Extreme Gestalt Versatilock - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 OpakeDragon Mar 15, 2008 3:08:53	So with a three person party my DM is allowed us the option of a special type of Gestalt: same as normal Gestalt only three classes combined to determine base attack bonus, saves, hit die and skills, but with a stipulation that we cannot go multiclassing crazy (have the same three base classes the whole time not counting PrC's). We are allowed one PrC at a time and PrC dipping is ok. Needless to say we like this option and are running with it. Another interesting factor of this campaign is that the world will be create by DM-Player cooperation, and we can propose house rules that we all vote on (and the DM agrees to). A major one is that improved Crit and Keen stacks their effects... it makes sense to us that if you train to be able to find the sweet spot that a spell would enhance not replace that training. Another "house rule" was how we rolled for stats; The three of us would roll two stats each (5d6 take the best three; no rerolls) and we would all get the combined stat scores. We each have two 16's, and four 14's we were incredibly lucky. The Basic premise for the campaign is two arcane catastrophes and this party has been an arcanist hunting group; we like to fight fire with fire. The party has recently quit their occupation after being ordered to confront a specific arcanist in a populated area (we are all pretty much good aligned and near chaotic), let's just say that villagers died and full orphanages were destroy before our eyes by rogue disintegrate spells being flung at us. We never really hated arcanists but we have also always been in societies that hate them so surviving meant bending our views. Which was ok for a while because most of the arcanists we were sent after were evil destructive creatures that needed to be stopped before they hurt more people. While we are permitted to use magic to defend ourselves from magic its generally a bad idea to flaunt our power in populated areas else rick lynch mobs. For the basic concept of my build I chose to be a Fighter//Rogue//Warlock, thus giving me high hit dice, full bab saves and skill points. I have been working out my invocation, feat and skill trick selection so that he will be very playable from 5th level (our starting level) up to 20th. For the most part I want my character to be at least a little adaptable but I really like a few tactics that I will go into detail soon. The actual placement of the skill tricks is not as important at this point so I am only listing the ones I wish to get and the minimum level at which I can. So far my build consists of a kukri wielding warlock/rogue with fighter for feats, HD, Fort and BAB. He uses a kukri because he is also going Invisable Blade(tweaked prereqs). I will likely be a Human or a Strongheart Halfling (LA >0 not allowed), and place my stats in order Str14, Dex16+1(4th level), Con16, Int14, Wis14, Cha14 Ftr\|Rog\|Loc 5 / InB\|Rog\|Loc 5 / OcS\|Rog\|Loc 5 / Ftr\|Rog\|Loc +5 Feats 1 Weapon Focus(kukri), Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes 2 Weapon Finesse* 3 Combat Casting 4 Vexing Flanker* 5 6 Adaptive Flanker, Extra Invocation(Hideous Blow) 7 8 Improved Critical(kukri) 9 Ability Focus(Eldritch Blast) 10 Improved Critical(Eldritch Blast)* 11 12 , Feat 13 14 15 Feat 16 * 17 18 , Extra Invocation(Wall of Perilous Flame) 19 20
#2 davethemagicweasel Mar 15, 2008 8:09:39	I'd replace 3 of those Warlock levels with Hellfire Warlock, and toss in a level of Binder for Naberius. If you're DM doesn't mind you souping that up with Legacy Champion/Uncanny Trickster I'd do that too. And if ToB is allowed I'd put some dips of Warblade/Crusader/Swordsage in as well.
#3 amadithegreat Mar 15, 2008 9:00:15	WTH is point in wielding Kukris, Eldritch Glaive FTW? A lot better damage output. 3 levels of Hellfire Warlock are quite essential, and feat: Shape Soulmeld to mitigate the damage. Beguiler seems nice for you as well..
#4 mplindustries Mar 15, 2008 9:35:09	If you dual-wield Kukris and don't use Warblade/Bloodclaw Master, you're missing out. If you can get two Keen Aptitude Kukris, you'd threaten on a 12-20. Then, with Lightning Maces, you'd get a free attack everytime you threaten. And you'd qualify for Bludgeoning Melee Mastery and Crushing Blow, so each attack you make gives your others a cumulative +1 bonus to hit. You'd end up with very very long strings of attacks. I'd probably go for Fighter//Rogue//Warblade or Warblade//Rogue//Spellcaster of some kind for self-buffs. Edit: Warblade//Rogue//Incarnate if you use Incarnum. An Evil Incarnate can get amazing flat bonuses to damage.
#5 feintmaster Mar 15, 2008 12:17:23	If you dual-wield Kukris and don't use Warblade/Bloodclaw Master, you're missing out. If you can get two Keen Aptitude Kukris, you'd threaten on a 12-20. Then, with Lightning Maces, you'd get a free attack everytime you threaten. And you'd qualify for Bludgeoning Melee Mastery and Crushing Blow, so each attack you make gives your others a cumulative +1 bonus to hit. That doesn't work.
#6 OpakeDragon Mar 15, 2008 13:03:28	I'd replace 3 of those Warlock levels with Hellfire Warlock, and toss in a level of Binder for Naberius. If you're DM doesn't mind you souping that up with Legacy Champion/Uncanny Trickster I'd do that too. And if ToB is allowed I'd put some dips of Warblade/Crusader/Swordsage in as well. DM is not allowing dipping into base classes because he knows I would take something like wizard/ftr/warlock for first level then wizard/sorc/warlock the rest of the way and get 20 BAB (because he doesnt want to do fractional bases because he thinks it would be too much of a hassle) with nearly full spellcasting... the way I have it I swap out ten levels of fighter for 5 levels of Invisible Blade and 5 levels of Occult Slayer; both of which are full BAB thus I continue to have full bab and get my rogue/warlock levels unaffected. WTH is point in wielding Kukris, Eldritch Glaive FTW? A lot better damage output. 3 levels of Hellfire Warlock are quite essential, and feat: Shape Soulmeld to mitigate the damage. Beguiler seems nice for you as well.. first off I would be weilding only one kukri and that is so I feint as a free action(a flat-footed opponent cannot AoO against Hideous Blow) and I still threaten the squares around me. Also I will be using the eldritch glaive as I said before but that is a touch attack thus making it easier to hit him as it is so flat-footed is not needed but with adaptive flanker later on I can flank easier (I will be amending the feat selection to include adaptive flanker and savvy rogue). I pretty much have my class selection down I will look into the hellfire PrC next(and if I do choose to take it Ill take the soulmeld feat but either way thatll be a little far off since I can't do it till the back 5 levels of the build that may never see the light of Pelor :D )
#7 OpakeDragon Mar 15, 2008 13:47:00	I just had a thought, can an Invisible Blade feinting(free action) with their IB weapon use another weapon in the next attack? For example a warlock/IB with a kukri and Eldritch Glaive; feint(free action) an opponent (with kukri) and then use the remaining full-round action to use Eldritch Glaive using touch attacks against a flat-footed opponent... at least for the first attack in the round.
#8 osedox Mar 15, 2008 17:32:50	Just out of curiosity what are your two team mates leaning towards?
#9 theendisnear Mar 15, 2008 19:42:57	That doesn't work. Why not, I'd like to know, I like the Idea of the character:P... D-End
#10 allarian Mar 15, 2008 20:29:13	Why not, I'd like to know, I like the Idea of the character:P... D-End Does the word kukri sound anything like the word mace to you?
#11 OpakeDragon Mar 15, 2008 21:12:47	Just out of curiosity what are your two team mates leaning towards? one I know is going to be a barbarian of some type the other is going to be a cleric/hexblade/fighter we are all neutral/chaotic good.
#12 feintmaster Mar 15, 2008 21:36:14	CustServ ruling, but talk to your DM... CustServ isn't the boss of him.
#13 OpakeDragon Mar 15, 2008 21:49:45	CustServ ruling, but talk to your DM... CustServ isn't the boss of him. with a name like that I would expect you to be the authority on feinting :D ...just kidding anyway, the way I see it, for example, if you have two weapons in hand there's no reason you can't make someone focus on the left weapon as you strike them with the right. I mean the whole point to feinting is misdirection.
#14 feintmaster Mar 15, 2008 22:04:35	You can get a swift action feint regardless of what weapon you're holding out of Beguiler 6. Also, Surprising Riposte will get you Sneak Attack damage in a full attack. DotU.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

OpakeDragon

Mar 15, 2008 3:08:53

So with a three person party my DM is allowed us the option of a special type of Gestalt: same as normal Gestalt only three classes combined to determine base attack bonus, saves, hit die and skills, but with a stipulation that we cannot go multiclassing crazy (have the same three base classes the whole time not counting PrC's). We are allowed one PrC at a time and PrC dipping is ok. Needless to say we like this option and are running with it.

Another interesting factor of this campaign is that the world will be create by DM-Player cooperation, and we can propose house rules that we all vote on (and the DM agrees to). A major one is that improved Crit and Keen stacks their effects... it makes sense to us that if you train to be able to find the sweet spot that a spell would enhance not replace that training. Another "house rule" was how we rolled for stats; The three of us would roll two stats each (5d6 take the best three; no rerolls) and we would all get the combined stat scores. We each have two 16's, and four 14's we were incredibly lucky.

The Basic premise for the campaign is two arcane catastrophes and this party has been an arcanist hunting group; we like to fight fire with fire. The party has recently quit their occupation after being ordered to confront a specific arcanist in a populated area (we are all pretty much good aligned and near chaotic), let's just say that villagers died and full orphanages were destroy before our eyes by rogue disintegrate spells being flung at us. We never really hated arcanists but we have also always been in societies that hate them so surviving meant bending our views. Which was ok for a while because most of the arcanists we were sent after were evil destructive creatures that needed to be stopped before they hurt more people. While we are permitted to use magic to defend ourselves from magic its generally a bad idea to flaunt our power in populated areas else rick lynch mobs.

For the basic concept of my build I chose to be a Fighter//Rogue//Warlock, thus giving me high hit dice, full bab saves and skill points. I have been working out my invocation, feat and skill trick selection so that he will be very playable from 5th level (our starting level) up to 20th. For the most part I want my character to be at least a little adaptable but I really like a few tactics that I will go into detail soon. The actual placement of the skill tricks is not as important at this point so I am only listing the ones I wish to get and the minimum level at which I can.

So far my build consists of a kukri wielding warlock/rogue with fighter for feats, HD, Fort and BAB. He uses a kukri because he is also going Invisable Blade(tweaked prereqs). I will likely be a Human or a Strongheart Halfling (LA >0 not allowed), and place my stats in order Str14, Dex16+1(4th level), Con16, Int14, Wis14, Cha14

Ftr|Rog|Loc 5 / InB|Rog|Loc 5 / OcS|Rog|Loc 5 / Ftr|Rog|Loc +5

Feats

1 Weapon Focus(kukri)*, Improved Initiative*, Combat Reflexes
2 Weapon Finesse*
3 Combat Casting
4 Vexing Flanker*
5
6 Adaptive Flanker*, Extra Invocation(Hideous Blow)
7
8 Improved Critical(kukri)*
9 Ability Focus(Eldritch Blast)
10 Improved Critical(Eldritch Blast)*
11
12 *, Feat
13
14 *
15 Feat
16 *
17
18 *, Extra Invocation(Wall of Perilous Flame)
19
20 *

davethemagicweasel

Mar 15, 2008 8:09:39

I'd replace 3 of those Warlock levels with Hellfire Warlock, and toss in a level of Binder for Naberius. If you're DM doesn't mind you souping that up with Legacy Champion/Uncanny Trickster I'd do that too.

And if ToB is allowed I'd put some dips of Warblade/Crusader/Swordsage in as well.

amadithegreat

Mar 15, 2008 9:00:15

WTH is point in wielding Kukris, Eldritch Glaive FTW? A lot better damage output. 3 levels of Hellfire Warlock are quite essential, and feat: Shape Soulmeld to mitigate the damage. Beguiler seems nice for you as well..

mplindustries

Mar 15, 2008 9:35:09

If you dual-wield Kukris and don't use Warblade/Bloodclaw Master, you're missing out. If you can get two Keen Aptitude Kukris, you'd threaten on a 12-20. Then, with Lightning Maces, you'd get a free attack everytime you threaten. And you'd qualify for Bludgeoning Melee Mastery and Crushing Blow, so each attack you make gives your others a cumulative +1 bonus to hit. You'd end up with very very long strings of attacks. I'd probably go for Fighter//Rogue//Warblade or Warblade//Rogue//Spellcaster of some kind for self-buffs.

Edit: Warblade//Rogue//Incarnate if you use Incarnum. An Evil Incarnate can get amazing flat bonuses to damage.

feintmaster

Mar 15, 2008 12:17:23

If you dual-wield Kukris and don't use Warblade/Bloodclaw Master, you're missing out. If you can get two Keen Aptitude Kukris, you'd threaten on a 12-20. Then, with Lightning Maces, you'd get a free attack everytime you threaten. And you'd qualify for Bludgeoning Melee Mastery and Crushing Blow, so each attack you make gives your others a cumulative +1 bonus to hit.

That doesn't work.

OpakeDragon

Mar 15, 2008 13:03:28

I'd replace 3 of those Warlock levels with Hellfire Warlock, and toss in a level of Binder for Naberius. If you're DM doesn't mind you souping that up with Legacy Champion/Uncanny Trickster I'd do that too.

And if ToB is allowed I'd put some dips of Warblade/Crusader/Swordsage in as well.

DM is not allowing dipping into base classes because he knows I would take something like wizard/ftr/warlock for first level then wizard/sorc/warlock the rest of the way and get 20 BAB (because he doesnt want to do fractional bases because he thinks it would be too much of a hassle) with nearly full spellcasting... the way I have it I swap out ten levels of fighter for 5 levels of Invisible Blade and 5 levels of Occult Slayer; both of which are full BAB thus I continue to have full bab and get my rogue/warlock levels unaffected.

WTH is point in wielding Kukris, Eldritch Glaive FTW? A lot better damage output. 3 levels of Hellfire Warlock are quite essential, and feat: Shape Soulmeld to mitigate the damage. Beguiler seems nice for you as well..

first off I would be weilding only one kukri and that is so I feint as a free action(a flat-footed opponent cannot AoO against Hideous Blow) and I still threaten the squares around me. Also I will be using the eldritch glaive as I said before but that is a touch attack thus making it easier to hit him as it is so flat-footed is not needed but with adaptive flanker later on I can flank easier (I will be amending the feat selection to include adaptive flanker and savvy rogue).

I pretty much have my class selection down I will look into the hellfire PrC next(and if I do choose to take it Ill take the soulmeld feat but either way thatll be a little far off since I can't do it till the back 5 levels of the build that may never see the light of Pelor :D )

OpakeDragon

Mar 15, 2008 13:47:00

I just had a thought, can an Invisible Blade feinting(free action) with their IB weapon use another weapon in the next attack? For example a warlock/IB with a kukri and Eldritch Glaive; feint(free action) an opponent (with kukri) and then use the remaining full-round action to use Eldritch Glaive using touch attacks against a flat-footed opponent... at least for the first attack in the round.

osedox

Mar 15, 2008 17:32:50

Just out of curiosity what are your two team mates leaning towards?

theendisnear

Mar 15, 2008 19:42:57

That doesn't work.

Why not, I'd like to know, I like the Idea of the character:P...

D-End

#10

allarian

Mar 15, 2008 20:29:13

Why not, I'd like to know, I like the Idea of the character:P...

D-End

Does the word kukri sound anything like the word mace to you?

#11

OpakeDragon

Mar 15, 2008 21:12:47

Just out of curiosity what are your two team mates leaning towards?

one I know is going to be a barbarian of some type the other is going to be a cleric/hexblade/fighter we are all neutral/chaotic good.

#12

feintmaster

Mar 15, 2008 21:36:14

CustServ ruling, but talk to your DM... CustServ isn't the boss of him.

#13

OpakeDragon

Mar 15, 2008 21:49:45

CustServ ruling, but talk to your DM... CustServ isn't the boss of him.

with a name like that I would expect you to be the authority on feinting :D

...just kidding anyway, the way I see it, for example, if you have two weapons in hand there's no reason you can't make someone focus on the left weapon as you strike them with the right. I mean the whole point to feinting is misdirection.

#14

feintmaster

Mar 15, 2008 22:04:35

You can get a swift action feint regardless of what weapon you're holding out of Beguiler 6.

Also, Surprising Riposte will get you Sneak Attack damage in a full attack. DotU.