Fighter build, Need some feedback

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

aquantus

Jul 05, 2011 8:43:21
Human Fighter

1    Fighter            Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain, Power Attack, Weapon Focus: Spiked Chain
2    Fighter            Combat Expertise
3    Fighter            Improved Trip
4    Fighter            Weapon Specialisation: Spiked Chain       
5    Fighter           
6    Fighter            Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper
7    EWM               Weapon Trick Flurry of Strikes
8    Fighter                   
9    Fighter            Melee Weapon Mastery: Piercing, Combat Reflexes
10  EWM               Weapon Trick Exotic Reach           
11  Fighter           
12  Fighter            Improved Disarm, Leap Attack
13  Fighter
14  Fighter            Hold The Line
15  Fighter           
16  Fighter            Defensive Sweep
17  Fighter
18  Fighter            Deft Oppertunist
19  Fighter           
20  Fighter            Expert Tactician

This gives you some nice options:
Bull Rush
Domino Rush + Improved Trip
Heedless Charge+Power Attack+Leap Attack
Improved Trip
Improved Disarm
Lots of AOO's
Get a speed enchant on the spike chain and you have 6 attacks in full round attack.

I would like to get some feedback on this build please.

Regards,

Aqua
#2

Krusk

Jul 05, 2011 10:08:48

forgot two feats, one at 15 and one at 18. I recomend weapon supremacy and overwhelming assault. You have to shuffel some feat orders to get WS.


Don't take improved disarm, its not really worth it. Many foes don't use weapons, or are so big you won't be able to do it.


I'd only do the first EWM, and instead take a level of lion totem barbaria. Fullattack on a charge is great with shock trooper/leap attacking.

#3

Nezkrul

Jul 05, 2011 10:49:23
"Overpowering Attack" not overwhelming assault, it is a replacement feat in the alternate class options for fighter in the PHB2 at Fig 16.

Improved Disarm is worth it if you face off against lots of weapon/shield/staff/wand using opponents in your campaign.  You can also disarm things like potions, scrolls, dorje's, basially anything someone holds in their hand.

Full Attack on a charge is awesome, and definitely worth it; however he will end up with multiclass XP penalty.  And it is debateable weather or not you get your leap attack bonus on every attack you make during the charge instead of just the first one.

Aelrynth's lockdown build is superior to this one if you do take Overpowering Attack at 16th.  If you take OPA you should build the entire class around that feature to make the most of it.  Feats like Robilar's Gambit and/or Karmic Strike make you get even more AoO.  If you want a crazy amount of reach as a human with the spiked chain, look into taking Aberration Blood and Inhuman Reach feats (lords of madness).  Also consider getting Thicket of Blades stance as soon as possible (10th level), takes 2 feats but makes your reach even more deadly against mobile opponents.  And why no Standstill?  it is sooooo  good.  Combine Standstill with Hold the Line and Overpowering Attack and post 16th level you'll never ever get charged unless the charger has the same or more reach than you.
#4

aquantus

Jul 05, 2011 10:50:14
Ah, thanks for the tip..

Now I was wondering though..

EWM Also has Uncanny Blow:

-> If he has the Power Attack feat, he treats the weapon as two-handed for purposes of determining his bonus on damage rolls. <-

Leap Attack: You can combine a jump with a charge against an opponent. If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you can double the extra damage dealt by your use of the Power Attack feat. If you use this tactic with a two-handed weapon, you instead triple the extra damage from Power Attack.

Lets say I take one level of Totem Barbarian to get Pounce, Uncanny blow from EWM, Shock Trooper and Leap Attack and then go for dual wielding bastards sword at level 20 both a +5 speed weapon.

Do I then qualify for Leap attack 3 time bonus on power attack because of Uncanny Blow?


thats nets me 9 attacks on a full attack action, Meaning I can have 9 attack with a +120 damage?


Asuming you take -20 to get +40 and then Triple that because of Leap Attack?


 

#5

aelryinth

Jul 05, 2011 20:17:36
That's pretty much how leap attack and Power Attack work, yep.

That's how Frenzied Berserkers One hit entire parties. Supreme Power Attack for +240 dmg per attack
on a Leap Attack, Valorous Weapon for x2 on charge, Enlarge, reach weapon. 20'r attack, Supreme Cleave, one shots PC's better then an AoE spell with min 300+ dmg (Strength, etc). And then he gets Pounce if you happen to have a 30 Con dwarf and actually need a second attack.

==========

It wouldn't be +120 per attack. It'd be +80 dmg, although if Valorous and Pouncing, yeah, you'd butcher em. Uberchargers define Rocket Tag.

Leap Attack adds +100% to a Power Attack, but after the doubling, not before. i.e. -20 = +40. So, two handed -20 leap attacking is +40 +40, if you aren't doubling dmg.  If you are, it is +40 PA to dmg, x2 to fixed mods, and then Leap Attack at the end adds another +40...you end up at +120.

==Aelryinth
#6

Krusk

Jul 06, 2011 11:28:07
Full Attack on a charge is awesome, and definitely worth it; however he will end up with multiclass XP penalty.  And it is debateable weather or not you get your leap attack bonus on every attack you make during the charge instead of just the first one.


  1. no one plays with those

  2. He is human, and so no he won't.  

  3. Not paticulalry debatable, the rules are pretty clear. The intent/less "broken" answer is more muddy. 

  4. Overwhelming Assault is what I meant. It is a feat in PHB 2, on page 73. Gives you essentialy a 4e fighters mark, and if you have a guy who likes to flank, he will thank you for this feat. 

#7

aquantus

Jul 07, 2011 17:18:10
aha..... well thanks for the feedback, gave me some idea's ^^

I'll be doing some more research and number crunching
#8

Tempest_Stormwind

Jul 07, 2011 17:51:22
Krusk, long before Complete Cheeseball was published, I maintained a list of other ways for PCs to get Pounce. I kind of stopped updating it around the time Sandstorm came out, but nonetheless, there are ways to do it without Lion Totem:
The Grand Compilation of Full-Attack Charging PC Tricks
(by approximate level of availability; missing Sandstorm, Lost Empires of Faerun, Lords of Madness, Heroes of Battle, Champions of Ruin)

NO TEMPLATES ARE LISTED HERE.

Also, certain abilities only work in the first round of combat. Others work any time they are used.

1) Snow Tiger Berserker feat (berserker lodge feat (RP restriction), single light weapons only, Unapproachable East)
1) Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, human only, single light weapon only, Shining South)
2) Catfolk Pounce feat (Racial feat: Catfolk, Races of the Wild. Available at character level 1, but listed at level 2 because of Catfolk's +1 LA)
4) Psionic Lion's Charge (2nd level psywar power, augments to add damage to each attack, Expanded Psionic's Handbook)
5) Lion's Charge (3rd level druid / 4th level ranger spell, most recent version Miniatures Handbook)
5) Wild Shape (Fleshraker, Monster Manual III)
6) Lion's Pounce Wild Feat (Complete Divine)
7) Polymorph spell (many forms grant Pounce or similar abilities)
7) Metamorphosis power (as Polymorph, but might require Supernatural Transformation)
8) Wild Shape (Tiger) (If Core-only.)
8) Weretouched II: Tiger (Weretouched Master prestige class ability, Shifter only and only while shifting, Eberron CS)
10) Pouncing Ambush (5th level Reachrunner prestige class ability, Shifter only and only while shifting, against flat-footed opponent only, Races of Eberron)
11) Lion's Pounce (4th level Sigh Rager prestige class ability, Oriental Adventures)
11) Lion's Pounce (5th level Lion of Talisid prestige class ability, Book of Exalted Deeds)
13) Drift 4: Pounce like a leopard (7th level Geomancer drift, Complete Divine)
17) Shapechange spell (many forms grant Pounce or an extra move action, or something sicker (Chronotryn (FF), Choker).)
17) Greater Metamorphosis power (As Shapechange, but may require Metamorphic Transfer feat)
21) Dire Charge epic feat (Widely accepted as at least slightly underpowered, but works regardless of your equipment or magic availability. Draconomicon)

Variable level: Claws of the Leopard (spiked gauntlets, Complete Adventurer, priced at 38,305. Only works with the claws themselves).

Note that the Great Granddaddy of Wild Shape, the Mulhorandi Divine Minion, may be able to pull off some of these far earlier than other characters.

With sufficient cheatery twinks, anything is possible.

Runner-ups (those with similar abilities that do not exactly count as charging):
Full Mounted Attack (Cavalier and Halfling Outrider, CW; Kishi Charger, OA, possibly others)
Dervish Dance (Dervish, CW)
Hustle (Psychic Warrior / Egoist power, XPH)
Wild Plains Offensive (Wild Plains Outrider, CV)
Shadow Pounce (Teflammar Shadowlord, UE)
Lion Tribe Warrior (Regional feat, two light weapons only, Shining South)
Two-Weapon Spring Attack (Tempest, CV)
Dimension Spring Attack (Elocator, XPH)
Black Magic Oil: Malign Fury (Warrior of Darkness, BoVD)


My favorite method is an item that manifests Psionic Lion's Charge, but that can get expensive.

(And yes, it's Complete Cheeseball. One level of Lion Totem Barbarian gives you an epic feat directly related to combat. (There are other examples of this - goliaths have a racial ability that's better than Legendary Leaper - but none are combat related.))
#9

Krusk

Jul 08, 2011 5:57:59

I didn't think lion totem was the only way. But when you have one super easy way, in a commonly accepted book, why would you bother with the more complicated methods?


List is super hands, but in the end most martial builds benefit from a dip in barbarian. Rage, is handy for everyone but gish's. Gish's can take an alternative class feature and get notrage and pounce.