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flat-footed

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
concerro
Jul 07, 2009 17:08:00 1. I would like to know all the possible ways to make someone flat-footed after combat has began. I know if you make them do a balance check and they dont have 5 ranks in balance they are flat-footed, but I think of any other ways. I also don't feel like looking through every PrC and magic item to do it.

2. I thought marbles from Forgotten Realms could make someone flat-footed, but that was a long time ago. Now I can't seem to be able to find them. If they exist does anyone know what page they are on?
#2
minneyar
Jul 07, 2009 18:08:52 Off the top of my head, the fourth-level White Raven maneuver (from the Tome of Battle), White Raven Strike, deals and extra 4d6 damage and leaves the target flat-footed until the start of its next turn.
#3
concerro
Jul 07, 2009 22:01:44 I found another one.
Sapphire Nightmare Strike (Bo9S): lvl 1 manuever. Standard action to attack and catch foe flat-footed.
#4
wildfire393
Jul 07, 2009 22:30:42 A couple good ones I have found:

If you Feint against a target and they fail to beat your Bluff Check with a Sense Motive Check, they're flat-footed for your next attack. The Invisible Blade PrC can do this as a move action at 3rd level and as a Free action (once per round) at 5th level.

The Shadowblade PrC has the ability to cloak a melee weapon in shadow and then use Unseen Weapon: Unexpected Strike to make the next attack with that weapon hit flat-footed.
#5
flawless_p
Jul 07, 2009 22:48:38 If you take Improved Feint and then get to level 6 in Beguiler you get to feint as a swift action.

Which this is more useful for a primarily sneak attack build or improving the DC for spells as it only lasts for your turn.
#6
concerro
Jul 07, 2009 23:25:57 Feint denies dex, but does not make you flat-footed at least with my copy of the book, or the SRD. I may have an older version of the book however.

The Shadowblade class also makes them lose dex to AC without making them flat-footed does the same thing.

I appreciate the help.

If it matters I am trying to find a way to do an Iaijutsu strike more than once during an encounter, and it requires the opponent to be flat-footed.
#7
lotusblossom
Jul 08, 2009 0:11:18 The skill trick Acrobatic Backstab, from Complete Scoundrel, says if you tumble through an enemy's space, it's flat-footed for the next attack you make against it on your current turn. You can only use each skill trick once per encounter, unfortunately, but it only costs 2 skill points to buy.
#8
rymosrac
Jul 08, 2009 0:25:40 A couple of my favorites are the feat Surprising Riposte from Drow of the Underdark, which renders a target flat-footed for one round after you sucessfully feint against them and then hit. This works reliably, but requires you to invest in a way to feint without breaking your ability to attack effectively. Obviously the invisible blade comes to mind.

The other, is forcing an opponent with less than 5 ranks in balance to be in an area that requires a balance check. This is remarkably reliable - very few stock monsters or npcs have many ranks invested in balance, though this may change if your DM sees you taking advantage for too long of it. Grease is probably the easiest way to force a target to balance.
#9
wraithstrike
Jul 08, 2009 0:38:22 What book is invisible blade in?
#10
temetnosce
Jul 08, 2009 0:52:47
If it matters I am trying to find a way to do an Iaijutsu strike more than once during an encounter, and it requires the opponent to be flat-footed.

I seem to recall carrying one of those quivers that hold large quantities of weapons can at least let you take advantage of your full number of attacks for it (I could be wrong however, I haven't looked into optimizing that in a while). Alternatively, you could just carry multiple sheathed katanas.

As for rendering them flat footed, well off the top of my head I'd suggest either using some kind of invisibility/blinking item, or summoning something to flank. (alternatively, you could use an item to darken the area around you then use something else to get darksight). I should probably recall more ways to do this, but I've been up over 24 hours.
#11
rymosrac
Jul 08, 2009 3:24:46 Invisibility, Blinking, Darkness, and Flanking will not generate a flat-footed target. the first three may deny DEX to AC, and the last will allow Sneak Attack, but none actually generate a flat-footed condition.

Invisible Blade is in Complete Warrior.
#12
concerro
Jul 08, 2009 4:25:02 The skill trick combined with a few certain maneuvers from ToB should allow me to do what I need.
#13
flawless_p
Jul 08, 2009 5:33:48
Feint denies dex, but does not make you flat-footed at least with my copy of the book, or the SRD. I may have an older version of the book however.

The Shadowblade class also makes them lose dex to AC without making them flat-footed does the same thing.

I appreciate the help.

If it matters I am trying to find a way to do an Iaijutsu strike more than once during an encounter, and it requires the opponent to be flat-footed.

My first DnD game ever was based in OA and my friend made a Iaijutsu focused Samurai and we used to have the party Monk Stunning Fist people.

Also the flavor on this feat screams use me Flick of the Wrist from one of the Completes. Requires 17 dex though and its another one of those once per encounter things.
#14
tordak
Jul 08, 2009 8:16:41 Raptor School, a tactical feat from Complete Warrior, can make an opponent flat-footed as one of the benefits, but you need a cloak.

Flick of Wrist is in Complete Warrior also,

Mercurial Strikes, which can be found in the Dragon Compendium, provides benefit similar to Flick of Wrist.

Low blow (and Improved Low Blow), from Races of Faerûn.
#15
flawless_p
Jul 08, 2009 14:36:24 Flick of the Wrist only applies to light weapons. But I would house rule its use with the Katana since It's basically the point of the Katana.
#16
wings_of_peace
Jul 09, 2009 6:04:35 Something along the lines of Factotum/Duskblade/Magical Trickster/Iaijutsu Master will let you use your iaijutsu strike quite alot if you rely on skill tricks for making the foe flatfooted at the expense of spells. Remember to wield a gnome razor. Every attack with them counts as drawing your weapon so as you get more attacks you can use them all when you catch the foe flatfooted.

Edit: Or if you have a really nice dm convince them warlock invocations should count for magical tricksters ability to refresh skilltricks. It's cheap but with just 1 level of warlock you could then use the skill trick any number of times per day.
#17
wildfire393
Jul 09, 2009 9:38:13 I found one (Tome of Battle page 35):

Gloom Razor:
Requirements: Hide 9 Ranks, BAB +6, Shadow Blade Feat (which in turn requires 1 Shadow Hand Stance), 2 Shadow Hand Maneuvers. This means it either takes 6 Feats (2 Bonus Maneuvers, Martial Stance, Shadow Blade, and Gloom Razor) or 2 Feats plus at least one level of Swordsage.
Benefit: You gain access to three tactical options.
Lingering Gloom: If your opponent misses due to concealment, make a Hide Check versus their Spot Check, if you succeed, you have the benefit of Invisibility against that opponent next round.
Shadow Slip: Whenever you deal damage with a Melee attack to an opponent you flank, you can roll a DC 20 Tumble check as a free action to move into any space adjacent to that opponent without provoking any attacks of opportunity.
Moving Shadows: Whenever you deal damage with a Melee attack to an opponent and then move at least 10 feet during your turn, you may treat that opponent as flat footed for your first melee attack next turn.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 concerro Jul 07, 2009 17:08:00	1. I would like to know all the possible ways to make someone flat-footed after combat has began. I know if you make them do a balance check and they dont have 5 ranks in balance they are flat-footed, but I think of any other ways. I also don't feel like looking through every PrC and magic item to do it. 2. I thought marbles from Forgotten Realms could make someone flat-footed, but that was a long time ago. Now I can't seem to be able to find them. If they exist does anyone know what page they are on?
#2 minneyar Jul 07, 2009 18:08:52	Off the top of my head, the fourth-level White Raven maneuver (from the Tome of Battle), White Raven Strike, deals and extra 4d6 damage and leaves the target flat-footed until the start of its next turn.
#3 concerro Jul 07, 2009 22:01:44	I found another one. Sapphire Nightmare Strike (Bo9S): lvl 1 manuever. Standard action to attack and catch foe flat-footed.
#4 wildfire393 Jul 07, 2009 22:30:42	A couple good ones I have found: If you Feint against a target and they fail to beat your Bluff Check with a Sense Motive Check, they're flat-footed for your next attack. The Invisible Blade PrC can do this as a move action at 3rd level and as a Free action (once per round) at 5th level. The Shadowblade PrC has the ability to cloak a melee weapon in shadow and then use Unseen Weapon: Unexpected Strike to make the next attack with that weapon hit flat-footed.
#5 flawless_p Jul 07, 2009 22:48:38	If you take Improved Feint and then get to level 6 in Beguiler you get to feint as a swift action. Which this is more useful for a primarily sneak attack build or improving the DC for spells as it only lasts for your turn.
#6 concerro Jul 07, 2009 23:25:57	Feint denies dex, but does not make you flat-footed at least with my copy of the book, or the SRD. I may have an older version of the book however. The Shadowblade class also makes them lose dex to AC without making them flat-footed does the same thing. I appreciate the help. If it matters I am trying to find a way to do an Iaijutsu strike more than once during an encounter, and it requires the opponent to be flat-footed.
#7 lotusblossom Jul 08, 2009 0:11:18	The skill trick Acrobatic Backstab, from Complete Scoundrel, says if you tumble through an enemy's space, it's flat-footed for the next attack you make against it on your current turn. You can only use each skill trick once per encounter, unfortunately, but it only costs 2 skill points to buy.
#8 rymosrac Jul 08, 2009 0:25:40	A couple of my favorites are the feat Surprising Riposte from Drow of the Underdark, which renders a target flat-footed for one round after you sucessfully feint against them and then hit. This works reliably, but requires you to invest in a way to feint without breaking your ability to attack effectively. Obviously the invisible blade comes to mind. The other, is forcing an opponent with less than 5 ranks in balance to be in an area that requires a balance check. This is remarkably reliable - very few stock monsters or npcs have many ranks invested in balance, though this may change if your DM sees you taking advantage for too long of it. Grease is probably the easiest way to force a target to balance.
#9 wraithstrike Jul 08, 2009 0:38:22	What book is invisible blade in?
#10 temetnosce Jul 08, 2009 0:52:47	If it matters I am trying to find a way to do an Iaijutsu strike more than once during an encounter, and it requires the opponent to be flat-footed. I seem to recall carrying one of those quivers that hold large quantities of weapons can at least let you take advantage of your full number of attacks for it (I could be wrong however, I haven't looked into optimizing that in a while). Alternatively, you could just carry multiple sheathed katanas. As for rendering them flat footed, well off the top of my head I'd suggest either using some kind of invisibility/blinking item, or summoning something to flank. (alternatively, you could use an item to darken the area around you then use something else to get darksight). I should probably recall more ways to do this, but I've been up over 24 hours.
#11 rymosrac Jul 08, 2009 3:24:46	Invisibility, Blinking, Darkness, and Flanking will not generate a flat-footed target. the first three may deny DEX to AC, and the last will allow Sneak Attack, but none actually generate a flat-footed condition. Invisible Blade is in Complete Warrior.
#12 concerro Jul 08, 2009 4:25:02	The skill trick combined with a few certain maneuvers from ToB should allow me to do what I need.
#13 flawless_p Jul 08, 2009 5:33:48	Feint denies dex, but does not make you flat-footed at least with my copy of the book, or the SRD. I may have an older version of the book however. The Shadowblade class also makes them lose dex to AC without making them flat-footed does the same thing. I appreciate the help. If it matters I am trying to find a way to do an Iaijutsu strike more than once during an encounter, and it requires the opponent to be flat-footed. My first DnD game ever was based in OA and my friend made a Iaijutsu focused Samurai and we used to have the party Monk Stunning Fist people. Also the flavor on this feat screams use me Flick of the Wrist from one of the Completes. Requires 17 dex though and its another one of those once per encounter things.
#14 tordak Jul 08, 2009 8:16:41	Raptor School, a tactical feat from Complete Warrior, can make an opponent flat-footed as one of the benefits, but you need a cloak. Flick of Wrist is in Complete Warrior also, Mercurial Strikes, which can be found in the Dragon Compendium, provides benefit similar to Flick of Wrist. Low blow (and Improved Low Blow), from Races of Faerûn.
#15 flawless_p Jul 08, 2009 14:36:24	Flick of the Wrist only applies to light weapons. But I would house rule its use with the Katana since It's basically the point of the Katana.
#16 wings_of_peace Jul 09, 2009 6:04:35	Something along the lines of Factotum/Duskblade/Magical Trickster/Iaijutsu Master will let you use your iaijutsu strike quite alot if you rely on skill tricks for making the foe flatfooted at the expense of spells. Remember to wield a gnome razor. Every attack with them counts as drawing your weapon so as you get more attacks you can use them all when you catch the foe flatfooted. Edit: Or if you have a really nice dm convince them warlock invocations should count for magical tricksters ability to refresh skilltricks. It's cheap but with just 1 level of warlock you could then use the skill trick any number of times per day.
#17 wildfire393 Jul 09, 2009 9:38:13	I found one (Tome of Battle page 35): Gloom Razor: Requirements: Hide 9 Ranks, BAB +6, Shadow Blade Feat (which in turn requires 1 Shadow Hand Stance), 2 Shadow Hand Maneuvers. This means it either takes 6 Feats (2 Bonus Maneuvers, Martial Stance, Shadow Blade, and Gloom Razor) or 2 Feats plus at least one level of Swordsage. Benefit: You gain access to three tactical options. Lingering Gloom: If your opponent misses due to concealment, make a Hide Check versus their Spot Check, if you succeed, you have the benefit of Invisibility against that opponent next round. Shadow Slip: Whenever you deal damage with a Melee attack to an opponent you flank, you can roll a DC 20 Tumble check as a free action to move into any space adjacent to that opponent without provoking any attacks of opportunity. Moving Shadows: Whenever you deal damage with a Melee attack to an opponent and then move at least 10 feet during your turn, you may treat that opponent as flat footed for your first melee attack next turn.