Thanks in advance.
Ask if you can use Heroes of Horror. It has some great stuff in it for Evil characters. Sure, Dread Necromancers can be neutral. They're much better if they're evil though.
Necropolitan (Libris Mortis) Human Dread Necromancer / Tainted Scholar looks like a good idea.
If you're starting at ECL 10, you can use Lesser Planar Binding to make good zombies right away. Ghoul Glyph is a decent choice if you want to do this and aren't getting a ton of help from your allies. Otherwise, you could have the Wizard stick an explosive runes book in the summoning circle, and blow it when your summon gets there.
At ECL 12 you get Planar Binding and Create Undead which means you can call in a Trumpet Archon or similar, turn it into a Corpse Creature (BoVD template) and rebuke it. In effect, you can get a minion with better casting than anyone else in the party. Or you could get a very nice meatshield. Or a Nightmare for Astral Projection.
Sure, Dread Necromancers can be neutral. They're much better if they're evil though.
Hehe, I disagree. After all neutrality is the path to the (non-contested) world record for most turning pools. I could also edit it further for the world record for DMMable turn/rebuke uses. The proof is in my side note in my "Full CoDzilla build for your evil, evil DM" (build #2) at the link in my sig.
I am thinking of Blackguard as there are no real fighting classes in LM or SS that say "Take me!" Barbarian is favored class so one level of that and two for fighter or ranger. That will boost my BAB to +6 and I can take two levels of BG (If I get 5 ranks in Hide and 2 in K:religion). The problem I am running into is the feats and level boosts. Is this the right way? (not sure on what to take for the other two feats)
1 AEA 1d8 2+int x 4 skills Feat (Power Attack)
2 (LA)1d8
3 AEA 2d8 skills
4 (LA)2d8
5 AEA 3d8 feat skills (Cleave)
6 Ftr 1 Ftr feat 4HD +1 Stat (Imp Sunder)
7 Ftr 2 Ftr feat 5hd
8 Bar 1 Feat 6HD (or feat here if Fighter is not taken)
9 BG 1 7HD
10 BG 2 8HD +1 stat
As another option, I could go with Monk and take a monks belt to make up for the lower levels of monk. 30 str monk before items, ouch. Flurry of blows +14/+14 for 2d8+10
Why in the world are you going for blackguard with a 10 Cha?
He is still under the planing stage. I can boost the charisma and get the higher saves.
Anthropomorphic Giant Squid. Large, + 6 natural armor, +8 Str/Dex, -2 con, +4 Wis, -4 Cha. Now, so, where to go from there. 16/16/16/10/8/8 would make it 24/24/14/10/12/4 (For the moment)
So, would I be better off going with Ranger and using weapons or as a monk and use natural attacks/grapple, etc.?
If I go with weapons, is the a feat that would allow the tentacles to use two handed weapons?
Melee??
Ranged??
Casting??
Support??
because I see a lot of options on both - thoug one thing allways strikes me:
DreadNecro8/XYZ2
And Necropolitan Human as Race
the DreadNecro gives you HEALING AT WILL (because of Neg. Energy), Bonus Feat and ControllPool for a big undead Horde - so i would recommend that
so the question is, what to doe with your XYZ levels:
option 1: Monk 2 (+ Ascetic Mage)
CHA (your MAIN Attribute) to AC, unarmed Strikes, 2 Bonus Feats
than continuing onwards you have a lot of options: Incantatrix 10 OR UA Paladin Variant 2 Incantatrix 8 just to name two
both have their advantages: Incantatrix 10 gives you 9th level Spells and incantatrix goodies
Pal2/inc10 lets you loose 9th level spells BUT you get CHA to saves - and smite ...
Option 2: UrPriest2
than go on with Mystic Thurge 8 Incantatrix 2 - 9th level Arcane and Divine Spells, even more turning, DMMcheese
I know, none of those two is somehow a "monster" - but both work well!
Has anyone seen any truly unusual or exciting monstrous race/class combinations?
EDIT: Kegdrainer is a fellow player in this campaign, and thus provides an excellent illustration of what I'm talking about. Elephant barbarians are totally acceptable in this game.
That way you can be supercool+able to cast kickass 9th level spells?
Gravetouched are LA 2, but you gain some nice ability score bonuses and a great "Evil Mastermind" look ;)
How about Gravetouched Ghoul (LM) Dread Necromancer 8/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8?
That way you can be supercool+able to cast kickass 9th level spells?
Gravetouched are LA 2, but you gain some nice ability score bonuses and a great "Evil Mastermind" look ;)
Ur-Priest is outside his listed book sources, but if he can convince his DM to allow it, that would be decent. I'd drop the gravetouched ghoul if LA buyoff is not allowed, though. It's not worth the CL loss. I'd also get into Ur-Priest ASAP. Dread Necro 8 can wait...
Anthropomorphic Giant Squid. Large, + 6 natural armor, +8 Str/Dex, -2 con, +4 Wis, -4 Cha. 32 point build 18/10/14/14/10/8 would make it 26/18/12(14)/14/14/4 (For the moment) The level boost would be better in CON due to the con hit.
1 1d8+con Multiweapon Fighting
2 2d8+con
3 LA
4 3d8+con Combat Expertise
5 Ftr 1 1d10+3d8+con Improved trip
6 Ftr 2 2d10+3d8+con Improved Disarm
7 Ftr 3 3d10+3d8+con Power Attack
8 Ftr 4 4d10+3d8+con Improved Sunder
9 Ftr 5 5d10+3d8+con
10 Ftr 6 6d10+3d8+con Improved Multiweapon Fighting, Combat reflexes
BAB is +9/+4, MAB of +17/+12 making it +15 (x8)and +10(x8) (if there is a chance of a full attack:D ) Primary weapon would be a Light flail and a combination of 7 other light weapons. 2d6+8 and 1d8+4 Now, would it be better to take the -2 hit an use medium one handed weapons in order to use them as light?
What domains would be worth taking? Undeath? Is Planning really that good? Any ther suggestions? I've read through the MoS builds on the boards, and I'm still not sure...
Planning is just used to get Extend Spell for free. Otherwise, I don't think it is that great. It might be one of the ones that has Time Stop eventually, though. I can't remember for sure. Spell is good. You might take a look at the cleric's handbook for other suggestions.
I'm curious what kind of gear to stat him out with. As of right now: +2 full plate, +2 heavy shield, +4 periapt of wis, +2 cloak of charisma, +2 vest of resistance, lesser extend rod, wand of silence, wand of cure light, pearl of power 1st level. Thats 37070 gold spent, leaving just under 13k more to blow. What "must have" items are there? Obviously a wide number of utility scrolls (Comp Languages, Speak with dead, Neutralize Poison, etc.), but which might I be overlooking? Any wands or rods? Cool wonderous items?
As a side note, is there a list of the best or must have cleric spells? (For that matter, of wizard spells? Bard? etc.) I've got what seems to be a pretty predictable package, though I'm foregoing Divine Power, since I dont do melee combat with this character. Has anyone had a particularly good time with any overlooked spells?
As for domains, I went with Deathbound and Undeath. Spell stitched familiar for better rebukes and some flavor, with a cheese potential later. Went sorceror for my off-level for the +2 will as it synergizes with my charisma best, as well as for spell completion and the familiar. Thats about it. I look forward to your suggestions.
something ridiculous and overpowered built entirely out of savage species that can go colossal and does lots of ability damage.
What an understatement. You forgot the part that it can also posses the body once the soul was destroyed. James was shaking his head. I'm going to change mine a bit, just go with one weapon and use all 8 hands on it. As for the cleric spells, you might want to check out the cleric section in 'Some handy Links for CO work" at the top of the page
I'm curious what kind of gear to stat him out with. As of right now: +2 full plate, +2 heavy shield, +4 periapt of wis, +2 cloak of charisma, +2 vest of resistance, lesser extend rod, wand of silence, wand of cure light, pearl of power 1st level. Thats 37070 gold spent, leaving just under 13k more to blow.
You already blew a ton... You should NEVER get more than a +1 enhancement bonus on your weapon, armor, or shield. You can cast Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment. Heck, I don't even get the +1 unless there is some other property I want to add, like animated for a shield.
I'm playing a 12th level Ur-Priest that is mostly a melee monster in a game, and here are his items: 4 Reliquary Holy Symbols (add 2 Rebuke Attempts each for 1000 gp each), large guisarme with wand chamber (not magical), chain shirt (not magical), +1 animated darkwood heavy shield with wand chamber, +2 Con belt, Staff of Heal with 10 charges (self-crafted), Ring of Darkhidden and Sustenance (combined item), Ring of Counterspells (Greater Dispel Magic), Heward's Handy Haversack, Artificer's Monocle, Periapt of Wisdom +4 (self-crafted), Wand of Wraithstrike (he has maxed out Use Magic Device ranks), +6 UMD item, Wand of Heroics, Wand of Nerveskitter, Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend Spell, Boots of Speed and Anklet of Translocation (combined item).
Here are his buffs that are up 24/7:
Consumptive Field, Divine Power, Righteous Might, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Magic Vestment (x2), Greater Magic Weapon, Superior Resistance, Heroes Feast, Permanent Arcane Sight (CL24), Mass Lesser Vigor, Lesser Visage of the Deity
His build is basically Hexblade + Human Paragon going into Ur-Priest, with dipping into Contemplative and a homebrew PrC to be able to possess people really well via Magic Jar. He also has the Mother Cyst feat, and has permanently enslaved a war troll, which he possesses most of the time. If you want more details, here is a link.
Edit: After rereading the OP, I realize you can't use some of that stuff, but alot of it you can, and my main point was that you shouldn't blow money on things you can easily reproduce with your spells (enhancement bonuses on equipment, resistance boosts to saves, etc). Consumptive Field and the (Major/Greater/Superior) Resistance spells are originally from Libris Mortis and Savage Species, so you can use most of the best stuff I listed.
Is this the usual wake and buff style, employing a Rod of Extend or the widely contested Persistent Spell? Won't this eat up the overwhelming majority of my daily spells?
Yes, and no.
You don't have access to some of the spells I mentioned yet (you're 10th level, right?), but even after you do, it still won't eat all of your spells. It will eat some of them, but the benefits are very worth it. I play mostly as a self-buffing "fighter", anyway. So what else am I going to use my spells for? And I still have enough for utility, divination, travel, etc.
Your spell slots look like this, before counting those from having a high Wisdom: 6 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1
Your wisdom is probably at least 22, giving you bonus slots of 2 2 1 1 1, for a total of 6 6+1 6+1 4+1 4+1 3+1.
I mentioned 11 spells, and alot of those are only cast every other day (Divine Metamagic Persistent, then Extended (via a Lesser Metmagic Rod, when possible)). So no, it won't eat all your spells.
You could also leave some of them off, if you think you don't need them, like the Lesser Visage of the Deity. Also, some of them affect your whole party, like Mass Lesser Vigor and Righteous Wraith of the Faithful, so it's not like you're just buffing yourself, either. So yeah, I'm totally convinced that this is the way to go.
Consumptive Field will boost your caster level by +10, giving you the full +5 on Magic Vestment and GMW (assuming you took Practiced Spellcaster), and letting them last pretty much all day (or two days, if extended). If you want total coverage, you could get a Karma Bead, but that's expensive (unless your DM doesn't look carefully at the pricing on those Prayer Beads :P ). It will also give you a +20 enhancement bonus to Strength, which is pretty obscene... and 10d8 temporary hit points...
This stuff is why I suggested a non-LA spellcaster, in a game where "everything goes", because even in those crazy games, a spellcaster still owns all the crazy LA monster characters, if you go all out. And that's pretty much the name of the game in this type of campaign, right?
Edit: Whoops. I forgot you're a couple of caster levels down due to being a MoS. So you'll still get up to the 4th level spells, but not the 5th level ones. Too bad... your party would love that Righteous Wrath of the Faithful. :D You still get Consumptive Field, though.
what's the LA? you should make a build for it that abuses reach and arms, this could just be teh best squid thingy ever. build it post it love it. :P
So we playtested today and the MoS is very, VERY powerful. I almost solo dropped a Glabrezu with a crapton of shadows STR draining. He also has DMM at his fingertips, so with his ungodly rebuke attempts, he can quicken spells all day long. Party composition borders on absurd. Anthropomorphic squid with a zillion attacks, a black dragon young adult, a choker monk, rakshasa sorceror, undead drow rogue, ogre barbarian, and something ridiculous and overpowered built entirely out of savage species that can go colossal and does lots of ability damage. I look underoptimized by comparison. Barring cohorts, I'm the only one playing a base race/class, really.
I'm curious what kind of gear to stat him out with. As of right now: +2 full plate, +2 heavy shield, +4 periapt of wis, +2 cloak of charisma, +2 vest of resistance, lesser extend rod, wand of silence, wand of cure light, pearl of power 1st level. Thats 37070 gold spent, leaving just under 13k more to blow. What "must have" items are there? Obviously a wide number of utility scrolls (Comp Languages, Speak with dead, Neutralize Poison, etc.), but which might I be overlooking? Any wands or rods? Cool wonderous items?
As a side note, is there a list of the best or must have cleric spells? (For that matter, of wizard spells? Bard? etc.) I've got what seems to be a pretty predictable package, though I'm foregoing Divine Power, since I dont do melee combat with this character. Has anyone had a particularly good time with any overlooked spells?
As for domains, I went with Deathbound and Undeath. Spell stitched familiar for better rebukes and some flavor, with a cheese potential later. Went sorceror for my off-level for the +2 will as it synergizes with my charisma best, as well as for spell completion and the familiar. Thats about it. I look forward to your suggestions.
You said level 10 in the OP, but that Young Adult Black Dragon should be at least ECL 20 or so, and the Rakshasa is ECL 14 before any sorcerer levels it might have.
Are you using savage progressions, or what?
To PhaedrusXY, et al: So it looks like I'll be dropping the magic armor and shield, regaining a few thousand gold. Not enough for a Bead of Karma, but some extra cash never hurt. I'm still not sure what to spend the money on. Im thinking Ring Of Counterspells for 4k with Dispel Magic in it for now, moving up to Greater Dispel later. I don't think the DM will allow for Persistent cheese(unless I'm very persuasive/lucky), but extended buffs will probably be ok. Here's what I'm thinking at the moment-
1st level slots: Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Obscuring Mist, CLW, Bless, something else like Lesser Vigor. Detect Undead as domain.
1st Level Sorceror spells- Who cares? True Strike? Ray of Enfeeblement? Feather Fall? Expeditious Retreat? Armor will definitely affect my casting, so Verbal only spells are ideal.
2nd level: Status, Align Weapon, Hold Person, Cure Moderate, Calm Emotion. Domain- Desecrate.
3rd: Deeper Darkness, Dispel Magic (I'm behind the curve on this particular spell due to CL), Magic Vestment, Magic Circle vs Good(?), Prayer(?). Domain Animate dead.
4th: Air walk (to get our melee psychos aloft), Freedom of Movement, Consumptive Field(?) Cure Critical(?) Domain- uncertain.
3rd level slots will obviously include Magic Vestment extended to at least 16 hours (20 if I trade in Spell Stitched Familiar for Practiced Caster, more and better armor if Consumptive Field is dropping things.). 4th level will probably include consumptive field, though this implies the need for some serious preparation. I'm not sold on the need for GMW, since I'm not a primary melee combatant. 4th level domain spell is tough; Wither Limb is an amusing save or suck and appropriately evil, but Death Ward has obvious uses.
The character will be fulfilling the usual buffer/healer/get-the-party-out-of-a-bind cleric role, as well as unofficial party leadership (we're not about to send the choker or the squid man in to negotiate now, are we?). Most actions will be eaten up with summoning shadows and addressing any party needs with quickened spells. Only one feat can be swapped out (Spell Stitched Familiar, which is there mostly for RP reasons, although it isn't terrible) for something like (D)MM:Extend (and later Persistent, if allowed) and Practiced Caster. I'd like to throw in a little more Save or Screwed type stuff, though that doesn't really come online until later anyway.
Anything else? I'd still appreciate a set of scroll/wand suggestions. Thanks to PhaedrusXY for all your help thus far.
That might help if we knew what you defined "PSC" to mean.
Ah well. I'd definitely suggest the Mother Cyst feat, if you expect to make it to higher levels, or you can buy scrolls of those spells. Necrotic Tumor is insanely powerful (7th level, permanent enslavement). So is Necrotic Empowerment, but mainly if you can make it Persistant via DMM.
I did manage to convince the DM to allow DMM, and in fact already have applied to DMM: Quicken. I'll probably invest in a Nightstick as well, since McPoyo and PhaedrusXY seem intent on convincing me to employ every resource potentially at my disposal. I guess in this game, I should do just that, anyway. Mother Cyst does seem quite nasty, and Necrotic Tumor implies the possibility of a legion of beasties at my command. Very appropriate for an evil cleric. I'll look into it.
Any other suggestions?
honestly i dont find DMM: persist to be all that game-breaking. it gets annoying sometimes, but remember the DM only needs to hit you with a dispel magic to ruin your day.
A ring of counterspells is only 4,000 gp. Get a Hand of Glory, and you can wear 3. 16k to automatically counter the first three greater dispels thrown at you isn't bad. :D I usually don't bother getting more than 1, though.
A ring of counterspells is only 4,000 gp. Get a Hand of Glory, and you can wear 3. 16k to automatically counter the first three greater dispels thrown at you isn't bad. :D I usually don't bother getting more than 1, though.
that wont stop SLAs, which lots of outsiders have
that wont stop SLAs, which lots of outsiders have
True... which I'd forgotten... I expect that to be biting me in the ass soon in Tshern's "Dispatching the Message" game... where I am just joining with a character that will run around with a bazillion long term buffs...
Ah well, my caster level is 20 on them all, and the PCs are ECL 12, so maybe I'll be ok...
Plus, the rings only trigger if you are directly targeted, no? Area effect dispels still get around that. Granted that only hits the single lowest level effect, but that's what thesis'd-repeat-twinned Greater Dispels from incantatrix/RedWizard circle casters are for, right?
i dont see why an area spell wont trigger it. a fireball would trigger it.
Instead, should that spell ever be cast upon the wearer, the spell is immediately countered, as a counterspell action, requiring no action (or even knowledge) on the wearer’s part.
since this official text, if they had meant "targeted" they would have used the word "targeted."
Edit: For additional support, see the phrasing under the Ring of Spell Turning.
Key phrasing there is "cast upon" not "effected by". In order for a spell to be cast on someone, they have to be a target. Area spells don't target individuals, they target a grid intersection point.
Uh... I don't agree with that interpretation. If someone hits me with a Fireball, a fireball was "cast upon" me. That term isn't a defined game term, and I could definitely see it going either way.
Edit: For additional support, see the phrasing under the Ring of Spell Turning.
That's what I get for editing a response while someone else types, eh?
That's what I get for editing a response while someone else types, eh?
The fact that they use the same poorly defined term in the description of a magic item doesn't really convince me either. :P
CHA is your casting stat and it boosts all of your saves. CHA also boosts how many undead you can command. sure you gain each level of spells a little late but trust me it is worth it when you can boost your CHA sky high. make sure to take Versatile Spellcaster from (races of dragon or dragon magic i forget) and for an evil character the profane lifeleech and mother cyst feats are always fun too
Any additional spell slot recommendations? Scroll/wand purchases?
EDIT: Mother Cyst has also been traded out for Spell Stitched Familiar.
Vaeon the Irascible Human Cleric 2/Sorceror 1/ Master of Shrouds 7
Str 8
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 22
Cha 18
BAB +6/+1 HP: 71 Fort: +7 Ref: +5 Will: +18 AC: 23 (25 w/Magic Vestment on Armor and Shield)
Feats: Augment Summoning, Spell Focus: Conjuration, Quicken Spell, DMM: Quicken, Extra Turning (Free from Undeath), Mother Cyst. Alertness with raven familiar.
Turns: 15 (19 w/Nightstick) +6 to turn.
Skills: Spellcraft: 13, Concentration 12, Bluff 1, Know: Religion 12
Domains: Deathbound, Undeath
Gear: +4 periapt of wis, +2 cloak of charisma, +2 vest of resistance, lesser extend rod, wand of silence, wand of cure light, pearl of power 1st level, Nightstick, ring of counterspells. 43,250 gold spent. Full plate, large steel shield. (Suggestions here welcome. Also, I gained 3k more gold after last "session," so I can go slightly over standard PC level wealth.)
Spell Slots (tentative plan): 1st level slots: Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Obscuring Mist, CLW, Bless, something else like Lesser Vigor. Detect Undead as domain.
1st Level Sorceror spells- Who cares? True Strike? Ray of Enfeeblement? Feather Fall? Expeditious Retreat? Armor will definitely affect my casting, so Verbal only spells are ideal.
2nd level: Status, Align Weapon, Hold Person, Cure Moderate, Calm Emotion. Domain- Desecrate.
3rd: Deeper Darkness, Dispel Magic (I'm behind the curve on this particular spell due to CL), Magic Vestment, Magic Circle vs Good(?), Prayer(?). Domain Animate dead.
4th: Air walk (to get our melee psychos aloft), Freedom of Movement, Consumptive Field(?) Cure Critical(?) Domain- uncertain.
That should about cover it. Suggestions? Criticisms? All are welcome. We're running for real tomorrow, but I suspect there will be a little more opportunity to change a few minor things.
Plus, spending a standard action on True Strike? Really?
Also, edited character sheet slightly.
Quick question about Divine Metamagic: do I apply DMM to a metamagic feat I already possess? The wording in Complete Arcane is a bit murky. Can I simply take DMM: Quicken without already having Quicken Spell? It would save me a feat.
Also, edited character sheet slightly.
the errata states that you must have the feat you want to apply DMM to.
either Whisper Gnome or Kobold, the small size helps...
Very similar to the build above, but I feel is more versatile. you get access to other spells through the Archivist and unlimited healing/1d8 damage from your touch.
Or
Necropolitan Human, Dread Necromancer (1)/ Duskblade (3)/ Spellthief (1)/ Chameleon (5+)
Features:
- Touch attack (1d8)/unlimited healing
- Channel spell
- Sneak attack +1d6
- Steal spell
- Caster Level for all spells = 14 if Arcane focused/5 otherwise
- Divine or Arcane spell list
- Floating feat
Feats needed: Able Learner, Precocious Apprentice(Dread Necro), Master Spell Thief.
I suspect that I'll soon be very good at doing quick Zombie template (and Desecrate enhanced) conversions of lowish HD creatures.I have to say, playing this character in this party is almost TOO easy. With reach enhanced grapple/trip monkeys dominating the battlefield, meatshields blocking charge paths, and incorporeal undead sapping the strength of enemies, I feel like my character needs only to stay in a safe place and summon undead baddies. Should I pick up more Save or Suck spells to add some variety to my Standard and/or DMM:Quickened actions? Also, additional gear recommendations are welcomed.
I didn't realize there was a 10 HD cap on Animate Dead, which precluded me from gaining a zombie elephant mount.
It's a 20 HD limit, actually. Zombie HD are doubled from the base creature. So you could have made it into a Skeleton. :D
Should I have made skeletons instead? There was also a Fire giant I was looking to reanimate. Since zombies double in HD, that effectively halves the number of undead I could potentially create? Can someone point me in the right direction?
Ok, now I'm slightly confused. Deathbound domain triples the amount of created Undead I can have under my control, as opposed to doubling. If I create the Undead in a Desecrated zone, I get even more. How much can I control then?
There is an Errata for Libris Mortis. They nerfed the Deathbound domain in there. I don't remember exactly how...
Should I have made skeletons instead? There was also a Fire giant I was looking to reanimate. Since zombies double in HD, that effectively halves the number of undead I could potentially create? Can someone point me in the right direction?
I like skeletons better for most purposes. Zombies are best used to get a flying mount (by animating a dragon, or something). If the DM lets hydra zombies keep all their attacks, they're pretty good, though. :D
Also, if you can use the Draconomicon rules for zombie dragons, their HD don't double, and they keep their breath weapons...
The amount of undead you can control via Animate Dead is based entirely on their total hit dice. It is usually better to have a few high HD undead than lots of low HD undead (unless you're turning them into "bombs" via Destruction Retribution, or something...). If you want more, you could look at using Command Undead. It lasts 1 day per level, and non-intelligent undead don't even get a save.
Get priests with the pestilence domain, get them to self inflict Contagion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contagion.htm) on themselves a couple of times and then send them in to towns and locations to spread their diseases...
or get live prisoners and infect them, send them off with enough rations to get them to the next town, and give them a message to deliver to the authorities... always have at least a few live prisoners to do this.
"Surrender to the might of the imperial army X, or we shall raise your city to the ground and raise your men, women and children as the un-living"
(it worked for Genghis Khan)
In heroes of battle look at the undead siege weaponry, these can be fun too.
lastly always convert children in to undead, the psychological terror that unliving children can reap is pure role playing nastiness
Have fun!
Thus, I'm still confused.
Further, after the battle there were a number of viable corpses: numerous humanoids, an Adult Red Dragon (24 HD), a Fire Giant (15 HD), several Dire Wolves (6 HD), and an Elephant (11 HD). My reading of Animate Dead and Desecrate and Deathbound domain remains murky, but our table collectively decided that controlling 24 HD worth of undead was enough (which would be three times my caster level). My reading of the Zombie template in MM indicates that no creature above 10 HD can be made into a zombie, thus only the wolves are viable options. Further, it says that creatures turned into zombies double their HD... does this doubling count against my HD created limit? (IE: would I create 2 12 HD wolves for a total of 24, or would I create 4 6 HD wolves who would then have their HD double when they acquired the zombie template?) Skeletons aparrently go up to 20 HD... which leaves out the Dragon, but allows for the others. Would I be better off with a skeleton Fire Giant or Elephant mount and some Wolves/Humanoids supporting?
Is there a link anywhere to tips on creating Undead and/or simplifying the math it involves?
Yes, the doubling for zombies counts against the HD controlled. I'd go with the fire giant skeleton over the elephant, as it can use weapons and armor and keeps the fire subtype, making it immune to both fire and cold. I'd probably just animate as many zombie wolves as you could for the rest, as they keep their automatic trip attack.
Also, this is all based on your caster level, which you can temporarily inflate to create and control more undead. So if you have any Karma beads, Consumptive Field spells and the like, use them first, then animate. In general, spells only "check" for restrictions when cast. Once cast, it doesn't matter if your caster level drops. You still maintain control of all the undead, as long as you don't try to make more.
The math isn't really that complicated. You can normally control 2x your CL in HD of undead. Desecrate doubles this to 4x. The Deathbound domain has no effect on that, but as you said, you automatically control the undead when you make them, even if it would normally bypass your limit. So even when not in a desecrated area, you can control 3xCL in HD as long as you animate them all at once.
desecrate lets you create more undead, not control more.
desecrate lets you create more undead, not control more.
Whoops! I guess it's not so simple. :P I remembered incorrectly, and didn't bother to look it up. So yeah, that Deathbound domain ability should give you a benefit in a Desecrated area. I guess it would go from 3xCL to 6xCL in HD created, allowing you to exceed the normal limits for how many you control, if you make them all at once. That's pretty good.
Do I thus create 48 HD worth of undead, netting me the Fire Giant (15 HD), Elephant (11 HD), and some Wolves (6 HD) if I make them all skeletons (possibly making one or 2 wolves zombies, since the HD double)? How do I control them all? Can I simply rebuke? Any suggestions on how to improve my control numbers outside of gaining levels?
Also, should I take my next level in Contemplative, thereby gaining Planning Domain, and making myself eligible for Persistent Spell next level?
"Surrender to the might of the imperial army X, or we shall raise your city to the ground and raise your men, women and children as the un-living"
No, you raze the city to the ground! Well, I suppose you could raise the city, and then drop it to the ground, but that's significantly more difficult, and lacks the catchy "raze and raise" description.
(it worked for Genghis Khan)
It's a little known fact that Genghis Khan was a level 10 Dread Necromancer.
So the forum ate my last, more extensive, post. Grrr... I'll summarize.
Do I thus create 48 HD worth of undead, netting me the Fire Giant (15 HD), Elephant (11 HD), and some Wolves (6 HD) if I make them all skeletons (possibly making one or 2 wolves zombies, since the HD double)? How do I control them all? Can I simply rebuke? Any suggestions on how to improve my control numbers outside of gaining levels?
I don't know what your caster level is... So I don't know how many HD you can control. If you animate them in a desecrated area with a single casting of Animate Dead, I think it should be 6 times your caster level.
You can't control very many HD with Rebuke. You could get the party wizard to control some via Command Undead, though.
Also, should I take my next level in Contemplative, thereby gaining Planning Domain, and making myself eligible for Persistent Spell next level?
You'd still need to take Divine Metamagic (Persistent) for it to be useful. Unless you expect to level fast and play for a long time, you might consider taking things that will be more immediately useful.
You'd still need to take Divine Metamagic (Persistent) for it to be useful. Unless you expect to level fast and play for a long time, you might consider taking things that will be more immediately useful.
Such as?
Such as?
I don't know... there are a million possibilities. Destruction Retribution? Nimble Bones? Mother Cyst? Domain Spontaneity (if your domains are worth it)? Maybe Empower or Maximize Spell-like Ability (or even Quicken), depending on how the DM says that interacts with the number of shadows you summon. (Undead) Leadership? :P
Was there an ad-hoc LA added to the MoL template?
I think there is an official one in an errata or 3.5 update somewhere...