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Fighter help

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
MickeyMacAttack
May 14, 2011 0:38:59 So I need some suggestions with a fighter build, I was planning on doing a two-handed weapon fighter, the premise being to dish out damage while still being able to soak it up relatively well (not as much as a sword and board but whatever).

The stats I have to work with are:

17

15

12

11

9

8

The books I have available to me are:

Core rulebooks (phb 1&2, DMG, MM1)

"Complete" rulebooks (Complete Warrior, Complete Champion, etc.)

I was thinking going either dwarf or half orc, possibly going into the Kensai PrC with a level of EWM but I don't think I can manage that with my stats.

Suggestions?
#2
Cheiron
May 14, 2011 13:08:15 I would suggest going half-orc, as teh bonus to str is always a good thing when you are a fighter.

Is this going to be a good or evil aligned game?

if its evil, you can go eye of grummsh later on, it has some pretty good abilities.
#3
MickeyMacAttack
May 14, 2011 13:14:49 The campaign is good aligned.
#4
aelryinth
May 14, 2011 13:17:53 no book of 9 swords?

===Aelryinth
#5
MickeyMacAttack
May 14, 2011 13:56:21 No as stated in my original post only core books and the "Complete" series of books.
#6
Cheiron
May 14, 2011 14:04:29 Your basic attacks are going to revolve around using power attack. if your DM allows it, ask for the feat Martial study, then take the the maneuver Emerald razor. it allows you to make an attack as a touch attack. this combined with improved/greater power attack (can't rmeber what exactly it is called) will allow you to ramp up damage pretty easily.

grouped with an Dwarven urgosh fighter who used this ploy, it is pretty nasty at times.

One thing you are going to want to do is have some sort of battle field control as well. so remember to keep that in mind as well  . here is an example

a 6th level two-handed fighter -we'll give him 19 Strength, assuming you pick half orc. can do a Shock Trooper (Complete warrior) heedless charge, combined with Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer), to attack at +12 and deal 2d6+24 (assuming 2 handed sword) damage, which will most likely kill one target, followed by Cleave attempts at +12 dealing the same amount of damage, you just took out 2 (more if you have great cleave) opponents and   I know there is afeat somewhere then allows you an initmidate check when you down an opponent (you get puses if you down more) SO you take out 2 and make the rest of them shaken. which we all know is pure win!
#7
MickeyMacAttack
May 14, 2011 14:12:55
Your basic attacks are going to revolve around using power attack. if your DM allows it, ask for the feat Martial study, then take the the maneuver Emerald razor. it allows you to make an attack as a touch attack. this combined with improved/greater power attack (can't rmeber what exactly it is called) will allow you to ramp up damage pretty easily.

Unfortunately I cant use anything from ToB, DM has already made it pretty clear we have to stick to the above books, he actually didnt even want us using the sub races in the DMG just to keep things simple.

I'm not worried so much about feats since as a fighter I will have more then I know what to do with, my problem is I dont just want to do a straight fighter. But I am limited in what I can do because of multiclassing penalties and a lot of the PrCs in those books straight up suck for a fighter save for a few.

I want to do orc but with these stats I dont think I would be able to do much of anything aside from moving up and hitting. Hence why I came to the boards to see if anyone had any suggestions.

#8
Cheiron
May 14, 2011 15:11:32 If all you do is look at the basic fighter, then yes all a fighter ever does is hit somebody.

I see you totally skipped over the example combat I gave. You have to remmber that you can bullrush, overrun, disarm, trip. and all kinds of other acts.

than just walking up and hitting something, that is actually a pretty terrible thing to do strategy wise for anybody.

Being the fighter is all about battle field control. if you just walk up and smack somebody, you are doing it wrong. You should be intercetping routes of incomming bads against your squishies, disarming guys with scary weaponbs. tripping fools, and all sorts of other nasty things.

also, I have ever understood why people have this need to get inot a prestige class, but staying pure fighter does not gimp you in the least.

I think your views on what a fighers is and is capable of are highly skewed. in just one combat duplicate the encounter I posted as an example, your going to down 1 possibly 2 opponets and get an intimidate check (with a +4) to cause all other oppnets to be shaken, if you do what a normal fighter should you intimidate should be at or near max, giving you a practical certainty of cuasing that status condition.

If you don't want to do a straight fighter, like you said, toss in some rogue levels then you can spend the first couple rounds of combat sneaking in to take out theri squishies with a well placed sneak attack, and if you get caught before hand, well as part fighter you can probably still go toe to toe.
#9
Krusk
May 14, 2011 15:21:28 PHB 2? Beg for it. Its actually got some feats that make higher level fighters interesting.

If not this is really the only solid build for a melee fighter 20. Take a spike chain, combat reflexes, and improved trip. Lock down anyone who comes near you by tripping them (getting a free attack). Then when they stand, make another trip attack as your AoO.

Don't take a half-orc, they sort of suck. I'd take human, or possibly dwarf. Really most races aren't as good as humans.

I'm sure Aelrlyth will be by at some point to link you to his lockdown fighter in his sig. Its pretty solid.
#10
MickeyMacAttack
May 14, 2011 17:16:36 By no means do I think there is anything mechanically wrong with a fighter, I just dont like playing a straight class of ANYTHING. Its like going to an ice cream shop and getting nothing but vanilla, nothing wrong with the flavor its all good, but why not mix it up since you have 32 other flavors to go with?

And sorry yes the PH2, I guess I figured that was a core book but realized its not. At this point I may just do dwarf that way I may have a chance of pulling off a kensai with these stats.
#11
TelinArtho
May 14, 2011 20:32:28 Due to my connection with the Core Coliseum, I tend to view things in only a "core" point of view. I don't have any of the complete books on hand - so that's why I don't present any of those options.

In my experience, I have found that fighters that make use of both the power attack and combat expertise trees make for interesting characters. Being able to be moderately successful at any combination of disarm, trip, sunder, bull rush, etc. If you did want to multi-class it a little - you could pick dwarf or human, put the 15 in INT, and the 12 in CON, take Combat Expertise and Improved Trip at 1st, Improved Disarm at 2nd - dip 1 or 3 levels into Rogue to pick up some sneak attack (not need to worry about multi-class penalties since Fighter is still the favored class) and open yourself up to taking Improved Feint to help your sneak attack in some situations.

I'm not a big fan of using spiked chain where reach weapon + armor spikes will be an effective option and, as an aside, improve your grappling damage (another combat option for the "attack-only" fighter). Combat reflexes is nice too - if you have the time for it.

You could go a different route and go two-weapon fighter - but then you have a MAD problem and the scores you have aren't great for it. Again - going with dwarf and the dwarven urgrosh - I think you are best in that option. Unfortunately, most of my two-weapon fighters also make use of trip in order to make their many attacks more effective.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 MickeyMacAttack May 14, 2011 0:38:59	So I need some suggestions with a fighter build, I was planning on doing a two-handed weapon fighter, the premise being to dish out damage while still being able to soak it up relatively well (not as much as a sword and board but whatever). The stats I have to work with are: 17 15 12 11 9 8 The books I have available to me are: Core rulebooks (phb 1&2, DMG, MM1) "Complete" rulebooks (Complete Warrior, Complete Champion, etc.) I was thinking going either dwarf or half orc, possibly going into the Kensai PrC with a level of EWM but I don't think I can manage that with my stats. Suggestions?
#2 Cheiron May 14, 2011 13:08:15	I would suggest going half-orc, as teh bonus to str is always a good thing when you are a fighter. Is this going to be a good or evil aligned game? if its evil, you can go eye of grummsh later on, it has some pretty good abilities.
#3 MickeyMacAttack May 14, 2011 13:14:49	The campaign is good aligned.
#4 aelryinth May 14, 2011 13:17:53	no book of 9 swords? ===Aelryinth
#5 MickeyMacAttack May 14, 2011 13:56:21	No as stated in my original post only core books and the "Complete" series of books.
#6 Cheiron May 14, 2011 14:04:29	Your basic attacks are going to revolve around using power attack. if your DM allows it, ask for the feat Martial study, then take the the maneuver Emerald razor. it allows you to make an attack as a touch attack. this combined with improved/greater power attack (can't rmeber what exactly it is called) will allow you to ramp up damage pretty easily. grouped with an Dwarven urgosh fighter who used this ploy, it is pretty nasty at times. One thing you are going to want to do is have some sort of battle field control as well. so remember to keep that in mind as well . here is an example a 6th level two-handed fighter -we'll give him 19 Strength, assuming you pick half orc. can do a Shock Trooper (Complete warrior) heedless charge, combined with Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer), to attack at +12 and deal 2d6+24 (assuming 2 handed sword) damage, which will most likely kill one target, followed by Cleave attempts at +12 dealing the same amount of damage, you just took out 2 (more if you have great cleave) opponents and I know there is afeat somewhere then allows you an initmidate check when you down an opponent (you get puses if you down more) SO you take out 2 and make the rest of them shaken. which we all know is pure win!
#7 MickeyMacAttack May 14, 2011 14:12:55	Your basic attacks are going to revolve around using power attack. if your DM allows it, ask for the feat Martial study, then take the the maneuver Emerald razor. it allows you to make an attack as a touch attack. this combined with improved/greater power attack (can't rmeber what exactly it is called) will allow you to ramp up damage pretty easily. Unfortunately I cant use anything from ToB, DM has already made it pretty clear we have to stick to the above books, he actually didnt even want us using the sub races in the DMG just to keep things simple. I'm not worried so much about feats since as a fighter I will have more then I know what to do with, my problem is I dont just want to do a straight fighter. But I am limited in what I can do because of multiclassing penalties and a lot of the PrCs in those books straight up suck for a fighter save for a few. I want to do orc but with these stats I dont think I would be able to do much of anything aside from moving up and hitting. Hence why I came to the boards to see if anyone had any suggestions.
#8 Cheiron May 14, 2011 15:11:32	If all you do is look at the basic fighter, then yes all a fighter ever does is hit somebody. I see you totally skipped over the example combat I gave. You have to remmber that you can bullrush, overrun, disarm, trip. and all kinds of other acts. than just walking up and hitting something, that is actually a pretty terrible thing to do strategy wise for anybody. Being the fighter is all about battle field control. if you just walk up and smack somebody, you are doing it wrong. You should be intercetping routes of incomming bads against your squishies, disarming guys with scary weaponbs. tripping fools, and all sorts of other nasty things. also, I have ever understood why people have this need to get inot a prestige class, but staying pure fighter does not gimp you in the least. I think your views on what a fighers is and is capable of are highly skewed. in just one combat duplicate the encounter I posted as an example, your going to down 1 possibly 2 opponets and get an intimidate check (with a +4) to cause all other oppnets to be shaken, if you do what a normal fighter should you intimidate should be at or near max, giving you a practical certainty of cuasing that status condition. If you don't want to do a straight fighter, like you said, toss in some rogue levels then you can spend the first couple rounds of combat sneaking in to take out theri squishies with a well placed sneak attack, and if you get caught before hand, well as part fighter you can probably still go toe to toe.
#9 Krusk May 14, 2011 15:21:28	PHB 2? Beg for it. Its actually got some feats that make higher level fighters interesting. If not this is really the only solid build for a melee fighter 20. Take a spike chain, combat reflexes, and improved trip. Lock down anyone who comes near you by tripping them (getting a free attack). Then when they stand, make another trip attack as your AoO. Don't take a half-orc, they sort of suck. I'd take human, or possibly dwarf. Really most races aren't as good as humans. I'm sure Aelrlyth will be by at some point to link you to his lockdown fighter in his sig. Its pretty solid.
#10 MickeyMacAttack May 14, 2011 17:16:36	By no means do I think there is anything mechanically wrong with a fighter, I just dont like playing a straight class of ANYTHING. Its like going to an ice cream shop and getting nothing but vanilla, nothing wrong with the flavor its all good, but why not mix it up since you have 32 other flavors to go with? And sorry yes the PH2, I guess I figured that was a core book but realized its not. At this point I may just do dwarf that way I may have a chance of pulling off a kensai with these stats.
#11 TelinArtho May 14, 2011 20:32:28	Due to my connection with the Core Coliseum, I tend to view things in only a "core" point of view. I don't have any of the complete books on hand - so that's why I don't present any of those options. In my experience, I have found that fighters that make use of both the power attack and combat expertise trees make for interesting characters. Being able to be moderately successful at any combination of disarm, trip, sunder, bull rush, etc. If you did want to multi-class it a little - you could pick dwarf or human, put the 15 in INT, and the 12 in CON, take Combat Expertise and Improved Trip at 1st, Improved Disarm at 2nd - dip 1 or 3 levels into Rogue to pick up some sneak attack (not need to worry about multi-class penalties since Fighter is still the favored class) and open yourself up to taking Improved Feint to help your sneak attack in some situations. I'm not a big fan of using spiked chain where reach weapon + armor spikes will be an effective option and, as an aside, improve your grappling damage (another combat option for the "attack-only" fighter). Combat reflexes is nice too - if you have the time for it. You could go a different route and go two-weapon fighter - but then you have a MAD problem and the scores you have aren't great for it. Again - going with dwarf and the dwarven urgrosh - I think you are best in that option. Unfortunately, most of my two-weapon fighters also make use of trip in order to make their many attacks more effective.