Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Hideous_Phidias Feb 23, 2010 22:37:09	I could use soem thoughts on these two characters.  I am not really trying to go for the total power game award winning builds, but looking for soemthing that is well built and fun to play.   I was hoping to keep it to the core booke like PHB and PHB2 but other odd ball things are ok too.  I know that many people feel the Tome of Battle classes give a better oriental feel to a character but I don't like the book. Human fighter(in the samurai style) Level 1)Feat: Twin Sword Style    Feat: Two Weapon Fighting    Bonus: Power Attack 2)Feat: Mounted Combat 3)Bonus:Combat Focus 4)Feat: Weapon Specialization 5) 6)Feat: Mounted Archery    Bonus: Combat Stability 7) 8)Bonus: Weapon Mastery 9)Feat: Combat Vigor 10)Bonus: Leadership Human Monk (Martial Monk) 1)Feat:Combat Expertice    Feat: Dodge    Bonus: Improved Trip    Improved Unarmed Strike 2)Bonus: Exotic Weapon (Hooked Sword) 3)Feat: Weapon Focus (Hooked Sword) 4) 5) 6)Feat:Flying Tiger (Style)    Bonus: Improved Disarm 7) 8) 9)Feat: Curling Wave Strike or Sweeping Trip 10)
#2 serenor Feb 24, 2010 9:25:50	Nice.. build but what are you going to use as weapons?? Long sword? Plus weapon mastery requires that you are a fighter lvl 12... I would suggest this... sjip TWF... Samurais were using both Katana and wakizashi only in dire situations go this way: 1st lvl: Weapon Focus Katana, power attack, Combat Expertise 2nd lvl: Dodge 3rd lvl: Quickdraw 4th lvl: Weapon Specialization Katana 6th lvl: Mobility, Elusive target 8th lvl: Combat Focus 9th lvl : Combat Vigor 10th lvl : Spring Attack   play 2handed and use Power attak at first for some solid strikes, then when you are at less than half your hp switch to combat expertise and 1 hit move away tactic.. that way your opponent doesn;t get to full attack you ;) also that way you can use Elusive target's 2nd maneuver and trip them for free... if it succeeds move only 15 feet away and on the next round move 15 feet in attack and move away tripping him again ;)
#3 serenor Feb 24, 2010 9:28:34	Also.. PHB 2 core??.... Complete warrior is far more core than PHB 2 :P ToB is an epic book, it actually allows mellee warriors to keep up in effectiveness with the casters in later lvls...
#4 Hideous_Phidias Feb 24, 2010 11:46:36	I was planning to use the katana as the main weapon.   As for your build ideas I like it, but it is to concentrated on defence for me.   Both the dodge and combat expertise trees eat up to many of the feats for me.  I was wanted to be a little defencive but was going to with items over  feats for that role.  On that note I would love to have spring attack but never got why it was built off of combat expertise.  I like you suggestion of Elusive target feat.  It is one I had over looked may have to thing about a rebuild  to include it. As for the Quickdraw feat I dont see the point one 300gp item does the job, why waste a feat slot on that. As for two weapon fighting it, I agree samurai very rarely fought that way but it is nice to have it in there if one needs it.  And if you an item like gloves of the balanced hand them even better. As for Weapon Mastery I do beleive you just need a BAB +8, weapon focus and Weapon Specialization. On the topic of the Book of the nine Swords, why...... the fighter is flawed but not in the ways of combat.   In combat a fighter can hold his own in a fight even compared to a wizard.  You just have to have a good build and play smart.  The real problem with the fighter is the same as with so many of the classes, the skills.  They just suck.   Show me a town guard, aka a fighter, with out high ranks in sense motives or spot and I will show you a to town that will so be burn to the ground.
#5 bruceleeroy Feb 24, 2010 14:00:42	On the topic of the Book of the nine Swords, why...... the fighter is flawed but not in the ways of combat.   In combat a fighter can hold his own in a fight even compared to a wizard.  You just have to have a good build and play smart.  The real problem with the fighter is the same as with so many of the classes, the skills.  They just suck.  hahahaahahahaha, no. The real problem with the fighter is that they get no class abilities. Extra feats aren't class abilities. They're just disguised that way to fool people. Hold their own in a fight against a wizard? Maybe if it's a wizard who doesn't know how to use his spells. At any spell level they can cast, they can forced the fighter to make a save vs. lose. Every round. Against whichever save they determine, with their hopefully high intellect, the fighter is most vulnerable against (probably will). Fighter can never hope to hold their own against a wizard, unless the optimization level is very low. The best they can hope for is luck. (yea yea, lockdown builds, mage slayer, grappler, etc. No, you still lose. Unless you get lucky.)
#6 Hideous_Phidias Feb 24, 2010 14:22:40	Yes, some of what you are saying about the fighter has some truth behind it.  I agree that they should have some class abilities.  I still say that the Tome of Battle is a very poor answer to any power level difference between melee and caster classes.  The book is poorly written and unbalance to compared to the older class.   But that does not matter, becasue this thread is not about the ToB.  SO no more on the subject. If you have any ideas or suggestions on the builds I would love to hear them but not if it has to do with the ToB.
#7 serenor Feb 25, 2010 1:23:42	Well Spring Attack is from the Dodge feat path ;) Whirlwind attack needs both Spring Attack and Combat expertise (and it does have a point in my opinion...) You are right for Melee weapon panstery needing bab 8...   Also No!! Fighter doesn't need luck to beat a wizard... he just needs skill and some good planning.... the only drawback.... My groups Ultimate Magus deals in 1 round 450 LINGERING aoe dmg... my fighter will just deal a total of 180 if all his 3 full power attack hits actually land... also with PHB2 BROKEN (!!!!!!!!!) endurance path your will saves go Heavenly high AND you never lose a fort save... seriously... ToB is not broken.. it's just easier to make a broken combo out of it... wanna taste my groups Ultimate Magus?? you will realise how Complete Mage coupled with OHB2 turn a fire damaging mage the ultimate opponent for a RED DRAGON!!
#8 serenor Feb 25, 2010 1:30:30	Also.. I meant PHB2  :P and.... A samurai that can not Quickdraw?? nah.... Battojutsu/Iaijutsu duels are the base of your form ;) still if you want to skip a feat to place Melee Weapon Mastery skip Comp Expertise... later you will realize dodge bonuses are better that deflection (and quite cooler when you think about it :P)