Greetings, and welcome to the first in what I hope to be a long series in COing a particularly obscure PrC that I'm sure many of you have never heard of, played, seen played or even have access to in your games.
I'm of course talking about the Ambient Tempest PrC from the Bestiary of Krynn. As a licensed WotC product, I'm to understand that it's generally considered "fair game' in many campaigns, with the DM's approval of course.
Let's start on the pre-reqs: Pretty steep. 9 Ranks in Knowledge Arcanna, which you would have anyway, and likewise 9 ranks in Spellcraft. So far not bad.
Next, you must have either 4 feats from a specific list, or 2 from the list and a supernatural or spell-like ability. I'm refraining from copying large sections of the text, even though I'm pretty sure WotC isn't going to lose too much money on this book that probably isn't even in print anymore and 4.0 is coming out. Suffice it to say, they're not that great.
Anyways, after taking some obnoxious feats that are not that great, let's take a look at what we get; aye carumba we LOSE a spellcasting level!
Yes brothers, I understand this is one of the deadly sins of the Char-Op boards, but rest assured, we will have that all back AND MORE once we're done!
What do we get for giving up a caster level? Not very much. Our first level in Ambient Tempest gives us "Shifting Knowledge" - this allows us once per week to spend 1 hour swapping in a new spell known for any other spell 2 levels lower. Hmm, not very good.
Ah, but what does the ever-so-important second level give us?
You gain a choice of several "Ambient Secrets" one of which is an improvement to our base "Shifting Knowledge" ability.
What is this new ability that's worth 2-4 suboptimal feats AND the loss of a caster level?
Improved Shifting. Exact wording incomming: "The AT is no longer subject to level limitations on the spell that he can shift in and out of his known spells."
Bam. 9th level spells at 8th character level! (If only)
Ok, not exactly. You cannot cast spells above where your description says you have access to. But there are a couple of nifty abilities.
Remember how I said you get to swap a new spell 1 time per week? If you continue taking levels in AT, you can swap up to 3 spells per week. Dropping cantrips for more spells known at your highest spells possible is nice.
Suck it wizards, suck it long and hard. EACH WEEK you can get new, higher level spells, or even swap any spells known for any other spells known. Up to three at a time.
The other ability worth mentioning is called "Spell Shaping". It allows you to reduce the effect of Enlarge/Extend/Widen Metamagic feats by 50%. It ALSO reduces the spell slot by 1 level. So you can combo this to realistically get higher level spells than you should be able to cast at your current level.
Now that you know, I'm POSITIVE something can be done to really optimize this further. Things that grant extra higher level spell and Meta-magic effects that lower spell slots level make this brutal. You can be Arcane Thesis/Spell Shaping spells early to make PrC pre-reqs possibly.
More suggestions please!
I know this can be taken extremely further as I have barely scratched the surface.
I edited for extreme oversight thinking I could do something I could not. Thank goodness for the more awake people on the boards. However, I still think there's potential here.
I've been looking a it for quite a while and it seems quite clear.
I'm meeting all three conditions as far as I can tell, namely:
1) I KNOW the spell.
2) I have enough Charisma to cast the spell.
3) I have a spell slot for that level spell.
I think you should re-read the Sorc section of the PHB and see what you think. If you can come back and give me a concrete reason against my argument.
What you've said is fundamentally flawed.
You might have a CHA score high enough to get a bonus spell but until you are actually able to cast the level of spells you can't use it.
All you need to CAST a level 9 spell as a Sorc is 19 Cha. Notice how I stress the act of CASTING.
That says nothing about KNOWING or having the SPELL SLOT capacity for such a spell.
In this build, I cover all three points.
The ability that governs bonus spells depends on what type of spellcaster your character is: Intelligence for wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers; or Charisma for sorcerers and bards. In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level.
Emphasis mine.
Can you point to a relevant piece of game text that confirms that?
Looks like 22_Over_7 got it.
If the sorceror has a "-" his 9th level column, he cannot cast ANY spells from that level. Even with bonus spells from a high Charisma.
Gah, page 7 of PHB. So basic
Foiled by want of jumping to conclusions!
Alright, so it's not perfect.
It's still useable, however. You still can "know" the spell. And with meta-magic, you can get the spell level down to a level of spell you CAN cast at.
So with Arcane Thesis+Spell Shaping...you can still cast a spell 2 levels higher than you should be able to, albeit the spell will be limited and you've lost a caster level for not much.
Sigh.
I have to dig around for some other PrC's that need access to higher level spells quickly, with no rank requirements if that's possible. It might still be possible to get into a PrC a level or two early.
I guess the ability to burn your cantrips into your highest level spell's cast-able isn't a half bad ability either for later in the game.
I saw access to third level spells at first level I believe. So I KNOW there is something absurdly abusable here, that's why I came bearing this gift and seeking CO knowledge!
:0
Ok I found the link here. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15274003#post15274003
Ambient Tempest is for spontaneous casters, however.
There might be some VERY interesting cheese possible with a multi-classed Wiz/Sorc exchanging Cantrips for higher level spells although obviously caster level would suffer...but I'm sure there are some feats/PrC's that could easily remedy that.
Versatile Spellcaster Feat takes this to 3 spell levels higher. So a 12 level character, with the pre-req feats and Versatile Spellcaster+Arcane Thesis could cast an 8th level spell. At level 9 they could cast a 6th level spell. Not bad. Finally starting to get somewhere. Mix in ultimate magus and I think we'll have something '"saucy."
The only problem is that no matter how many spells you know, you still have to prepare a select few of them, but if you can find a way to swap spells out for the ones you need when you need them, it could end up very nasty indeed.
Edit: Well crap, if its for spontaneous casters only, that ruins this idea
All you need to CAST a level 9 spell as a Sorc is 19 Cha. Notice how I stress the act of CASTING.
You need levels in a class that grants 9th level spell slots. If you need a rules reference for this, look at Complete Arcane page 72 (or the "what it means by ability to cast 3rd level spells" section.)
One nifty thing the PrC gives you is the ability to learn high level spells for the cost of scribing a 0th or 1st level spell. Swap light for polymorph any object and then go to any wizard and copy their light spell. Not the best class ability ever, but you can end up with a wizard (or perhaps archivist - does it work with divine casters?) that has access to most if not all of the wizard spell list without having gimped yourself in the magic item department.
The only problem is that no matter how many spells you know, you still have to prepare a select few of them, but if you can find a way to swap spells out for the ones you need when you need them, it could end up very nasty indeed.
Edit: Well crap, if its for spontaneous casters only, that ruins this idea
You can get pretty liberal with the way it's written. You can *definitely* know every single spell you have ever seen on a scrol/spellbook, and have access to spontaneous casting of it, which is a pretty good deal.
So Zaloth, the real advantage to this is artificial wealth. Like you said, for the cost of scribing a 0th level spell into your spellbook, you can now learn ANY spell. Yes, it is that good. "Free" gold is NEVER bad.
You can also use versatile caster to "Trade up" two lower level spells for a spell 1 level higher.
Naw, it's not ruined *at all*. Especially with Ultimate Magus. You can blend the spells per day into literally any spell you need at any spell level you can cast. That's not bad. Your cantrips can actually be useful as level 1 spells, that's pretty sweet actually because it frees up your level 1 spells to be level 2 spells and your level 3 spells to be level 4 and so on and so on.
Risner, old news, already fixed that. Still abusable in a different way with the right PrC if we can find one that requires something like knowledge of such and such high level spells, which you can have. Just not saves/ranks/feats. So usually that wouldn't work, but I'm sure there has to be ONE such class where we can reap huge returns at a low level.
Still searching.
You can also use versatile caster to "Trade up" two lower level spells for a spell 1 level higher.
PrC if we can find one that requires something like knowledge of such and such high level spells,
You can not use Versatile Spellcaster (RoDragon p 101 ish) to cast a spell higher level than your highest. So a 4th level Sorcer can cast 2nd level spells, but even if he had two 2nd level slots he couldn't cast a 3rd level spell he knows (his mind can't "hold" the knowledge required to do so; see CArc p72.)
As for a PrC that requires knowledge of a spell, there are none. All PrC will require the "ability to cast spells of X level or to cast Daylight as a divine spell." Etc. Your best bet is CChamp Paragon Disciple which requires a spell like ability of 3rd level or higher (or a 3rd level spellcasting.) This can be had by a lesser Aasamar (LA+0) with Light to Daylight feat that grants a 3rd level Daylight as a SLA. With this you can enter Paragon Agnostic at ECL 2.