain scent and can track opponents by scent as if you had the Track feat. You receive blindsight out to 120 feet and tremorsense out to 60 feet. Earth's Voice: You gain the Polyglot epic feat. You can also speak with plants (as speak with plants) and animals (as speak with animals). These abilities are constant and require no activation. Any living creature that can hear your voice must make a Will save or be considered to have an attitude of friendly toward you until you do something to change this. Elemental Fortitude: When you bind Gaia, choose one element from among the following: acid, cold, fire, or electricity. You are immune to that element for as long as you are bound to Gaia. Once every 5 rounds, you can spend a full round action to change your immunity to a different element. Planetary Healing: You gain regeneration equal to 1 per 4 caster levels you possess. Thus, a 28th-level binder has regeneration 7. You take normal damage from fire and acid. By touching an ally, you can grant her any or all of your regeneration as a standard action. You can split your regeneration up among multiple allies, though each additional ally requires an additional standard action. At any time, you can recall any or all points of regeneration you have granted to your allies as an immediate action. Granting and recalling your regeneration does not provoke attacks of opportunity. For example, Leila is a 28th-level binder who has bound Gaia. This grants her regeneration 7. As a standard action, she touches her companion Dinah, granting her regeneration 3. Three rounds later, she grants the remaining 4 points of regeneration to her ally Rainer, keeping none for herself. When a great wyrm blue dragon enters the fight, Leila decides that she needs all of the regeneration. She spends an immediate action, recalling all of the points of regeneration for her own protection. Bind Tkhaluuljin "the Cephalopocalypse" [Epic Vestige] A gargantuan alien squidlike entity, Tkhaluuljin traveled the planes, devouring whatever blocked its path. It was not malevolent; rather, it was the embodiment of pure hunger -- the insatiable need to consume all. When you bind Tkhaluuljin, you project an aura of madness, gain exceptional abilities of flight, can stun enemies, and can summon a sphere of annihilation. Prerequisites: Ability to bind 8th-level vestiges; Knowledge (history), Knowledge (nature), or Knowledge (the planes) 30 ranks. Benefit: You can bind Tkhaluuljin "the Cephalopocalypse." Legend: No one knows where Tkhaluuljin came from. In the language of the gith, its name roughly translates as "living armageddon." Scholars of planar lore believe that it may have emerged from some sort of rift or black hole and that it is a being of pure nihilism that serves no purpose beyond indiscriminate destruction. When Tkhaluuljin attempted to devour the land known as Gaia, it had no expectation that this land would be any different than the others. It never really thought about what it was eating. Then, as it devoured that land, it could no longer control its flight, so it plummeted into the ocean where it was torn apart from within. When it finally exploded in a supernova, it destroyed everything within hundreds of miles. Manifestation: When Tkhaluuljin manifests, a black rift opens in the air, absorbing all light in the area. All the matter in the area -- trees, rocks, plants, animals, and even people -- appears to get sucked into the portal. A strange slurping sound begins, followed by a flash of dark magenta light. When the light dissipates, the tentacle-mawed head of an enormous squidlike creature emerges, followed by a bulbous translucent body. As the rear half of the creature emerges from the rift, dark magenta light flashes again. When the light dissipates, you see the rift hurtling toward you, imbuing you with the essence of destruction. Sign: Your veins appear spidery and more pronounced, emitting a pulsing magenta light. Influence: You can never pass up the opportunity to eat. This does not require you to eat food that you would normally consider inedible, but you must consume 5 times the amount of food you would normally eat when not bound to Tkhaluuljin. Granted Abilities: While bound to Tkhaluuljin, you can project an aura of madness, fly with incredible speed and accuracy, release a blast of stunning energy, and summon a dreaded sphere of annihilation. Aura of Madness: As a standard action, you can project a 10-foot aura that drives others mad. All living creatures who pass within the aura must make a Will save or become confused for 1 round per 5 caster levels you possess. A creature that makes its saving throw cannot be affected by this power for 24 hours (though that creature can still be affected by another binder's use of this power or by other forms of confusion). This is a mind-affecting effect. You can suppress this ability as a standard action. If you suppress this ability, you must wait 5 rounds before you reactivate it. Flight of the Alien: You can fly extremely fast and with perfect accuracy, gaining a fly speed of 150 feet with perfect maneuverability. You also gain the Flyby Attack, Hover, and Wingover bonus feats (MM 303-304). Your flight is graceful, but alien since it consists of a series of bizarre angles and undulating arcs. Mind Blast: You can release a 120-foot-cone mind blast effect. Anyone caught in the cone must succeed on a Will save or be stunned for 12 rounds. You must wait 5 rounds between uses of this ability. Sphere of Annihilation: You can summon a sphere of annihilation (DMG 279) as a full-round action. You can use it for a total number of rounds per day equal to your effective binder level, though these need not be consecutive. You can use your Charisma modifier on your control check in place of your Intelligence modifier if you wish. You can use a talisman of the sphere to augment your abilities as normal (and the sphere doubles your Charisma modifier instead of your Intelligence modifier should you choose to use Charisma for control checks). You must still make control checks to control the sphere as normal though you are immune to the effects of a sphere you summon. This does not protect you from spheres summoned by others. If you summon the sphere, you cannot summon it again for 5 rounds (regardless of the number of rounds you used it). Bind Zuriel "the Bronze God" [Epic Vestige] Zuriel was a just deity of war who sacrificed his life and divinity in vain when githyanki invaded his land. Zuriel grants you the ability to augment your fighting prowess, employ powerful force effects with the speed of thought, fortify your pacts, and absorb damage suffered by allies. Prerequisites: Ability to bind 8th-level vestiges; Knowledge (history) 27 ranks. Benefit: You can bind Zuriel "the Bronze God." Legend: Zuriel was the deity of just and reasoned war, a stalwart force that spoke for and defended the people of his land. When the githyanki invaded the land after reawakening long-dormant portals, Zuriel organized the defensive front. During the war, thousands of citizens and several gods perished under the assault of the elder evils, but it was not enough. Zuriel was the last defense between the innocent citizens and slavery to the Lich Queen. He sacrificed his divinity and his life to create a force field that would block the invaders, but during the ritual, he was overcome by the githyanki and the land was taken. It was too late to halt the ritual, and his life force dissipated into the ether. Since his death and dissolution, he has been a frustrated and resentful vestige, but he still possesses a basic sense of decency and kindness. This paradox carries to any who bind him. Special Requirement: You cannot bind Zuriel if you are evil-aligned. Manifestation: When Zuriel manifests, a 10-foot-tall, bronze-skinned, male figure with a perfect, athletic body stands before you. He wears an expression of proud dignity, as if he is ready for some momentous occasion. Suddenly, he looks up, seeing images of githyanki riding yrthaks, and screams. The bronze covering his body shatters, revealing an athletic mortal, his heart pierced by a githyanki arrow. He leans forward and whispers in your ear, "Do not let the city fall," then topples over dead. Sign: Your skin takes on a bronze sheen, your muscles expand and tighten, you appear more athletic overall, and your posture changes as you hold your carriage proud and upright. Influence: You must always intercede on the behalf of innocents when their lives are threatened. You also must slay githyanki on sight and hunt them down whenever the opportunity presents itself. You never retreat from a fight if you feel that leaving it would endanger innocents. Granted Abilities: When you bind Zuriel, you can become a skilled warrior, employ powerful force effects, enhance your existing pacts, and absorb the wounds of your allies. Bronze Body: You can employ a Tenser's transformation effect for a number of rounds per day equal to your effective binder level. Activating this ability requires a swift action that can be spent only at the beginning of your turn before you do anything else. You can split the duration into multiple uses, however you desire. You can end the effect as a swift action that must be spent at the beginning of your turn before you do anything else. If you end this effect, you must wait 5 rounds before beginning it again. Forceful Speed of Thought: You can create several powerful force effects with the speed of thought. You can use a quickened empowered maximized magic missile, quickened wall of force, or quickened force cage as the spells of the same names. If you use this ability, you must wait 5 rounds before using it again. You can only have one of these effects in place at a time. For example, if you have employed a wall of force, you can't use the other two abilities until the spell's duration elapses or you have dismissed its effect. You cannot use this ability while under the effects of the bronze body ability. Pact Fortification: Zuriel intensifies the bonds you've forged when making pacts. All benefits you receive from pact augmentation abilities are doubled. Thus, if you have selected +5 hit points three times, you receive +30 extra hit points. If you have taken DR 5/-- (by selecting DR 1/-- five times), you receive DR 10/--. Ultimate Sacrifice: You can absorb the wounds suffered by an ally. As an immediate action, you can take all damage suffered by a single willing creature from one attack, spell, power, or ability. You suffer all the damage and your ally is unharmed. You must be able to see the ally, but gain no special information about the nature of the attack or how much damage it has caused. You can employ this power even if the attack would kill you. Epic Expel Vestige [Epic] You can expel vestiges whenever the need arises. Prerequisites: Effective binder level 21st, Expel Vestige. Benefits: You can expel vestiges as often as desired. This replaces the once per day limitation imposed by the Expel Vestige feat. In all other ways, it functions the same way as the Expel Vestige feat. Special: Binders with the Expel Vestige feat can expel a vestige only once per day. Epic Favored Vestige [Epic] You are extremely adept at using the abilities of a particular vestige. Prerequisites: Effective binder level 21st, Favored Vestige. Benefits: Your effective binder level increases by 3 when you use the abilities granted by your chosen vestige. This replaces the ability granted by the Favored Vestige feat. Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a new vestige (for which you must have the Favored Vestige feat). Epic Favored Vestige Focus [Epic] The abilities you manifest from a particular vestige are extremely potent against enemies. Prerequisites: Effective binder level 21st, Favored Vestige Focus. Benefits: The DC of each supernatural ability granted by your favored vestige increases by 1. This replaces the ability granted by the Favored Vestige Focus feat. Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a new vestige (for which you must have the Favored Vestige Focus feat). Epic Rapid Pact Making [Epic] You can make pacts with powerful beings very quickly. Prerequisites: Effective binder level 21st, Rapid Pact Making. Benefits: You can bind vestiges as a full-round action. Special: Binding vestiges normally requires 1 minute. Epic Rapid Recovery [Epic] You can use the abilities of your favored vestige even more frequently than before. Prerequisites: Effective binder level 21st, Rapid Recovery. Benefits: You can activate abilities of your favored vestige once every 3 rounds rather than once every 4 rounds. You must be bound to the vestige to use its abilities with this feat. Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a new vestige (for which you must have the Favored Vestige feat). Epic Skilled Pact Making [Epic] You are exceptionally skilled at making pacts with powerful entities. Prerequisites: Effective binder level 21st, Skilled Pact Making. Benefit: You gain a +10 bonus on binding checks. This replaces the bonus granted by the Skilled Pact Making feat. About the Author Eytan Bernstein hails from exotic Long Island and spends his days writing and editing projects for numerous game companies. In addition to his work on Dragons of Faerûn, the Magic Item Compendium, and numerous other projects, Eytan serves as a partner and PR & Marketing Manager for Silven Publishing. Eytan enjoys hunting for gems and minerals in rock quarries, studying religion and theology, composing music, and playing with his many pets. For more information about Eytan, check out www.eytanbernstein.com. Send questions and comments for Eytan here. |
| #3SenevriApr 09, 2008 1:16:24 | Well, that was made of Awesome and Win. Is it wrong to bind both Gaia and Thakluujin at the same time? :P |
| #4phoenix00Apr 09, 2008 1:41:06 | WARNING MAJOR CHEESE AHEAD![]() Cheesewrought Kobold A dragonwrought kobold of extreme old age and thus can take epic feats, as well as be a true dragon for Loredrake, and better mental stats. Using the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage Using the Loredrake option from Dragons of Eberron Using the Green Lady Vestige and the Apostle of the Green Lady prestige class. These options are a modified version of Tenebrous and Tenebrous Apostate created by one of the Savage Tide designers. The brief summary is that the class is a 5/5 spellcasting class and can do arcane or divine. Feats 1 Dragonwrought Kobold 1 Flaw Weapon Focus 1 Flaw Open 3 Draconic Reservoir 6 Extend Spell 9 Open 12 Open Can start taking Epic Binder Feats 15 Open 18 Open From Metamagic Storm Persistent Spell ------ Alingment has to be Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil ------ Spells Known Level is only 2 behind a normal human sorcerer starting level 10, and only 1 behind level 7, 8, and 9. Insane EBL which means high dcs, fast progression for what vestiges you can bind, and can bind more vestiges than normal. 5 vestiges at level 17. 4 at level 12. Can do 8th level vestiges at level 10. Can persist up to 3 spells per day. As well as many other goodies |
| #5phoenix00Apr 09, 2008 1:45:44 | Now imagine someone who is bound to zceryal. Can summon a monster from the Summon Monster IX list at level 10. If you make your two open feats Favored Vestige Zceryal and Rapid Recovery Zceryal you can summon a new monster and do a daze once every round at level 10. You still cast spells as a 8th level sorcerer. Have +2 Charisma, and have another vestige you can bind. ----- At level 12 you can now bind an additional vestige (for a total of 4 vestiges 2 of them are free, the none free ones are zceryal and the green lady). ----- At level 15 you take the epic feat, epic rapid recovery to reduce the delay to once every 3 rounds. |
| #6tsuyoshikentsuApr 09, 2008 12:16:21 | Any living creature that can hear your voice must make a Will save or be considered to have an attitude of friendly toward you until you do something to change this. ...Great. Because we really needed to make Diplomancy easier. |
| #7sinfire_titanApr 09, 2008 12:22:43 | ...Great. Because we really needed to make Diplomancy easier. That really is wrong. Imagine this with the Jumplomancer? |
| #8tsuyoshikentsuApr 09, 2008 12:55:45 | At Epic, this completely obsoletes the Jumplomancer. |
| #9phoenix00Apr 09, 2008 12:59:32 | At epic isn't most people immune to mind affecting effects. Mind Blank, Consturct, Undead, etc. |
| #10jameswilliamogleApr 09, 2008 13:07:41 | This is exciting... the last Binder I'll ever play in 3.5 is now a L11 Binder L5 KoSS. I've been playing him since L2, and its Age of Worms which definitely hits epic (assuming no TPK). This came out just in time! Epic Rapid Pact-Making + Epic Expel Vestige: this is like editing your own DNA, on the fly, whenever you want. Freakin' awesome! I have some boots that 1/day gives me a 2 round Time Stop, too. The Wizard was using it, but now he has normal Time Stop, this is going to come in freakin' handy! |
| #11Omen_of_PeaceApr 09, 2008 13:14:21 | @Phoenix00: from what you presented, only the extra vestige(s) bound and access to Epic Fast Recovery at level 15 are new, correct ? The article doesn't change that much for people who want to cheese bloodlines out, since the Epic Vestiges - the real meat - have skill requirements. |
| #12jameswilliamogleApr 09, 2008 13:18:56 | @Phoenix00: from what you presented, only the extra vestige(s) bound and access to Epic Fast Recovery at level 15 are new, correct ? The article doesn't change that much for people who want to cheese bloodlines out, since the Epic Vestiges - the real meat - have skill requirements. Even without it, the cheesewrought kobinder can have 6 vestiges at ECL20, which is nice, and the Epic Rapid Binding / Expel Vestige combo. The one thing Binders lack that Incarnates don't is the ability to swap their setup on the fly easily; this still takes two rounds, but is a start. |
| #13amadithegreatApr 09, 2008 13:20:16 | Vestiges: Epic binders continue to gain the ability to bind additional nonepic vestiges simultaneously. At 25th level, an epic binder can bind five vestiges at the same time. She can bind an additional vestige simultaneously for every binder level beyond 25th (30th, 35th, 40th, and so on). In all other ways, this follows the rules for binding additional vestiges as described in Tome of Magic. So, at level 30 i can bind 10. According to text anyway. |
| #14jameswilliamogleApr 09, 2008 13:29:39 | So, at level 30 i can bind 10. According to text anyway. Thats gotta be a typo; good eye, though. |
| #15phoenix00Apr 09, 2008 13:45:56 | So, at level 30 i can bind 10. According to text anyway. that is a typo, just like the caster level mentions instead of effective binder level. |
| #16scorpions_are_cool_Apr 09, 2008 16:23:09 | This is great, I hope they come out with some support for the epic Shadowcaster and the epic Truenamer. |
| #17archerpwrApr 09, 2008 16:32:16 | This is great, I hope they come out with some support for the epic Shadowcaster and the epic Truenamer. New feat: Epic Fail [General] Benefit: You fail truespeak checks even harder now. |
| #18tsuyoshikentsuApr 10, 2008 0:07:18 | New feat: Epic Win. :D But I actually would like to see Epic Shadowcaster too. |
| #19archerpwrApr 10, 2008 0:10:43 | Epic Win. :D Yeah, I heard shadowcaster was sorta viable. |
| #20adslahnitApr 12, 2008 2:43:05 | Sphere of Annihilation: You can summon a sphere of annihilation (DMG 279) as a full-round action. You can use it for a total number of rounds per day equal to your effective binder level, though these need not be consecutive. You can use your Charisma modifier on your control check in place of your Intelligence modifier if you wish. You can use a talisman of the sphere to augment your abilities as normal (and the sphere doubles your Charisma modifier instead of your Intelligence modifier should you choose to use Charisma for control checks). You must still make control checks to control the sphere as normal though you are immune to the effects of a sphere you summon. This does not protect you from spheres summoned by others. If you summon the sphere, you cannot summon it again for 5 rounds (regardless of the number of rounds you used it). Is it just me, or is this the only way to get a legit Sphere of Annihilation within the rules and without DM fiat? Oh, and it doesn't say WHERE you can summon the Sphere of Annihilation, so it might just be possible to summon it right into an opponent for an instant kill. Now imagine someone who is bound to zceryal. Zceryal? I've never heard of that vestige before, and Google isn't turning anything up. |
| #21Omen_of_PeaceApr 12, 2008 2:47:45 | Try Zceryl or Zceryll ; or look in the Consolidated Binder Handbook. |
| #22progresslevel9Apr 12, 2008 3:48:36 | Class Chronicles: Binders from the Faerun section (Important to note: Zceryll is technically Faerun Specific, as is Font of Inspiration, for that matter.) |
| #23jameswilliamogleApr 12, 2008 8:43:51 | Yeah, I heard shadowcaster was sorta viable. It is, quite! |
| #24scorpions_are_cool_Apr 12, 2008 16:30:45 | The Truenamer is viable too! I've seen builds that can get you a +102 on Truespeak by level twenty and that's not bad at all considering the DC to affect a CR 20 monster would only be 55! I hate it when people say the Truenamer isn't playable, it's a great class! Tome of shadow is good for epic Shadowcasters, but epic material for the Truenamer is absent from the web entirely! I'm looking into designing epic utterances on the epic boards but still some official support for both classes would be really nice. Unfortunetly I asked wizards and they eMailed back saying no such support is planned but to "watch the boards for announcements" anyways, at least it's a little easier to design a homebrew for them than it is for the Binder. |
| #25jameswilliamogleApr 12, 2008 18:10:32 | The Truenamer is viable too! I've seen builds that can get you a +102 on Truespeak by level twenty and that's not bad at all considering the DC to affect a CR 20 monster would only be 55! I hate it when people say the Truenamer isn't playable, it's a great class! Most DMs won't allow everything that gets the Truespeech check to those numbers, unfortunately. All the more power if they do, though. I recomend doing your epic progression thread: the same thing was done for Binders, and lo and behold enough interest was generated . |
| #26runestarApr 12, 2008 23:11:17 | * At will or constant abilities should be the equivalent of 7th-9th level spells, though some lower level spells are still appropriate. Is the designer advocating timestop, gate or wish usable at will?:P |
| #27jameswilliamogleApr 12, 2008 23:37:37 | Is the designer advocating timestop, gate or wish usable at will?:P I have a Binder with a custom Timestop 2 round item, swift action activation, 1/day. Its nice, but what exactly can I do with it? Other than the few summons (mainly through the Z-dog), and the very limited crowd control (Halphax), what can I do with it? Gates broken in any game, though. Wish less so, but still powerful. What's interesting is that as a Su ability, it wouldn't have XP costs unless it was written in. |
| #28phoenix00Apr 13, 2008 1:50:58 | Well the nice thing about wish/miracle as a SU doesn't have to be the item creating/infinite wealth possibility cheese. It can be just the ability to simulate almost every spell in the game from 6th level to 8th. |
| #29jetstrike3000Apr 13, 2008 7:16:25 | Insane EBL which means high dcs, fast progression for what vestiges you can bind, and can bind more vestiges than normal. 5 vestiges at level 17. 4 at level 12. Can do 8th level vestiges at level 10. Could Someone explain how bloodlines affect EBL for me. Is it that a bloodline advances every class with the soul binding ability? |
| #30amadithegreatApr 13, 2008 8:32:51 | Epic vestige creation sounds fun. And cheesy. Definitely cheesy. At will or constant abilities should be the equivalent of 7th-9th level spells, though some lower level spells are still appropriate. Allright, as mentioned - Gate, Time Stop and others are great, say PaO at will? But what else could there be equivalent to those spells? What about psionic powers.. Constant Affinity field does seem nice. What about constant Timeless Body? Psychic Chirgurgency with no XP cost at will? Well, this can be broken by anyone with imagination. # Abilities with a 5-round delay should be about as useful and powerful as a high-level spell cast by an epic wizard. This does not refer to epic spells. Rather, it compares to epic spell slots used to cast nonepic spells with metamagic effects (such as an empowered, maximized, quickened magic missile spell). This is just an approximation, but it is a good guideline for the power level of these abilities. Intensified Entwinned Orb of Acid? Well, not that great, it's only 640 damage. This is just what you'd think it to be, a way to get broken spells earlier than the wizards do. Nice to get some uber-metamagiced disjunction tho. # Abilities that grant class features from another class (such a turning undead, sneak attacks, or rage) should be about four levels behind what a character from that class gains. Okay, let me get this straight. Wild shape. Wild shape + binding is just crazy in a way more ways than you can imagine, sure you can take shapes of druid 4 levels less, but you get to keep your binds in those forms, gaining all kinds of broken stuff to boot. Other useful things that you could get with this include Divine Grace, binders usually like charisma. All in all, this is till subject to DM-fiat, but if you can get free hands from your DM.... |
| #31sirlavandinoApr 13, 2008 12:41:14 | srry i couldn't find Apostle of the Green Lady prestige class in the consolidated lists archive could u pls tell me exactly in what book/page they are? |
| #32jameswilliamogleApr 13, 2008 15:45:11 | srry i couldn't find Apostle of the Green Lady prestige class in the consolidated lists archive could u pls tell me exactly in what book/page they are? It is a custom class from the Paizo boards based on a character developed in the Age of Worms adventure path. See the consolidated binder handbook, 1st post, for a link (in my sig). |
| #33jameswilliamogleApr 13, 2008 15:52:20 | Could Someone explain how bloodlines affect EBL for me. Is it that a bloodline advances every class with the soul binding ability? Yes, by the RAW. DMs might houserule it otherwise, making it akin to Practiced Spellcaster, which would be reasonable. |
| #34jetstrike3000Apr 13, 2008 16:55:20 | Yes, by the RAW. DMs might houserule it otherwise, making it akin to Practiced Spellcaster, which would be reasonable. so if i took all 5 of the binder prcs for 1 level then 3bloodline levels would give me a 15 ebl +class ebls? |
| #35jameswilliamogleApr 13, 2008 17:21:26 | so if i took all 5 of the binder prcs for 1 level then 3bloodline levels would give me a 15 ebl +class ebls? You can't take Tenebrous Apostate and Knight of the Green Lady, both, as they require specific deities to worship (Tenebrous and Wee Jas, respectively). You also need two levels of Tenebrous Apostate or KotGL, as the first level doesn't advance soulbinding. But, a build like: Binder 2 / Bloodline 3 / arcane caster 1 / divine caster 1 / Anima Mage 3 / Tenebrous Apostate 4 / Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 / Scion of Dantalion 1 gives EBL 29 @ 20th level (14 from base classes, plus 15 from 5 classes that advance soulbinding X 3 bloodline levels). I do not suggest playing this beast, however. Much more reasonable is something like: Binder 2 / Bloodline 2 / Ardent 1 / Anima Mage (Psionic Adaptation) 10 / Knight of the Sacred Seal 5 gives EBL 22, Anima Mage goodies, and (more importantly) up to 9th level psionic powers (make sure to alternate Anima Mage and KoSS levels to get access to the highest level powers you want). The ML is 19 w/ Practiced Manifester (which is required). |
| #36jetstrike3000Apr 13, 2008 17:31:01 | Right so that answered my question it is actually an encounter for a group of optimized players i was looking at a 20 level build but wanted to make sure i understood the bloodline advancement. Thats all good and well now i just need to get him readied up. He starts out as a helpful NPC who becomes corrupt due to drugs (BoVD) and goes totally freaking nuts and eventually round 20th level tries to kill the party.... i figure itll make a good encounter |
| #37jameswilliamogleApr 13, 2008 17:32:51 | Right so that answered my question it is actually an encounter for a group of optimized players i was looking at a 20 level build but wanted to make sure i understood the bloodline advancement. Thats all good and well now i just need to get him readied up. He starts out as a helpful NPC who becomes corrupt due to drugs (BoVD) and goes totally freaking nuts and eventually round 20th level tries to kill the party.... i figure itll make a good encounter Sounds neat . Put up a build when you get the details worked out. |
| #38phoenix00Apr 13, 2008 21:40:47 | You can't take Tenebrous Apostate and Knight of the Green Lady, both, as they require specific deities to worship (Tenebrous and Wee Jas, respectively). You also need two levels of Tenebrous Apostate or KotGL, as the first level doesn't advance soulbinding. But, a build like: you need Ardent 2 before you can do Anima Mage for like TOB and stances you can only choose 1st level powers at level 1. So assuming the same build with 1 less level of KoSS Binder 2 / Bloodline 2 / Ardent 1 / Anima Mage (Psionic Adaptation) 10 / Knight of the Sacred Seal 4 you have an ebl of 21 at level 20 and 20th level manifester level. Problem is you only have 126+1/2*20*Ability Modifer power points. Assuming a 34 in wis (if you focused on wis) that is a total of 246 power points. Not bad but at the same time kinda limiting. |
| #39andyjamesApr 13, 2008 21:48:31 | Just a question: A venerable Dragonwrought Kobold can take Epic feats from level 1, but he doesn't actually meet the pre-requisites for all the Epic feats that I know (which usually needs something at 21st level...). So, how is that really an advantage? |
| #40sirlavandinoApr 13, 2008 22:22:34 | It is a custom class from the Paizo boards based on a character developed in the Age of Worms adventure path. See the consolidated binder handbook, 1st post, for a link (in my sig). ty ![]() is this the green lady vestige? http://paizo.com/dungeon/messageboards/ageOfWorms/theGreenLady&page=1#124451&source=search EDIT: to andyjames: is written in the draconomicon..."they can choose these feats even if they have no class levels" pg.66 |
| #41jameswilliamogleApr 13, 2008 22:27:05 | ty yup. |
| #42jameswilliamogleApr 13, 2008 22:28:48 | you need Ardent 2 before you can do Anima Mage for like TOB and stances The Power Points are a problem, for sure, but I don't think its that bad: Ardents work well as gishes, binders work well as gishes, and buffs usually have decent durations. I haven't explored all the options (I stopped looking into psionics long before CPsi, since no DM I've played with allowed them), but I think it really useful . |
| #43phoenix00Apr 13, 2008 22:45:34 | Just a question: see binding, effective binder level, soul binding, and bloodlines allowing you to gain ebl faster than you gaining levels. |
| #44andyjamesApr 13, 2008 23:08:16 | see binding, effective binder level, soul binding, and bloodlines allowing you to gain ebl faster than you gaining levels. Sorry, I was speaking in general. A Kobold Sorcerer, for example, needs Sorcerer level 18+ in most cases to meet the minimum Epic feat requirements (cast the highest level of spells), or Spellcraft ranks that is up the wazoo. So, what I am really asking is that the gaining Epic feats at level 1 feature of the DW Kobold isn't all that great an advantage, is it? DW Kobold is more for the +3 to all mental stat increase (and Loredrake)? |
| #45phoenix00Apr 13, 2008 23:23:33 | Sorry, I was speaking in general. A Kobold Sorcerer, for example, needs Sorcerer level 18+ in most cases to meet the minimum Epic feat requirements (cast the highest level of spells), or Spellcraft ranks that is up the wazoo. For most epic feats yes you are correct. Thing is not all epic feats are like that, and some of those epic feats are really, really good |
| #46sirlavandinoApr 13, 2008 23:46:22 | yup. but but but....is only somthing written on a flying board ![]() ? is that legal? there's maybe a pdf manual printable version of it? |
| #47sirlavandinoApr 13, 2008 23:56:16 | newbie question: but how do u raise spellcraft ranks to meet epic binders feat prerequisites? i understood how do u raise the ECL but how is this related to spellcraft ranks? ty |
| #48cowzrulApr 14, 2008 0:24:07 | Yes, by the RAW. DMs might houserule it otherwise, making it akin to Practiced Spellcaster, which would be reasonable. Shouldn't the bloodline levels have to be taken last, however? Seeing as how it states that you gain class abilities in classes that you have when you take the bloodline levels, the build as posted wouldn't get much benefit from it, but waiting to take them as the last three levels would incur a massive xp penalty along the way. Bloodlines aren't nearly as awesome as everyone makes them out to be, I think, as it pretty clearly doesn't allow one to take the levels and retroactively add the bonuses for the bloodline levels later on. The build that pheonix00 posted would have essentially all the abilities of a 4th level binder at 4th level, and everything would stack as normal after that. |
| #49phoenix00Apr 14, 2008 0:26:13 | newbie question: not all epic binder feats have knowledge requirements (their is no epic binder feat that requires spellcraft, most spellcasting feats though require spellcraft). You look for epic feats that don't require skill feats. --- For example while not a binder build this build is spectactular Dragonwrought Kobold with Loredrake and Draconic Reserivor Sorcerer 5/Mindbender 1/Ur Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 10/X 2 Casts as a 21st level sorcerer and have 10 levels of Ur Priest. Can start casting 9th level spells at level 15. Well for level 15 and 18 he can take improved spell capacity. Thus yielding him 10th and 11th level spells for Ur Priest, he can cast a 9th level spell in these slots or a higher metamagic version. (Assuming Elite Array which is 25 point buy, 8 Str, 10 Dex, 12 Con, 13 Int, 15 Wis, 14 Cha yielding these stats after aging, belt of magnifience, level ups and tomes/wishes 14 Str, 16 Dex, 18 Con, 22 Int, 34 Wis, 28 Cha) Yielding at level 20 Ur Priest 2 9th level spells=1+Bonus Spells (1) 2 10th level spells=1+Bonus Spells (1) 2 11th level spells=1+Bonus Spells (1) Sorcerer 7 9th level spells=6+Bonus Spells (1) 13 9th level spells at level 20 and faster access to a nonkobold Sorcerer for all levels of play (by over 1 level at all levels so you are learning new spells levels at least as fast as a wizard), and faster access to cleric spells starting level 13 on. |
| #50phoenix00Apr 14, 2008 0:30:38 | Bloodlines aren't nearly as awesome as everyone makes them out to be, I think, as it pretty clearly doesn't allow one to take the levels and retroactively add the bonuses for the bloodline levels later on. If its show clear please show it to me, exactly in the description of bloodlines where it says this. (Sarcasm off) Please stop pretending the stuff you pull out of your ass is how the rules work. Nothing in the bloodline description state what you describe. |
| #51jameswilliamogleApr 14, 2008 7:43:21 | Shouldn't the bloodline levels have to be taken last, however? Seeing as how it states that you gain class abilities in classes that you have when you take the bloodline levels, the build as posted wouldn't get much benefit from it, but waiting to take them as the last three levels would incur a massive xp penalty along the way. "Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels (such as caster level for spellcasting characters, or save DCs for characters with special abilities whose DCs are based on class level). The character doesn't gain any abilities, spells known, or spells per day from the addition of his bloodline levels, though—only the calculations of his level-based abilities are affected." That affects both existing classes and future classes gained. Its not a static bonus gained once, rather its continuous, as worded. |
| #52jameswilliamogleApr 14, 2008 7:47:03 | but but but....is only somthing written on a flying board As stated on the first page:
So, its up to your DM, but lots of folks consider it good for any Binder build (me included). JJ adds a lot of weight and validity to the class / vestige. |
| #53deimozzApr 14, 2008 9:10:58 | Correct me if i'm wrong but it seems to me you are almost impossible to kill when you bind Amun-her and even more so with the regeneration from Gaia. The only weaknesses I see are starvation and mindcontrol, wich can be fixed I believe. And if you bind the bronze god dude, this counts for your whole party because of the ability to soak up all forms of attacks/spells against them. |
| #54jetstrike3000Apr 14, 2008 10:28:46 | Correct me if i'm wrong but it seems to me you are almost impossible to kill when you bind Amun-her and even more so with the regeneration from Gaia. The only weaknesses I see are starvation and mindcontrol, wich can be fixed I believe. Right but there are a large majority of spoells at that level that out rigt destryoy you as well as what good caster doesnt just set you on fire at some point. I mean its not the end of the world, however it is very tough |
| #55cowzrulApr 14, 2008 11:17:47 | "Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels (such as caster level for spellcasting characters, or save DCs for characters with special abilities whose DCs are based on class level). The character doesn't gain any abilities, spells known, or spells per day from the addition of his bloodline levels, though—only the calculations of his level-based abilities are affected." I take that to mean that you include it as such, when you are taking the bloodline level, not forever after that. I mean, it's obviously still talking about the process of adding the bloodline level to the character, but I can see how you're arguing that it works forever, because it doesn't explicitly state that it doesn't. Edit: This is a RAW vs. RAI issue, I think, so feel free to drop it, as I'm quite aware that RAW rules here. If you interpret it the way I do, you can still do the same cheese, but you have less levels to cram multiple prestige classes, since you have to do the bloodlines last, and you take massive xp penalties, which sort of make up for the sick power of the bloodlne levels. |
| #56phoenix00Apr 14, 2008 12:19:15 | I repeat where does it say that you don't gain the benefits of bloodlines for any class/prc you take after bloodlines. It doesn't say it. In fact it says "Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels" |
| #57cowzrulApr 14, 2008 12:52:15 | I take that to mean that you include it as such, when you are taking the bloodline level, not forever after that. I mean, it's obviously still talking about the process of adding the bloodline level to the character, but I can see how you're arguing that it works forever, because it doesn't explicitly state that it doesn't. ![]() |
| #58nanshorkApr 14, 2008 13:03:53 | Actually he's saying that instead of just not saying that it doesn't, it says the exact opposite. |
| #59tsuyoshikentsuApr 14, 2008 13:04:07 | He was responding to the first part of that paragraph. The part that was still quite argumentative. |
| #60phoenix00Apr 14, 2008 13:07:21 | Actually he's saying that instead of just not saying that it doesn't, it says the exact opposite. Exactly |
| #61cowzrulApr 14, 2008 13:20:34 | Actually he's saying that instead of just not saying that it doesn't, it says the exact opposite. No, it's talking about adding the bloodline level. In my opinion, the way the bloodline levels were intended to work, is that you gain that bonus to whatever classes you have prior to taking the bloodline level. Why else is there a penalty for waiting to take them at later levels? The xp penalty was put in to try and prevent such abuse. |
| #62jetstrike3000Apr 14, 2008 15:18:42 | No, it's talking about adding the bloodline level. In my opinion, the way the bloodline levels were intended to work, is that you gain that bonus to whatever classes you have prior to taking the bloodline level. The XP penalty isnt even all that bad here bacause even if you wait if you are in a party once you fall a level behuind youll gain more exp per encounter and you should never become more than 1 or 2 levels behind the group and if your build is reasonable then this should be too horrible in most normal games as well as some partys may feel that the long term gain is extremely beneficial and not even care that your a bit behind. There is thread around here about how great being a level behind is. |
| #63tsuyoshikentsuApr 14, 2008 16:05:58 | No, it's talking about adding the bloodline level. In my opinion, the way the bloodline levels were intended to work, is that you gain that bonus to whatever classes you have prior to taking the bloodline level. No, I'm pretty sure the XP penalty was put in to prevent dipping. Also, I'm pretty sure that you're wrong. So since you seem to ignore the latter, I fully expect you to ignore the former. |
| #64cowzrulApr 14, 2008 17:23:49 | nvm |
| #65EytanBernsteinApr 18, 2008 21:49:32 | People asked for the DCs, so here they are: Gaia 39 Zuriel 43 Amun-her Khepeshef 47 Tkhaluuljin 49 |
| #66awaken_D_M_golemSep 24, 2008 18:02:27 | bump |