Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thefilthylyre Aug 20, 2011 8:44:13	Hi there, In a few weeks I'm playing in a D&D 3.5e roleplay. We start at level 6 and were given a very broad scope with which to build our characters. I decided I wanted to create a mage slayer type fighter as I'm aware most other players (of which there are 9) are basing their character choice on spellcasters; below is the basic layout of my character. *It is important to note that we are only allowed to multi-class with three classes, more than this will result in XP punishment; furthermore it has been emphasised by the GMs that PvP will strongly feature in this RP. Race: Human Classes: Ranger 1 (using the Arcane Hunter class substitution from Complete Mage pg 32)/ Fighter 4 (for the feats!)/Occult Slayer 1 (this will be my main progression) The above is all fine and gravy, it's feats that I need help with. So far I have selected: - Weapon Focus (Greatsword) - Improved Initiative Both prerequisites for Occult Slayer PC - Mage Slayer - Blind-fight - Pierce Magical Concealment These are absolutely fine, but for my next feats do I choose either: Power Attack & Pierce Magical Armour (PA to avoid being a one trick pony, though I can't help thinking PMC will be useless?) or Martial Study: Devoted Spirit & Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades (This would mean that mages could not cast defensively against me (from mage slayer feat) and could not take a five-foot step against me (from ToB)) I could then take PA at my next feat choice Any advice on what is a better feat choice here is more than welcome, as are new recommendations, though classes, race etc are all set in stone now by the GM Thanks
#2 thefilthylyre Aug 20, 2011 8:50:38	Additionally I have chosen a Greatsword for my main weapon as it deals significant damage and I don't need AC against mages (obviously I will against other players, I'm considering spiked fullplate, possibly with a buckler) The ranger levels gave me a great boost to my skills and allowed me to get a high rank in handle animal - this means i've trained a dog for hunting and can keep it close, as it can scent I should be able to sniff out invisible people within 30ft (dependent on wind effects) to help me not get sneak attacked by rogues/surprised by invisible mages etc. Luckily at lvl 6 no one has greater invisibility, but it's only one level away. I am aware of becoming a one-trick-pony however...
#3 Maat_Mons Aug 20, 2011 18:21:54	Be aware that mages like to fight from a distance and are already able to cast fly at 6th level. It's important to be able to get to your enemies if you play a melee character. Raptoran (Races of the Wild) and dragonborn (Races of the Dragon) are both +0 LA races that are able to fly starting at 5th level. Actually, dragonborn is a +0 LA acquired template, so you can add it to an existing character. If you're wondering how to combine worshiping a dragon god and hating arcane casters, I suggest believing that only dragons are worthy of using arcane magic, and other casters are committing sacrilege. Book of Exalted Deeds has a feat called nemesis that lets you detect and pinpoint your favored enemies if they're within 60 feet. This combined with pierce magical concealment is a good way to deal with invisible casters. (Pierce magical concealment doesn't remove the need to attack the correct square.) There actually are feats that let you apply your armor and shield bonus to touch AC, but it requires a total of 5 feats, so I don't think you can fit it in. Dungeonscape has an alternate class feature for rangers that gives trapfinding in place of track. The ability to find and deal with magical traps might fit you concept better than tracking, especially since mages are prone to flying and teleporting.
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Aug 20, 2011 18:42:53	PVP? Ouch. Hopefully it won't be any 1v1 arena-style fights. Even as low as this level, they overwhelmingly favor those who win initiative, especially if that person's a caster.  One piece of advice I can offer is to not deny the utility of a ranged weapon, even in a melee character. Not only are there times when that extra range can make all the difference, there are options available to ranged fighters that simply are not feasable for melee - but unlike the melee ones, they are often just a property of the weapon, rather than any specific feat. Basically, if you make the right bow and quiver, you can include deadly ranged abilities in a melee character. (Of course, this relies upon a half-decent Dexterity score, but most of the really good fighter-types have that, due to Combat Reflexes or TWF.) The basic example is getting a quiver of 50 Spell Storing arrows. Each arrow can hold a single spell, and can be drawn as a free action (although you might want to use a Heward's Handy Haversack - amazing item in any case - to make sure you draw the right ones). Those spells can include things like Wingbind (SpC) which hoses a LOT of people who try to use tactics that hose you in melee, such as flying or charging. Essentially you have 50 slots to hold situational spells that you can use before closing into melee and taking advantage of their softened state.
#5 thefilthylyre Aug 21, 2011 4:21:23	The dragonborn template looks really interesting and being able to fly is pretty awesome. Though it looks as if I lose my human feat and skill points which is quite a hard hit :/ this build is really feat heavy, although the nemesis feat looks pretty cool. Then again at 3rd level Occult Slayer I can detect magical auras (as detect magic) as a free action so that should enable me to pinpoint invisible casters? For the PvP aspect I think we'll have had a few level ups, but we'll be fighting in groups of 3-4 and I should (hopefully) have a friendly caster watching my back Unfortunately there aren't going to be many magical items at all, at least not this early in the campaign. To begin with we weren't allowed anything masterwork (though I was allowed a MW GS as my prestige class requires it). I am definitely considering the use of a composite longbow however! Although at level 6 a wizard can cast fly and windwall and basically become immune to anything except casters :/ Damn this is tricky!
#6 Krusk Aug 21, 2011 10:23:48	I save my old PCs for future notes and such, and here is a mage-slayer I played a little bit ago. The build goes through 20, and such. You might find some useful tips in there. Biggest suggestion is to pump saves, you don't want to fail and be stunned on round 1 for all of combat. Paladin 5/Witch Slayer 5/Occult Slayer 5/ Rogue 2/Gray Guard 3 Basically you get to bounce spells that target you to someone else, and you also have some nice saves. (Grey guard was for roleplay stuff, and i doubt he would help your build) A build starter you might consider looking at would be paladin 2/hexblade 2/X. Two levels of each gives you charisma twice to saves vs spells. IIRC - Witch Slayer is in tome of magic, and grey guard is in complete champion. Instead of a ranged weapon, consider some method of teleportation/flight/dimension door. Brings you right on top of them, and then go at them with your normal weapon. Lion barbarian is worth a mention for full attack on a charge. Casters will put distance, charge in and get full attack is nice.
#7 thefilthylyre Aug 21, 2011 12:33:12	wow witch slayer looks mega! what if i was to take the 'ancestral relic' feat from book of exalted deeds and use it to imbue my sword with the fly spell? Is this a good idea or no?
#8 aelryinth Aug 21, 2011 12:44:53	You can see the Lockdown build in my sig for advice on fighting against casters. Yes, you're going to need some ranged attack. Yes, you're going to need some way to reach them quickly. Lion Totem barbarian and charge damage can outright eliminate casters on a charge. The Uber Charger line of feats is 4 long, and Power Attack is part of it. Grab a valorous weapon and kill them on the charge. (Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack is the Uber Charger feat line). There's a pair of feats that allow you to apply favord enemy bonuses to saves and AC respectively (gotta pick the FE). So, 'arcanists' will get you some nice boosts. At higher levels, you're going to want access to Anti-magic shell to shut them down. ====Aelryinth
#9 thefilthylyre Aug 21, 2011 13:03:10	sorry could you link your lockdown build please? thanks
#10 Krusk Aug 22, 2011 10:26:14	community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...   Its in his signature, which means that little blurb at the end of his posts.
#11 thefilthylyre Aug 24, 2011 6:48:55	ahh cheers, i went the long way round and found it the hard way. would you suggest taking a level in totem lion barbarian (for the pounce) over the ranger level? My DM has told me if I wish to multi-class again (4x) then I'll have to take +1 level adjustment (effective xp penalty (we dont count xp - just level up when DM tells us to)) lion totem looks like it'd be more useful
#12 Krusk Aug 24, 2011 8:36:22	Lion totem is ridicilus good. Its probably worth the LA, especially since you already have 6 or so levels of hit die.
#13 thefilthylyre Sep 01, 2011 4:52:40	Hey, thanks guys that was pretty useful! I found out that this is going to be a very low level magic campaign, so I took the feats: Ancestral Relic (for my sword) and Pierce Magical Protection. I found the vanishing ability in the magic item compendium (which is 8k, not a +2 enchant) which would in theory let me teleport 60ft in a full round of attacks - could be pretty useful to jump suddenly to a mage who is casting at slight range into combat? What other abilities would you recommend - I know there is no heal bitch in the entire thing, so I was considering taking vampiric as it does extra damage and heals me at every swing. Eager/Warning could also be useful for the initiative boost. I'm also definitely going to equip a suped-up-strength-comp-longbow. For future levels I'm thinking of maxing out occult slayer, then at level 11 take 1 level in lion totem (even if it means dropping a level) and taking martial stance at level 9, and martial study at level 12. So by level 12 I should be a mage slaying killing machine (if I even make it that far). My DM has been pretty cool about the AR and has waved the days praying and the nominal gold. Instead he's  said for every 1000gp i would normally have to pay, I have to spill a pint of mage blood - A blood sacrifice, and they have to be alive when I do it. LOL