Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 darkpawn Mar 26, 2009 17:45:03	Going to be playing in a level 21 campaign soon and would like some ideas. I generally enjoy arcane casters (wizards mostly) but would like to maybe go divine caster. Maybe even in a druid? Guess I'm wondering what people have fun with and any cool concepts I might want to try out starting at level 21? Thanks in advance and I realize this is like a very broad and far reaching question.
#2 arogenith Mar 27, 2009 1:15:02	it is very broad, but if you're planning on starting epic and want both, then I'd probably look at some dual casting progression +abjurant champion 5 +divine power. Cleric/Druid 3, wiz 3, Mystic theurge 10 (though its probably not optimized at all) abjurant champion 5. You won't start off with lvl 9s, though I'm pretty sure by that level you easily could (I generally stick away from casters so I'm not terribly knowledgeable on that topic) On the bright side you'll be able to cast level 9 arcane 'or' divine spells, and 7th level of the other, along with having a caster level of 21 for each of those spells (both arcane and divine) Just an idea, there are many other possibilities, try to be more specific (campaign settings, books available, what you're looking for, etc)
#3 reis Mar 27, 2009 6:54:34	gargantuan-->colossal, vermin/plant/improved elemental/dragon wild shape is pretty cool for an epic druid, epic spellcasting can be pretty powerful too druid 21 is actually as solid a epic build as you can get really because you'll be gaining a lot of bonus epic feats which are very potent for a druid.
#4 reis Mar 27, 2009 6:59:32	I'd probably look at some dual casting progression the problem is the epic mystic theurge (and presumably all dual casting progressions) looks like this: Spells When an odd-numbered mystic theurge level above 10th is gained she gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), as if she had gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class she belonged to previously, up to the maximum spells per day and spells known by that class. Her caster level in that class also increases by +1. When an even-numbered mystic theurge level above 10th is gained she gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable), as if she had gained a level in a divine spellcasting class she belonged to previously, up to the maximum spells per day and spells known by that class. Her caster level in that class also increases by +1. not a total killer but being only base CL 25 at 30th level is somewhat of a major drawback
#5 hijaxx Mar 27, 2009 9:39:19	If mystic theurge work like that, is there ANY reason you shouldn't just alternate between levels of the base divine and arcane classes?
#6 reis Mar 27, 2009 9:43:18	at 16th mystic theurge level you get a bonus epic feat lame, i agree
#7 jameswilliamogle Mar 27, 2009 9:57:32	gargantuan-->colossal, vermin/plant/improved elemental/dragon wild shape is pretty cool for an epic druid, epic spellcasting can be pretty powerful too druid 21 is actually as solid a epic build as you can get really because you'll be gaining a lot of bonus epic feats which are very potent for a druid. I'll second this. I played a Cleric 1 / Druid 33 in a game once (with the DMM: Persistant cheese). It was a bad game already, and this ruined it.
#8 grifter730_dup Mar 27, 2009 10:29:28	Wiz3/Druid3/Mystic Theurge2/Arcane Hierophant10/Mystic Theurge2 Lvl 9 Wizard spells, lvl 9 druid spells. With feats/items, you can have an animal companion of a lvl 16 druid (up to level 20 if using Dragon Mag), and wildshape as a lvl 16 druid. Go epic Arcane Hierophant for your level 21.
#9 darkpawn Mar 27, 2009 13:34:22	I like the concept of trying out a druid. Any planar sheperd builds out there? Heard that is a pretty sick PrC although I don't know why.
#10 phaedrusxy Mar 27, 2009 14:07:24	It was a bad game already, and this ruined it. I like the concept of trying out a druid. Any planar sheperd builds out there? Heard that is a pretty sick PrC although I don't know why. There is an entire handbook for it. You can find it via the Handy Links at the top of the page, I'm sure. That class is potentially broken beyond belief, depending on which plane you pick. You get to use the SLAs of outsiders that you wild shape into, which can get you free wishes, etc. You can also get insane things like a "flowing time bubble" around you that gets you 10 actions for every 1 the enemy takes.
#11 dr_rocktopus Mar 27, 2009 14:18:58	Basically, if you take planar shepherd, you have to eat your dice.
#12 darkpawn Mar 27, 2009 20:09:57	Basically, if you take planar shepherd, you have to eat your dice. Hahaha, okay point taken. Well then give me some other fun ideas. I have never really played an epic level character and want to try something fun and potentially lethal. It doesn't have to be a god-like character, but druid, cleric or wizard are tasty. How about an Ultimate Magus build? Someone was telling me there were builds of UM that actually at level 20 gave you 9th level casting ability.
#13 atomickitkat Mar 27, 2009 20:21:04	Mystic Theurge type classes are alright. The trick is taking them up to just before whichever level they stop giving out dual casting progression, then switch to the other one(assuming you somehow qualify for more than one, which you usually can.). So you take Arcane Heirophant to 10, then Mystic Theurge to 10, followed by...? Yeah, not that many I can name offhand. True Necromancers go halfsies for the first couple levels, then dual for a few, and repeat the pattern.
#14 Balthanon Mar 27, 2009 22:20:10	Fochlucan Lyrist is another, though that one is painful to qualify for.
#15 sofawall Mar 27, 2009 22:35:30	Very painful. Although massing dual casting progressions, dip into a bunch of them, then bloodlines... Mmm... Tasty... Yeah, I'm a huge fan of bloodlines for 20th level builds since xp penalties don't really apply to them (for the most part) and you can just dip a ton of classes that progress the same thing, then bloodline it up! Great for Gestalt too.
#16 Balthanon Mar 27, 2009 23:15:31	Epic Warlock feats are very nice if you want to play around with something less standard. Warlock 6/Cleric 4/Eldritch Disciple 10 picks up 7th level divine spells and dark invocations. Which means that your first feat at 21st level can be almost any of the epic warlock feats (like Shadowcaster, which lets you pick up shades at will.)
#17 arogenith Mar 28, 2009 0:55:17	if you go druid instead of cleric-type-class for Mystic Theurge, then the requirements for Fochluchan lyrist is only a 1 level rogue dip, and bardis music like ability, or just a 1-level bard dip, 2/21 levels isn't bad for another 10 levels of 2 spellcasting classes. Then after, go for arcane hirophant, I'm sure epic level divine AND arcane spells sooner rather then later is a big bonus. Then take a level of cleric for your DMM persists, and 3-level that arcane trickster (I think its called) for a free 4- level metamagic bonus 1/day just to powerup your wish spells or something (twinspell wish/miracle? sweet) Grab incantrix whenever possible, my god, looks disgusting by level 30 or so:P Then spellwarp sniper by level 40, more rogue levels till level 50 & take that feat in complete scoundrel that increases your rogue abilities, sneak attack with your epic spells, etc. Most likely not optimized (I get interesting ideas, but never manage the max optimization) but still sounds fun to play as/when you get there. Anyways, time to finish off this booze, good luck with your epic char!!
#18 Senevri Mar 28, 2009 4:18:23	Yeah, I'm a huge fan of bloodlines for 20th level builds since xp penalties don't really apply to them (for the most part) and you can just dip a ton of classes that progress the same thing, then bloodline it up! Wouldn't this completely screw you for EPIC play, however? Or is there something about bloodlines which negate XP penalties?
#19 reis Mar 28, 2009 7:25:10	also you miss out on bonus epic feats which is a not inconsiderable loss.
#20 darkpawn Mar 28, 2009 8:05:45	Well I imagine the campaign will start out at level 21, we'll probably get tossed into the planes or if I know the DM well enough, Ravenloft or some other (I win DM setting). I would expect us to play from 21 to maybe level 30 or so tops. We would play about once a week and I would guess we would level up once every two or three weeks of playing. I'm sure after a six months to a year tops, the DM will want to start playing something new. Right now I'm kind of leaning towards an Ultimate Magus build. I like the ability to cast 9th level spells at 21st level and have a good amount of sorceror spells I can burn for free metamagic. Just need to find out what to do after level 21 and if there is way to level up both casting abilities past 21. Also, need to find some good feats to go with.
#21 arogenith Mar 28, 2009 9:31:24	anything magical requires Divine Metamagics or Incantrix, if you're planning to optimize...er...*cough* in my humble opinion
#22 reis Mar 28, 2009 10:12:21	epic incantatrix is indeed one of the most powerful epic class progressions for play from 21-30, since your spellcraft mod can be elevated very high indeed, you get a free improved metamagic feat, and with all those instant metamagics you can unleash some really crazy effects on the cheap
#23 chibishuffle Mar 28, 2009 10:16:35	I really think straight druid 21 is very win. Its really self explanatory wildshape, good saves, etc. Ravenloft changes a lot of things if you get sent there. First things first tie up the paladin and leave his ass somewhere as far away from you as possible. Depending on what version of the setting your DM is using the paladin could be a HUGE liability. Baring Ravenloft however planar travel can be fun look at the planar sub levels in planar handbook Im not sure if they are any good but it can't hurt to see. Really though putting all the extraneous things aside 21 levels of straight druid is awesome. It's like having your cake, eating it too and then finding the stripper at the bottom awesome.
#24 grifter730_dup Mar 28, 2009 13:50:42	Ravenloft changes a lot of things if you get sent there. First things first tie up the paladin and leave his ass somewhere as far away from you as possible. Depending on what version of the setting your DM is using the paladin could be a HUGE liability. Not too familiar with Ravenloft, but I imagined that a paladin would be helpful since you're fighting undeads? What's with the paladin hate? Explain?
#25 reis Mar 28, 2009 14:09:08	the lord of a ravenloft domain can sense a paladin's location from a distance of paladin's class level/miles, i think. with semidivine power.
#26 darkpawn Mar 28, 2009 14:47:51	Okay then give me a pimp Druid build!
#27 jameswilliamogle Mar 28, 2009 18:16:40	Okay then give me a pimp Druid build! Druid 1 Skill Focus: Diplomacy 3 Skill Focus: Intimidate 6 Improved Unarmed Strike 9 Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike 12 Improved Grapple 15 Skill Focus: Bluff 18 Leadership Diplomacy to get more money for your girls, Bluff to tell them they're your world, Intimidate to get them to give you yo money. Improved Unarmed Strike is for when you gotta slap a ho, and grapple for beatin' them when they ain't bringing the dough. EDIT: This gives me an idea for a weird Dragon Shaman character...
#28 atomickitkat Mar 29, 2009 10:53:02	LOL@PimpDruid.
#29 darkpawn Mar 29, 2009 11:53:45	Druid 1 Skill Focus: Diplomacy 3 Skill Focus: Intimidate 6 Improved Unarmed Strike 9 Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike 12 Improved Grapple 15 Skill Focus: Bluff 18 Leadership Diplomacy to get more money for your girls, Bluff to tell them they're your world, Intimidate to get them to give you yo money. Improved Unarmed Strike is for when you gotta slap a ho, and grapple for beatin' them when they ain't bringing the dough. EDIT: This gives me an idea for a weird Dragon Shaman character... ROFLMAO!! That isn't exactly what I had in mind but frick'n hilarious nonetheless!
#30 sofawall Mar 29, 2009 12:19:19	Druid 1 Skill Focus: Diplomacy 3 Skill Focus: Intimidate 6 Improved Unarmed Strike 9 Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike 12 Improved Grapple 15 Skill Focus: Bluff 18 Leadership Diplomacy to get more money for your girls, Bluff to tell them they're your world, Intimidate to get them to give you yo money. Improved Unarmed Strike is for when you gotta slap a ho, and grapple for beatin' them when they ain't bringing the dough. EDIT: This gives me an idea for a weird Dragon Shaman character... You silly literalist. But, his post did warrant such a response. I mean, that's basically exactly what NOT to do when asking for a build. He could have asked for a summoning druid, or a BC druid, or a wildshape druid, but no, he asked for a pimp druid. And that is what he got.
#31 dawnmor Mar 29, 2009 12:31:40	Oh this is Ironic because im in the same boat except this my thoughts are 24-25th lvl epic campaign with a Cruel DM lol. Literally cruel! when DMing, its insane, but anyways ......... If you go with the Eldritch disciple, and even tho what Balthanon suggested is typical, its not neccessarily true. After perusing my own books I found a nice Base class called the Shaman from Oriental Adventures, not Spirit shaman, Spirit shamans, Suck IMO. But SHAMAN! from Oriental Adventures!!!! Here is why Shaman's rule . Improved Unarmed strike, Cha to Base saves (5th lvl required for this one), Animal companion, Spontaneous caster's and thats just from what I remember off hand, theirs tons more goodies. Spell's are pretty sucky but then again they are great. Suck but good. So try a Monk 1, Warlock 3, Shaman 5, Elritch disciple 10, Shaman 1, or some other PrC that enhances Casting. Take Vow of Poverty (Im in a VOP mood.). Keep Dex, Wis, Cha high, grab Kobold Dragonwrought Venerable. Depending on what you want to do, if you want to concentrate on casting, keep Wis and Cha high, Dex will help to hit things with your ED. Wis governs how many shaman spells you can get, Cha governs your DC for both Warlock and shaman spells. If you want to add more fun into the mix, dont take VOP until lvl 18, take advantage of those books/tomes/manual's to raise your Dex, wis, cha, then take Vow of poverty . Or throw out the Kobold idea and go pixie, but pixie is their for the stat's more then anything. But the Kobold has more to offer Flavor and fun wise. After all you dont see all that many Chaotic Pixies do you? Or go Unarmed Variant Swordsage/shaman (OA)/RKV/Shaman. After all, the RKV can be adapted for a swordsage, all you need is turn undead which you already get from shaman. Ohh the fun you can have with this!. Grab Practice spell caster too lol. Same strategy as above but different classes, but this type is more melee oriented while the one on top is more Ranged oriented.
#32 darkpawn Mar 29, 2009 20:27:42	You silly literalist. But, his post did warrant such a response. I mean, that's basically exactly what NOT to do when asking for a build. He could have asked for a summoning druid, or a BC druid, or a wildshape druid, but no, he asked for a pimp druid. And that is what he got. What is a BC Druid?
#33 sofawall Mar 29, 2009 20:42:22	Battlefield control. See: Entangle :D
#34 dr_rocktopus Mar 30, 2009 7:46:16	Okay, Druids. Druids, man, druids. There was more to this post, but instead I'm just going to direct you to the master of many forms handbook for general advice, the aberrant wild shape feat, the assume supernatural ability feat (savage species, pg 30), and the gibbering orb. Because, yeah, let's talk about madness aurashahawuwoelalwowle! whhhooooi!
#35 innabinder Mar 30, 2009 8:13:53	Fochlucan Lyrist idea: Rilkan (Magic of Incarnum) Rogue 3/Wizard 2/Druid 5/Fochlucan Lyrist 11. You would need to use the 3rd level Racial Substitution for Rilkan Rogue to qualify this way. Dump STR. As usual with dual-caster progression classes (except well built Anima Mages, often), Practiced Caster x2 is a good idea.
#36 darkpawn Mar 30, 2009 8:18:03	Is the Planar Shepherd completely broken? Is there anyway to play one without being completely broken? I ask because I really like the concept of a Planeswalker Druid, over the hug a tree or bear druid. Mainly because trees have rough bark that scratches my pale acne conquered face and bears have a nasty habit of ripping my head off. I guess I'm wondering if certain chosen planes (non-Eberron maybe), would have not completely broken abilities?
#37 dr_rocktopus Mar 30, 2009 9:10:48	It would probably actually be difficult to play a non-broken shepherd. I wish I was kidding, but I'm seriously not. I mean, what if you pick Mechanus, thinking that order will be lovely? Oooops, it's Marut-o-clock, or Quarut-hour. God help you if you pick limbo, or gehenna or the outlands or or or or ::sob::
#38 darkpawn Mar 30, 2009 9:13:10	It would probably actually be difficult to play a non-broken shepherd. I wish I was kidding, but I'm seriously not. I mean, what if you pick Mechanus, thinking that order will be lovely? Oooops, it's Marut-o-clock, or Quarut-hour. God help you if you pick limbo, or gehenna or the outlands or or or or ::sob:: So no hope at all? Can't even self gimp myself or toss ability to use Spell-Like Abilities? I really don't care if I remove that and all time and trait aspects of the home plane too.
#39 reis Mar 30, 2009 9:13:55	If you want to play a non broken planar shephard, I would suggest you sit down with your DM and the faiths of eberron book and work out a good way to incorporate into your campaign's cosmology that makes sense and doesn't allow you access to broken stuff like 10:1 time ratios. one suggestion i'd make is that you rule that wild shaping into an outsider with spellcasting or spell-like abilities does not grant you those abilities. It's not clear to me that this is RAW anyways.
#40 dr_rocktopus Mar 30, 2009 9:24:24	That would be what one would need to do, yes. You'd need to find out from your GM which cosmology you are using, as there are now three or four different ones. As long as you don't do something horrible like pick the astral, and you play gently, you ought to be okay.
#41 reis Mar 30, 2009 9:48:18	the other thing to think about is what is "broken" in your epic campaign? How "epic" will the challenges be and to what degree will you need to optimize to survive and find success against them. To some degree what is "broken" in many nonepic campaigns may be necessary to your survival in an epic one. If you go with Planar Shephard it seems like a no-brainer to take Epic Spellcasting relatively soon. The uses of epic spells range from the relatively lame to the very broken indeed depending on how your DM adjucates the use of seeds and DC adjustments as well as modifiers to spellcraft. I would suggest reading the thread on this forum "The Iron Siege" for a glimpse into just how far epic level play can be taken.
#42 hijaxx Mar 30, 2009 9:56:25	seriously, reis's right. once you get into epic levels, all sortsa things can happen. Random encounter mob: "nice 1:10 time ratio you have there!" Planar shepherd: "thanks, but thats nothing. my class i broken, you see" Random encounter mob: "i see. check out my double dual actions+quick combination. 12 actions per round!" planar shepherd: "oh im so scared. did i mention i can transform into epic ousiders and gain their SLAs?" Random encounter mob: "no i dont think so. did i mention i permanently emanates an antimagic field?" *obliterates planar shepherd"
#43 dr_rocktopus Mar 30, 2009 10:01:47	Basically, there's no real similarity in power levels between normal play and epic level play. Talk with your GM to figure out how hard you need to hit, because it may be that you will really need every bit of power you can eke out of your class choices. That said, planar shepherd is bizarre and disgusting. But it may be that you will need all that power.
#44 darkpawn Mar 30, 2009 10:05:48	Well I know I nor other PCs will have or will get Epic Spell Casting. It is not allowed for PCs. Unsure about NPCs. As for the 1:10 time tricks, that will also not be allowed. The time traits will not be in effect. I'm thinking at most I'll get a spell extended or empowered from the bubble. As for SLAs, that might be allowed by I know I will not get to cast spells as the creature. For example if I turn into a Solar, I will not get to cast spells at a 20th level cleric. Other then that I'm not sure what he'll allow or disallow yet.
#45 reis Mar 30, 2009 10:06:21	I think we need a comprehensive list of what your DM will or won't allow then in order to offer further advice, ask him to put it in writing.
#46 arogenith Mar 30, 2009 14:21:34	Druid 1 Skill Focus: Diplomacy 3 Skill Focus: Intimidate 6 Improved Unarmed Strike 9 Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike 12 Improved Grapple 15 Skill Focus: Bluff 18 Leadership Diplomacy to get more money for your girls, Bluff to tell them they're your world, Intimidate to get them to give you yo money. Improved Unarmed Strike is for when you gotta slap a ho, and grapple for beatin' them when they ain't bringing the dough. Pimp druid is epic. Literally, he just hasn't chosen that level 21 feat yet. Something to do with the hand crossbow, which he could then hold sideways? Wouldn't this completely screw you for EPIC play, however? Or is there something about bloodlines which negate XP penalties? Fochlucan Lyrist level 1 actually "no xp penalties for you anymore sir. Also as a druid, you can wear metal". I think its a pretty nice 1 level dip if you want bloodlines, hard to get into though, so maby more then one level. or just combining the prereq classes to make a druid that sneaks up on people and then bursts into song
#47 darkpawn Mar 30, 2009 14:24:16	I think we need a comprehensive list of what your DM will or won't allow then in order to offer further advice, ask him to put it in writing. Haha, I could indeed do that, and ask an attorney to be present just in case! ;) I think what I just outlined above is the extend of the limitations. To be honest, I'd just like to turn into something that would allow me to have nice strength and dexterity, a flight ability of some type, the ability to cast druid spells, and wear/use magical items I currently possess. If I could have a few SLA, SU, and EX abilities that were utility or just plain fun, I'd again be thrilled to death! I would love to just turn into an of some type and make the ladies swoon.
#48 hijaxx Mar 30, 2009 14:34:08	spellcasting, wildshaping, and using magical items at once eh? a 1-level dip into master of many forms, combined with still spell, will allow you to cast spells when wildshaped. i dont have time now, ill get back to this later.
#49 darkpawn Mar 30, 2009 14:47:56	spellcasting, wildshaping, and using magical items at once eh? a 1-level dip into master of many forms, combined with still spell, will allow you to cast spells when wildshaped. i dont have time now, ill get back to this later. Hehe, I guess I'm not asking for much huh? Can I be an too while I do it? I've always wanted to play a planetar or astral deva, or yes even a solar someday.
#50 darkpawn Mar 30, 2009 20:42:11	I'm thinking 5 levels of druid, then 9 (maybe 10) of planar shepherd, then 5 or 6 of Druid or something else. 9 levels of planar shepherd gets you the important stuff. The 10th level doesn't seem that useful, you get another planar bubble and planar self. The only real loss is the extra use of planar bubble it seems but planar self is pretty much worthless since you can wildshape into things that get better damage resistance. At level 21 maybe just: 12 Druid/9 Planar Shepherd. Any other PrCs that would mesh well and not give up caster levels?
#51 houkama Mar 31, 2009 8:32:24	You can definitely be an angel as a planar shepherd. It's one of the most balanced (not compared to other players, just as far as overall versatility) forms in my opinion. I think Druid 12/PS 9 sounds swell. I'd add that Abberation WS + Assume SU Ability + Improved Assume SU Ability + Choker = 2 standard action spells per round. Great for getting the buffs out at the beginning of a fight. Also, may I recommend the Dream Dwarf from Races of Stone. And grabbing a couple levels of Deepwarden. Trading Con to AC instead of Dex will send certain forms AC's through the roof. The MIC has an item that lets you keep your gear from melting into you, the Wilding Clasp 4000 gold. At mid level play their expensive, but now they're great. Also, since Wild armor doesn't give you ACP's Wild Dragonhide Mountain Plate is a sweet choice.
#52 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 8:46:28	If you do not purchase wilding clasps for every item you wear, Gleemax will find you while you sleep. ;)
#53 darkpawn Mar 31, 2009 10:52:14	If you do not purchase wilding clasps for every item you wear, Gleemax will find you while you sleep. ;) What are wilding clasps?? I don't want Gleemax haunting me!!
#54 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 11:33:19	What are wilding clasps?? I don't want Gleemax haunting me!! It won't be so bad. Mostly it\we will just bum around for a while and try to get you to play DnD and maybe order some pizza. More seriously, Wilding Clasps are sort of essential items for druids planning to abuse wildshaping, found on Pg 190 of the MIC, and they allow you to keep using any item you tie one of them to. They produce such things as a cybernetic dire lion (via a warforged primeval with warfists) and many other tasty tidbits.
#55 darkpawn Mar 31, 2009 13:36:39	It won't be so bad. Mostly it\we will just bum around for a while and try to get you to play DnD and maybe order some pizza. Yikes it sounds like my in-laws, minus the playing DnD! More seriously, Wilding Clasps are sort of essential items for druids planning to abuse wildshaping, found on Pg 190 of the MIC, and they allow you to keep using any item you tie one of them to. They produce such things as a cybernetic dire lion (via a warforged primeval with warfists) and many other tasty tidbits. Hmm, sounds tasty indeed! ;)
#56 phaedrusxy Mar 31, 2009 14:17:26	You want to take all 10 levels of Planar Shepard, so you can go Epic Planar Shepard at 21 for bonus epic feats.
#57 darkpawn Mar 31, 2009 14:23:07	You want to take all 10 levels of Planar Shepard, so you can go Epic Planar Shepard at 21 for bonus epic feats. Where do you find Epic Planar Shepherd?
#58 phaedrusxy Mar 31, 2009 15:09:07	Where do you find Epic Planar Shepherd? I don't know if there is one, but you could probably make one up with your DM and the rules in the ELH, if there is a standard progression pattern for its abilities. Any PrC with 10+ levels is supposed to be able to taken as an epic PrC, I think.
#59 darkpawn Mar 31, 2009 17:44:21	I don't know if there is one, but you could probably make one up with your DM and the rules in the ELH, if there is a standard progression pattern for its abilities. Any PrC with 10+ levels is supposed to be able to taken as an epic PrC, I think. O.I.C......well anyone have a suggestion for Epic Planar Shepherd? At least levels 21 through 25, that would be immensely helpful.
#60 dr_rocktopus Mar 31, 2009 18:45:39	21-You may make up new outsiders to occupy your plane of choice. 22-You may research, free of pre-requisites, one spell from the demi-plane epic seed. 23-You have grasped the alignment of the stars in their heavens, and know of things that should not be. 24-Cthulhu F'taghn! 25-A strange scrawl of numbers and letters occupy this line. You are filled with primordial dread. I've attempted to maintain a sense of continuity with the existing power level of the planar shepherd. :coolcthul
#61 darkpawn Mar 31, 2009 18:52:29	21-You may make up new outsiders to occupy your plane of choice. 22-You may research, free of pre-requisites, one spell from the demi-plane epic seed. 23-You have grasped the alignment of the stars in their heavens, and know of things that should not be. 24-Cthulhu F'taghn! 25-A strange scrawl of numbers and letters occupy this line. You are filled with primordial dread. I've attempted to maintain a sense of continuity with the existing power level of the planar shepherd. :coolcthul :heehee :heehee :heehee
#62 darkpawn Apr 01, 2009 16:28:32	How about an epic progression that instead of letting you destroy gods by winking at them, allows you to cast planeshift more and/or a few bonus feats?
#63 dawnmor Apr 02, 2009 18:29:35	How do you push up your Turn undead ability in epic play?
#64 Balthanon Apr 03, 2009 0:31:55	How about an epic progression that instead of letting you destroy gods by winking at them, allows you to cast planeshift more and/or a few bonus feats? This should work. Bonus feats are probably any of the wild feats, plus some of the spellcasting ones. 1 - 2 - Plane Shift 3/day 3 - 4 - Bonus Feat 5 - Planar Bubble 5/day 6 - Plane Shift 4/day 7 - 8 - Bonus Feat 9 - 0 - Plane Shift 5/day, Planar Bubble 7/day
#65 darkpawn Apr 03, 2009 12:05:28	This should work. Bonus feats are probably any of the wild feats, plus some of the spellcasting ones. 1 - 2 - Plane Shift 3/day 3 - 4 - Bonus Feat 5 - Planar Bubble 5/day 6 - Plane Shift 4/day 7 - 8 - Bonus Feat 9 - 0 - Plane Shift 5/day, Planar Bubble 7/day Thank you. This is helpful.
#66 darkpawn Apr 03, 2009 14:53:51	Is Warshaper pretty amazing for a Druid build? I'm wondering if I should go level 10 Druid/10 Planar Shepherd, then look at taking Warshaper during epic level progression? Anyone have any experience with Warshaper and what do they bring to the table?
#67 Balthanon Apr 03, 2009 17:56:20	So long as you have the practiced spellcaster feat it isn't really going to harm your spellcasting to take Warshaper during epic and most of the abilities are at least equal to an epic feat. Druid 10/Planar Shephard 10/Warshaper 5 will be more than decent.
#68 Endarire Apr 03, 2009 20:07:21	Doubly-Flawed Bamboo Spirit Folk Martial Conjurer1/Archivist2/Mystic TheurgeX/Arcane HierophantX You need Heighten Spell and either Easy Metamagic: Heighten, Metamagic School Focus: Conjuration, or some other means of getting spells early. This way you have lots and lots of spells all keyed off INT. Nab a Sacred Exorcist level for Divine Metamagic fun. Alternatively, take Wild Talent and Psionic Meditation (Expanded Psionics Handbook) as well as Midnight Metamagic and Psycarnum Infusion (Magic of Incarnum). You need another metamagic feat like Quicken to fully exploit this, but you can auto quicken 1 spell every round at your level.
#69 darkpawn Apr 03, 2009 20:14:54	Doubly-Flawed Bamboo Spirit Folk Martial Conjurer1/Archivist2/Mystic TheurgeX/Arcane HierophantX You need Heighten Spell and either Easy Metamagic: Heighten, Metamagic School Focus: Conjuration, or some other means of getting spells early. This way you have lots and lots of spells all keyed off INT. Nab a Sacred Exorcist level for Divine Metamagic fun. Alternatively, take Wild Talent and Psionic Meditation (Expanded Psionics Handbook) as well as Midnight Metamagic and Psycarnum Infusion (Magic of Incarnum). You need another metamagic feat like Quicken to fully exploit this, but you can auto quicken 1 spell every round at your level. Nice....although I'm leaning toward a few options as of now. One is Ultimate Magus with something. Another is Dread Necromancer, maybe with True Necromancer and/or Ur-Priest. Third is Planar Shepherd. Fourth is Cleric, geared toward necromancy. Fifth....nothing yet but looking.
#70 darkpawn Apr 03, 2009 20:32:25	I'm actually leaning heavily toward a Kobold Ultimate Magus..
#71 reis Apr 03, 2009 21:03:21	are white dragonspawn/(greater) draconic rite of passage open to you?
#72 darkpawn Apr 03, 2009 21:34:34	are white dragonspawn/(greater) draconic rite of passage open to you? Probably, why?
#73 reis Apr 03, 2009 23:01:00	because they are incredibly good for any kind of kobold sorcerer build, I'm sure others can elaborate
#74 kell_kheraptis Apr 07, 2009 7:16:40	My psionically based iconic is going to be conducting a massive experiment akin to Deep Thought's formation of the earth (and technically also Magrathea's construction as well, through genesis and others) by building and populating a demiplane, and letting it blossom for several thousand years. Here's the kicker though : a massive, long running (read : permanent) mindlink with everything on the plane. End result when I ascend will be a unique SDA, but currently it is an endless source of lore :D
#75 hijaxx Apr 07, 2009 13:29:58	make sure to pick up legacy champion if going UM.
#76 darkpawn Apr 07, 2009 15:47:43	make sure to pick up legacy champion if going UM. Where is it out of and why?
#77 hijaxx Apr 08, 2009 10:08:08	from weapons of legacy. it lets you keep advancing both arcane spellcasting classes after you maxed UM. of course you can continue to advance UM after you reach epic, but until then legacy champion is nice. there is a thread in my sig about LC.
#78 darkpawn Apr 08, 2009 13:23:25	from weapons of legacy. it lets you keep advancing both arcane spellcasting classes after you maxed UM. of course you can continue to advance UM after you reach epic, but until then legacy champion is nice. there is a thread in my sig about LC. Gotcha.....I'll take a look at it. I've got beguiler, diviner, master specialist, ultimate magus, incantatrix, archmage already in the build. Not sure if I can handle adding yet another one.