Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 SIKBUZ Mar 25, 2009 17:41:18	This is designed as a slippery Sniper Archer build.. Strikes from the shadows, moves and strikes again until all enemies have perished.. Build is based on 36pt buy, 3.5 WOTC books except for Psionics and Tome of Battle, and only goes up to 16th level as the optimum level - this is where the character will finish. I really wanted this to be an Elven build but could not work with the lack of a Feat. So Human: 1. Ranger (Favoured Enemy - Orc, Feats: Dodge, Combat Reflexes) 2. Fighter (Feats: Mobility) 3. Fighter (Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot) 4. Ranger (Feats: Archery Style - Rapid Shot) 5. Ranger (Feats: Ranger Bonus - Endurance) 6. Horizon Walker (Terrain: Plains, Feats: Weapon Focus - Comp Longbow) 7. Horizon Walker (Terrain: Marsh) 8. Shadowdancer 9. Shadowdancer (Feats: Woodland Archer) 10. Order of the Bow Initiate 11. Horizon Walker (Terrain: Underground) 12. Horizon Walker (Terrain: Plains, Feats: Able Sniper) 13. Horizon Walker (Terrain: Desert) 14. Horizon Walker (Planar Terrain: Shifting) 15. Order of the Bow Initiate (Feats: Shot on the Run) 16. Order of the Bow Initiate Stats in order: 14, 20, 14, 14, 10, 10 This build will have decent Fort & Reflex saves with all sorts of benefits: From Horizon Walker: Desert - Immune to Fatigue, +1 to attack & damage vs Desert Creatures Forest - +4 to Hide, +1 to attack & damage vs Forest Creatures Marsh - +4 Move Silently, +1 to attack & damage vs Marsh Creatures Plains - +4 to Spot, +1 to attack & damage vs Plains Creatures Underground - 60ft Darkvision or boost to 120ft, +1 to attack & damage vs Underground Creatures Shifting - Use Dimension Door Caster = Character level, once every 1d4 rounds, +1 to attack & damage vs outsiders & Elementals from a shifting plane From Shadowdancer: Hide in Plain Sight (Shadow within 10ft) Evasion Darkvision 60ft Uncanny Dodge From Order of the Bow Initiate: +2d8 Precision Damage Close Combat Shot Only Magic Item so far: Collar of Umbral Metamorphisis for bonus to Hide & Move Silently Hide Skill at 16th: +35 MS Skill at 16th: +33 The idea is to Snipe opponents with Magical arrows that do either 1d8 or 3d8 damage depending on distance. Dimension Door away when they too get close, when you want to attack from another side or to fool them into attacking a random shadow. The idea is to strike and hide, move then strike and hide using Woodland Archer, etc. You would most likely spot people coming and if you didn't you are never flat footed thanks to uncanny dodgy. Evasion helps with area attacks by wizards. Hide in Plain Sight from two sources so you can Hide anywhere.. So help with this Archer build please? So how can this be better and what magic items/enchantments on the bow will make this a killer build? Eg, An item to give Improved Invisibility? Thanks for reading and considering
#2 emansdrawkcab Mar 25, 2009 19:37:02	This recipe needs more Deepwood Sniper, as well as some wands of auto-crit and that one where you can sneak attack from any distance. Check this out, look for the sniper build. Archived?!? This is an outrage!
#3 sofawall Mar 25, 2009 19:50:04	At least it's not white screened. Anyway, as for Order of the Bow Initiate, most of the time... Well, 'll let old fishyface tell you.
#4 SIKBUZ Mar 25, 2009 19:58:56	This recipe needs more Deepwood Sniper, as well as some wands of auto-crit and that one where you can sneak attack from any distance. Check this out, look for the sniper build. Archived?!? This is an outrage! Ahh.. cool, haven't seen that one.. Problem being, Masters of the Wild is 3.0 is it not? Has the Deepwood Sniper been updated to 3.5? At least it's not white screened. Anyway, as for Order of the Bow Initiate, most of the time... Well, 'll let old fishyface tell you. .. So just the 3 levels giving +2d8 damage and the Close Combat shot is bad? Cheers
#5 sofawall Mar 25, 2009 20:18:56	If Deepwoods Sniper hasn't been updated, you ARE allowed to use the one from Masters of the Wild. Just in case you didn't know. And anyway, as for Order of the Bow Initiate, you get the 2d8 as a standard action, so it's usually, not always, but usually, better to go for something else. If you're going to be sneaky anyway, why not just go rogue, or something with sudden strike?
#6 SIKBUZ Mar 25, 2009 20:51:17	True.. What else would fill the gap left by Order of the Bow initiate assuming I am not allowed Deepwood Sniper?
#7 dr_rocktopus Mar 25, 2009 21:19:04	Cragtop archer, but I suspect the racial there will nail you. I can't emphasize how good cragtop archer is though!
#8 SIKBUZ Mar 25, 2009 21:31:25	Cragtop archer, but I suspect the racial there will nail you. I can't emphasize how good cragtop archer is though! Not really. Just need the Far Shot & Mountain Warrior Feats and skills to qualify.. It is good, but will it benefit this build? No Sneak/Precision Damage but no range penalties at 4th level.. But I really have only 3 levels to play with to keep the flavour of the build.. Good idea though
#9 Balthanon Mar 25, 2009 22:19:09	You could go with 3 levels of Scout plus Swift Hunter and pick up 2d6 skirmish damage and another favored enemy to replace the 2d8 from Order of the Bow Initiate. If you're picking up the amulet that gives you the dark template constantly a lot of your shadowdancer abilities are going to be duplicated by that as well.
#10 SIKBUZ Mar 25, 2009 22:38:05	Yeah, bummer on the Collar but it's a great way to get a further +8 and +6 to Hide and Move Silently.. Would rather have the Dark template tacked on but don't know how to get it.. If anybody knows of a good way??? Scout sounds like it might go well with Shot on the Run too. But it does lose 1 point of BAB Does anybody know if Deepwood Sniper has been updated to 3.5?
#11 Balthanon Mar 25, 2009 23:00:58	Deepwood Sniper has not been updated-- that's why it's still useable from Masters of the Wild. With regards to the collar, what I was actually implying was that it can more or less replace your shadowdancer levels. It gives you the dark creature template, which includes: [INDENT]Size and Type: Type and size are unchanged. Dark creatures encountered away from the Plane of Shadow have the extraplanar subtype. Speed: As base creature, +10 feet to all modes of movement. Special Qualities: A dark creature retains all the special qualities of the base creature and also gains the following. — Darkvision 60 ft. — Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): Use the Hide skill even while being observed (except in natural daylight, the area of a daylight spell, or a similar ettect). — Resistance to cold 10. — Superior low-light vision. Skills: Same as the base creature, plus Hide +8 and Move Silently +6.[/INDENT] That includes everything that shadowdancer gives you except evasion-- and you could pick that up with 5 levels of scout (replacing 3 OotBI + 2 shadowdancer).
#12 dr_rocktopus Mar 25, 2009 23:43:14	Anything that lets you put distances between you and your foes is great. I think a cragtop archer with Up The Walls would be hilarious in an urban setting. What race are you settled on? Could we discuss the hilarity of a Warforged+Incarnate Construct+Shadow template?
#13 SIKBUZ Mar 26, 2009 2:06:03	Thats what I'm using the Planar Terrrain Mastery for Horizon Walker is for.. Dimension Door every 1d4 rounds. Race-wise, I'm not sure. This is relatively Feat intensive so I'm loathe to use Flaws and wouldn't know which flaws to take (I don't use them) Shadow Template would be preferrable to Dark Template and I'm not sold on Scout. I think Cragtop Archer is a bit better but the Deepwood Sniper definately sounds good
#14 sofawall Mar 26, 2009 2:45:24	Take the one that gives you a penalty on melee attack rolls. Free feat for archers. :D And what is the shadow template? I've only ever head or the Dark one from the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis.
#15 SIKBUZ Mar 26, 2009 3:11:09	SHADOW CREATURES Shadow creatures dwell on the Plane of Shadow, sometimes crossing into other planes where the barriers between dimensions are weak. Just as parts of the Plane of Shadow resemble a strange, distorted version of the Material Plane, shadow creatures superficially resemble creatures from the Material Plane. Shadow Creatures are darker, more elusive, and spookier than their material counterparts. Grays and blacks are the most common colors, with whites and yellows rarely seen. They are not to be confused with shadows (undead creatures that often dwell on the Plane of Shadow). Other creatures native to the Plane of Shadow exist that have stronger or weaker connections to the energies of that place (such as the shadow mastiff) and do not follow this template. CREATING A SHADOW CREATURE “Shadow” is an acquired or inherited template that can be added to any corporeal creature (referred to hereafter as the “base creature”). The creature’s type changes to “magical beast”. A shadow creature uses all the creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here. Hit Dice: Increase the base creature’s HD by one die size, to a maximum of d12. Speed: Same as base creature x 1 1/2 its base land speed. Base Land Speed Shadow Speed Bonus* 0 ft.–5 ft. +0 ft. 10 ft.–15 ft. +5 ft. 20 ft.–25 ft. +10 ft. 30 ft.–35 ft. +15 ft. 40 ft.–45 ft.* +20 ft. 50 ft.–55 ft. +25 ft. 60 ft.* +30 ft. * The fastest base land speed a creature can move without magical aid before a savage speed bonus. Special Attacks: The shadow creature gains one additional supernatural ability for every 4 HD (minimum 1) as described below. These abilities can either be chosen from the special attacks list or the special qualities list. —Cause Fear (Su): Shadow creatures can use cause fear once per day, as the spell (caster level equals the shadow creature’s Hit Dice). The save DC against this ability is equal to 10 + 1/2 shadow creature’s HD + shadow creatures Cha modifier. Special Qualities: A shadow creature retains all the special qualities of the base creature, plus the following special qualities. —Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision. —Resistance to cold 5 + 1 per HD (maximum 20). —Shadow Blend (Su): In any condition of illumination other than full daylight, shadow creatures can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment. Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell, does not negate this ability. A daylight spell, however, will. The shadow creature also gains one additional supernatural ability for every 4 HD as described below (minimum 1). These abilities can either be chosen from the special attacks list or the special qualities list. —+2 luck bonus on all saving throws. —Damage reduction 5/magic. —Evasion (Su): As the rogue class feature. —Mirror Image (Su): Shadow creatures can use mirror image once per day, as the spell (caster level equals the shadow creature’s Hit Dice). —Plane Shift (Su): Shadow creatures can use plane shift once per day, as the spell, except that the creature can only transport itself to and from the Plane of Shadow. —Fast healing 2. If the base creature has one or more of these special qualities, use the better value. Skills: Shadow creatures have a +6 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. Otherwise same as base creature. Challenge Rating: HD 4 or less, as base creature +1; HD 5 to 12, as base creature +2; HD 13 to 20, as base creature +3; HD 21 to 28, as base creature +4. Level Adjustment: Same as base the base creature +2. This is the template..
#16 sofawall Mar 26, 2009 3:27:39	Hmm, I like Dark template, as money is always better spent than LA. Still, Shadow might work with buyoff.
#17 dr_rocktopus Mar 26, 2009 3:49:55	There's a template from SS(pg120) called incarnate construct that applies a -2 LA. Now, it has serious downsides, and can only hit constructs. Which for the most part made it unusable for PCs unless you rolled a Maug (which I consider to be the finest of fine, because I'm a mad-man). This is a trick I picked up from Endarire. As I read it, the incarnate construct template works jussssstttt fine on warforged. LA 0 +2 (shadow) -2 (incarnate construct). It's hard to say if this works or not, though, since incarnate construct has a minimum LA of 0, and it is actually ordering sensitive. This works only depending on your GM's read of the phrase "base creature." There's a 67% chance that he'll assume it means post-templating, but he might rule that the warforged is the base creature, and so you don't lose your shadow template abilities. Unlikely, but still, it's a cool trick to know about.
#18 sofawall Mar 26, 2009 3:50:57	What penalties does incarnate have? EDIT: Ah, I see, penalties for most constructs, but for Warforged, it's basically 2 LA for immunity to poison and no breathing*. Nice. *And other awesome Warforged immunities I may have forgotten.
#19 dr_rocktopus Mar 26, 2009 4:10:12	Basically, yes. Bear in mind that the incarnate construct template cannot reduce your LA to below 0, so the trick is order sensitive, and as a result of some of the wording of the template may not work. GM Discretion is highly. HIGHLY advised.
#20 SIKBUZ Mar 26, 2009 4:43:16	Reason I like the Shadow Template: Increase of HD by one die size, to a maximum of d12. Base Land Speed +10 ft. Shadow Blend (Su): In any condition of illumination other than full daylight, shadow creatures can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment. Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell, does not negate this ability. A daylight spell will however. Damage reduction 5/magic. Fast healing 2. Total concealment giving +20 (mobile) to +40 (immobile) to Hide. Awesome for this build. Tack on the Dark Template for it's bonuses too
#21 carnivore Mar 26, 2009 4:44:55	since you will have a way to get out of Melee combat... Horizon Walker 6...... you really dont need Order of the Bow Initiate.... try this instead: Wood Elf Ranger 3/ Fighter 4/ Shadow Dancer 2/ Horizon Walker 7 Ranger 1 .................... Education, Track(Ranger bonus) Ranger 2 .................... Rapid Shot(Ranger bonus) Ranger 3 .................... Dodge, Endurance(Ranger bonus) Fighter 1 .................... Weapon Focus(Composite Longbow)(Fighter bonus) Fighter 2 .................... Combat Reflexes(Fighter bonus) Fighter 3 .................... Mobility Fighter 4 .................... Weapon Specialization(Composite Longbow)(Fighter bonus) Shadow Dancer 1 Shadow Dancer 2 ......... Knowledge Devotion Horizon Walker 1 Horizon Walker 2 Horizon Walker 3 .......... Ranged Weapon Mastery Horizon Walker 4 Horizon Walker 5 Horizon Walker 6 .......... Woodland Archer Horizon Walker 7...........Cavernous (Planar): You gain tremorsense with a 30-foot range better Knowledge Skills(Knowledge Devotion will be maxed out... usually an additional +5 Insight to Attack and Damage), Gain Tremorsense(useful to avoid being surprised) Wood Elf Ranger 3/ Fighter 2/ Pious Templar 3/ Shadow Dancer 2/ Horizon Walker 6 Ranger 1 .................... True Believer(Ehlonna), Track(Ranger bonus) Ranger 2 .................... Rapid Shot(Ranger bonus) Ranger 3 .................... Dodge , Endurance(Ranger bonus) Fighter 1 .................... Mobility(Fighter bonus) Fighter 2 .................... Weapon Focus(Longbow)(Fighter bonus) Pious Templar 1 ........... Combat Reflexes Pious Templar 2 Pious Templar 3 ........... Weapon Specialize(Longbow)(Pious Templar bonus) Shadow Dancer 1 ......... Knowledge Devotion Shadow Dancer 2 Horizon Walker 1 Horizon Walker 2 .......... Ranged Weapon Mastery Horizon Walker 3 Horizon Walker 4 Horizon Walker 5 .......... Woodland Archer Horizon Walker 6 Allows you to use Raptor Arrows(MIC) 6006gp (Bane vs Everything, and Returning), and other Relics, also gives Mettle, DR 1/-, some additional Divine Spells :D
#22 dr_rocktopus Mar 26, 2009 4:47:14	I often wonder if a umbrella is sufficient to allow a shadow creature to disappear. if so, I need to roll out Mary Poppins.
#23 sofawall Mar 26, 2009 4:50:48	I think that would still be full daylight, even standing underneath an umbrella. Otherwise, jump into your shadow, as the conveniently seem to have omitted that line from this ver of HiPS.
#24 SIKBUZ Mar 26, 2009 5:02:55	LA buyoff is allowed I often wonder if a umbrella is sufficient to allow a shadow creature to disappear. if so, I need to roll out Mary Poppins. It could :D Haha but I was thinking something where you can create your own darkness could be good.. since you will have a way to get out of Melee combat... Horizon Walker 6...... you really dont need Order of the Bow Initiate.... try this instead: Wood Elf Ranger 3/ Fighter 4/ Shadow Dancer 2/ Horizon Walker 7 Ranger 1 .................... Education, Track(Ranger bonus) Ranger 2 .................... Rapid Shot(Ranger bonus) Ranger 3 .................... Dodge, Endurance(Ranger bonus) Fighter 1 .................... Weapon Focus(Composite Longbow)(Fighter bonus) Fighter 2 .................... Combat Reflexes(Fighter bonus) Fighter 3 .................... Mobility Fighter 4 .................... Weapon Specialization(Composite Longbow)(Fighter bonus) Shadow Dancer 1 Shadow Dancer 2 ......... Knowledge Devotion Horizon Walker 1 Horizon Walker 2 Horizon Walker 3 .......... Ranged Weapon Mastery Horizon Walker 4 Horizon Walker 5 Horizon Walker 6 .......... Woodland Archer Horizon Walker 7...........Cavernous (Planar): You gain tremorsense with a 30-foot range better Knowledge Skills(Knowledge Devotion will be maxed out... usually an additional +5 Insight to Attack and Damage), Gain Tremorsense(useful to avoid being surprised) Wood Elf Ranger 3/ Fighter 2/ Pious Templar 3/ Shadow Dancer 2/ Horizon Walker 6 Ranger 1 .................... True Believer(Ehlonna), Track(Ranger bonus) Ranger 2 .................... Rapid Shot(Ranger bonus) Ranger 3 .................... Dodge , Endurance(Ranger bonus) Fighter 1 .................... Mobility(Fighter bonus) Fighter 2 .................... Weapon Focus(Longbow)(Fighter bonus) Pious Templar 1 ........... Combat Reflexes Pious Templar 2 Pious Templar 3 ........... Weapon Specialize(Longbow)(Pious Templar bonus) Shadow Dancer 1 ......... Knowledge Devotion Shadow Dancer 2 Horizon Walker 1 Horizon Walker 2 .......... Ranged Weapon Mastery Horizon Walker 3 Horizon Walker 4 Horizon Walker 5 .......... Woodland Archer Horizon Walker 6 Allows you to use Raptor Arrows(MIC) 6006gp (Bane vs Everything, and Returning), and other Relics, also gives Mettle, DR 1/-, some additional Divine Spells :D Haha I was wondering when you would get here Carnivore.. Could you plan the builds for 16 levels? This is a build I will be playing and we wont head higher than 16th.. I was thinking of adjusting the initial build to take out Order of the Bow Initiate and replacing with either: Deepwood Sniper Or I also had an idea to change race to Drow..and use Kinslayer (Drow of The Underdark) - Gives Mettle to suppliment Evasion, and Rage. Then two levels of deepwood Sniper for Crit 19-20/x4 with a Composite Longbow.
#25 dr_rocktopus Mar 26, 2009 5:07:54	Drooooowww Noooaaaooo Nooooo Noo Noaaaooooo. No droooowwww.
#26 dr_rocktopus Mar 26, 2009 5:08:42	I think that would still be full daylight, even standing underneath an umbrella. Otherwise, jump into your shadow, as the conveniently seem to have omitted that line from this ver of HiPS. +1 If I run a PbP campaign, will you bring such a creature as this?
#27 carnivore Mar 26, 2009 5:15:07	Lesser Drow would work... with Kinslayer(i dont remember the reqs for it).... also use Fighter Hit-and-run Variant(DotUD)..get Dex to Damage vs Flatfooted i gave full 16th lvl builds :D
#28 sofawall Mar 26, 2009 5:18:45	+1 If I run a PbP campaign, will you bring such a creature as this? What, just jump into my shadow? Of course, pair it with sneak attack/sudden strike/iajitsu focus, death ensues.
#29 dr_rocktopus Mar 26, 2009 5:22:28	As long as you're using a shadow\dark creature, I'm down. If I do run it, it will likely be a baroque steam-punk game.... I have a setting my players call Jakerron that works pretty well.
#30 sofawall Mar 26, 2009 5:24:08	Baroque Steam-Punk? :D
#31 dr_rocktopus Mar 26, 2009 13:55:29	Yeppp, baroque steam punk. I really enjoy the victorian feel of normal steampunk, but I just can't help feeling that baroque would be awesome, and in the process of converting eberron to planescape-compatibility I rolled it over into a steam-punk setting and put a little more emphasis on the gritty-gothic elements. If you've read Perdido Street Station, you understand a lot of the influences I work with.
#32 sofawall Mar 26, 2009 15:07:12	Well, I do love Eberron... When would this hypothetical PbP game take place :D
#33 SIKBUZ Mar 26, 2009 15:20:32	Lesser Drow would work... with Kinslayer(i dont remember the reqs for it).... also use Fighter Hit-and-run Variant(DotUD)..get Dex to Damage vs Flatfooted i gave full 16th lvl builds :D Ooops.. You did too - I was reading them late last night.. What book is Lesser Drow in? If it's not in a book it will likely not be allowed. As long as you're using a shadow\dark creature, I'm down. If I do run it, it will likely be a baroque steam-punk game.... I have a setting my players call Jakerron that works pretty well. huh? But I'm glad I could bring you in on the beauty that is Shadow Creature Dr
#34 carnivore Mar 26, 2009 15:30:27	Elf, Dark (lesser)(i.e., Drow (lesser))(drow that do not have a level adjustment) (PGF p191) +2 Dex, –2 Con Fav Class: Wizard(males) –or– Cleric(females) • Medium Size • 30’ movement • Immunity to magic sleep • +2 Racial bonus on Listen, Search, & Spot checks. • Automatic Search check if an Elf passes within 5’ of a secret or concealed door • +2 Racial bonus to saves vs. Enchantments • Darkvision 60’ • Light Blindness – daylight blinds the drow for 1 round; then a –1 to Attack rolls, Spot checks, & Search checks in bright light • Automatic proficiency with Hand-Crossbows, Rapier, & Shortsword. • +2 Racial bonus on Will save vs. spells & spell-like abilities • Cast the following spells 1/day at Character level:[indent] Dancing Lights Daze Touch of Fatigue[/indent] :D
#35 SIKBUZ Mar 26, 2009 16:04:35	Oooo... Thank you So basically I need one flaw and the Shadow Creature template. Much to the Dr's prompting I am still tempted by Cragtop Archer.. I might make another build using that and Deepwood Sniper. Ranger 6/ Fighter 4/ Cragtop Archer 4/ Deepwood Sniper 2 would work: Pump Strength and Wisdom (for ranger spells) with Feat Zen Archery Use Hunters Mercy Spell from the Ranger list and Deepwood Sniper ability Lvl 2 to increase Crit Multiplier on a composite longbow to Auto-Crit X4 A 20th level build would be more Ranger 6/Fighter 2/ Deepwood Sniper 2/ Cragtop Archer 4/ Horizon Walker 6 Stay WELL out of range, fire LONG range arrows and Autocrit with high-powered arrows. Might look into this further later :D