Expansion build - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Expansion build

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
aughisky
Mar 18, 2009 13:40:11 Alright, this is my first post, here, so let's see if I'm doing this right.
I'm trying to build a character that stacks size increases for extra damage on their attacks. After coming through the books, this is the build I came up with. I was wondering if it can be done better, or if I did something wrong in making this one.

Base Creature:
Half-Giant (XPH)
Templates:
Half-Minotaur (Dragon Magazine)
Evolved Creature (Arcana Evolved)
Monster of Legend (MMII)

Class Levels:
Psychic Warrior 6

Feats:
Overchannel (PsyWar Bonus 1)
Talented (Lvl 1)
Psionic Talent (PsyWar Bonus 2)
Monkey Grip (3rd lvl)
Improved Initiative (MoL bonus)
Multiattack (MoL bonus)
Sturdy (Evolved Bonus Feat)
Weapon Focus (One Natural Weapon, greatsword (Graft weapon makes it count as a natural weapon) (Evolved Bonus Feat)
Improved Natural Attack (Greatsword) (6th lvl)

Powers:
Expansion
Graft Weapon
x
x
x
x

Equipment:
+1 Balanced Sizing Mithral Greatsword (Using mithral weapon rules here)
+1 Metaline Fullplate (Shaped into Gigant Armor, from the same thread as the above sword)

With the above build, this is the progression of damage:
Starting at medium size. 2d6 (normal greatsword damage)
Large size from Half-Minotaur. 3d6
Considered Huge Size by Powerful Build (Half-Giant racial ability). 4d6
Gargantuan from Monkey Grip (-2 on attack rolls). 6d6
Colossal from Balanced (Wielded two handed). 8d6
Colossal++ from Augmented Expansion. 16d6
Colossal+++ from Evolved Creature. 24d6
Colossal++++ from Improved Natural Attack. 32d6
Colossal+++++ from Monster of Legend. 64d6

So, 64d6+str bonus and other enhancements, at approximately CR 11 (I wasn't able to get a good measure of ECL. Can anyone give me some pointers on how to make this better?
#2
ozgun
Mar 18, 2009 13:42:42 Try a monk for starting point 2d10 instead of 2d6. (with Superior Unarmed Strike & Monk's Belt, 11 levels of Monk does it)

Edit1:
Another one, you don't double damage when going from Colossal+++ to Colossal++++.
Monkey Grip doesn't stack with Powerful Build.
I have no idea about Evolved Creature, Monster of Legend & Balanced, but you've already lost 2 sizes, so you're at 32d6, not 64d6.

Edit2:
Arcana Evolved is non-official, just FYI.
Technically, you can't add Monster of Legend template on a Half-Giant (Giant type), so that's out too.

Edit3:
Let's see now, you have Expansion for +2, INA for +1, Powerful Build for +1, Half-Minotaur for +1, and that's about all you get for sizes.

You're at 16d6 official, 24d6 with Arcana Evolved.

Edit4:
Which book is 'Balanced' from? Not MIC nor core...
Also, the mithril rules in that site is broken, just so you know.

Edit5:
If you're going with unofficial rules, why not just use The Lightning Warrior?
#3
phaedrusxy
Mar 18, 2009 14:52:01
If you're going with unofficial rules, why not just use The Lightning Warrior?

Aww, now that was just a low blow. :P
#4
ozgun
Mar 18, 2009 14:55:50
Aww, now that was just a low blow. :P

Searing Fire, gets around all flame-immunity :p
#5
aughisky
Mar 18, 2009 19:18:07 I meant to go from +++ to +++++, since expansion gives you two at once.
Why doesn't Monkey Grip stack?
#6
ozgun
Mar 18, 2009 23:36:31
Colossal++++ from Improved Natural Attack. 32d6
Colossal+++++ from Monster of Legend. 64d6

This, doesn't work.
++++ to +++++ does NOT double your damage.

Monkey Grip lets you wield "one size larger than you are", same with Powerful Build, and from what I know, Balanced. You are Large (or Gargantuan, with Expansion). You can only wield ONE size larger than you are, not 3.
#7
Kevin_Andrew_Murphy
Mar 19, 2009 5:40:46 Why aren't you adding on Enlarge Person + Permanency?
#8
uhm_hoi
Mar 19, 2009 6:24:46 Because you'd have to be humanoid for that, a half giant isn't a humanoid
#9
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Mar 19, 2009 9:08:55 I see your trying to pull all the stops. Keep in mind most people are allergic to that.

Check here if you want to see some good efforts at increasing weapon base damage without going Monk. Be warned though, extra arms for the extra handedness to hold a larger weapon size seemed to be the way the thread evolved.
#10
aughisky
Mar 19, 2009 10:19:14
Monkey Grip lets you wield "one size larger than you are", same with Powerful Build, and from what I know, Balanced. You are Large (or Gargantuan, with Expansion). You can only wield ONE size larger than you are, not 3.

Oh. I didn't know that they didn't stack. The way balanced gave a size up was, Balanced lets you wield a 2-handed weapon in 1 hand. If you increase the size of that weapon one more, thus wielding it 2-handed, you get a size up.
#11
ozgun
Mar 19, 2009 13:47:54
Oh. I didn't know that they didn't stack. The way balanced gave a size up was, Balanced lets you wield a 2-handed weapon in 1 hand. If you increase the size of that weapon one more, thus wielding it 2-handed, you get a size up.

That only happens in sci-fi movies, and 3.0. Oh, we're in 3.5 too, sorry.
#12
aughisky
Mar 19, 2009 18:54:29
That only happens in sci-fi movies, and 3.0. Oh, we're in 3.5 too, sorry.

...
That's not very nice. You could just say it without being rude.
#13
jameswilliamogle
Mar 19, 2009 19:01:10 The Titan major Bloodline lets you wield a guargantuan two-handed warhammer. Maybe not so helpful; you've got the main schtick w/ Expansion. Just use Greater Might Wollop and you're set, I think. I have no more advice.

Good luck!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 aughisky Mar 18, 2009 13:40:11	Alright, this is my first post, here, so let's see if I'm doing this right. I'm trying to build a character that stacks size increases for extra damage on their attacks. After coming through the books, this is the build I came up with. I was wondering if it can be done better, or if I did something wrong in making this one. Base Creature: Half-Giant (XPH) Templates: Half-Minotaur (Dragon Magazine) Evolved Creature (Arcana Evolved) Monster of Legend (MMII) Class Levels: Psychic Warrior 6 Feats: Overchannel (PsyWar Bonus 1) Talented (Lvl 1) Psionic Talent (PsyWar Bonus 2) Monkey Grip (3rd lvl) Improved Initiative (MoL bonus) Multiattack (MoL bonus) Sturdy (Evolved Bonus Feat) Weapon Focus (One Natural Weapon, greatsword (Graft weapon makes it count as a natural weapon) (Evolved Bonus Feat) Improved Natural Attack (Greatsword) (6th lvl) Powers: Expansion Graft Weapon x x x x Equipment: +1 Balanced Sizing Mithral Greatsword (Using mithral weapon rules here) +1 Metaline Fullplate (Shaped into Gigant Armor, from the same thread as the above sword) With the above build, this is the progression of damage: Starting at medium size. 2d6 (normal greatsword damage) Large size from Half-Minotaur. 3d6 Considered Huge Size by Powerful Build (Half-Giant racial ability). 4d6 Gargantuan from Monkey Grip (-2 on attack rolls). 6d6 Colossal from Balanced (Wielded two handed). 8d6 Colossal++ from Augmented Expansion. 16d6 Colossal+++ from Evolved Creature. 24d6 Colossal++++ from Improved Natural Attack. 32d6 Colossal+++++ from Monster of Legend. 64d6 So, 64d6+str bonus and other enhancements, at approximately CR 11 (I wasn't able to get a good measure of ECL. Can anyone give me some pointers on how to make this better?
#2 ozgun Mar 18, 2009 13:42:42	Try a monk for starting point 2d10 instead of 2d6. (with Superior Unarmed Strike & Monk's Belt, 11 levels of Monk does it) Edit1: Another one, you don't double damage when going from Colossal+++ to Colossal++++. Monkey Grip doesn't stack with Powerful Build. I have no idea about Evolved Creature, Monster of Legend & Balanced, but you've already lost 2 sizes, so you're at 32d6, not 64d6. Edit2: Arcana Evolved is non-official, just FYI. Technically, you can't add Monster of Legend template on a Half-Giant (Giant type), so that's out too. Edit3: Let's see now, you have Expansion for +2, INA for +1, Powerful Build for +1, Half-Minotaur for +1, and that's about all you get for sizes. You're at 16d6 official, 24d6 with Arcana Evolved. Edit4: Which book is 'Balanced' from? Not MIC nor core... Also, the mithril rules in that site is broken, just so you know. Edit5: If you're going with unofficial rules, why not just use The Lightning Warrior?
#3 phaedrusxy Mar 18, 2009 14:52:01	If you're going with unofficial rules, why not just use The Lightning Warrior? Aww, now that was just a low blow. :P
#4 ozgun Mar 18, 2009 14:55:50	Aww, now that was just a low blow. :P Searing Fire, gets around all flame-immunity :p
#5 aughisky Mar 18, 2009 19:18:07	I meant to go from +++ to +++++, since expansion gives you two at once. Why doesn't Monkey Grip stack?
#6 ozgun Mar 18, 2009 23:36:31	Colossal++++ from Improved Natural Attack. 32d6 Colossal+++++ from Monster of Legend. 64d6 This, doesn't work. ++++ to +++++ does NOT double your damage. Monkey Grip lets you wield "one size larger than you are", same with Powerful Build, and from what I know, Balanced. You are Large (or Gargantuan, with Expansion). You can only wield ONE size larger than you are, not 3.
#7 Kevin_Andrew_Murphy Mar 19, 2009 5:40:46	Why aren't you adding on Enlarge Person + Permanency?
#8 uhm_hoi Mar 19, 2009 6:24:46	Because you'd have to be humanoid for that, a half giant isn't a humanoid
#9 PlzBreakMyCampaign Mar 19, 2009 9:08:55	I see your trying to pull all the stops. Keep in mind most people are allergic to that. Check here if you want to see some good efforts at increasing weapon base damage without going Monk. Be warned though, extra arms for the extra handedness to hold a larger weapon size seemed to be the way the thread evolved.
#10 aughisky Mar 19, 2009 10:19:14	Monkey Grip lets you wield "one size larger than you are", same with Powerful Build, and from what I know, Balanced. You are Large (or Gargantuan, with Expansion). You can only wield ONE size larger than you are, not 3. Oh. I didn't know that they didn't stack. The way balanced gave a size up was, Balanced lets you wield a 2-handed weapon in 1 hand. If you increase the size of that weapon one more, thus wielding it 2-handed, you get a size up.
#11 ozgun Mar 19, 2009 13:47:54	Oh. I didn't know that they didn't stack. The way balanced gave a size up was, Balanced lets you wield a 2-handed weapon in 1 hand. If you increase the size of that weapon one more, thus wielding it 2-handed, you get a size up. That only happens in sci-fi movies, and 3.0. Oh, we're in 3.5 too, sorry.
#12 aughisky Mar 19, 2009 18:54:29	That only happens in sci-fi movies, and 3.0. Oh, we're in 3.5 too, sorry. ... That's not very nice. You could just say it without being rude.
#13 jameswilliamogle Mar 19, 2009 19:01:10	The Titan major Bloodline lets you wield a guargantuan two-handed warhammer. Maybe not so helpful; you've got the main schtick w/ Expansion. Just use Greater Might Wollop and you're set, I think. I have no more advice. Good luck!