Feinting with an Umbrella? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Feinting with an Umbrella?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
felgoroth
Dec 04, 2009 10:36:46 Ok, so I'm in the process of building a character that does not trust anyone and has become very sneaky and deceitful/deceptive because of his inability to trust others. My main idea is to have him carry an Umbrella which functions as 3 (very cliché) weapons. 1st: is the handle pulls out and is a hidden short sword or rapier, 2nd: the tip of the umbrella is actually pointed and very sharp (have to ask my DM but, it will probably deal 1d3 or 1d4 piercing damage) and 3rd: when the handle of the umbrella is attached the character can press a button shooting the tip off (probably 10ft. range but, once again I'll have to ask). Along with his versatile Umbrella he'll be concealing quite a few daggers (yes the cliché dagger in his boot/shoe will be one).

I have one problem with my idea however. I would like to be able to feint in combat as a swift (or free) action so the character can open his umbrella, feint, then use his side slip ability (because I'll be taking Mountebank levels) to teleport behind the enemy and make a sneak attack. The problem I'm having is you can't use a short sword or rapier with the Invisible Blades Uncanny Feint and I don't really want this character to be dagger focused. My second idea was doing this as a Beguiler but, I'd have to take 6 levels of Beguiler and if I did this I wouldn't be gaining any sneak attack damage. Here is my layout of what I have so far any suggestions are appreciated.

Human Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 4/Mountebank 10 with feats looking something like this:

1: Combat Expertise
H: Improved Feint
B: Weapon Finesse
F: Deceitful
F: Quick Draw
3: Deadly Defense
6: Daring Outlaw
9: Point Blank Shot (I really don't need this at all it would just be interesting with the Umbrella tip)
12: open
15: open
18: open

EDIT: please don't suggest Swordsage. The reason I say this is because the Swordsage only gets 2d6 sneak attack, and it's teleportation ability doesn't become a swift action until it can get 7th level maneuvers.
#2
gorfnad_the_shiznit
Dec 05, 2009 1:28:12 Actually you could a level or two of Rogue with the Beguiler and then go into Unseen Seer to pick up more sneak attack and the spell Hunters Eye (PHBII) for even more sneak attack damage. Something like Rogue 1, 2, or 3 for Penetrating Strike ACF/ Beguiler 6/ Unseen Seer 1/ Beguiler 1 for advanced learning Shadow Conjuration/ Unseen Seer 9 would possibly work for a feinting build. You could even throw in a level of Mountebank for Int mod to Bluff or maybe just the build Beguiler 6/ Mountebank 2/ Unseen Seer 1/ Beguiler 1/ Unseen Seer 9 could work too.
#3
felgoroth
Dec 07, 2009 8:04:31 I'd thought about a Beguiler build but, I don't really want to do a whole lot of spells, I wanted to be more of a skill based kind of build. I did realize that I wouldn't need to feint as a swift/free action because a Mountebanks side slip ability is an immediate action. I'm also thinking about going Rogue 5/Mountebank 10/X with feats like this:

1: Combat Expertise
H: Improved Feint
F: Deceitful
F: Weapon Finesse
3: Quick Draw
6: Deadly Defense
9: open
12: open
15: open
18: open
#4
felgoroth
Dec 14, 2009 13:29:54 Hunter's Eye is a Ranger spell, how do I get it? Even if it were a Wizard/Sorcerer spell I couldn't get it through Advanced Learning because it's a Divination spell. Nevermind didn't read the Unseen Seers Advanced Learning.

I think I'm going with Rogue 4 (with the ACF from dungeonscape)/Beguiler 1/Unseen Seer 2/Invisible Blade 5/Unseen Seer 8 and then I'll just use a Dagger instead of a Short Sword. I'll take Hunter's Eye as my advanced learning spell from the Unseen Seer at 7th level. I'll normally have 9d6 sneak attack (well at 20th level) then when casting Hunter's Eye I'll have 15d6, on top of that if I take Martial Stance (which would also require taking Martial Study) I can have Assassin's Stance which would give me 2d6 more giving me +17d6 when I sneak attack.
#5
datenshi_no_kai
Dec 14, 2009 15:09:56 Nice concept.

Have you thought about going down the Swashbuckler path? Taking the Daring Outlaw feat wll stack your Rogue levels with your swashbuckler for your Sneak attack & Grace bonus. Or you could get SA some way like this.

example: Start out with something like this;

Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 2/Fighter 1 (trade feats for SA variant)/---
At Level 6 take daring outlaw feat & make sure you have the Assassin's Stance & you'll snag a SA of 6d6's then dip into w/e or Swashbuckler for a more melee/trickster feel. You could also take a few skill tricks & equip yourself with some concealed weapons & make your Rogue even more unpredictable.

Just some brainstorming, I hope this helps.
#6
felgoroth
Dec 14, 2009 15:33:11 I'd thought about something like that but, in the end I'm doing way more SA with the build I have plus I get some pretty good spells. One thing about the Swordsage build is that the Sneak attack from Assassins Stance only works while you're in that stance which may or may not allow for you to take Daring Outlaw (depending on your DM). I'm thinking about changing it to this: Rogue 4/Beguiler 2/Unseen Seer 2/Beguiler 4/Unseen Seer 8 I think I'm 1 level away from 9th level spells with this.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 felgoroth Dec 04, 2009 10:36:46	Ok, so I'm in the process of building a character that does not trust anyone and has become very sneaky and deceitful/deceptive because of his inability to trust others. My main idea is to have him carry an Umbrella which functions as 3 (very cliché) weapons. 1st: is the handle pulls out and is a hidden short sword or rapier, 2nd: the tip of the umbrella is actually pointed and very sharp (have to ask my DM but, it will probably deal 1d3 or 1d4 piercing damage) and 3rd: when the handle of the umbrella is attached the character can press a button shooting the tip off (probably 10ft. range but, once again I'll have to ask). Along with his versatile Umbrella he'll be concealing quite a few daggers (yes the cliché dagger in his boot/shoe will be one). I have one problem with my idea however. I would like to be able to feint in combat as a swift (or free) action so the character can open his umbrella, feint, then use his side slip ability (because I'll be taking Mountebank levels) to teleport behind the enemy and make a sneak attack. The problem I'm having is you can't use a short sword or rapier with the Invisible Blades Uncanny Feint and I don't really want this character to be dagger focused. My second idea was doing this as a Beguiler but, I'd have to take 6 levels of Beguiler and if I did this I wouldn't be gaining any sneak attack damage. Here is my layout of what I have so far any suggestions are appreciated. Human Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 4/Mountebank 10 with feats looking something like this: 1: Combat Expertise H: Improved Feint B: Weapon Finesse F: Deceitful F: Quick Draw 3: Deadly Defense 6: Daring Outlaw 9: Point Blank Shot (I really don't need this at all it would just be interesting with the Umbrella tip) 12: open 15: open 18: open EDIT: please don't suggest Swordsage. The reason I say this is because the Swordsage only gets 2d6 sneak attack, and it's teleportation ability doesn't become a swift action until it can get 7th level maneuvers.
#2 gorfnad_the_shiznit Dec 05, 2009 1:28:12	Actually you could a level or two of Rogue with the Beguiler and then go into Unseen Seer to pick up more sneak attack and the spell Hunters Eye (PHBII) for even more sneak attack damage. Something like Rogue 1, 2, or 3 for Penetrating Strike ACF/ Beguiler 6/ Unseen Seer 1/ Beguiler 1 for advanced learning Shadow Conjuration/ Unseen Seer 9 would possibly work for a feinting build. You could even throw in a level of Mountebank for Int mod to Bluff or maybe just the build Beguiler 6/ Mountebank 2/ Unseen Seer 1/ Beguiler 1/ Unseen Seer 9 could work too.
#3 felgoroth Dec 07, 2009 8:04:31	I'd thought about a Beguiler build but, I don't really want to do a whole lot of spells, I wanted to be more of a skill based kind of build. I did realize that I wouldn't need to feint as a swift/free action because a Mountebanks side slip ability is an immediate action. I'm also thinking about going Rogue 5/Mountebank 10/X with feats like this: 1: Combat Expertise H: Improved Feint F: Deceitful F: Weapon Finesse 3: Quick Draw 6: Deadly Defense 9: open 12: open 15: open 18: open
#4 felgoroth Dec 14, 2009 13:29:54	Hunter's Eye is a Ranger spell, how do I get it? Even if it were a Wizard/Sorcerer spell I couldn't get it through Advanced Learning because it's a Divination spell. Nevermind didn't read the Unseen Seers Advanced Learning. I think I'm going with Rogue 4 (with the ACF from dungeonscape)/Beguiler 1/Unseen Seer 2/Invisible Blade 5/Unseen Seer 8 and then I'll just use a Dagger instead of a Short Sword. I'll take Hunter's Eye as my advanced learning spell from the Unseen Seer at 7th level. I'll normally have 9d6 sneak attack (well at 20th level) then when casting Hunter's Eye I'll have 15d6, on top of that if I take Martial Stance (which would also require taking Martial Study) I can have Assassin's Stance which would give me 2d6 more giving me +17d6 when I sneak attack.
#5 datenshi_no_kai Dec 14, 2009 15:09:56	Nice concept. Have you thought about going down the Swashbuckler path? Taking the Daring Outlaw feat wll stack your Rogue levels with your swashbuckler for your Sneak attack & Grace bonus. Or you could get SA some way like this. example: Start out with something like this; Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 2/Fighter 1 (trade feats for SA variant)/--- At Level 6 take daring outlaw feat & make sure you have the Assassin's Stance & you'll snag a SA of 6d6's then dip into w/e or Swashbuckler for a more melee/trickster feel. You could also take a few skill tricks & equip yourself with some concealed weapons & make your Rogue even more unpredictable. Just some brainstorming, I hope this helps.
#6 felgoroth Dec 14, 2009 15:33:11	I'd thought about something like that but, in the end I'm doing way more SA with the build I have plus I get some pretty good spells. One thing about the Swordsage build is that the Sneak attack from Assassins Stance only works while you're in that stance which may or may not allow for you to take Daring Outlaw (depending on your DM). I'm thinking about changing it to this: Rogue 4/Beguiler 2/Unseen Seer 2/Beguiler 4/Unseen Seer 8 I think I'm 1 level away from 9th level spells with this.