Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 vulcanus Feb 28, 2008 21:24:37	So, my friend is starting a core only game. I was going to go for Druid and just wreck house, but I'd like to show the people in my group how to successfully play a rogue. I know the basics, like, how to survive, but not how to optimize. Help me? Core only DMG, MM, PHB Just mark where to put the abilities in 1-6 order, 1 being most important, 6 least. the Same for skills would be nice. What equipment, Race? Feats? I have a basic idea but it doesnt matter, not too much room to stray. Thanks!
#2 archerpwr Feb 28, 2008 21:30:51	Halfling Rogue 1/ Ranger 2/ Rogue +3/ Fighter 1/ Rogue +6/ Fighter+1/ Rogue +6 Halfling. Dex=Int=Con>Wis>Str>Cha Take the TWF line with the fighter levels. Weapon finesse is at level 3. Skills: Stealth, face, and traps are what you should focus on.
#3 vulcanus Feb 28, 2008 21:33:37	TWF, if flanking allows each attack to be a sneak attack, correct?
#4 archerpwr Feb 28, 2008 21:40:36	TWF, if flanking allows each attack to be a sneak attack, correct? *nots* yes
#5 vulcanus Feb 28, 2008 21:45:30	So Human? Isn't there a Feat that allows all skills to be class skills when you multiclass? That's probably not core... Able Learner? Something like that. What Feats and where to place ability scores? (In more detail I mean) 1 Rogue 2 Ranger 3 Ranger 4 Rogue 5 Rogue 6 Rogue 7 Fighter 8 Rogue 9 Rogue 10 Rogue 11 Rogue 12 Rogue 13 Rogue 14 Fighter 15 Rogue 16 Rogue 17 Rogue 18 Rogue 19 Rogue 20 Rogue
#6 jameswilliamogle Feb 29, 2008 8:08:30	What kind of traps do you expect to face? 90% of traps are in dungeons, and therefore a Dwarf's stonecunning is very, very good. Dwarf Diviner 10 / Loremaster 8 / Archmage 2 Feats: not as important to OP. Tactics: Maximizes search, keeps detect magic up at all times (uses Permanency for Arcane Sight ASAP), keeps lots of Dispel Magics for magical traps, and uses Summon Monsters for mundane traps (the summons sunder the device). Detect Magic DOES identify ALL magical auras INCLUDING TRAPS unless your DM puts a "Nystul's Magic Aura" effect on the traps (which are temporary anyways); check the FAQ. So, you don't really even need a Rogue in a core-only environment. Elves can do something similar, but only for secret doors... its not as good... particularly since you have "Detect Secret Doors" prepared.
#7 sirlavandino Feb 29, 2008 8:24:03	Able Learner is from "Races Of Destiny"
#8 Dictum_Mortuum Feb 29, 2008 8:58:57	rogue 1/druid 19 assuming human with no int bonus, ranks/level would go: 2 disable device, 2 search, 1 knowledge (nature) So you are roughly a rogue that disables traps and a full caster/summoner/wild shape monster :P Not actually a rogue, but i figured since you wanted to be a druid, it was worth noting.
#9 droma Feb 29, 2008 12:52:47	Since your asking for rogue.... Human Barbarian 1 rogue 16 barb 3 feats 1 - twf, weapon finesse 3 - imp init 6 - combat reflexes 9 - itwf everything else is pretty open. dex, con, int, str, cha, wis if your a straight skill monkey dex, con, str, cha, int, wis if your just looking for damage. tumble, umd, open lock, search, disable device are the standard must haves if its heavy dungeon crawling. If its a political campaign then all the face type skills.
#10 squashmonster Feb 29, 2008 13:06:30	If you want to play straight rogue, or something vaguely resembling straight rogue (ie: archerpwr's build) then go for two weapon fighting and sneak attack. If you want to play the party's problem solver and trap finder, take Dictum Mortuum's build. Who needs a trapmonkey when you can summon monkeys? A few levels in you can use one of those 1d4+1 summons to get a small horde of monkeys to swarm the room and trigger any traps. And locked doors don't mean a thing: you can summon a dire badger to dig through or around it.
#11 sonofzeal Feb 29, 2008 13:17:52	"Lockhart" Premise: Raging trips on AoO's followed by sneak attacks while they're down and when they stand up. Orc Barbarian1 - Combat Expertise Fighter1 - Improved Trip Fighter2 - EWP: Spiked Chain, Combat Reflexes RogueX Str>Dex=Con=Int>Wis>Cha (watch out for Combat Expertise requirement; may require jiggling with fighter levels and bonus stat points) Strengths Great low-level battlefield control Impressive damage output Scaling damage output at higher levels Very durable for a rogue High land speed so you can get where needed Weaknesses Less skillpoints over full Rogue Bit of MAD Some DMs are leery of Raging Sneak If you start at higher level or allow flaws, you can drop some of those Fighter Levels. Also, check with your DM about allowing the "Wilderness Rogue" variant listed in the SRD - it's basically the same, but fits the flavour better. I've played this character at lvl3-4, and he's one of the most dominant forces I've ever seen actually played at that level, core or otherwise.
#12 eepop Feb 29, 2008 13:29:10	You can always pump your charisma and get Use Magic Device. It increases Multiple Ability Dependency but being able to use any scroll is pretty ridiculous. Note that this works best if you expect to spend a decent % of the time in levels 10+ with this character. UMD starts to get really nasty when you can use skill mastery on it, and take 10. Below level 10, it can be fun, but is harder to optimize.
#13 eldariel Feb 29, 2008 13:56:47	I'd just go for Archer's build, except probably Cha>Wis>Str, since UMD is off Cha and being able to use it safely as early as possible is pretty awesome, and since high Cha is great for a number of Roguish skills like Bluff, Disguise and Gather Information. Another option would indeed be Human for the extra skillpoints (I mean, Search/Disable, Hide/Move Silently, UMD/Tumble is 6, then you'll want few 5-ranks (Jump, Balance) and then all the face-skills like Bluff, Disguise, Gather Information, Sense Motive, Diplomacy et company, and even Open Lock if you feel like putting ranks into it; I just break those locks), but worse Stealth. It'd be rough to start off level 1, but a Shortbow would work just fine before Weapon Finesse is achieved. After level 3, it should start working fine with TWF and Weapon Finesse kicking in.
#14 vulcanus Feb 29, 2008 14:15:16	Yeah, Archer's build looks solid as long as I can survive a few levels, I just need a feat path to fit in, anyone?
#15 eldariel Feb 29, 2008 15:19:23	Well, he gave you the most important parts already. I'd go something like: 1st: Improved Initiative 3rd: Weapon Finesse, (Two-Weapon Fighting) 6th: Open Feat 7th: (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting) 9th: Open Feat 12th: Open Feat 14th: (Greater Two-Weapon Fighting) 15th: Open Feat 18th: Open Feat With brackets indicating bonus feats and Open Feats being: -Skill Focus: UMD (if you want to reach the critical amount of skill early) -Combat Expertise > Improved Feint (a handy alternate plan in combat) -Quick Draw + Point Blank Shot>Precise Shot+Far Shot+Rapid Shot (yet another contingency plan, allowing you to throw a number of daggers at range; if you take Rapid Shot, you'll be able to throw one more each turn, making throwing preferable to melee) -Combat Reflexes (you have a high Dex, so if you can set up nice position for you, a number of AoOs may be doable, especially if you'd have reach somehow, although it's unlikely for a small character in Core without Shapechange or other broken spells) -Weapon Focus (if early on you find yourself lacking To Hit) -Blind-Fight (well, if there be need to fight in total darkness or something) -Leadership (well, it's the best feat in the game, so...) If you have to start from level 1, picking up Point Black Shot level 1 might be worth it for a bit better damage and To Hit with your Shortbow, provided that you intend on learning to throw Daggers at some point. That would leave you to pick up Improved Initiative a bit later.
#16 carnivore Feb 29, 2008 17:27:34	core.... try this also: Human Rogue 4/ Ranger 3/ Fighter 2/ Shadowdancer 4/ Horizon Walker 7 BAB +18 lots of feats Hide in Plain Sight Planar mastery... pick 2 of the following:[indent] Shifting (Planar): You instinctively anticipate shifts in the reality of the plane that bring you closer to your destination, giving you the spell-like ability to use dimension door (as the spell cast at your character level) once every 1d4 rounds. You gain a +1 insight bonus on attack and damage rolls against outsiders and elementals native to a shifting plane. Aligned (Planar): You have the instinctive ability to mimic the dominant alignment of the plane. You incur none of the penalties for having an alignment at odds with that of the plane, and spells and abilities that harm those of the opposite alignment don’t affect you. You have the dominant alignment of the plane with regard to magic, but your behavior and any alignment-related Class Features you have are unaffected. Cavernous (Planar): You gain tremorsense with a 30-foot range. [/indent] use similar feats to archerpwr or Eldariel suggestions(except the ones to qualify for the PrCs) :D
#17 eldariel Feb 29, 2008 17:47:38	Oh yeah, since you're the glass cannon more than the tank, a Gray Elf isn't a horrible option for a race either. You lose out on the Stealth-bonuses, but gain Perception-related ones instead - although Halflings' Listen-bonus is the same as Elves - (and since your Wisdom should be low, your Perception needs more help; as a bonus, it also allows noticing more traps as you get a higher Search, and since you're a Rogue with high Search, the 'auto-Search for secret doors' Elves get works greatly in your favour too). More importantly, while you lose out on two Con (which hurts, but Con 14 should be enough, so you'd have to dump a 16 into it), you get Int- and Dex-bonuses, which are the two others of your main attributes. This'd get you more skillpoints, which you might be running low on. I'd personally take the immunity to sleep and bonuses vs. enchantment over Halfling's overall bonuses early on as Sleep-effects are really the bane of low level characters. The Strength penalty though is probably something you'll want to offset (although Halfling has the same, so that's not really a loss), so you aren't saving that many points; still, it's not completely trivial, either. Still, I'd rather play a Rogue with 18/14/18 Dex/Con/Int than 18/16/16; that's one more skill to max. Also, the Longbow Proficiency would be useful for the first level when you're a Rogue and thus don't get it from class. Of course, Grey Elf's (Monster Manual) Favoured Class is a Wizard, so if your playgroup uses Favoured Class-rules (which are obviously totally inane; Ranger, Fighter and Druid should be just as favoured for an Elf as Wizard, and there's no reason Dwarven Clerics aren't up there with Fighters), this option is right out of the window and you'll have to go with Human in case you're interested in the extra skillpoints, which is probably the worse option as in core, the extra feat is rather weak as the number of feats worth picking really isn't that large. But yea, Halfling might edge out a bit thanks to the Throw-bonuses and such, but Grey Elf isn't a totally horrible option either with the Int-bonus; you live and die by your skills, so 12 per level would be good.
#18 Thief_of_Hope Mar 18, 2008 23:25:41	I personally am fond of goblins for my rogues, since you get the small-size bonuses, the dex bonus, and a +4 to your Move Silently (take that, halflings!) Oh, and the most useful part for someone trying to get into flanking position in combat: 30 foot speed. Mmm, nummy. Silly halfling comes up five or ten feet short of the target, 'cuz their tiny little legs just can't do the job. But goblins can go the extra mile (well, 10' anyway). No lazing about for them, no sirree!
#19 x-codes Mar 19, 2008 5:48:35	I personally am fond of goblins for my rogues, since you get the small-size bonuses, the dex bonus, and a +4 to your Move Silently (take that, halflings!) Oh, and the most useful part for someone trying to get into flanking position in combat: 30 foot speed. Mmm, nummy. Silly halfling comes up five or ten feet short of the target, 'cuz their tiny little legs just can't do the job. But goblins can go the extra mile (well, 10' anyway). No lazing about for them, no sirree! Nevermind that despite the silly +2 Jump bonus Halflings get, their speed actually cuts them to a net -4, where Goblins just break even. Yeah, WotC has a few braindead moments.
#20 robbypants Mar 19, 2008 10:05:41	I personally am fond of goblins for my rogues, since you get the small-size bonuses, the dex bonus, and a +4 to your Move Silently (take that, halflings!) Oh, and the most useful part for someone trying to get into flanking position in combat: 30 foot speed. Mmm, nummy. Silly halfling comes up five or ten feet short of the target, 'cuz their tiny little legs just can't do the job. But goblins can go the extra mile (well, 10' anyway). No lazing about for them, no sirree! Goblin was going to be my suggestion. While not a PHB race, they are technically "core", and they're very good at being rogues. I'd still suggest using TWF like others have.