Firebat - Soldier - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Firebat - Soldier

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kshaver
May 13, 2008 11:21:38 This started off as a simple idea to make just a pure soldier/elite trooper with a fairly high damage threshold. Of course then I had to figure how it was going to do damage, and it ended up as an armored duel flamethrower wielding character.

Attributes: Human Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14 then fill in with extra points to flavor, my version is supposed to be tough so 16 con, and then 2 points left to spend.

Starting skills would look something like:
Endurance
Initiative
Perception
Mechanics
Treat Injury
Pilot

Levels:
1 Soldier – F: Simple Weapons, Pistols, Rifles, Light Armor, Medium Armor, Improved Damage Threshold, Exotic Weapon Proficiency Flamethrower – T: Armored Defense
2 Scout – F: Shake it Off – T: Evasion
3 Scout – F: Dual Weapon Mastery I, Point Blank Shot
4 Soldier – F: Weapon Focus Flamethrower
5 Soldier – T: Improved Armored Defense
6 Soldier – F: Tech Specialist, Martial Arts I
7 Soldier – T: Weapon Specialization Flamethrower
8 Soldier – F: Dual Weapon Mastery II
9 Elite Trooper – F: Open – T: Greater Weapon Focus Flamethrower

There is nothing crazy spectacular about it, but it met what I was trying to accomplish. At this point the character is more than competent with the duel flamethrowers, having pretty good attack and damage with them, it also has a pretty good reflex defense, and a great damage threshold:

10 Base
9 Level
4 Class
4 Attribute
5 Improved Damage Threshold
2 Stormtrooper Armor or Equivalent
1 Tech Specialist
1 Second Skin
=36

Gear is pretty simple: Two flamethrowers, some extra flamethrower ammo, a blaster carbine for longer ranged combat, a fire extinguisher (or two), maybe an axe for melee if you run out of flamethrower fuel, and a suit of sandtrooper armor painted fire engine red (or safety yellow). 12 strength is enough to get by on, but 14 will work better if you carry a lot of extra flamethrower fuel or other extraneous weighty gear.

The remaining levels should be a couple more soldier for and then a bunch of elite trooper. Soldier for some extra feats and devastating attack and then elite soldier for greater weapon specialization and greater devastating attack as well as racking up some DR to make the character even tougher.

Recomended feats include: Duel Weapon Mastery III, Charging Shot, Improved Defenses, Improved Damage Threshold (Again), and Skill Focus Mechanics.

Tech specialist was fairly hard to squeeze in, its a great feat for boosting the damage on the flamethrowers (I would normally say +1 attack, but on area weapons +2 damage is more effective since they still deal half on most misses) and its used for more fort defense on the armor as well as being usable for bonuses to many skills and for beefing up your comrades gear, but still it would be better to skip that if another player is going to have it. This would allow faster progression of the weapon feats, or more open feats to play around with, or to change the race, and it would allow a much lower int score not needing as many skills and having no need to have a high mechanics check (move those attribute points to charisma and make a hot Twilek ;) ).

Anything big I missed that would make this build better?
#2
delewobmesid
May 13, 2008 14:46:40 Tech Specialist is not a soldier bonus feat (reorder with point blank to resolve); Improved armor defense should be taken at 5th, not 10th (the bonus starts to matter by 6th); area attacks still have to hit reflex defense of 10 to damage (see errata), but damage bump is the correct call;

standard cheese would be a level of scoundrel for point blank and fool's luck plus an optional level of scout for evasion and shake it off after first (you don't want to be damaged by your own self started fire do you?).
#3
kshaver
May 13, 2008 15:17:28
Tech Specialist is not a soldier bonus feat (reorder with point blank to resolve);

Whoops, I know that, just rewrote it from memory and got that one out of order. More likely to get use our of point blank shot at 2nd anyways unless your GM is very generous with cash.

Improved armor defense should be taken at 5th, not 10th (the bonus starts to matter by 6th);

For maximum effectiveness while leveling yes. Fort save was a primary concern on the character so I was focusing on mixing in things like second skin, but your method would be effective to play through the levels with.

area attacks still have to hit reflex defense of 10 to damage (see errata), but damage bump is the correct call;

10 is too easy to hit after a few levels, so you just about automatically deal at least half damage, where as full damage is anywhere from a 2 to a 20 to hit, with 20 hitting regardless of how bad a shot you are. I know we're agreeing on this, but I can add some math to make it even sweeter.

Assuming you need a 20 to hit with +2 Damage you add an average of 1 damage every time you miss from a 2-19 and 2 damage on a 20 since that always hits. Thats a total of +20 damage over 20 attacks assuming you need a 20 to hit.

A +1 to hit on the otherhand only adds half your full damage on 1 out of 20 rolls, assuming you don't need a 20 to hit. The listed characters average damage at 11th is 18.5 per shot (3d6+5+2+1, no +2 from tech of course). This means in 20 shots you have deal an extra 9.25 damage, less than half the bonus netted from improving damage.

The only time the +1 to hit is better (with an area effect weapon) is when facing a high reflex opponent with evasion.

standard cheese would be a level of scoundrel for point blank and fool's luck plus an optional level of scout for evasion and shake it off after first (you don't want to be damaged by your own self started fire do you?).

Either choice would reduce base attack and hit point(s), but both are certanly valid bonuses. For more skills scout would be decent to take at 1st level. Assuming the character didn't go over light armor he wouldn't lose any feats, but some of the min BAB requirement choices would have to be moved around.
#4
darthnizzy_dup
May 13, 2008 15:47:21 Rapid shot wouldn't work with an area attack, is that for the carbine?
#5
kshaver
May 14, 2008 8:29:07 Some changes:

Squeezed scout in for evasion and shake it off, had to take 2 levels to not throw total feats out of whack. I wanted to squeeze scout in at 1st, but the elite trooper requirement of medium armor proficiency prevented it. I did forget to check, I assume endurance is a soldier skill? Otherwise that whole plan is a bit out of whack.

Devastating attack was removed to make room for scout. It is still usefull, but should be gained later.

Added a suggested skill list.

Moved Tech Specialist to 6th level. Now listed at a valid level, and is much more reasonable point to have the spare cash to use it. This later level also gives the character some time to see if another party member is going to take it, giving the character the chance to use the feat for something else.

Changed stormtrooper armor to sandtrooper armor, the obvious choice for someone in high temperature environments.

Removed references to heavy armor, the build has enough dex to not really need it and its too big of an investment in extra feats and talents.

Removed level 10 and 11. The build is pretty self explanatory by 9th, and I had made a mistake of putting Duel Weapon Mastery III at 11th and the character didn't have enough dex to take it until 12th. In this build BAB and Dex can both met at 12th.

Rapid shot wouldn't work with an area attack, is that for the carbine?

You are correct, removed. Charging shot is still decent for closing, but there don't seem to be much in the way of feats to improve damage from area weapons aside from duel weapon mastery I/II/III and double/triple attack. The character could combine both, but then he'd use the equivalent of one tank of fuel per turn...with two weapons he'd empty both in two turns of firing. Making 5 attacks a turn would also mean the character expends 4kg of fuel per turn, being prepared for a lengthy fight would mean going into the fight encumbered at those weights (and quite possibly ending a fight not encumbered).

Still it wouldn't hurt in the long run to spend a feat or two into being effective with something like a carbine or pistol, or two carbines/pistols considering the character has already invested heavily into duel weapon mastery. Either choice has a lot more range than a flamethrower, significantly better ammo capacity, and extremely low weight. I'm kind of also thinking taking the heavy weapons feat, which would make the character proficient in starship weapons as well as opening up some extra character scale weapons. Strength would definately have to start at 14 at that point though.
#6
Nifft
May 16, 2008 11:28:46 The usual attack optimization advice applies: Force Sensitive + Battlestrike (as many as you can get), possibly Powerful Charge + Charging Fire (if Charging Fire allows you to use a Flamethrower).

IMHO Force Sensitive + Battlestrike is better than Dual Weapon I/II/III.

Cheers, -- N

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kshaver May 13, 2008 11:21:38	This started off as a simple idea to make just a pure soldier/elite trooper with a fairly high damage threshold. Of course then I had to figure how it was going to do damage, and it ended up as an armored duel flamethrower wielding character. Attributes: Human Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14 then fill in with extra points to flavor, my version is supposed to be tough so 16 con, and then 2 points left to spend. Starting skills would look something like: Endurance Initiative Perception Mechanics Treat Injury Pilot Levels: 1 Soldier – F: Simple Weapons, Pistols, Rifles, Light Armor, Medium Armor, Improved Damage Threshold, Exotic Weapon Proficiency Flamethrower – T: Armored Defense 2 Scout – F: Shake it Off – T: Evasion 3 Scout – F: Dual Weapon Mastery I, Point Blank Shot 4 Soldier – F: Weapon Focus Flamethrower 5 Soldier – T: Improved Armored Defense 6 Soldier – F: Tech Specialist, Martial Arts I 7 Soldier – T: Weapon Specialization Flamethrower 8 Soldier – F: Dual Weapon Mastery II 9 Elite Trooper – F: Open – T: Greater Weapon Focus Flamethrower There is nothing crazy spectacular about it, but it met what I was trying to accomplish. At this point the character is more than competent with the duel flamethrowers, having pretty good attack and damage with them, it also has a pretty good reflex defense, and a great damage threshold: 10 Base 9 Level 4 Class 4 Attribute 5 Improved Damage Threshold 2 Stormtrooper Armor or Equivalent 1 Tech Specialist 1 Second Skin =36 Gear is pretty simple: Two flamethrowers, some extra flamethrower ammo, a blaster carbine for longer ranged combat, a fire extinguisher (or two), maybe an axe for melee if you run out of flamethrower fuel, and a suit of sandtrooper armor painted fire engine red (or safety yellow). 12 strength is enough to get by on, but 14 will work better if you carry a lot of extra flamethrower fuel or other extraneous weighty gear. The remaining levels should be a couple more soldier for and then a bunch of elite trooper. Soldier for some extra feats and devastating attack and then elite soldier for greater weapon specialization and greater devastating attack as well as racking up some DR to make the character even tougher. Recomended feats include: Duel Weapon Mastery III, Charging Shot, Improved Defenses, Improved Damage Threshold (Again), and Skill Focus Mechanics. Tech specialist was fairly hard to squeeze in, its a great feat for boosting the damage on the flamethrowers (I would normally say +1 attack, but on area weapons +2 damage is more effective since they still deal half on most misses) and its used for more fort defense on the armor as well as being usable for bonuses to many skills and for beefing up your comrades gear, but still it would be better to skip that if another player is going to have it. This would allow faster progression of the weapon feats, or more open feats to play around with, or to change the race, and it would allow a much lower int score not needing as many skills and having no need to have a high mechanics check (move those attribute points to charisma and make a hot Twilek ;) ). Anything big I missed that would make this build better?
#2 delewobmesid May 13, 2008 14:46:40	Tech Specialist is not a soldier bonus feat (reorder with point blank to resolve); Improved armor defense should be taken at 5th, not 10th (the bonus starts to matter by 6th); area attacks still have to hit reflex defense of 10 to damage (see errata), but damage bump is the correct call; standard cheese would be a level of scoundrel for point blank and fool's luck plus an optional level of scout for evasion and shake it off after first (you don't want to be damaged by your own self started fire do you?).
#3 kshaver May 13, 2008 15:17:28	Tech Specialist is not a soldier bonus feat (reorder with point blank to resolve); Whoops, I know that, just rewrote it from memory and got that one out of order. More likely to get use our of point blank shot at 2nd anyways unless your GM is very generous with cash. Improved armor defense should be taken at 5th, not 10th (the bonus starts to matter by 6th); For maximum effectiveness while leveling yes. Fort save was a primary concern on the character so I was focusing on mixing in things like second skin, but your method would be effective to play through the levels with. area attacks still have to hit reflex defense of 10 to damage (see errata), but damage bump is the correct call; 10 is too easy to hit after a few levels, so you just about automatically deal at least half damage, where as full damage is anywhere from a 2 to a 20 to hit, with 20 hitting regardless of how bad a shot you are. I know we're agreeing on this, but I can add some math to make it even sweeter. Assuming you need a 20 to hit with +2 Damage you add an average of 1 damage every time you miss from a 2-19 and 2 damage on a 20 since that always hits. Thats a total of +20 damage over 20 attacks assuming you need a 20 to hit. A +1 to hit on the otherhand only adds half your full damage on 1 out of 20 rolls, assuming you don't need a 20 to hit. The listed characters average damage at 11th is 18.5 per shot (3d6+5+2+1, no +2 from tech of course). This means in 20 shots you have deal an extra 9.25 damage, less than half the bonus netted from improving damage. The only time the +1 to hit is better (with an area effect weapon) is when facing a high reflex opponent with evasion. standard cheese would be a level of scoundrel for point blank and fool's luck plus an optional level of scout for evasion and shake it off after first (you don't want to be damaged by your own self started fire do you?). Either choice would reduce base attack and hit point(s), but both are certanly valid bonuses. For more skills scout would be decent to take at 1st level. Assuming the character didn't go over light armor he wouldn't lose any feats, but some of the min BAB requirement choices would have to be moved around.
#4 darthnizzy_dup May 13, 2008 15:47:21	Rapid shot wouldn't work with an area attack, is that for the carbine?
#5 kshaver May 14, 2008 8:29:07	Some changes: Squeezed scout in for evasion and shake it off, had to take 2 levels to not throw total feats out of whack. I wanted to squeeze scout in at 1st, but the elite trooper requirement of medium armor proficiency prevented it. I did forget to check, I assume endurance is a soldier skill? Otherwise that whole plan is a bit out of whack. Devastating attack was removed to make room for scout. It is still usefull, but should be gained later. Added a suggested skill list. Moved Tech Specialist to 6th level. Now listed at a valid level, and is much more reasonable point to have the spare cash to use it. This later level also gives the character some time to see if another party member is going to take it, giving the character the chance to use the feat for something else. Changed stormtrooper armor to sandtrooper armor, the obvious choice for someone in high temperature environments. Removed references to heavy armor, the build has enough dex to not really need it and its too big of an investment in extra feats and talents. Removed level 10 and 11. The build is pretty self explanatory by 9th, and I had made a mistake of putting Duel Weapon Mastery III at 11th and the character didn't have enough dex to take it until 12th. In this build BAB and Dex can both met at 12th. Rapid shot wouldn't work with an area attack, is that for the carbine? You are correct, removed. Charging shot is still decent for closing, but there don't seem to be much in the way of feats to improve damage from area weapons aside from duel weapon mastery I/II/III and double/triple attack. The character could combine both, but then he'd use the equivalent of one tank of fuel per turn...with two weapons he'd empty both in two turns of firing. Making 5 attacks a turn would also mean the character expends 4kg of fuel per turn, being prepared for a lengthy fight would mean going into the fight encumbered at those weights (and quite possibly ending a fight not encumbered). Still it wouldn't hurt in the long run to spend a feat or two into being effective with something like a carbine or pistol, or two carbines/pistols considering the character has already invested heavily into duel weapon mastery. Either choice has a lot more range than a flamethrower, significantly better ammo capacity, and extremely low weight. I'm kind of also thinking taking the heavy weapons feat, which would make the character proficient in starship weapons as well as opening up some extra character scale weapons. Strength would definately have to start at 14 at that point though.
#6 Nifft May 16, 2008 11:28:46	The usual attack optimization advice applies: Force Sensitive + Battlestrike (as many as you can get), possibly Powerful Charge + Charging Fire (if Charging Fire allows you to use a Flamethrower). IMHO Force Sensitive + Battlestrike is better than Dual Weapon I/II/III. Cheers, -- N