Factotum Thrower (ToB and OA 3.5 content) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Factotum Thrower (ToB and OA 3.5 content)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
SixGunLover
Jun 02, 2009 20:31:08 First of all, I just want to thank everyone who's contributed to any of my threads so far - you've all been a huge help and I appreciate your fine work.

Now, I'm working on a thrower build, based around the Factotum base class (which I've fallen in love with). The primary goal is to have a build that is capable of dishing out large quantities of damage at range (in part through Iaijutsu Focus and/or Sneak Attack dice from Cunning Strike) but is capable of holding its own in melee combat as well. The secondary goal is a character that's versatile and has a wide range of decent skills (which is pretty much covered by the Factotum levels and abilities).

Before we begin, the character's race is drow elf (LA +2), so keep this in mind.

I plan on taking two flaws at first level (recommendations on flaws welcome) to get extra feats - as a Factotum, the more times I take Font of Inspiration, the better. Any feat not required by prestige classes or extremely useful to the build (likely Able Learner to keep access to all skills, possibly Keen Intellect to dump Wisdom and make the character more SAD, and whatever else - Manyshot? Recommendations welcome) will be used on Font of Inspiration. I've heard Stormguard Warrior would be a good choice - is that true? EDIT: It looks like Flick of the Wrist could be an option too, since when combined with Thunderous Throw from Bloodstorm Blade it would work on ranged attacks.

So far, I'm thinking the build should include:

Factotum 8, some benefits include:
- access to all skills, so take ranks in Iaijutsu Focus for potentially +9d6 damage, since RAW you simply have to draw a melee weapon, not attack in melee
- the ability to add sneak attack dice in return for inspiration points, which could be combined with Iaijutsu Focus. These two abilities contribute to making the build a viable alternative to rogue levels as part of a fighter/rogue type build
- Cunning Surge: 3 inspiration points for an extra standard action per round

Warblade X (any suggestions?)
- access to manuevers in order to access Bloodstorm Blade

Bloodstorm Blade 4 (seems to be the maximum amount of levels worth taking)
- Lightning Ricochet allows thrown weapon to immediately return, allowing full attack action with a single thrown weapon or a mix of ranged/melee attacks
- one bonus feat from the Fighter list at 3rd level

One question on Bloodstorm Blade - do I have to use an Iron Heart weapon to get the benefit of the abilities? I was planning on using dagger(s) or maybe even kukri(s). The idea of throwing swords or axes doesn't really fit the character concept I have in mind.

Master Thrower 5
- Evasion
- Improved Critical
- Three thrown weapon tricks. Having never built a thrower before I'm not sure what to take - any recommendations? Weak Spot seems like almost a must; Trip Shot looks like it would be good when you take into account that the Factotum gets Int to trip checks and could use Inspiration points as a bonus to the roll; and finally, maybe Palm Throw or Double Toss? Which is better? I'm assuming Palm Throw, since that means I won't have to invest in a bunch of TWF feats.

Any ideas, contributions and suggestions on anything else (maneuver choices, tactics, ideal weapons/items to get) would be much appreciated. If anyone were to write up an actual completed build, I would construct a small shrine in my home and light a candle in their honor for the rest of my life. But every little helps.
#2
gorfnad_the_shiznit
Jun 02, 2009 21:40:27 For Master Thrower builds I recommend these tricks.
Palm Throw - 2 thrown weapons at one time is nice
Two With One Blow - almost ricochet like, useful in skirmishes
Weak Spot - Ranged Touch Attacks!!! Dead Sexy
#3
Balthanon
Jun 02, 2009 22:16:01 You only have one level of Warblade available in a 20 level build with +2 LA and 17 other class levels, so your stance is going to be Punishing Stance. (You need an Iron Heart stance and an Iron Heart maneuver.) You only have three maneuvers over all, plus any feats that you spend on Martial Study/Stance.

You'll want to insert the level at 5 or 9, depending on when you're picking up Bloodstorm Blade. If it's 5th, I would make your maneuvers Disarming Strike, Moment of Perfect Mind (assuming you put ranks into Concentration), and possibly Mountain Hammer. (If you're willing to put feats towards Martial Study, a Tiger Claw maneuver to work towards Dancing Mongoose later on would work as well.)

If you're starting after 8th, you have 3rd level maneuvers available as well. At that point, you might want to go with Iron Heart Surge and potentially White Raven Tactics and another White Raven maneuver (to meet the one maneuver prerequisite on Tactics). Moment of Perfect Mind is still a strong choice though, to shore up your Will save.
#4
SixGunLover
Jun 03, 2009 19:37:51 Thanks for the responses.

Balthanon - thanks for pointing that out, and for the recommendations. Disarming Strike looks good. Do you really think Moment of Perfect Mind is necessary? I hadn't really planned on investing more than a few ranks in Concentration, since I can use Cunning Knowledge to get a +8 bonus to a skill check in which I have at least one rank, and I'll rarely be using Concentration. Also, I'm probably going to take Keen Intellect, which will let me use my Intelligence modifier on Will saves, so it won't be as bad.

What about Sapphire Nightmare Blade? It also requires a Concentration check (against the opponent's AC) but offers a way to render an opponent flat-footed (allowing for Iaijutsu Focus bonus damage and the option of adding sneak attack damage, as well as an addition +1d6 bonus damage).

As for Martial Study, I'd rather not go down that road. Despite the prospect of additional attacks, I think those feats would be better spent on Font of Inspiration in order to fuel the highly versatile Factotum abilities.

Apart from all the other stuff, any suggestions for other potential ways of rendering opponents flat-footed? So far I've got blurstriking weapons, flick of the wrist and the acrobatic backstab, hidden blade and sudden draw (the latter two of which involve concealed weapons) skill tricks.
#5
Balthanon
Jun 03, 2009 20:24:22 Font of Inspiration is limited by your Intelligence bonus, so eventually you won't be able to take that anymore-- though if you have a +5 Int bonus, that probably won't be a concern.

The nice thing about maneuvers is really that they're something you can refresh throughout an encounter. With one level of warblade, you're not going to be able to pick up something like Dancing Mongoose until 15th level or so anyway though. It's not a necessity by any stretch, just a decent option.

For Moment of Perfect Mind, it depends on how often your DM throws encounter ending saves at you. Running into a vampire or an enchanter when you've done a lot of multiclassing in classes without a good will save can be dangerous.

For flatfooted opponents, grease is one of the simplest methods-- or for that matter, a bag of marbles. If your opponent doesn't have 5 ranks in Balance, they'll be flatfooted when making Balance checks.
#6
geekmasterflash
Jun 03, 2009 22:10:48 Ahem:
If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately after drawing a melee weapon, yatta yatta yatta.

#7
SixGunLover
Jun 04, 2009 2:53:30 Would the TWF feat tree be a worthwhile investment for this build?

geekmasterflash:
Not looking to take the thread off-topic, but a dagger is a melee weapon. Hence, drawing a dagger counts as drawing a melee weapon, as per the sourcebook. If the sourcebook said "If you attack a flat-footed opponent in melee", there'd be an issue, because I'm planning to draw it and make a ranged attack. The way things stand, RAW, there isn't an issue. If there are DMs and campaigns out there that aren't following this interpretation of the rules, fine and dandy - different strokes for different folks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 SixGunLover Jun 02, 2009 20:31:08	First of all, I just want to thank everyone who's contributed to any of my threads so far - you've all been a huge help and I appreciate your fine work. Now, I'm working on a thrower build, based around the Factotum base class (which I've fallen in love with). The primary goal is to have a build that is capable of dishing out large quantities of damage at range (in part through Iaijutsu Focus and/or Sneak Attack dice from Cunning Strike) but is capable of holding its own in melee combat as well. The secondary goal is a character that's versatile and has a wide range of decent skills (which is pretty much covered by the Factotum levels and abilities). Before we begin, the character's race is drow elf (LA +2), so keep this in mind. I plan on taking two flaws at first level (recommendations on flaws welcome) to get extra feats - as a Factotum, the more times I take Font of Inspiration, the better. Any feat not required by prestige classes or extremely useful to the build (likely Able Learner to keep access to all skills, possibly Keen Intellect to dump Wisdom and make the character more SAD, and whatever else - Manyshot? Recommendations welcome) will be used on Font of Inspiration. I've heard Stormguard Warrior would be a good choice - is that true? EDIT: It looks like Flick of the Wrist could be an option too, since when combined with Thunderous Throw from Bloodstorm Blade it would work on ranged attacks. So far, I'm thinking the build should include: Factotum 8, some benefits include: - access to all skills, so take ranks in Iaijutsu Focus for potentially +9d6 damage, since RAW you simply have to draw a melee weapon, not attack in melee - the ability to add sneak attack dice in return for inspiration points, which could be combined with Iaijutsu Focus. These two abilities contribute to making the build a viable alternative to rogue levels as part of a fighter/rogue type build - Cunning Surge: 3 inspiration points for an extra standard action per round Warblade X (any suggestions?) - access to manuevers in order to access Bloodstorm Blade Bloodstorm Blade 4 (seems to be the maximum amount of levels worth taking) - Lightning Ricochet allows thrown weapon to immediately return, allowing full attack action with a single thrown weapon or a mix of ranged/melee attacks - one bonus feat from the Fighter list at 3rd level One question on Bloodstorm Blade - do I have to use an Iron Heart weapon to get the benefit of the abilities? I was planning on using dagger(s) or maybe even kukri(s). The idea of throwing swords or axes doesn't really fit the character concept I have in mind. Master Thrower 5 - Evasion - Improved Critical - Three thrown weapon tricks. Having never built a thrower before I'm not sure what to take - any recommendations? Weak Spot seems like almost a must; Trip Shot looks like it would be good when you take into account that the Factotum gets Int to trip checks and could use Inspiration points as a bonus to the roll; and finally, maybe Palm Throw or Double Toss? Which is better? I'm assuming Palm Throw, since that means I won't have to invest in a bunch of TWF feats. Any ideas, contributions and suggestions on anything else (maneuver choices, tactics, ideal weapons/items to get) would be much appreciated. If anyone were to write up an actual completed build, I would construct a small shrine in my home and light a candle in their honor for the rest of my life. But every little helps.
#2 gorfnad_the_shiznit Jun 02, 2009 21:40:27	For Master Thrower builds I recommend these tricks. Palm Throw - 2 thrown weapons at one time is nice Two With One Blow - almost ricochet like, useful in skirmishes Weak Spot - Ranged Touch Attacks!!! Dead Sexy
#3 Balthanon Jun 02, 2009 22:16:01	You only have one level of Warblade available in a 20 level build with +2 LA and 17 other class levels, so your stance is going to be Punishing Stance. (You need an Iron Heart stance and an Iron Heart maneuver.) You only have three maneuvers over all, plus any feats that you spend on Martial Study/Stance. You'll want to insert the level at 5 or 9, depending on when you're picking up Bloodstorm Blade. If it's 5th, I would make your maneuvers Disarming Strike, Moment of Perfect Mind (assuming you put ranks into Concentration), and possibly Mountain Hammer. (If you're willing to put feats towards Martial Study, a Tiger Claw maneuver to work towards Dancing Mongoose later on would work as well.) If you're starting after 8th, you have 3rd level maneuvers available as well. At that point, you might want to go with Iron Heart Surge and potentially White Raven Tactics and another White Raven maneuver (to meet the one maneuver prerequisite on Tactics). Moment of Perfect Mind is still a strong choice though, to shore up your Will save.
#4 SixGunLover Jun 03, 2009 19:37:51	Thanks for the responses. Balthanon - thanks for pointing that out, and for the recommendations. Disarming Strike looks good. Do you really think Moment of Perfect Mind is necessary? I hadn't really planned on investing more than a few ranks in Concentration, since I can use Cunning Knowledge to get a +8 bonus to a skill check in which I have at least one rank, and I'll rarely be using Concentration. Also, I'm probably going to take Keen Intellect, which will let me use my Intelligence modifier on Will saves, so it won't be as bad. What about Sapphire Nightmare Blade? It also requires a Concentration check (against the opponent's AC) but offers a way to render an opponent flat-footed (allowing for Iaijutsu Focus bonus damage and the option of adding sneak attack damage, as well as an addition +1d6 bonus damage). As for Martial Study, I'd rather not go down that road. Despite the prospect of additional attacks, I think those feats would be better spent on Font of Inspiration in order to fuel the highly versatile Factotum abilities. Apart from all the other stuff, any suggestions for other potential ways of rendering opponents flat-footed? So far I've got blurstriking weapons, flick of the wrist and the acrobatic backstab, hidden blade and sudden draw (the latter two of which involve concealed weapons) skill tricks.
#5 Balthanon Jun 03, 2009 20:24:22	Font of Inspiration is limited by your Intelligence bonus, so eventually you won't be able to take that anymore-- though if you have a +5 Int bonus, that probably won't be a concern. The nice thing about maneuvers is really that they're something you can refresh throughout an encounter. With one level of warblade, you're not going to be able to pick up something like Dancing Mongoose until 15th level or so anyway though. It's not a necessity by any stretch, just a decent option. For Moment of Perfect Mind, it depends on how often your DM throws encounter ending saves at you. Running into a vampire or an enchanter when you've done a lot of multiclassing in classes without a good will save can be dangerous. For flatfooted opponents, grease is one of the simplest methods-- or for that matter, a bag of marbles. If your opponent doesn't have 5 ranks in Balance, they'll be flatfooted when making Balance checks.
#6 geekmasterflash Jun 03, 2009 22:10:48	Ahem: If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately after drawing a melee weapon, yatta yatta yatta.
#7 SixGunLover Jun 04, 2009 2:53:30	Would the TWF feat tree be a worthwhile investment for this build? geekmasterflash: Not looking to take the thread off-topic, but a dagger is a melee weapon. Hence, drawing a dagger counts as drawing a melee weapon, as per the sourcebook. If the sourcebook said "If you attack a flat-footed opponent in melee", there'd be an issue, because I'm planning to draw it and make a ranged attack. The way things stand, RAW, there isn't an issue. If there are DMs and campaigns out there that aren't following this interpretation of the rules, fine and dandy - different strokes for different folks.