| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1NekoazuFeb 05, 2010 12:36:35 | I was wondering if anyone happens to know what the rough maximum damage per round of the Warblade (Tome of Battle) and of the Fighter (PHB1) are at level 20 pure class. |
| #2SenevriFeb 05, 2010 14:55:03 | Well, a high-crit Warblade who confirms on a roll of 2, dual-wielding Kukris... Full TWF chain... Flanked opponent, since we're looking at a theoretical situation - 25% chance of a critical hit, per strike, - Time Stands Still + Raging Mongoose equals 24 strikes (Raging Mongoose was 1 R, so it should apply to both full attacks), so that's an average of 6 critical hits - Blood in the Water increases attack and damage by +1 per successful crit - Tactics of the Wolf adds +10 to all hits - Damage equal of 30 blows + 21 from Blood in the Water. - So, 30x 1d4+5(+5 weapon)+ 15x 10(str of 24) + 30x12 (int 34) +30x10 averages 75 + 150 + 150 + 360 + 300, or 1035. Of course, Crusaders can go truly infinite. (so, a 1d2 Crusader Omniscifier no longer needs allies) Of course, Avalanche of Blades gives theoretically infinite damage, especially with the luck feat which makes a nat 1 count as nat 20, and enough luck points. A Greater God always counts as rolling 20, right? .... I need to ask what Tshern thinks about that. Hm. Now this was in one round. In TWO rounds, we could use Avalanche of Blades. Also, I presumed that the character wasn't polymorphed into a Marilith, which would have given a greater STR, as well as 5 extra hits. Also, I didn't use Haste. |
| #3awaken_D_M_golemFeb 05, 2010 15:29:37 | DPR is more of a 4e concept, useful ~over there. But yes, Senevri has it. Ubercharger and UberERcharger were good a while back; who knows if they are find-able. Hulking Hurler got numbers into trillions really, and that idea can be Fighter-ized. Causing conditions works better, and the various Lock builds (arguments) deserve mention. |
| #4NekoazuFeb 05, 2010 15:51:25 | Hm... right... What about a single attack? |
| #5zaxterFeb 05, 2010 16:03:32 | Hm... right... What about a single attack? Warblades get a maneuver that's a single attack with a +100 bonus on the damage roll. I think we have our answer. Then again, there's the Ubercharger and UberERcharger builds mentioned above. I think they both went for a single powerful strike at the end of a charge, but I don't think either one was single-classed. Think of it this way: Fighters get feats rather than class features, and everyone gets some feats. Therefore, just about anything a Fighter can do, a Warblade can do, but not always vice-versa. A fighter might be able to do one or two more things than a Warblade feat-wise, or be able to pull them off earlier, but at 20th level, there's really no comparison. |
| #6SenevriFeb 05, 2010 16:12:56 | Same Character, scythe + lucky crit with Diamond Nightmare Blade equals 32d4+576 damage, or 8d4+144 per strike. Diamond nightmare Blade is slightly better than a 2h fighter full attacking without Haste, all else being equal. If you combine with full power attack + wraithstrike, you could get close to that 1000, too. A Slashing Flurry Master Fighter will hit about 5 times, dealing 50-100 on a hit, which with a keen falchion, equals about 600-700 damage per round. (not sure if this was sans power attack) Is there _any_ way to get 11 on a d20 to count as a critical hit? |
| #7snakeman830Feb 05, 2010 16:15:04 | Is there _any_ way to get 11 on a d20 to count as a critical hit? Improved Critical (Kurkri) + Disciple of Dispater 8. Threat range of 9-20. |
| #8SenevriFeb 05, 2010 17:07:43 | Is there _any_ way to get 11 on a d20 to count as a critical hit? If that works, then... Dolorous Blow + Blood in the Water. Oh, and Aura of Law and Avalanche of Blades. Might be tight. |
| #9snakeman830Feb 05, 2010 18:54:23 | There's no question it works: Disciple of Dispaer's Iron Hews ability specifically states it stacks with Improved Critical. This ends up with a quadrupled threat range at level 8 of the PrC if you have Improved Critical. |
| #10NekoazuFeb 06, 2010 5:38:09 | So are Warblades and Fighters more or less on par when it comes to possible damage output? There's no question it works: Disciple of Dispaer's Iron Hews ability specifically states it stacks with Improved Critical. This ends up with a quadrupled threat range at level 8 of the PrC if you have Improved Critical. Yes, but I was wondering about the numbers *without* multiclassing/prcs, even if fighters are almost always better off to multiclass/prc. |
| #11SenevriFeb 06, 2010 6:57:45 | Well. It's not the damage. Warblades have far superior battlefield utility. Blindsight, Scent, better mobility, reach when needed, ability to boost every single warrior in the field... also, multiple damage dealing options, whilst fighters are pretty much doing the charge/leap/multiple power attack thing. |
| #12snakeman830Feb 06, 2010 11:45:09 | Best you can get without multiclassing and PrC's is 15-20 threat range (keen/Improved Critical kurkri/scimitar/rapier). To get a bigger threat range, you need to get class features. |
| #13aelryinthFeb 07, 2010 0:11:29 | The Fighter tends to make the better archer, as archery is feat intensive. The Fighter makes a better Stand Still control combatant, as AoO stuff is feat intensive. The fighter tends to make a better high AC build, as that is feat intensive, and Warblades don't get heavy armor. The warblade has more utility; can do more damage with a standard action; has marvelously better defenses; can take the manuvers to act as a battlefield commander; has some severely powerful high level self-buffs which can just pour out the damage. A warblade is not weapon dependent for a great deal of his damage. He is more useful out of combat, and has expanded sensory options if he chooses to take them. THe one area a Fighter can be better in is consistently hitting, since a Fighter will usually take the Spec tree, and its optional for a Warblade. +4/+6 on every attack with a preferred weapon is a substantial advantage. A warblade can potentially take those feats, but it's very unlikely. ==Aelryinth |
| #14snakeman830Feb 07, 2010 15:06:58 | The Fighter tends to make the better archer, as archery is feat intensive. And, of course, is proficient with bows. Warblades aren't. The Fighter makes a better Stand Still control combatant, as AoO stuff is feat intensive. Than a Warblade, yes. Than a Crusader, no. Thicket of Blades is HUGE for lockdown. stuff Only thing I can disagree with is the more often hitting, since Diamond Mind has manuvers to make your foe flat-footed or make touch attacks. Other than that, all true. |
| #15waazraathFeb 07, 2010 16:45:04 | But the fighter can take ticket of blades as well, with 2 feats, and still have much more feats to spent then a crusader, right? |
| #16snakeman830Feb 07, 2010 21:40:32 | But the fighter can take ticket of blades as well, with 2 feats, and still have much more feats to spent then a crusader, right? True, but the Crusader can do it earlier (4 levels earlier) and better. Devoted Spirit is insane for lockdown and tanking, and there is just no way a Fighter can get everything that the Crusader can in that arena. Using 4 feats, I can make a Crusader get attack of opportunities whenever a threatened foe moves (which will be a Stand Still attack), doesn't move, or casts a spell (Mage Slayer, so no casting defensively) up to 1+Dex mod times each round. This isn't even including what the manuvers can do. Yes, it takes most of the Crusader's feats, but they can do it even better than the Fighter. I can pull off the above by level 9 with a non-human race (6 with Human), which is a level (or 4) earlier than the Fighter (of any race) can. That said, the thread's topic is Warblades and Fighters... |
| #17SenevriFeb 08, 2010 0:15:34 | Now, of course, in real game your best bet is combining Crusader with something else, as the class's progression hardly gives any features at higher levels. So, a Fighter 2-4-6 + rest Crusader is a superior choice, in fact |