I'm kidding, kidding, only kidding!
Probably evocation, since you can duplicate it with shadow evocations, and I hear a lot of people argue in favor of necromancy, but... well, the second one is really hard for me. I often pick conjuration, but I often regret it later. Transmution and abjuration are ones you cannot drop, obviously. I suppose you could conceivably afford to lose necromancy, but I just feel weird dropping that for a variety of reasons.
And to nitpick your build, I would get a 3rd level of swiftblade before taking abjurant champion. Automatic quickened haste is nice.
Start out with two levels of Monk, the Carmedine Monk feat and the UA School that gives you dodge and Mobility: Sure, you are going to loose 2 CL throughout but you will get INT to AC, HP, Skillpoints and save two feats - thus having your first, third and 6th level feat free (+ you bonus feat - but one feat should go into combat Casting)
furthermore i would also (depending whether you will play your char from lower levels on or start at higher levels) suggest taking 3 levels of swiftblade instead of just two at the beginning b/c free haste is worth the delay of Abjurant Champ goodies
Also important: look after the Luminous Armor Spells in the book of Exalted Deeds - they give you Armor Bonus (do not mess with your Monk AC) and are abjurations - and thus grow with your Abj. Champ Levels
Another Approach, since you won't have 9th level spells anyways could be:
Monk1/Wizard4/Spellsword1/Swiftblade3/Abjurant Champ5/Swiftblade6
still using the focused transmuter , loosing lots of casting (youll end up with wizard 16 Casting - 8th level spells - still enough for a three round timestop via Swiftblade) but you can definatly do alot - practiced spellcaster ornets you CL 20 ... feats could look like this (human!)
1st Carmedine Monk, Dodge (Monk Bonus), Able Learner (Human Bonus)
2nd Improved Initiative (Wiz bonus)
3rd Mobility
6th Practiced Spellcaster Wizard
7th Spring attack (swiftblade bonus)
9th Combat Casting
12th Combat reflexes
15th Elusive Attack
18th free
I want a focused Transmuter for a new campaign. What schools i should give up for a wizard heading Wizard 6 / Swiftblade 2 / AbCh 5 / Swiftblade 7?
Enchantment, Evocation, and your choice of Necromancy or Illusion.
The choice of Illusion or Necromancy would boil down to which you are going to allowed to get more creative with. Both have some decent buffs, debuffs, and crowd control options. The former gives you back Contingency and leaves you the option of making Valets (read:simulacrum) while the latter gives you Undead and all the joy's and pains of them. It also means you can put your own Vampiric Touches in your Bloodstone/Spellstoring weapon(s).
Really, I'd put that choice down to the flavor of gish (personality wise) you're going for. If he's 'flamboyant', go illusion, if he's morose go necromancy. Optimization wise, arguments could be made for (and against) either.
allthough the golden rules of CO forbid this suggestion BUT:
Start out with two levels of Monk, the Carmedine Monk feat and the UA School that gives you dodge and Mobility: Sure, you are going to loose 2 CL throughout but you will get INT to AC, HP, Skillpoints and save two feats - thus having your first, third and 6th level feat free (+ you bonus feat - but one feat should go into combat Casting)
furthermore i would also (depending whether you will play your char from lower levels on or start at higher levels) suggest taking 3 levels of swiftblade instead of just two at the beginning b/c free haste is worth the delay of Abjurant Champ goodies
Also important: look after the Luminous Armor Spells in the book of Exalted Deeds - they give you Armor Bonus (do not mess with your Monk AC) and are abjurations - and thus grow with your Abj. Champ Levels
Another Approach, since you won't have 9th level spells anyways could be:
Monk1/Wizard4/Spellsword1/Swiftblade3/Abjurant Champ5/Swiftblade6
still using the focused transmuter , loosing lots of casting (youll end up with wizard 16 Casting - 8th level spells - still enough for a three round timestop via Swiftblade) but you can definatly do alot - practiced spellcaster ornets you CL 20 ... feats could look like this (human!)
1st Carmedine Monk, Dodge (Monk Bonus), Able Learner (Human Bonus)
2nd Improved Initiative (Wiz bonus)
3rd Mobility
6th Practiced Spellcaster Wizard
7th Spring attack (swiftblade bonus)
9th Combat Casting
12th Combat reflexes
15th Elusive Attack
18th free
Monk1/Wizard4/Spellsword1/Swiftblade3/Abjurant Champ5/Swiftblade6
this build doesn't meet the requirements for spellsword
Abjuration.
That actually isn't a bad idea... He's always going to have CL issues to dispel, and other casters can generate a lot of the important effects necessary.
That actually isn't a bad idea... He's always going to have CL issues to dispel, and other casters can generate a lot of the important effects necessary.
Abjurant Champion requires ability to cast 1st level abjuration, I looked that up when he mentioned it ;p. Not to mention AbjCh's Shield and Greater Luminous Armor kick ass.
Abjurant Champion requires ability to cast 1st level abjuration, I looked that up when he mentioned it ;p. Not to mention AbjCh's Shield and Greater Luminous Armor kick ass.
Heh, maybe I should've read the 1st post instead of the thread title? :embarrass
Abjuration.
I'm kidding, kidding, only kidding!
Probably evocation, since you can duplicate it with shadow evocations, and I hear a lot of people argue in favor of necromancy, but... well, the second one is really hard for me. I often pick conjuration, but I often regret it later. Transmution and abjuration are ones you cannot drop, obviously. I suppose you could conceivably afford to lose necromancy, but I just feel weird dropping that for a variety of reasons.
*Hands you a paper bag*
I suggest you start wearing this around here if you're going to say things like that.
Gnome illusionists aside, dropping conjuration is insanity cubed to the power of eight.
Ho-ho! A gauntlet hitting the ground I think I hear. We could perhaps find a willing judge to adjudicate an arena match?
I don't feel the need to fight in an arena match just to defend my statement that banning conjuration is lunacy.
While it might be fun, it's not worth the hassle. I've never battled someone online, and I'm rather skeptical of the process having any meaningful end.
Even if you let conjuration count as 2 dropped schools I still wouldn't drop it.
I didn't mean to sound childish, I was actually curious as to if a wizard with conjuration banned could beat one without conjuration banned.
I dunno, I'm not really an expert.
It sure is a lot harder harming a pesky wizard inside a shaped antimagic field in a wall of stone with a IotSV double warding up when you don't have conjuration.
I did say conjuration is a bad drop. I do not recommend it. Dropping schools tends to be painful. The only easy one is evocation, and by easy I don't mean easy.
I love conj. too much.
Hrm. I think I could do it. It'd certainly be interesting. This is a shaped AMF you say? I presume you mean shaped to exclude the caster of it?
I did say conjuration is a bad drop. I do not recommend it. Dropping schools tends to be painful. The only easy one is evocation, and by easy I don't mean easy.
More like shaped AMFs. Let's just say I have a familiar and leave it at that
Enchantment is also easy to lose. It's the smallest school and most of its spells are mind-effecting will save types of spells, a simple mind blank pretty much screws over this school. Plus since you're losing spell levels you won't be able to scale you spell DCs with the savign throws of anything you'll fight.
The third school will involve a bit of a little loss. My choice would be necromancy, sure it has some nice no save debuffs but you can easily get those from the conjuration school while getting a superior spell list from conjuration.
Conj. Has gate. Call someone else to debuff for you :D
Trans. Shapechange. End of discussion.
Abj. Need to keep
Div. Can't drop.
Illu. Need for shadow evoc.
Evoc. Banned
Nec. Banned
Ench. Banned
is what I'd do.
I suggest evocation, enchantment and necromancy, in that order.
As a gish you cannot give up Illusion. Why? because thats where your defenses are. As a gish you really really want: Mirror Image, Improved Invisibility, Mislead, Displacement and all those other nifty "I go into melee safely" things.
I suggest evocation, enchantment and necromancy, in that order.
The converse of that is that Necromancy has Ray of Enfeeb/clumsiness, both will constitute you getting hit less/taking less damage and in the latter case killing your opponent faster, it also has Vampiric Touch for self healing, false life for temp hitpoints, Animate/Create for meatshields on the cheap, Enervation (one of the best debuffs in the game)...
I'm not saying I'd always pick Necromancy over Illusion as a gish. I'm saying that both have a lot of options, and it isn't an easy choice, at least not on mechanics.
Nercomancy is a fun but ultimately limited school. Also hurting necromancy is its lack of good high level spells.
The converse of that is that Necromancy has Ray of Enfeeb/clumsiness, both will constitute you getting hit less/taking less damage and in the latter case killing your opponent faster, it also has Vampiric Touch for self healing, false life for temp hitpoints, Animate/Create for meatshields on the cheap, Enervation (one of the best debuffs in the game)...
I'm not saying I'd always pick Necromancy over Illusion as a gish. I'm saying that both have a lot of options, and it isn't an easy choice, at least not on mechanics.
Although you mention a lot of nice spells, I don't see them as especially "gish-ish". False life is definantly a gish spell, but its kind of on the weak side. The rest are not really gish-spells any more than say summon monster and dispel magic.
I agree though, that if you want debuffs you should definalty keep necromancy. I just personally don't see debuffs as very gishish
Illusion is needed for the shadow evocation line of spells (hello contingency), greater mirror image, silent image, displacement, simulacrum, and for its overall flexibility.
Nercomancy is a fun but ultimately limited school. Also hurting necromancy is its lack of good high level spells.
While necromancy doesn't have a 9th that's worth a dang, Gish or not, it does have 8ths - 5ths that are, some seem much more attuned to a gish than non-gish. Veil of Undeath, for example, is persistable and gets you immunity to like 10 of the worst conditions you'd possibly face as a gish. You've got several of the best touch attack spells in the game, which can be channeled. A lot of Rays for ranged attacks when you can't get into Melee. Plus Debuffs, SoL's, and Undead. Which gives you options, something every caster (Gish or not), needs as much as they can get.
Illusion is a great school, I'm not arguing against it, it, too does much of the above (in it's own way). Greater Mirror Image, Superior Invis, Simulacrum and Shadow X are all impossible to dismiss (amongst others). I just can't see how all you people are so easily dismissing the benefits (specifically to a gish) from necromancy.
I agree though, that if you want debuffs you should definalty keep necromancy. I just personally don't see debuffs as very gishish
Maybe I play my gishes differently. I use a lot of channeled or retributive spells and battlefield control in addition to self-buffs and utility. I also like keeping debuffs for the mobs I just can't hit, or that hit too hard or fast for me to keep up with. Debuffs also help the other people in the party do their jobs better.
Also, I disagree. Astral Projection is a famously abusable 9th level necromancy spell, and there are others. Certainly, it's no time stop, but it's an excellent spell.
Great Gish spells:
Shield (abj)
Prot from Align (abj)
True Strike (Div)
Grease (conj)
Alter Self (trans)
Enlarge Person (trans)
False Life (nec)
Blur (ill)
Invis (ill)
Mirror Image (ill)
Bull's Str/Bear's End/Cat's Grace (trans)
Displacement (ill)
vampiric touch (nec)
Protection from Energy (abj)
Heroism (ench)
Rage (ench)
Haste (trans)
Slow (trans)
That is just 1st-3rd level. Out of all of those the only Conj spell I put was Grease for purposes of grappled by large creatures.
Also, I disagree. Astral Projection is a famously abusable 9th level necromancy spell, and there are others. Certainly, it's no time stop, but it's an excellent spell.
Sorry, I forgot Astral Projection was Necromancy, for some reason I thought it was Conj. It is replaceable with a planar binding spell though (Nightmare's for example, can do it as a spell-like for you). I will, however, withdraw my statement and more correctly say that Necromancy has one useful 9th level spell for a Gish.