Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 darthsillias May 16, 2008 11:13:04	I'm trying to make a fighter/rogue for an upcoming game. The rules we're using armor bonus is halved and provides DR instead if that changes much of your suggestions. I haven't played in a good while and I wanted to make a damage dealer with some defensive elements. Any help would be greatly appreciated. The character will start out level 4-5.
#2 dwarvensparten May 16, 2008 11:16:46	Well,you could use the Thug variant from UA. Grants you some rogueish skills for your 1st lvl bonus feat,and then you could use the Fighter variant that loses their bonus feats to gain sneak attack dice=to a rogue. Basically,it turns a fighter into a combat rogue,less skills,full BAB. Not the best,but not bad either. But if not I reccomend Rogue 1/Fighter 2/Rogue X
#3 zorgling25 May 16, 2008 11:20:35	Allowed Books? If you have access to Complete Warrior and Complete Scoundrel, Rogue/Swashbuckler is accepted as being better than Rogue/Fighter, because the Daring Outlaw feat lets you stack Rogue and Swashbuckler levels for Sneak Attack damage. Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 17 Rogue 4/Swashbuckler 16 are fairly simple ways to be relatively effective for a non-magic character. As far as feats go, TWF is generally the way to go with precision damage like Sneak Attack.
#4 darthsillias May 16, 2008 11:25:41	as far as I know all books are allowed but there is no magic in the campaign as of yet. The world is mundane for the time being. Which book is UA, I'm not familiar with the Thug variants and all that. I do like the swashbuckler idea though.
#5 dwarvensparten May 16, 2008 11:29:16	as far as I know all books are allowed but there is no magic in the campaign as of yet. The world is mundane for the time being. Which book is UA, I'm not familiar with the Thug variants and all that. I do like the swashbuckler idea though. UA=Unearthed Arcana
#6 darthsillias May 16, 2008 13:23:34	Ah ok, thanks everyone for your suggestions.
#7 nightwyrm May 16, 2008 13:32:21	If you're using houserules where armor gives DR, then a lot of small attacks (ie. twf tree) might not be very good even if you're getting extra damage from sneak attack. You might want to consider going the two-handed route with power attack feats.
#8 tshern May 16, 2008 13:52:20	Can you use Tome of Battle?
#9 darthsillias May 16, 2008 13:59:00	I'm not sure, what are you suggestions if so?
#10 zorgling25 May 16, 2008 14:01:49	I'm not sure, what are you suggestions if so? Swordsage dip is made of awesome for a Daring Outlaw, since it gives you a ton more ways to get sneak attacks off.
#11 gavinfoxx May 16, 2008 14:06:32	You should most definitely go for a Swashbuckler/Rogue type, if possible, using Complete Warrior for swashbuckler and Daring Outlaw from Complete Scoundrel. Heck, one of my favorite builds is Swash3/Fighter2/RogueX, focusing on things like daring outlaw, two weapon fighting, improved critical - kukri (this is ESPECIALLY useful in a low magic setting!), and telling blow.
#12 zorgling25 May 16, 2008 14:11:20	Heck, one of my favorite builds is Swash3/Fighter2/RogueX, focusing on things like daring outlaw, two weapon fighting, improved critical - kukri (this is ESPECIALLY useful in a low magic setting!), and telling blow. I've actually found Telling Blow to be quite a mediocre feat. Improved Crit is also not terribly amazing, since SA damage isn't multiplied. Your party wizard should have enough 1st level slots open to dump a Summon Monster I where you need flanking, so getting Sneak Attack shouldn't be a problem. This is especially true if you can use ToB, since Swordsage has stuff like Cloak of Deception, Distracting Ember, and Island of Blades to help set up Sneak Attack.
#13 gavinfoxx May 16, 2008 14:18:47	Uhm, is this a *low* magic setting or a *no* magic setting?
#14 darthsillias May 16, 2008 14:23:40	at this point there is no magic, zero.
#15 gavinfoxx May 16, 2008 14:35:33	Okay, so that means no wizard, cleric, summoning, etc. Uhm, you should maybe use Iron Heroes for this game...
#16 blargney_the_second May 16, 2008 15:09:47	+1 to the swordsage suggestions. Sneak attack is really just a pain in the ass. When you need it most are the times when it doesn't work.
#17 zorgling25 May 16, 2008 16:15:19	at this point there is no magic, zero. Missed that part. In that case, Telling Blow is a better option, because flanking is harder. Still not worth getting if you have ToB though.
#18 gavinfoxx May 16, 2008 16:36:55	With ToB, Swordsage is the most mystical of the fighters... so get a close look at things, some of the attacks are more mystical than others... but there are PLENTY that are completely martial, and actually, do a good job of emulating real world martial arts and stances...
#19 aelryinth May 16, 2008 18:43:26	The ideal PrC you want to shoot for is Nightsong Enforcer, although Dread Commando might work, too. Just to back the others up, in a campaign with DR, big weapons are favored over little ones, SA or no. +1 to the swordsage idea. Some nice stances for helping with flanking OR giving bonus Sneak Attack dmg. ===Aelryinth