My character is finishing out level 6 (Cleric 4/Monk 2), and is (by far) the least effective member of the party. Any suggestions for near-term improvement? Character concept is directed towards Sacred Fist.
Human Cleric 4/Monk 2
Str: 16
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 18
Cha: 12
HP: 49, AC: 15 (19 w/Mage armor, which is usually up)
Feats: Combat Casting, Knowledge Devotion, Touch of Healing, Improved Natural Attack, (Imp. Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes)
Domains: Magic, Spell
Equipment: Pearl of Power (level 1), Cloak of Resistance +1, Wand of CLW, Wand of Enlarge Person, Rod of Metamagic (Lesser Extend), ~2k gold.
Rest of the party:
Half-Orc Barbarian/Fighter (Lvl 7; 23 Str, w/a +1 Longaxe - 80+ HP, obscene damage output)
Druid (Lvl 7, Dire Weasel companion & usual menagerie of friends)
Barbarian/Rogue (Lvl 7, dual-wielding bastard swords w/3d6 sneak attack damage)
Ranger/Scout/Initiate of the Bow (Lvl 7, with the Ranger alternate class feature of no companion & things he shoots count as Flanked; 3 shots/round with a +d6 flaming greatbow means d10+d8+d6 damage/shot)
Here're my problems:
--Trying to get buffs cast, in encounters that are moving too fast for me to spend multiple rounds self-buffing.
--I am the "healer," such as there is one. Partially obviated, as I made all the non-casters buy Healing Belts, and potion use is common. I still have a top-level spell slot locked up by a Conjuration(Healing) spell to fuel Healing Touch (so I'll only have 1 usable level 3 non-domain spell/day), and at least one Close Wounds is pretty mandatory.
--The DM is fairly stingy with the loots (expected wealth @ level 6: 13k; actual wealth: ~7.5k).
--The DM gives bonus XP for killing blows, meaning I fall further behind every session (about 500-700 XP). (He also offered bonus XP for healing spells cast in combat, but at a much lower progression than kill bonus, and I had to choose at character creation time which version of bonus I wanted.)
Suggestions? I'm about to hit level 7, meaning Sacred Fist 1 (and access to level 3 Cleric spells). My level 9 feat, assuming I live that long, will be Superior Unarmed Strike (bumping me to 2d8 damage Unarmed), but it'd be nice to be a little more effective before then.
What items should I be hunting, given that I will likely only see about 4k gold/level for the next couple levels? Spell suggestions? (The Rod of Metamagic Extend was purchased initially to boost Mage Armor Duration to 8 hours/casting, so that I could afford to keep it active all the adventuring day; the third charge/day will probably go to Crown of Might, for 10 hours of +2 strength.)
It doesn't help that encounter balance is suffering - the monsters have to be a threat to the more powerful characters, meaning they hit my Monk like a ton of bricks, meaning I either can't afford to stand toe-to-toe with them (bad, for a character who is banned from using weapons), or I have to waste actions self-healing, which is a losing proposition.
Help?
-luminous armor (lvl 2 spell) from book of exalted deeds. +5 armor AC, -4 on melee attacks from enemies (so yes, effectively +9) and 1h/lvl. Prereq is that your alignment is good, but if so, you can even cast it spontaneous. (All good clerics can cast sanctified spells spontaneously). It can keep you alive much longer hopefully.
-spiritual weapon, deals steady (though not very high) amount of damage for several rounds, without making yourself a target
Feat suggestions/suggestions regarding feats:
-sacred vow/vow of poverty. Especially if loot is expected to be less then it should be according to the DMG. (again, requirement "good")
- retraining (option from PHB2): it allows a character to trade a feat formerly taken into something else (it can help you to get more effective sooner, if allowed).
- get rid of touch of healing in favour of something that does damage (domain devotion feat of some kind)
General suggestion:
- as it is now, this game is working against you. Having to invest quite a lot of your recourses (spells, feat) into healing is already quite a sacrifice
- XP bonusses based on killing blows works against your character concept, definitely at the lower levels, which sux cause that's exactly where you will stay without gaining too much XP ; healing in combat is considered in general as a pretty bad tactic so that's hardly a way to compensate, good you didn't go for that option.
- Since this style of play as you describe it now rewards heavy damage dealing characters and punishes healing or utility casters, I see three options:
1) retrain as much as possible to have your character viable for this kind of play. It means imho discarding the healer role, definitely in combat (but I'd do that anyway)
2) talk to your DM about how this style of play works out and explain why it isn't satisfactory (especially the XP bonus for killing blows)
3) make a new character.
good luck
3)
**SNIP**
Half-Orc Barbarian/Fighter (Lvl 7; 23 Str, w/a +1 Longaxe - 80+ HP, obscene damage output)Druid (Lvl 7, Dire Weasel companion & usual menagerie of friends)
Barbarian/Rogue (Lvl 7, dual-wielding bastard swords w/3d6 sneak attack damage)
Ranger/Scout/Initiate of the Bow (Lvl 7, with the Ranger alternate class feature of no companion & things he shoots count as Flanked; 3 shots/round with a +d6 flaming greatbow means d10+d8+d6 damage/shot)Here're my problems:
--The DM gives bonus XP for killing blows, meaning I fall further behind every session (about 500-700 XP). (He also offered bonus XP for healing spells cast in combat, but at a much lower progression than kill bonus, and I had to choose at character creation time which version of bonus IHelp?
**SNIP**
You seem to be the only character in the party who is not a heavy damage-dealer, and are thus being unfairly targetted by this whole "xp for killing" bonus your DM has decided upon. Once you are higher level and have access to spells such as Divine Power and Righteous Might you will be fine, but it looks like you will be falling farther and farther behind the party as they get the kills and you act as support.
If your DM considers a stunned target to be "helpless" then consider retraining your Touch of Healing and Knowledge Devotion into Improved Initiative + Death Blow (CAdv) which lets you Coup de Grace as a standard action. Since you are enlarged (from your wand yes?) in combat and have Combat Reflexes, when you get an AoO use that to stunning fist the enemy, then Coup them in your turn. It also means anytime an enemy is rendered helpless you can run over to them and Coup as a standard action (kill stealing ftw?).
Personally I agree with Waazraath that your best options are either to talk to your DM about how his house rule is effectively an xp penalty to your character and try to get it changed, or make a new character (any Hood build should be able to 1-shot just about any monster and you'd be swimming in xp).
p.s. luminous armour is seriously awesome ;)
If your DM considers a stunned target to be "helpless" then consider retraining your Touch of Healing and Knowledge Devotion into Improved Initiative + Death Blow (CAdv) which lets you Coup de Grace as a standard action. Since you are enlarged (from your wand yes?) in combat and have Combat Reflexes, when you get an AoO use that to stunning fist the enemy, then Coup them in your turn. It also means anytime an enemy is rendered helpless you can run over to them and Coup as a standard action (kill stealing ftw?).
Stunned does not equal helpless, but since his DM seems to be misinterpreting several other rules, it might not hurt to ask. If he said it works, I would be tempted to just (ab)use it and not correct him.
The DMs extra XP for the kill shot rule is of course ricockulous. If the cleric hits someone with a Hold Person and the BSF Coup De Grace's them, the BSF gets the 10% XP bonus? Your DM needs to be pimp-slapped.
I would seriously find the section in the DMG that says that characters that are behind in levels get extra XP, show it to him, and then rail on him till he enforces it. Either that, or make a new character that is an ubercharger as was suggested to you already.
Edit: Hmm... you know, Hold Person might not be a bad strategy if you fight a decent number of humanoids. If you buy a mount, you could hit them with Hold Person and your mount could make the Coup De Grace attack against them. Since this would still be during your turn, your teammates wouldn't be able to "kill steal" from you. You might need to teach the mount a special trick for it to know how to do this, but that shouldn't be unreasonable.
If your DM considers a stunned target to be "helpless" then consider retraining your Touch of Healing and Knowledge Devotion into Improved Initiative + Death Blow (CAdv) which lets you Coup de Grace as a standard action. Since you are enlarged (from your wand yes?) in combat and have Combat Reflexes, when you get an AoO use that to stunning fist the enemy, then Coup them in your turn. It also means anytime an enemy is rendered helpless you can run over to them and Coup as a standard action (kill stealing ftw?).
Everything else aside, I've never managed to actually Stun something with Stunning Fist. It's only a DC 17 Fort save, and most monsters are swimming in +Fort.
Skip the following part if you want to get to the advice ---------------------
Monk, as a class, is ridiculously underpowered in general - there are many MANY threads that all go about trying to maximize Monk effectiveness, but IN THE END they are weaker than just about every other melee class (and by just about I mean every other melee class, but I wanted to leave the option open for PhaedrusXY to correct me).
I understand why you wanted to go Sacred fist - you figured wisdom synergy, spells, good solid roleplay potential, but honestly, just not very powerful. Sacrificing caster level is a HUGE no no, and sacrificing Base attack is a HUGE no no. Sacred fist sacrifices both.
There is a solid reason why your allies are playing Barbarian power houses - Rage related feats / abilities, Pounce, High Base attack, Weapon Proficiencies, POWER ATTACK (LEAP ATTACK), the list will continue for days, but I'll stop there (Going 2 barb 4 fighter 10 frienzied berserker seems to be in the near future for at least one of your party members at the least).
Druid is, of course, powerful and when played correctly just a torrent of pwn either using spells or the broken polymorph (now alter self) rules.
As for your Ranger/Scout/Order of the bow initiate who sacrificed his animal companion for flanking arrows, he should read that just a little bit harder. As I recall, and I could be wrong (but not effin' likely), anyone you attack with arrows is considered flanked FOR YOUR ALLIES, not yourself. He shouldn't be capable of producing sneak attack every shot after the first due to the flanking bonus that he does not confer to himself. His damage with a flaming greatbow should be 1d10+1(enhancement)+1d6(fire) and if he gets lucky and wins the initiative +Xd6 sneak)
Advice starts here -------------------
Now, you want equipment ideas? Sell everything you have and do whatever you can to get your grubby little mitts onto a Monk's Belt if you are SERIOUSLY considering not using a manufactured weapon. 5 levels of unarmed strike, that's what a Monk's belt will get you. The most prominent way to buff monk damage is to increase the size of the dice you roll and the number of them (size matters). The best thing to do is get a wand of Mighty wallop / Greater Mighty Wallop (which as magic domain you can use) and go to town since it DOES stack with Enlarge person.
Alternatively, it doesn't say anywhere that Monks can't use weapons - unless you're vow of poverty (where you can STILL use any simple weapon). Right now as a Cleric you have access to all simple weapons and if you're war domain at least one martial weapon. If not then pickup a long spear (1d8 20x3) to swing with a 2h weapon to get str and a half (which is at least +4 damage per hit with your current str) and GET POWER ATTACK.
Alternatively, instead of trying to change to a Longspear (which is actually a damage powerhouse for simple weapons), pickup a Quarterstaff - the quintessencial Monk weapon. There are rules about wielding double weapons (like Quarterstaffs) as 2 handed weapons in the Player's Handbook - thus you have a 2h BLUNT weapon (Thinking Mighty wallop? Cuz I am) THAT IS FUNCTIONAL WITH FLURRY OF BLOWS & POWER ATTACK. Let's see just what that means at your level (With your stats):
Human Cleric 4/Monk 2
Str: 16
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 18
Cha: 12
BAB 4
Attack + 7 (Quarterstaff (Nonmagical)) 1d6+(str)4
Oh, we can do better than that! Enupchuck (Enlarge person):
Attack +7 (Quarterstaff (Nonmagical)) 1d8+(str)6
Mada mada (Japense, look it up) (Mighty wallop)
Attack +7 (Quarterstaff (Nonmagical)) 1d10+(str)6
Sounds like less? Power attack it.
Attack + 3 (Quarterstaff (Nonmagical)) 1d10+(str)6+8
Still too weak... if only you were a Cleri... Oh wait! SHAZAM (Divine Power*)
BAB 6
Attack + 12 (Quarterstaff (Nonmagical)) 1d10+(str)9
Attack + 6 (Quarterstaff (Nonmagical)) 1d10+(str)9
And power attack
Attack + 6 (Quarterstaff (Nonmagical)) 1d10+9+12
Attack + 0 (Quarterstaff (Nonmagical)) 1d10+9+12
If only there were more power... more... MONKEY GRIP
Attack + 4 (Quarterstaff (Large Nonmagical)) 2d8 + 9 + 12
Attack - 2 (Quarterstaff (Large Nonmagical)) 2d8 + 9 + 12
Hmm, hmm, now if only you could use a wand of haste... but you would need to be a wizard, or a cleric with the magi.... waiit a minute!
Haste / Divine Power:
BAB 6
Attack +11 2d8+9
Attack +5 2d8+9
Attack +11 2d8 +9
Aaand Flurry of blows:
Attacks: +9/+9/+9/+5 all 2d8+9
Against foes you can only hit on a nat 20 (which it sounds like you fight often):
Full pwr attack: +3/+3/+3/-2 all 2d8+9+12. (23 to 37 per hit)
Taking a break from numbers ---------------------
Knowledge devotion. Really? Sir, I love this feat, I truly do - for a free action at the beginning of combat it's one of the best, especially since it is a devotion that doesn't require divine energy to power. But honestly, with an int of +1 and the knowledge skills of a Monk and Cleric, this is a wasted feat (and yet a boon to DPS bards). Your character is obviously Lawful, regardless of good or neutral, and there is a much more appropriate feat along those lines - Law Devotion. Bonus to Attack or to AC (Capping at +7 at 15th level) that you can swap on your turn as a free action.
If your DM does not allow retraining and you are truly dead set to be a Sacred fist, then ignore fighting with weapons for the time being, but keep the idea of using the spells and the abilities I mentioned - as they work (not as well, but they work) with unarmed attacks as well. Power attack can be used with your fists, and consider getting feats that change what your stunning fist can do (convert it to Ki blasts, or to flaming fists) if you fight things that can easily sluff off your fort save DC.
In the vein of increasing your fist damage you could also get the feat improved natural attack, which produces the same results as superior unarmed strike, but you can get it a little sooner, I believe.
I recall a thread that indicated there was a text over table ruling for Sacred Fist, that text indicates SF provides full spellcasting progression.
True, Sacred Fist does have a high base attack, but the issue is that right this instant he gets 1 attack (2 with flurry of blows) when if he had full base attack he'd have 2. All of these things add up and put him just a smidge behind, and a bunch of smidges can become a chasm if you let it.
I don't know about Sacred Fist getting spellcasting progression though - if it did that would, in the end, make it potentially more powerful than Monk AND Cleric combined. That isn't to say that Monks don't need that kind of love, but Clerics don't need that kind of hate =D
Right now he's sacrificed caster level so he's farther away from Divine Power, and he's farther away from ... whatever monks... get... Sorry, I know Monks get stuff every level, but I don't remember what it is... movement speed... something...
I don't know about Sacred Fist getting spellcasting progression though - if it did that would, in the end, make it potentially more powerful than Monk AND Cleric combined.
No it doesn't. You have to lose caster levels to get in, and you can't use any weapons at all.
EDIT: Found the Link. 69.8.198.229/wotc_archive/index.php/t-67...
IIRC it used the Shape shift ability from PHB2.
In my experince a Sacred Fist is a late bloomer.
That aside, most of what you can do has already been mentioned. You picked a build that will result in stronger late-game play, but because of your DM, you're going to be punished all the way through mid-game. You may never catch up. I'd reroll... something glass cannon, or possibly a War Hulk dungeoncrasher.
And frankly, the way your party is set up (no support, no control, only you with buffs, and almost no healing - well, druid, but it doesn't sound like he/she is doing those things) and the enforced internal competition virtually ensure that at higher levels, if your party can't kill it in the first round, it will kill someone, and maybe TPK. (Of course, given how inexperienced your DM sounds, he'll probably actually pay attention when the monster manual says that the flying thing with Cloudkill as an at-will SLA should walk up and claw faces, so your party might be okay after all.)
Oh, and your archer doesn't receive flanking benefits himself.
Additionally, someone who has free time could figure a monk healing build out for him.