First Time Warlock - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

First Time Warlock

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
nubman76
Apr 28, 2008 3:13:32 I'm looking to optimize a warlock character for a new campaign. Any help would be awesome. I'm looking for ideas on what feats i should take, skills to invest into, gear, possible Prestige classes and basically helpful tricks that will make the character fun to play. Also any other books that would possibly have more invocations/info to expand this warlock. Thanks for any help that is given. I'm just really stoked to try out this new character class.
#2
Koenig
Apr 28, 2008 3:30:11 The Optimizer's Guide to Warlocks
The Glaivelock - A Mini-Guide

My next char is a Dragonborn Incarnate Construct Maug Glaivelock. Due to the Maug's size the Eldritch Glaive has a reach of 6 m.
#3
brxyn
Apr 28, 2008 4:01:31 Warlcok Information Compendium

this should also help.
#4
loganic1
Apr 28, 2008 5:49:44 I'll give you a few pointers anyways.

Although this sounds redundant
A warlocks main strength is that all his powers are unlimited, at will.

Whats that means?
A warlocks damage is capped. 9d6 basically. +2d6 with greater chausable. +3d6 hellfire warlock. another +3d6 (-1d6 to warlock EB) if you can convince your DM that bloodlines +hellfire PrC works.

14-16d6, maximized, 84-96. Using Eldritch glaive, buffs, items, you can optimize the number of attacks, but that can be said about most melee fighters. You don't even break 100 on a single hit. Although it might seem like a lot, it's not hard to find builds that could beat the probable 1152 you could possibly deal at lvl 20 in a single round.

Besides, your DM gets upset and creative when dealing with a straight burst damage dealer. (personal experience)
You would do better to exploit the greater invisibility/flight and other defensive measure and focus on summoning monsters/walls/general battlefield control. You won't break even lesser invisibility by summoning.
Also a lot easier to combat Antimagic field users, by putting walls to limit where they can apply their field.
#5
indeterminate
Apr 28, 2008 8:45:46
Whats that means?
A warlocks damage is capped. 9d6 basically. +2d6 with greater chausable. +3d6 hellfire warlock. another +3d6 (-1d6 to warlock EB) if you can convince your DM that bloodlines +hellfire PrC works.

Actually Hellfire Warlock is +2d6 per level, so total +6d6 before potential bloodline abuse.
#6
altpersona
Apr 28, 2008 9:06:13 warlock 14 = 7
hellfire = 6
bloodline = 7 (6 HF and 1 W)

or is it 8, 6 and 2..

anywho bloodlines would push both class's..

besure to get a restoration item to fix your con loss...
#7
thinblade
Apr 28, 2008 12:04:31 If you're just getting into warlock, I reccommend reading most of my Info Compilation (at least up through the invocations, skimming the feats and builds). To get you started, here's a little thing I put together on, IMO, the two most basic questions you need to answer when starting to build a warlock:

The Two Most Important Questions When Building Warlocks: by Thinblade

Introduction

Lately, I’ve found myself typing more or less the same thing over and over again for beginners wanting to know how to build a warlock. Since it’s a popular topic, I decided to write down my thoughts in a more coherent manner, the better to help those in need.

At the heart of any warlock build are two questions: melee or ranged, and Charisma or no Charisma.

Melee vs. Ranged

Most warlocks want to be in melee combat about as much as your average wizard does: namely, they don’t want it the least little bit. While your slightly better hitpoints (d6), and the ability to wear light armor help, no one would ever confuse a warlock with a fighter. Coupled with a lack of martial weapon proficiency and good combat-boosting buffs (magic weapon, divine power, et. al), one would think no warlock in their right mind would want to get into melee.

Prior to the release of Dragon Magic, you would be correct. Hideous blow, previously the only melee invocation, is indeed hideous. It requires a normal melee attack to hit, can be disrupted like any other invocation, and only gives one attack. No one in their right might took it. However, with Complete Mage came Eldritch Glaive, and a whole new world opened.

Eldritch Glaive is everything Hideous Blow should have been. It’s a touch attack, gives reach, and allows you to make iterative attacks. It has downsides as well (namely you can’t move while you do it and you can’t get extra attacks from things like haste), but it finally made warlocks viable in melee combat.

One of the first two choices you have to make is whether you want to aim at becoming what JanusJones calls a “glaivelock,” or whether you want to focus on ranged combat only. Note that while a glaivelock does not have to glaive all the time, many of your feats, invocations, and likely also levels in other classes will focus on one area, and not the other. Your stats will likely follow suit as you try to get prereqs for combat feats and make sure you can be effective in close combat. This is why you’ll want to make this choice at character creation, even though a pure (or mostly pure) warlock probably won’t be getting eldritch glaive until you swap another invocation for it a level 6.

Either kind of character is completely viable, so make your choice based on what you want to play, and what other characters are in your group. If you’re interested in glaivelocks, I cannot recommend enough JanusJones’s guide. You’ll find a link at the top of the page.

Charisma vs. No Charisma

A lot of people new to the warlock are under the impression that, just because the class description says that a high charisma is important to warlocks, that they need a high charisma. The truth is more complex: there are actually two kinds of warlock invocations: those that need charisma, and those that don’t. It is entirely possible to make a viable warlock and dump charisma, you just need to decide what you want your character to focus on.

Have a high charisma if you:
• want to use a lot of eldritch essences (Noxious Blast, Repelling Blast, Utterdark Blast)
• want to use invocations that require a save (Tenacious Plague, Word of Changing, Nightmares Made Real)
• want to get a saving throw bonus through Dark One’s Own Luck
• want to be a party face using beguiling influence, and need all the help you can get

Dump charisma if you:
• are focusing on 24 hour buffs (Fell Flight, all the +6 to skills invocations, Dark Foresight, Walk Unseen, Entropic Warding)
• are using invocations that do not require a save (Chilling Tentacles, Path of Shadows, Flee the Scene, Hellspawned Grace)

As you can see, a lot of the best invocations (Fell Flight, Flee the Scene, Chilling Tentacles, Walk Unseen) do not require charisma to be effective. Equally, a lot of the invocations that require saves are less than useful (Stony Grasp, Bewitching Blast, and Frightful Blast are all low-lights) The best save-requiring invocation is, far and away, Utterdark Blast. If you’re making it that far, UB by itself makes having a high charisma worth it. At lower levels, the choice is less clear-cut. Also, if you’re playing a good warlock, you might have some qualms throwing around negative energy at will.

Conclusion

I hope this discussion has cleared up what in my mind are the two primary questions a player must answer when designing a warlock. Everything else flows from the answer to melee vs ranged and charisma vs no charisma. Once you’ve decided, your statistics, your feats, your invocations, and everything else begins to become clear.
#8
loganic1
Apr 28, 2008 13:37:02
warlock 14 = 7
hellfire = 6
bloodline = 7 (6 HF and 1 W)

or is it 8, 6 and 2..

anywho bloodlines would push both class's..

besure to get a restoration item to fix your con loss...

Oops forgot. For some reason, people sometimes complain about how/why that works, which is why I didn't bother including it.

Warlock 8d6
Hellfire 6d6
Bloodlines 7d6
Greater chausable 2d6

23d6, maximized 138
breaks the 100 benchmark, but still relatively low for an optimized char.

Divine Power, Haste, Belt of battle ~ 10 attacks.
Greater Celerity for an extra 5 attacks
Favor of martyr if you dont want to be dazed afterwards.

Maximized (vitrolic usually) that 2070 dmg
#9
altpersona
Apr 28, 2008 17:17:33 dont forget the alter self item either, so you get all the easy to qualify for feats via human...

if you have dark invocations, you get any of the other non dark invoc's from extra invocation... picked on the fly...

on a side note, the last i saw they nerfed bloodlines pretty well, i dont recall how that effects warlocks abuse of it...
#10
loganic1
Apr 28, 2008 20:26:06 Sorry. Last I checked, which was a long time ago, bloodlines was being used to justify advancement of major class skills, sneak attack dmg, eldritch blast dmg, feats.

I remember feats and sneak were disqualified, and hellfire warlock advancement worked, but warlock itself was in some flux.

Besides, it's only 1d6 to squable over.

I forget what some of the bloodline/aberrant paragon combos were. those were quite nice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 nubman76 Apr 28, 2008 3:13:32	I'm looking to optimize a warlock character for a new campaign. Any help would be awesome. I'm looking for ideas on what feats i should take, skills to invest into, gear, possible Prestige classes and basically helpful tricks that will make the character fun to play. Also any other books that would possibly have more invocations/info to expand this warlock. Thanks for any help that is given. I'm just really stoked to try out this new character class.
#2 Koenig Apr 28, 2008 3:30:11	The Optimizer's Guide to Warlocks The Glaivelock - A Mini-Guide My next char is a Dragonborn Incarnate Construct Maug Glaivelock. Due to the Maug's size the Eldritch Glaive has a reach of 6 m.
#3 brxyn Apr 28, 2008 4:01:31	Warlcok Information Compendium this should also help.
#4 loganic1 Apr 28, 2008 5:49:44	I'll give you a few pointers anyways. Although this sounds redundant A warlocks main strength is that all his powers are unlimited, at will. Whats that means? A warlocks damage is capped. 9d6 basically. +2d6 with greater chausable. +3d6 hellfire warlock. another +3d6 (-1d6 to warlock EB) if you can convince your DM that bloodlines +hellfire PrC works. 14-16d6, maximized, 84-96. Using Eldritch glaive, buffs, items, you can optimize the number of attacks, but that can be said about most melee fighters. You don't even break 100 on a single hit. Although it might seem like a lot, it's not hard to find builds that could beat the probable 1152 you could possibly deal at lvl 20 in a single round. Besides, your DM gets upset and creative when dealing with a straight burst damage dealer. (personal experience) You would do better to exploit the greater invisibility/flight and other defensive measure and focus on summoning monsters/walls/general battlefield control. You won't break even lesser invisibility by summoning. Also a lot easier to combat Antimagic field users, by putting walls to limit where they can apply their field.
#5 indeterminate Apr 28, 2008 8:45:46	Whats that means? A warlocks damage is capped. 9d6 basically. +2d6 with greater chausable. +3d6 hellfire warlock. another +3d6 (-1d6 to warlock EB) if you can convince your DM that bloodlines +hellfire PrC works. Actually Hellfire Warlock is +2d6 per level, so total +6d6 before potential bloodline abuse.
#6 altpersona Apr 28, 2008 9:06:13	warlock 14 = 7 hellfire = 6 bloodline = 7 (6 HF and 1 W) or is it 8, 6 and 2.. anywho bloodlines would push both class's.. besure to get a restoration item to fix your con loss...
#7 thinblade Apr 28, 2008 12:04:31	If you're just getting into warlock, I reccommend reading most of my Info Compilation (at least up through the invocations, skimming the feats and builds). To get you started, here's a little thing I put together on, IMO, the two most basic questions you need to answer when starting to build a warlock: The Two Most Important Questions When Building Warlocks: by Thinblade Introduction Lately, I’ve found myself typing more or less the same thing over and over again for beginners wanting to know how to build a warlock. Since it’s a popular topic, I decided to write down my thoughts in a more coherent manner, the better to help those in need. At the heart of any warlock build are two questions: melee or ranged, and Charisma or no Charisma. Melee vs. Ranged Most warlocks want to be in melee combat about as much as your average wizard does: namely, they don’t want it the least little bit. While your slightly better hitpoints (d6), and the ability to wear light armor help, no one would ever confuse a warlock with a fighter. Coupled with a lack of martial weapon proficiency and good combat-boosting buffs (magic weapon, divine power, et. al), one would think no warlock in their right mind would want to get into melee. Prior to the release of Dragon Magic, you would be correct. Hideous blow, previously the only melee invocation, is indeed hideous. It requires a normal melee attack to hit, can be disrupted like any other invocation, and only gives one attack. No one in their right might took it. However, with Complete Mage came Eldritch Glaive, and a whole new world opened. Eldritch Glaive is everything Hideous Blow should have been. It’s a touch attack, gives reach, and allows you to make iterative attacks. It has downsides as well (namely you can’t move while you do it and you can’t get extra attacks from things like haste), but it finally made warlocks viable in melee combat. One of the first two choices you have to make is whether you want to aim at becoming what JanusJones calls a “glaivelock,” or whether you want to focus on ranged combat only. Note that while a glaivelock does not have to glaive all the time, many of your feats, invocations, and likely also levels in other classes will focus on one area, and not the other. Your stats will likely follow suit as you try to get prereqs for combat feats and make sure you can be effective in close combat. This is why you’ll want to make this choice at character creation, even though a pure (or mostly pure) warlock probably won’t be getting eldritch glaive until you swap another invocation for it a level 6. Either kind of character is completely viable, so make your choice based on what you want to play, and what other characters are in your group. If you’re interested in glaivelocks, I cannot recommend enough JanusJones’s guide. You’ll find a link at the top of the page. Charisma vs. No Charisma A lot of people new to the warlock are under the impression that, just because the class description says that a high charisma is important to warlocks, that they need a high charisma. The truth is more complex: there are actually two kinds of warlock invocations: those that need charisma, and those that don’t. It is entirely possible to make a viable warlock and dump charisma, you just need to decide what you want your character to focus on. Have a high charisma if you: • want to use a lot of eldritch essences (Noxious Blast, Repelling Blast, Utterdark Blast) • want to use invocations that require a save (Tenacious Plague, Word of Changing, Nightmares Made Real) • want to get a saving throw bonus through Dark One’s Own Luck • want to be a party face using beguiling influence, and need all the help you can get Dump charisma if you: • are focusing on 24 hour buffs (Fell Flight, all the +6 to skills invocations, Dark Foresight, Walk Unseen, Entropic Warding) • are using invocations that do not require a save (Chilling Tentacles, Path of Shadows, Flee the Scene, Hellspawned Grace) As you can see, a lot of the best invocations (Fell Flight, Flee the Scene, Chilling Tentacles, Walk Unseen) do not require charisma to be effective. Equally, a lot of the invocations that require saves are less than useful (Stony Grasp, Bewitching Blast, and Frightful Blast are all low-lights) The best save-requiring invocation is, far and away, Utterdark Blast. If you’re making it that far, UB by itself makes having a high charisma worth it. At lower levels, the choice is less clear-cut. Also, if you’re playing a good warlock, you might have some qualms throwing around negative energy at will. Conclusion I hope this discussion has cleared up what in my mind are the two primary questions a player must answer when designing a warlock. Everything else flows from the answer to melee vs ranged and charisma vs no charisma. Once you’ve decided, your statistics, your feats, your invocations, and everything else begins to become clear.
#8 loganic1 Apr 28, 2008 13:37:02	warlock 14 = 7 hellfire = 6 bloodline = 7 (6 HF and 1 W) or is it 8, 6 and 2.. anywho bloodlines would push both class's.. besure to get a restoration item to fix your con loss... Oops forgot. For some reason, people sometimes complain about how/why that works, which is why I didn't bother including it. Warlock 8d6 Hellfire 6d6 Bloodlines 7d6 Greater chausable 2d6 23d6, maximized 138 breaks the 100 benchmark, but still relatively low for an optimized char. Divine Power, Haste, Belt of battle ~ 10 attacks. Greater Celerity for an extra 5 attacks Favor of martyr if you dont want to be dazed afterwards. Maximized (vitrolic usually) that 2070 dmg
#9 altpersona Apr 28, 2008 17:17:33	dont forget the alter self item either, so you get all the easy to qualify for feats via human... if you have dark invocations, you get any of the other non dark invoc's from extra invocation... picked on the fly... on a side note, the last i saw they nerfed bloodlines pretty well, i dont recall how that effects warlocks abuse of it...
#10 loganic1 Apr 28, 2008 20:26:06	Sorry. Last I checked, which was a long time ago, bloodlines was being used to justify advancement of major class skills, sneak attack dmg, eldritch blast dmg, feats. I remember feats and sneak were disqualified, and hellfire warlock advancement worked, but warlock itself was in some flux. Besides, it's only 1d6 to squable over. I forget what some of the bloodline/aberrant paragon combos were. those were quite nice.