Fire Genasi 'Gish' 3.5 (Help) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Fire Genasi 'Gish' 3.5 (Help)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
wanderertj
Sep 13, 2010 0:22:18
Hey guys, I'm somewhat-new to making some awesomely tweaked characters, and I was hoping some veterans of the community could give me some aid and see if I'm going correctly about what I'm trying to do. Please forgive my explanations, I’m sure you all know more than I do, I just thought I’d mention things just in case.

For the campaign I am in, I am starting at level 3, rolls for stats, and We are limited to if it's in a D&D book we can use it (I'm prefering to stay in WOTC books).
The race I chose was Fire Genasi (FR: Faerun), as it is a very fun race and I've played it before. The Fire Genasi is basically a human with fire in his veins. He gains the Racial Feat: Healing Flames, which causes you to heal from the energy of flames, however, as you are still human, the flames can still hurt you. You heal if you are next to fire or in fire/hit by fire, but if you are in fire/on fire/whatever, you must roll to see if you take damage from the fire.

Basically, I wanted to make a Gish class around this Feat(Healing Flames). The premise of this class, is that basically I plan to "Fireball Hug" people, damaging my opponent while healing myself. Fighters and the like cannot cast, while Casters probably shouldn’t be hugging a dragon or anywhere near the front line for that matter. And hopefully, with this feat, I will never die since I will be able to heal myself, So I need to find a good "Gish" class.

With that in mind, I would like to have no chance of arcane spell failure with Medium Armor, I am not interested in Heavy, and a Shield is only optional, not necessary. I have noticed many casting classes with Light Armor Proficiency, so I will probably just make it easy and take the feat Battle Caster to be able to use Medium armor at a Later level.

Here are some specs I already plan to have on my character:
The Campaign will be based in Faerun, and in Faerun each character has a region they originate from and it is based on Race-OR-Class. Due to the fact that I will be some form of Fighter-Mage hybrid, I can use a Fighter's origin, and start from the Region Tashalar. Tashalars get the Free Bonus Equipment Masterwork Hide armor and a Darkwood shield, and from that, I'm taking the masterwork hide armor as a Dragonhide Medium Armor w/+8AC/+4MaxDex bonus(for free), which allows me to use my 2700 starting gold elsewhere. I will also be taking a decreased rate of spellfailure since I can cast in light without failure.
Now, there is a Feat known as Bloodline of Fire which allows +4 on saving throws vs fire, as well as you can Cast Spells with the [Fire] Descriptor at +2 Caster Level. The only catch for me to get this, is I need 2 Ranks to Knowledge(Local:Calishan) which is no problem, and with that, I can access all the Regional Feats of Cashalan.

Also, from Tome of Magic, for the price of a Feat, I am taking Vestige Bond: Aym, which gives me: Halo of Fire(At will), Prof w/Medium Armor as well as I can move at Normal Speed in Medium Armor, Fire Resist of 10, Improved Sunder, and Double Dmg to Objects.

So currently at level 3, all my feat slots(Lvl 1 and 3 Bonus Feats) are used up (and I dont mind waiting a level or 2 to get Medium Armor w/o Spell failure, but I dont want to wait much longer than that.

To give you more idea of my Fire Genasi Class, Here are his stats(please note that these are not the official stats, but a combination of multiple Fire Genasi templates I have seen):
Racial Feats: Elemental Bloodline, Healing Flames.
Racial Abilities: Fire genasi have the following racial traits:
• +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma: Fire genasi have bright minds, but are impatient and quick to anger.
• Medium-size. As Medium creatures, fire genesi have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• Fire genasi base speed is 50 feet. This is a typo in the Faerun Campaign Settings that I am just going to go with (Think about this while in Medium Armor with the Vestige)
• +1 racial bonus on saving throws against fire spells and effects. This bonus increases by +1 for every five class levels the genasi attains.
• Darkvision up to 60 feet.
• +2 Craft (for those that involve the use of fire), +2 Intimidate
• Control Flame (Sp): Fire genasi can cause a nonmagical fire within 10 feet of them to diminish to the level of coals or flare to the brightness of daylight and double the normal radius of its illumination. This ability does not change the heat output or fuel consumption of the fire source, lasts 5 minutes, and may be done once per day. They use this ability as 5th-level sorcerers. of the next ability he uses during the encounter.
• Frost Vulnerability (Su) Fire genasi have vulnerability to frost.
My DM does not care about the +1 ECL, and is going to ignore it.

The Racial Feat Elemental Bloodline does the following: 25% Chance to turn a Sneak Attack or Critical hit into a Normal Attack as if wearing Light Fortitude Armor(Does not Stack), and +4 vs Poison, Sleep, Paralysis, and Stunning.

Healing Flames [General]
You can draw energy from open flames to heal yourself. (How this will work is that if I am next to a flame, I will heal. If I am in a fire/on fire/or hit by a fire spell, I will heal, but I must also roll to avoid taking damage from the fire)
Prerequisites: BASE WILL SAVE +3, fire genasi or tanarukk.
Fire Size        Example      Hit Points Healed
Fine             Tindertwig       1
Diminutive       Torch         1d3
Tiny         Small campfire      1d6
Small      Large campfire      2d6
Medium-size        Forge       3d6
Large       Bonfire          4d6
Huge     Burning shack or tree 5d6
Gargantuan    Burning tavern    6d6
Colossal Burning inn     7d6

Based on all of the above, In terms of avoiding taking fire damage, at lvl 5, I will have +2 vs Fire Spells and Effects, +4 on Saving Throws vs Fire, and a Fire Resist of 10

While this is subject to change depending on my class, my stats are: STR(17) DEX(14) CON(18) INT(18+2) WIS(14) CHA(16-2) by means of rolling them.

So with all that said, I would like to know what the best course of action would be so that I can do what I plan on. I looked at Duskblade, but it's spell progression is very slow, and as for the other Combat Casting classes, I didnt really see one that screamed out to me.

I'm currently trying to do a Battle Sorcerer, which seemed ok, but I noticed a thread that said being a battle sorcerer was a trap, so please try and help me with what I'm trying to do. Also, the -2 Charisma from the race doesnt help being a Sorcerer Class much. But I have considered looking into going along with a build like this: www.dandwiki.com/wiki/True_Battle_Sorcer... where I prestige to Abjurant Champion

Typically speaking, when I play with my friends, I'm always the guy that chooses Fighter to be not the tank, or hard hitter, but just that one guy that's there and does some Aggro so other people dont die. The reason I mention this is just to inform you all that I'm not usually a caster and dont know all the tips and tricks to being one

Also, I have gotten my DM to approve a homebrew weapon - The Kilij(Scimitar): 1Hand, dmg 1d8, crit 18-20x3, range 5ft, type slash, cost 400gp, however it is an Exotic Weapon, and I am unsure whether or not I should spent a feat in order to be proficient with this weapon(but think about adding keen to the weapon ;) ).
I will otherwise probably use the Great Scimitar: 1Hand Exotic (or) 2Hand Martial, dmg 1d8, crit 18-20x2, range 5ft, type slash, cost 200gp, special Half-and-Half(idk what this means).

Anyways, any help as to how I should choose my other feats and my class would be awesome and greatly appreciated
#2
lycanthrope0
Sep 13, 2010 6:27:36 first heres the handbook i wrote before anyone else posts it
brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...

now are you using level adjust buyoff rules or are you only going to have 2 class levels and 1 level adjust. or are you able to be at 3 class levels. as far as being able to cast in armor i know of a few different ways that you can do that. i wouldnt worry about that and the profficencys because you will be taking levels in a warrior type class.

now since you are getting medium armor pro you can take the armored mage alternate class feature from complete mage for fighters allowing you to cast in light armor then take the battle caster feat. it will be a limited pool of spells probably 3rd level max but its an option.
another option is to get your arcane spell failure to 0% ussally this is done by using mithril twilight armor and dipping into the spellsword prc. this would be best because you will be able to cast all your spells in your armor.
and most of the classes that can cast in light armor have set spell lists and dont make very good gishes. they can be done but then most of your feats will be used in gaining some spells added to your list and entering into prcs. i think wizard would be the stronger fit for you not only because its wizard but because of the +2 int.

ill post a build for you later

ron
#3
lormador
Sep 13, 2010 6:31:50 Wow, what a lenient DM. You get the 50' speed and no LA on the old-school Fire Genasi! I have only the following comments to offer.

1. Battle Sorcerer is not a trap. That is far from a community-wide opinion. At many levels of play, Battle Sorcerer is nice. Particularly your level of play, which will be from 3-6. You'll likely not get much farther than 6th. Will you get much farther than 12th? Be realistic and plan according to the actual game. Don't be down on Battle Sorcerer just because some punter thinks that it sucks around 14th level.

The reason to take Battle Sorcerer is so you can take Arcane Strike at 6th level. Just go ahead and try to find another gish that can take Arcane Strike at 6th. I'm not holding my breath.

And you don't actually need much Charisma to become a Battle Sorcerer. Just enough for a bonus spell in the right places. You're not going to focus on save or die spells.

2. Wraithstrike is your best 2nd level spell. Pick it first. You'll use it every battle. Note that while not so many DMs allow Spell Compendium, almost all allow the Completes. Wraithstrike originally appeared in Complete Adventurer, so you're good.

3. Power Attack is a golden feat for you. Read Wraithstrike again.

The point of a Gish in the low to middle levels is Wraithstrike + Power Attack + Arcane Strike. That will kill a lot of enemies.

If you want to pump your Fire spells, consider choosing one and enhancing it with Arcane Thesis. You can do a lot of beautiful things with Arcane Thesis. It's very fashionable these days, and the basis of a lot of lovely builds. Seems blasting is enjoying a period of popularity.

Think about a Spell Storing Weapon, with Combust. Even think about making one.

The reason not to play a Battle Sorcerer is because you can play a Barbarian/Wizard. As a Lion Totem Barbarian you get Pounce. As a Specialist Conjurer you can take Abrupt Jaunt. Around 9th level, these get much, much better than being a Battle Sorcerer. You get to Polymorph freely, Abrupt Jaunt to an open charge line, and go to town. Sure, that's cool at 9th, but with the game starting at 3rd it's not much of a kick knowing your build will start getting rad in 12 weeks.
#4
wanderertj
Sep 13, 2010 7:44:10
first heres the handbook i wrote before anyone else posts it
brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...

now are you using level adjust buyoff rules or are you only going to have 2 class levels and 1 level adjust. or are you able to be at 3 class levels. as far as being able to cast in armor i know of a few different ways that you can do that. i wouldnt worry about that and the profficencys because you will be taking levels in a warrior type class.

now since you are getting medium armor pro you can take the armored mage alternate class feature from complete mage for fighters allowing you to cast in light armor then take the battle caster feat. it will be a limited pool of spells probably 3rd level max but its an option.
another option is to get your arcane spell failure to 0% ussally this is done by using mithril twilight armor and dipping into the spellsword prc. this would be best because you will be able to cast all your spells in your armor.
and most of the classes that can cast in light armor have set spell lists and dont make very good gishes. they can be done but then most of your feats will be used in gaining some spells added to your list and entering into prcs. i think wizard would be the stronger fit for you not only because its wizard but because of the +2 int.

I will actually be at 3rd Class Level, he's completely ignoring the ECL

Please note, that while Healing Flames is only suppose to heal with the Control Flame ablility 1/day, my DM is allowing me to heal by any fire (except everlasting torches and the like, idk why, but i cant heal off of its magical flame)

And in terms of leniency, yeah, he's really lenient....but I have had a DM who allowed Keen to stack with Improved Crit ;)
#5
ObsidianConspiracy
Sep 13, 2010 10:43:38 Well if you were willing to wait, then wizard into Abjurant champion could be your thing.

But hten again, battle sorc abjurant champ I find more appealing

Also... with ToB classes, such as jade Phoenix mage, you could in theory use desert wind maneuvres to heal surely? As they are fire based
#6
wanderertj
Sep 13, 2010 12:36:02 After reading around here, not seeing any PEACH like my friend told me about and finding that much of the community left these forums, I have also posted this topic here: brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 wanderertj Sep 13, 2010 0:22:18	Hey guys, I'm somewhat-new to making some awesomely tweaked characters, and I was hoping some veterans of the community could give me some aid and see if I'm going correctly about what I'm trying to do. Please forgive my explanations, I’m sure you all know more than I do, I just thought I’d mention things just in case. For the campaign I am in, I am starting at level 3, rolls for stats, and We are limited to if it's in a D&D book we can use it (I'm prefering to stay in WOTC books). The race I chose was Fire Genasi (FR: Faerun), as it is a very fun race and I've played it before. The Fire Genasi is basically a human with fire in his veins. He gains the Racial Feat: Healing Flames, which causes you to heal from the energy of flames, however, as you are still human, the flames can still hurt you. You heal if you are next to fire or in fire/hit by fire, but if you are in fire/on fire/whatever, you must roll to see if you take damage from the fire. Basically, I wanted to make a Gish class around this Feat(Healing Flames). The premise of this class, is that basically I plan to "Fireball Hug" people, damaging my opponent while healing myself. Fighters and the like cannot cast, while Casters probably shouldn’t be hugging a dragon or anywhere near the front line for that matter. And hopefully, with this feat, I will never die since I will be able to heal myself, So I need to find a good "Gish" class. With that in mind, I would like to have no chance of arcane spell failure with Medium Armor, I am not interested in Heavy, and a Shield is only optional, not necessary. I have noticed many casting classes with Light Armor Proficiency, so I will probably just make it easy and take the feat Battle Caster to be able to use Medium armor at a Later level. Here are some specs I already plan to have on my character: The Campaign will be based in Faerun, and in Faerun each character has a region they originate from and it is based on Race-OR-Class. Due to the fact that I will be some form of Fighter-Mage hybrid, I can use a Fighter's origin, and start from the Region Tashalar. Tashalars get the Free Bonus Equipment Masterwork Hide armor and a Darkwood shield, and from that, I'm taking the masterwork hide armor as a Dragonhide Medium Armor w/+8AC/+4MaxDex bonus(for free), which allows me to use my 2700 starting gold elsewhere. I will also be taking a decreased rate of spellfailure since I can cast in light without failure. Now, there is a Feat known as Bloodline of Fire which allows +4 on saving throws vs fire, as well as you can Cast Spells with the [Fire] Descriptor at +2 Caster Level. The only catch for me to get this, is I need 2 Ranks to Knowledge(Local:Calishan) which is no problem, and with that, I can access all the Regional Feats of Cashalan. Also, from Tome of Magic, for the price of a Feat, I am taking Vestige Bond: Aym, which gives me: Halo of Fire(At will), Prof w/Medium Armor as well as I can move at Normal Speed in Medium Armor, Fire Resist of 10, Improved Sunder, and Double Dmg to Objects. So currently at level 3, all my feat slots(Lvl 1 and 3 Bonus Feats) are used up (and I dont mind waiting a level or 2 to get Medium Armor w/o Spell failure, but I dont want to wait much longer than that. To give you more idea of my Fire Genasi Class, Here are his stats(please note that these are not the official stats, but a combination of multiple Fire Genasi templates I have seen): Racial Feats: Elemental Bloodline, Healing Flames. Racial Abilities: Fire genasi have the following racial traits: • +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma: Fire genasi have bright minds, but are impatient and quick to anger. • Medium-size. As Medium creatures, fire genesi have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. • Fire genasi base speed is 50 feet. This is a typo in the Faerun Campaign Settings that I am just going to go with (Think about this while in Medium Armor with the Vestige) • +1 racial bonus on saving throws against fire spells and effects. This bonus increases by +1 for every five class levels the genasi attains. • Darkvision up to 60 feet. • +2 Craft (for those that involve the use of fire), +2 Intimidate • Control Flame (Sp): Fire genasi can cause a nonmagical fire within 10 feet of them to diminish to the level of coals or flare to the brightness of daylight and double the normal radius of its illumination. This ability does not change the heat output or fuel consumption of the fire source, lasts 5 minutes, and may be done once per day. They use this ability as 5th-level sorcerers. of the next ability he uses during the encounter. • Frost Vulnerability (Su) Fire genasi have vulnerability to frost. My DM does not care about the +1 ECL, and is going to ignore it. The Racial Feat Elemental Bloodline does the following: 25% Chance to turn a Sneak Attack or Critical hit into a Normal Attack as if wearing Light Fortitude Armor(Does not Stack), and +4 vs Poison, Sleep, Paralysis, and Stunning. Healing Flames [General] You can draw energy from open flames to heal yourself. (How this will work is that if I am next to a flame, I will heal. If I am in a fire/on fire/or hit by a fire spell, I will heal, but I must also roll to avoid taking damage from the fire) Prerequisites: BASE WILL SAVE +3, fire genasi or tanarukk. Fire Size Example Hit Points Healed Fine Tindertwig 1 Diminutive Torch 1d3 Tiny Small campfire 1d6 Small Large campfire 2d6 Medium-size Forge 3d6 Large Bonfire 4d6 Huge Burning shack or tree 5d6 Gargantuan Burning tavern 6d6 Colossal Burning inn 7d6 Based on all of the above, In terms of avoiding taking fire damage, at lvl 5, I will have +2 vs Fire Spells and Effects, +4 on Saving Throws vs Fire, and a Fire Resist of 10 While this is subject to change depending on my class, my stats are: STR(17) DEX(14) CON(18) INT(18+2) WIS(14) CHA(16-2) by means of rolling them. So with all that said, I would like to know what the best course of action would be so that I can do what I plan on. I looked at Duskblade, but it's spell progression is very slow, and as for the other Combat Casting classes, I didnt really see one that screamed out to me. I'm currently trying to do a Battle Sorcerer, which seemed ok, but I noticed a thread that said being a battle sorcerer was a trap, so please try and help me with what I'm trying to do. Also, the -2 Charisma from the race doesnt help being a Sorcerer Class much. But I have considered looking into going along with a build like this: www.dandwiki.com/wiki/True_Battle_Sorcer... where I prestige to Abjurant Champion Typically speaking, when I play with my friends, I'm always the guy that chooses Fighter to be not the tank, or hard hitter, but just that one guy that's there and does some Aggro so other people dont die. The reason I mention this is just to inform you all that I'm not usually a caster and dont know all the tips and tricks to being one Also, I have gotten my DM to approve a homebrew weapon - The Kilij(Scimitar): 1Hand, dmg 1d8, crit 18-20x3, range 5ft, type slash, cost 400gp, however it is an Exotic Weapon, and I am unsure whether or not I should spent a feat in order to be proficient with this weapon(but think about adding keen to the weapon ;) ). I will otherwise probably use the Great Scimitar: 1Hand Exotic (or) 2Hand Martial, dmg 1d8, crit 18-20x2, range 5ft, type slash, cost 200gp, special Half-and-Half(idk what this means). Anyways, any help as to how I should choose my other feats and my class would be awesome and greatly appreciated
#2 lycanthrope0 Sep 13, 2010 6:27:36	first heres the handbook i wrote before anyone else posts it brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p... now are you using level adjust buyoff rules or are you only going to have 2 class levels and 1 level adjust. or are you able to be at 3 class levels. as far as being able to cast in armor i know of a few different ways that you can do that. i wouldnt worry about that and the profficencys because you will be taking levels in a warrior type class. now since you are getting medium armor pro you can take the armored mage alternate class feature from complete mage for fighters allowing you to cast in light armor then take the battle caster feat. it will be a limited pool of spells probably 3rd level max but its an option. another option is to get your arcane spell failure to 0% ussally this is done by using mithril twilight armor and dipping into the spellsword prc. this would be best because you will be able to cast all your spells in your armor. and most of the classes that can cast in light armor have set spell lists and dont make very good gishes. they can be done but then most of your feats will be used in gaining some spells added to your list and entering into prcs. i think wizard would be the stronger fit for you not only because its wizard but because of the +2 int. ill post a build for you later ron
#3 lormador Sep 13, 2010 6:31:50	Wow, what a lenient DM. You get the 50' speed and no LA on the old-school Fire Genasi! I have only the following comments to offer. 1. Battle Sorcerer is not a trap. That is far from a community-wide opinion. At many levels of play, Battle Sorcerer is nice. Particularly your level of play, which will be from 3-6. You'll likely not get much farther than 6th. Will you get much farther than 12th? Be realistic and plan according to the actual game. Don't be down on Battle Sorcerer just because some punter thinks that it sucks around 14th level. The reason to take Battle Sorcerer is so you can take Arcane Strike at 6th level. Just go ahead and try to find another gish that can take Arcane Strike at 6th. I'm not holding my breath. And you don't actually need much Charisma to become a Battle Sorcerer. Just enough for a bonus spell in the right places. You're not going to focus on save or die spells. 2. Wraithstrike is your best 2nd level spell. Pick it first. You'll use it every battle. Note that while not so many DMs allow Spell Compendium, almost all allow the Completes. Wraithstrike originally appeared in Complete Adventurer, so you're good. 3. Power Attack is a golden feat for you. Read Wraithstrike again. The point of a Gish in the low to middle levels is Wraithstrike + Power Attack + Arcane Strike. That will kill a lot of enemies. If you want to pump your Fire spells, consider choosing one and enhancing it with Arcane Thesis. You can do a lot of beautiful things with Arcane Thesis. It's very fashionable these days, and the basis of a lot of lovely builds. Seems blasting is enjoying a period of popularity. Think about a Spell Storing Weapon, with Combust. Even think about making one. The reason not to play a Battle Sorcerer is because you can play a Barbarian/Wizard. As a Lion Totem Barbarian you get Pounce. As a Specialist Conjurer you can take Abrupt Jaunt. Around 9th level, these get much, much better than being a Battle Sorcerer. You get to Polymorph freely, Abrupt Jaunt to an open charge line, and go to town. Sure, that's cool at 9th, but with the game starting at 3rd it's not much of a kick knowing your build will start getting rad in 12 weeks.
#4 wanderertj Sep 13, 2010 7:44:10	first heres the handbook i wrote before anyone else posts it brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p... now are you using level adjust buyoff rules or are you only going to have 2 class levels and 1 level adjust. or are you able to be at 3 class levels. as far as being able to cast in armor i know of a few different ways that you can do that. i wouldnt worry about that and the profficencys because you will be taking levels in a warrior type class. now since you are getting medium armor pro you can take the armored mage alternate class feature from complete mage for fighters allowing you to cast in light armor then take the battle caster feat. it will be a limited pool of spells probably 3rd level max but its an option. another option is to get your arcane spell failure to 0% ussally this is done by using mithril twilight armor and dipping into the spellsword prc. this would be best because you will be able to cast all your spells in your armor. and most of the classes that can cast in light armor have set spell lists and dont make very good gishes. they can be done but then most of your feats will be used in gaining some spells added to your list and entering into prcs. i think wizard would be the stronger fit for you not only because its wizard but because of the +2 int. I will actually be at 3rd Class Level, he's completely ignoring the ECL Please note, that while Healing Flames is only suppose to heal with the Control Flame ablility 1/day, my DM is allowing me to heal by any fire (except everlasting torches and the like, idk why, but i cant heal off of its magical flame) And in terms of leniency, yeah, he's really lenient....but I have had a DM who allowed Keen to stack with Improved Crit ;)
#5 ObsidianConspiracy Sep 13, 2010 10:43:38	Well if you were willing to wait, then wizard into Abjurant champion could be your thing. But hten again, battle sorc abjurant champ I find more appealing Also... with ToB classes, such as jade Phoenix mage, you could in theory use desert wind maneuvres to heal surely? As they are fire based
#6 wanderertj Sep 13, 2010 12:36:02	After reading around here, not seeing any PEACH like my friend told me about and finding that much of the community left these forums, I have also posted this topic here: brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...