First ECL character... need help building a nightmare. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

First ECL character... need help building a nightmare.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jeice540
Jun 27, 2009 15:09:31 Alright, so up until now all i've played is mid-low level PC's (level 13 and under) but my DM is planning an ECL continuation of an old campaign. My concept for it is a true big'n'dumb PC, I want high high strength, some ranged potential, and some horrifying melee combat options. It's in Sigil so a LOT of things are on the table.

If I take a med race I'll have him permanently enlarged to make the WH and HH available. Is it worth enlarging a large PC to Huge?

Current idea is a very basic bbn20/warhulk10/hulking hurler3
With this I can take a +2LA creature if its worth it, or 2 other ranks in some other fitting class? (or +1 and 1...)

Ability bonuses will likely all go to strength.

I have 13 feats to choose.

I saw some cool things in the "throw him out the window and land on him" thread but don't know how to translate this to the epic levels.
#2
emy
Jun 27, 2009 17:25:13 ECL = Effective Character Level, not Epic Level

What's "bbn"?
#3
sofawall
Jun 27, 2009 18:22:34 BBN=Barbarian?

Also, your title is hella confusing. I saw First ECL Character, and I'm like, oh level 1 optimization, that's always fun!

Then I see you're level 35. Kinda threw me a bit.
#4
emy
Jun 27, 2009 18:48:02
BBN=Barbarian?

Oh, that would make sense. I kept thinking "Baboon? That can't be right."
#5
Grumman
Jun 27, 2009 18:52:08
Oh, that would make sense. I kept thinking "Baboon? That can't be right."

There's a difference?
#6
Senevri
Jun 27, 2009 19:37:38 Ape Totem?

Taking 2 LA, could as well be Large to start with. Centaur is decent, with 4 MH hit dice - full BAB, and 2 LA. Great speed, but no reach. Minotaurs have 4 LA but get reach.
...
I think Centaurs would be the better bang for the buck.
#7
jeice540
Jun 27, 2009 23:42:44 First off I'm sorry for the confusion, I took ECL to be Epic Character Level... my bad!
I worry about taking centaur in case the DM does something unpleasant (he's notorious for exploiting character weaknesses, and centaurs have issues with STAIRS and we're in Sigil...). In any other setting I'd dive at centaur with both feet, but for this scenario I think I need something that would be harder to hamstring.
Bleh, I completely agree with Sofawall. I'd really much rather a lvl 1 character with big dreams, this just smacks of effort...
#8
sofawall
Jun 28, 2009 0:08:40 Well, I'm going to start by saying some common words:

Mineral Warrior
Lolth-Touched
Half-Minotaur
#9
Grumman
Jun 28, 2009 4:52:30 If it was me, I'd go for something like a Maug Wu Jen gish. If you get the ability somehow to Persist Giantsize, you can be colossal with a +42 bonus to strength from race and size. Get the rollers graft and you can crush everything in a 30 foot by 60/90 foot rectangle every round for 16D6 damage. And as long as you're willing to limit yourself to skills, feats and PrCs that don't need INT, WIS or CHA based skills, you can still go War Hulk.
#10
wings_of_peace
Jun 28, 2009 5:50:50 Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Frenzied Berserker 10/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Master Thrower 5/Thri-Keen 2/Mineral Warrior 1/Whatever else seems cool. Maybe Fighter for the free feat.

Feats you want(Not including pre-reqs): POWER ATTACK, Rapid Shot (Extra attacks are good.), Shock Trooper, POWER ATTACK, Leap Attack, Improved Critical (Great Falchion), POWER ATTACK

Your Ideal Weapon: Valorous Kaorti Great Falchion of Force: Crit Range 15-20 X4

You Power Attack Damage: [2x(Power attack)+4x(Frenzied Berserker)+3x(Leap Attack)]X2(Valorous)=18X Power Attack Damage Per Throw(As touch against creatures smaller than you due to Weak Spot master thrower trick. Have the party wizard permanently shrink you for extra goodness.)

4 Attacks (BaB)
2 Attacks (Martial Weapon Flurry)
1 Attack (Haste. Get it by any means necessary.)
1 Atack (Rapid Shot feat)

Total Attacks per round: 8

Edit: Oh yeah and all that is with a minor range increment since you're throwing your weapon :D

Edit 2: Arrange those classes for optimal BaB progression since it quits growing the same way once you hit epic levels. With Thri-Keen your max is 18 which still means a maximum damage per hit of 324 (Assuming no crit and that you pump up power attack to the max. If you want more damage just get a bunch of skill bonus items to jump and take something with no LA.)
#11
emy
Jun 28, 2009 9:37:02
Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Monk 6

Problem spotted.

Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Chaos Monk 6?

Or be lawful and use that feat that makes you also count as chaotic to qualify for barbarian. [from Fiendish Codex I or II]
#12
risner
Jun 28, 2009 18:25:32
ECL continuation of an old campaign
Current idea is a very basic bbn20/warhulk10/hulking hurler3 LA+2

I take a med race I'll have him permanently enlarged to make the WH and HH available. Is it worth enlarging a large PC to Huge?

Centaur in case the DM does something unpleasant (he's notorious for exploiting character weaknesses, and centaurs have issues with STAIRS and we're in Sigil...)

You mean ECL 35, Epic Campaign.

How are your Enlarge Person-ing a Medium to Huge?
What is WH and HH?

3,000 gp Horseshoes give you flying.
#13
_v_
Jun 28, 2009 18:34:14
What is WH and HH?

WH = WarHulk
HH = Hulking Hurler
#14
wings_of_peace
Jun 29, 2009 2:49:50
Problem spotted.

Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Chaos Monk 6?

Or be lawful and use that feat that makes you also count as chaotic to qualify for barbarian. [from Fiendish Codex I or II]

Darnit you caught me. Dunno how I forgot that but yeah. That would definitely do the trick.
#15
jeice540
Jun 29, 2009 13:36:32 So... after a little looking I've stumbled on an idea that is just plain silly. I wouldn't have thought of it without a friend mentioning an item that made any creature medium sized when worn... with this option I thought...

Mountain Giant ECL25/War Hulk10

Enlarge person with permanency making the it Gargantuan...
Monkey grip making it able to wield Colossal weapons...

Problem is I haven't been able to find the item yet... only spell that looks like it could do it is the WuJen spell "Minute Form" but it has a Personal range, and is 8th level...
#16
risner
Jun 29, 2009 17:54:55
Mountain Giant ECL25/War Hulk10
Enlarge person with permanency making the it Gargantuan...

Giant != Humanoid
#17
widow
Jun 29, 2009 18:07:03
Well, I'm going to start by saying some common words:

Mineral Warrior
Lolth-Touched
Half-Minotaur

A great start, just need to add in the Anthropomorphic baleen whale from savage speices. It has 3 Racial HD (Full bab), no LA, +8 str plus other stat adds, and is large in size.

I would go:

Whale HD 3
Lion Totem Barb 1
Fighter 2
Frenzied Berserker 10
Ranger 1 (Favored Enemy)
Hulking Hurler 3
Warhulk 15

Feats
L1 Power Attack
L3 Cleave
F1 Destructive Rage
F2 Intimidating Rage
L6 Weapon Focus
L9 Point Blank Shot
L12 Leadership (Kaorti Fiend of Possession)
L15 Might Makes right
L18 Favored Enemy Power Attack
L21
L24
L27
L30
L33

THe ranger is not needed, but favored power attack is brutal. Get a kaorti with the fiend of possession PrC. Not only can he possess your weapon to give it bonuses, but he can craft you a reason weapon. Pick a nice weapon with a 18-20 crit range and use the resin to make it a 4x crit damage weapon.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a

It would be worth dropping one level of warhulk for Lolthe-Touched (or call yourself the Fury Whale going eberron). That will give you +6 str and con instead of just +2 str.
#18
jeice540
Jun 29, 2009 19:20:27
Giant != Humanoid

...aw

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jeice540 Jun 27, 2009 15:09:31	Alright, so up until now all i've played is mid-low level PC's (level 13 and under) but my DM is planning an ECL continuation of an old campaign. My concept for it is a true big'n'dumb PC, I want high high strength, some ranged potential, and some horrifying melee combat options. It's in Sigil so a LOT of things are on the table. If I take a med race I'll have him permanently enlarged to make the WH and HH available. Is it worth enlarging a large PC to Huge? Current idea is a very basic bbn20/warhulk10/hulking hurler3 With this I can take a +2LA creature if its worth it, or 2 other ranks in some other fitting class? (or +1 and 1...) Ability bonuses will likely all go to strength. I have 13 feats to choose. I saw some cool things in the "throw him out the window and land on him" thread but don't know how to translate this to the epic levels.
#2 emy Jun 27, 2009 17:25:13	ECL = Effective Character Level, not Epic Level What's "bbn"?
#3 sofawall Jun 27, 2009 18:22:34	BBN=Barbarian? Also, your title is hella confusing. I saw First ECL Character, and I'm like, oh level 1 optimization, that's always fun! Then I see you're level 35. Kinda threw me a bit.
#4 emy Jun 27, 2009 18:48:02	BBN=Barbarian? Oh, that would make sense. I kept thinking "Baboon? That can't be right."
#5 Grumman Jun 27, 2009 18:52:08	Oh, that would make sense. I kept thinking "Baboon? That can't be right." There's a difference?
#6 Senevri Jun 27, 2009 19:37:38	Ape Totem? Taking 2 LA, could as well be Large to start with. Centaur is decent, with 4 MH hit dice - full BAB, and 2 LA. Great speed, but no reach. Minotaurs have 4 LA but get reach. ... I think Centaurs would be the better bang for the buck.
#7 jeice540 Jun 27, 2009 23:42:44	First off I'm sorry for the confusion, I took ECL to be Epic Character Level... my bad! I worry about taking centaur in case the DM does something unpleasant (he's notorious for exploiting character weaknesses, and centaurs have issues with STAIRS and we're in Sigil...). In any other setting I'd dive at centaur with both feet, but for this scenario I think I need something that would be harder to hamstring. Bleh, I completely agree with Sofawall. I'd really much rather a lvl 1 character with big dreams, this just smacks of effort...
#8 sofawall Jun 28, 2009 0:08:40	Well, I'm going to start by saying some common words: Mineral Warrior Lolth-Touched Half-Minotaur
#9 Grumman Jun 28, 2009 4:52:30	If it was me, I'd go for something like a Maug Wu Jen gish. If you get the ability somehow to Persist Giantsize, you can be colossal with a +42 bonus to strength from race and size. Get the rollers graft and you can crush everything in a 30 foot by 60/90 foot rectangle every round for 16D6 damage. And as long as you're willing to limit yourself to skills, feats and PrCs that don't need INT, WIS or CHA based skills, you can still go War Hulk.
#10 wings_of_peace Jun 28, 2009 5:50:50	Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Monk 6/Shou Disciple 5/Frenzied Berserker 10/Bloodstorm Blade 4/Master Thrower 5/Thri-Keen 2/Mineral Warrior 1/Whatever else seems cool. Maybe Fighter for the free feat. Feats you want(Not including pre-reqs): POWER ATTACK, Rapid Shot (Extra attacks are good.), Shock Trooper, POWER ATTACK, Leap Attack, Improved Critical (Great Falchion), POWER ATTACK Your Ideal Weapon: Valorous Kaorti Great Falchion of Force: Crit Range 15-20 X4 You Power Attack Damage: [2x(Power attack)+4x(Frenzied Berserker)+3x(Leap Attack)]X2(Valorous)=18X Power Attack Damage Per Throw(As touch against creatures smaller than you due to Weak Spot master thrower trick. Have the party wizard permanently shrink you for extra goodness.) 4 Attacks (BaB) 2 Attacks (Martial Weapon Flurry) 1 Attack (Haste. Get it by any means necessary.) 1 Atack (Rapid Shot feat) Total Attacks per round: 8 Edit: Oh yeah and all that is with a minor range increment since you're throwing your weapon :D Edit 2: Arrange those classes for optimal BaB progression since it quits growing the same way once you hit epic levels. With Thri-Keen your max is 18 which still means a maximum damage per hit of 324 (Assuming no crit and that you pump up power attack to the max. If you want more damage just get a bunch of skill bonus items to jump and take something with no LA.)
#11 emy Jun 28, 2009 9:37:02	Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Monk 6 Problem spotted. Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Chaos Monk 6? Or be lawful and use that feat that makes you also count as chaotic to qualify for barbarian. [from Fiendish Codex I or II]
#12 risner Jun 28, 2009 18:25:32	ECL continuation of an old campaign Current idea is a very basic bbn20/warhulk10/hulking hurler3 LA+2 I take a med race I'll have him permanently enlarged to make the WH and HH available. Is it worth enlarging a large PC to Huge? Centaur in case the DM does something unpleasant (he's notorious for exploiting character weaknesses, and centaurs have issues with STAIRS and we're in Sigil...) You mean ECL 35, Epic Campaign. How are your Enlarge Person-ing a Medium to Huge? What is WH and HH? 3,000 gp Horseshoes give you flying.
#13 _v_ Jun 28, 2009 18:34:14	What is WH and HH? WH = WarHulk HH = Hulking Hurler
#14 wings_of_peace Jun 29, 2009 2:49:50	Problem spotted. Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Chaos Monk 6? Or be lawful and use that feat that makes you also count as chaotic to qualify for barbarian. [from Fiendish Codex I or II] Darnit you caught me. Dunno how I forgot that but yeah. That would definitely do the trick.
#15 jeice540 Jun 29, 2009 13:36:32	So... after a little looking I've stumbled on an idea that is just plain silly. I wouldn't have thought of it without a friend mentioning an item that made any creature medium sized when worn... with this option I thought... Mountain Giant ECL25/War Hulk10 Enlarge person with permanency making the it Gargantuan... Monkey grip making it able to wield Colossal weapons... Problem is I haven't been able to find the item yet... only spell that looks like it could do it is the WuJen spell "Minute Form" but it has a Personal range, and is 8th level...
#16 risner Jun 29, 2009 17:54:55	Mountain Giant ECL25/War Hulk10 Enlarge person with permanency making the it Gargantuan... Giant != Humanoid
#17 widow Jun 29, 2009 18:07:03	Well, I'm going to start by saying some common words: Mineral Warrior Lolth-Touched Half-Minotaur A great start, just need to add in the Anthropomorphic baleen whale from savage speices. It has 3 Racial HD (Full bab), no LA, +8 str plus other stat adds, and is large in size. I would go: Whale HD 3 Lion Totem Barb 1 Fighter 2 Frenzied Berserker 10 Ranger 1 (Favored Enemy) Hulking Hurler 3 Warhulk 15 Feats L1 Power Attack L3 Cleave F1 Destructive Rage F2 Intimidating Rage L6 Weapon Focus L9 Point Blank Shot L12 Leadership (Kaorti Fiend of Possession) L15 Might Makes right L18 Favored Enemy Power Attack L21 L24 L27 L30 L33 THe ranger is not needed, but favored power attack is brutal. Get a kaorti with the fiend of possession PrC. Not only can he possess your weapon to give it bonuses, but he can craft you a reason weapon. Pick a nice weapon with a 18-20 crit range and use the resin to make it a 4x crit damage weapon. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031014a It would be worth dropping one level of warhulk for Lolthe-Touched (or call yourself the Fury Whale going eberron). That will give you +6 str and con instead of just +2 str.
#18 jeice540 Jun 29, 2009 19:20:27	Giant != Humanoid ...aw