Feedback on Swashbuckler and Rogue Build - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Feedback on Swashbuckler and Rogue Build

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
bub_the_zombie
Oct 26, 2012 0:13:09 Feedback on a swash/rogue build

Hey everyone!

So at the table I rolled up some better than average stats (for me anyway) and decided to take the time putting this together. I have looked over the threads on other swash/rogues and whip melee fighters and used some good ideas posted. What I am looking for I guess is a critique; possible benefits and fails of the build. He will be coming in as a level three character in a 3.5 forgotten realms campaign. The feats taken are added in the build below.

Starting Stats:
Str 15, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 14, Cha 13
Human (Dalelands)

1- rogue- able learner, Blooded
2-rogue-
3-Swashbuckler-Two Weapon Fighting
4-Rogue
5-Swashbuckler
6-Swashbuckler -Combat expertise
7-Swashbuckler
8-Swashbuckler
9-Swashbuckler -Daring outlaw

For skills: the concept is to use able learner to keep hide, move silently, tumble, and UMD maxed out and just skill monkey the rest of the others, I plan to play him like a jack of all trades bard assassin.

For Feats:
able learner for skills
Blooded- +2 int, +2 spot, can't be shaken (it is an area feat in forgotten realms you can take only at lv 1.
Two-Weapon-Fighting -standard TWF for this build but use the whip as battlefield control in the off hand. (Trip the caster, disarm the charging warrior, pull friendlies into safe squares, etc...).
Combat Expertise -set up for improved trip, or disarm
Daring Outlaw- at level 9

I am debating a few levels of fighter after daring outlaw to get the extra feats for the combat expertise tree, or the exotic weapon prof for whip.

Open to suggestions to make it better, there is limits on source books because of what another player has brought in (Netherise shadow half negative energy dragon drow yata yata yata breath weapon turns things into wights at level one, and his current character that had 27 HP at level one as a human... Legitly). So no Tome of battle, maybe some UA but with DM approval, all the completes seem ok, and any forgotten realms seems fine too, any PRC needs approval.
#2
draco1119
Oct 26, 2012 1:13:22 With Daring Outlaw, you really only want a PrC that increases SA and has full BAB. Nightsong Enforcer (CAdv) and Invisible Blade (CW or CAdv) are the only ones I know of that do both. You might want to consider using dual kusari-gama, if you take Exotic Weapon Proficiency. You'll find it in the DMG in the section on Japanese weapons.
#3
frost.fire
Oct 26, 2012 1:37:57 i agree with draco on the invisible blade but i think you might be setting up your tripping infrastructure too late in the build, if you could move it earlier it would be great but soon your hitting the level where tripping becomes very difficult without pooring in a large amount of benefits into it.
#4
bub_the_zombie
Oct 26, 2012 1:59:09 Thanks I will look into those PcRs. I know a standard whip is not as superior to the Japanese weapon it is more a fun thing, will check it out though. You mention "benefits" for trip in later levels, what would those be? I agree about it coming in too late, thinking of an early level dip fighter for the bonus feat to get the ball rolling. Really do not want to loose BAB. Also debating ditching the "Blooded" feat, it is nice and helped some with the poor will save but rather get the whip going.
Any thoughts?
Any general suggestions for the rewrite?
#5
frost.fire
Oct 26, 2012 2:39:16 I meant feats I was thinking of adding something but couldn't figure it all out and typoed benefit instead of feats, sorry
#6
Maat_Mons
Oct 26, 2012 3:29:30
I'll toss some ideas out. They go in kind of a different direction, so feel free to ignore them.

One option is to use the variant of rogue from Unearthed Arcana that gets bonus feats instead of sneak attack.

There's an alternative class feature for bard called bardic knack in Player's Handbook II that lets you use half your bard level (rounded up) in place of your ranks in a skill. It doesn't give you the ability to make checks untrained, but there's a feat called jack of all trades in Complete Adventurer that does.

It's possible to get the bardic knowledge class feature from rogue levels if you can use Magic of Incarnum. You have to use rilkan as your race and you give up trap sense. You might be able to convince your DM to let you have bardic knack instead of bardic knowledge.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bub_the_zombie Oct 26, 2012 0:13:09	Feedback on a swash/rogue build Hey everyone! So at the table I rolled up some better than average stats (for me anyway) and decided to take the time putting this together. I have looked over the threads on other swash/rogues and whip melee fighters and used some good ideas posted. What I am looking for I guess is a critique; possible benefits and fails of the build. He will be coming in as a level three character in a 3.5 forgotten realms campaign. The feats taken are added in the build below. Starting Stats: Str 15, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 14, Cha 13 Human (Dalelands) 1- rogue- able learner, Blooded 2-rogue- 3-Swashbuckler-Two Weapon Fighting 4-Rogue 5-Swashbuckler 6-Swashbuckler -Combat expertise 7-Swashbuckler 8-Swashbuckler 9-Swashbuckler -Daring outlaw For skills: the concept is to use able learner to keep hide, move silently, tumble, and UMD maxed out and just skill monkey the rest of the others, I plan to play him like a jack of all trades bard assassin. For Feats: able learner for skills Blooded- +2 int, +2 spot, can't be shaken (it is an area feat in forgotten realms you can take only at lv 1. Two-Weapon-Fighting -standard TWF for this build but use the whip as battlefield control in the off hand. (Trip the caster, disarm the charging warrior, pull friendlies into safe squares, etc...). Combat Expertise -set up for improved trip, or disarm Daring Outlaw- at level 9 I am debating a few levels of fighter after daring outlaw to get the extra feats for the combat expertise tree, or the exotic weapon prof for whip. Open to suggestions to make it better, there is limits on source books because of what another player has brought in (Netherise shadow half negative energy dragon drow yata yata yata breath weapon turns things into wights at level one, and his current character that had 27 HP at level one as a human... Legitly). So no Tome of battle, maybe some UA but with DM approval, all the completes seem ok, and any forgotten realms seems fine too, any PRC needs approval.
#2 draco1119 Oct 26, 2012 1:13:22	With Daring Outlaw, you really only want a PrC that increases SA and has full BAB. Nightsong Enforcer (CAdv) and Invisible Blade (CW or CAdv) are the only ones I know of that do both. You might want to consider using dual kusari-gama, if you take Exotic Weapon Proficiency. You'll find it in the DMG in the section on Japanese weapons.
#3 frost.fire Oct 26, 2012 1:37:57	i agree with draco on the invisible blade but i think you might be setting up your tripping infrastructure too late in the build, if you could move it earlier it would be great but soon your hitting the level where tripping becomes very difficult without pooring in a large amount of benefits into it.
#4 bub_the_zombie Oct 26, 2012 1:59:09	Thanks I will look into those PcRs. I know a standard whip is not as superior to the Japanese weapon it is more a fun thing, will check it out though. You mention "benefits" for trip in later levels, what would those be? I agree about it coming in too late, thinking of an early level dip fighter for the bonus feat to get the ball rolling. Really do not want to loose BAB. Also debating ditching the "Blooded" feat, it is nice and helped some with the poor will save but rather get the whip going. Any thoughts? Any general suggestions for the rewrite?
#5 frost.fire Oct 26, 2012 2:39:16	I meant feats I was thinking of adding something but couldn't figure it all out and typoed benefit instead of feats, sorry
#6 Maat_Mons Oct 26, 2012 3:29:30	I'll toss some ideas out. They go in kind of a different direction, so feel free to ignore them. One option is to use the variant of rogue from Unearthed Arcana that gets bonus feats instead of sneak attack. There's an alternative class feature for bard called bardic knack in Player's Handbook II that lets you use half your bard level (rounded up) in place of your ranks in a skill. It doesn't give you the ability to make checks untrained, but there's a feat called jack of all trades in Complete Adventurer that does. It's possible to get the bardic knowledge class feature from rogue levels if you can use Magic of Incarnum. You have to use rilkan as your race and you give up trap sense. You might be able to convince your DM to let you have bardic knack instead of bardic knowledge.