In the spirit of Treantmonk's thread, here is my take on a focused transmuter "GOD".
I've put the accent on mass buffing and debuffing, even if I banned Necromancy (more on that later).
Here is the build:
LG Glimmerskin Halfling Transmuter 5(focused specialist(transmutation), fighter feats and spell versatility variants)/Combat Medic 5/Sacred Exorcist 10
(in this order: Transmuter 5, combat Medic 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/Combat Medic +4/Sacred Exorcist +9)
Alignment: LG
Banned Schools: Enchantement, Necromacy, Illusion
Scores (32 point buy):
STR 6
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 18
WIS 12
CHA 10
Feats:
1.Dodge, Combat Casting (flaw:frail), Arcane Disciple(healing) (flaw:vulnerable), Improved initiative
3.Spell Focus(Transmutation)
6.Greater Spell Focus (Transmutation)
9.Divine Ward
12.Exalted Familiar (Lantern Archon)
15.Metamagic School Focus
18.Spell Penetration
A couple of notes:
- As you can notice, the character is heavily "divine" flavoured, almost paladinesque.
- I have banned Illusion instead of Evocation. That's because a) I doubt self buff like contingency can be emulated by shadow evocation/greater shadow evocation, and b) I can regain key spells like invisibility via the spell versatility variant from UA. I'm not planning to be a blaster in any shape or form.
- I have banned Necromancy, for flavour reasons mainly, but I can regain useful (and non evidently "evil") debuffs via the spell versatility variant from UA.
I guess I'm going to use the "domain granted power" from Complete Champion instead variant instead, it fits the flavour like a glove.
Any idea for the domain power?
You indeed can mimic Contingency with Greater shadow evocation...
I can see two possible interpretation:
- A shadow spell uses power from the shadow plane to "build" the spell, creating the same effect with a different mechanism. The only "illusion" in this is that you make it seem like another spell visually, like a fireball or whatever.
A buff spell "self-casted" will work with this interpretation.
- A shadow spell creates the illusion of a spell, giving it more "realism" with shadow stuff. In this case, the spell works if you belive it is working.
It seems only natural that the caster know the spell he is casting is an illusion, so a buff spell won't work on him.
If I prefer the second, is a matter of RAI, or more specifically of RAIBM (Rules As Intended By Me, since I'm often the DM of my group :D)
Having saved the feat, take Craft Contingent Spell and drop Evocation. You now have more familiar-like things than before with no risk of XP loss, better access to contingent magic, and all the Illusion spells.
A few levels of Master Specialist would get you free Skill Focus: Spellcraft and Greater Spell Focus, freeing your 6th level feat as well.
Also, I tried Arcane Disciple: Healing with a Focused CONJURER and it didn't work out as well as I'd hoped. You should only do this if you have no other healer and healing belts will not suffice. I think it's worth it only once you have access to 6th level spells, and even then you're the wrong Focused Specialist for this feat. Save it for when you play a Focused Conjurer and don't clog your precious general slot(s) with healing spells.
Out of curiousity, what level are you starting at? Lormador is right that unless you're dropping sixth level spells for Heals a la Combat Medic, you're going to be spending a lot of general slots on healing spells (Although, since you can only cast each cure spell once per day, not that many, really).
Don't take Exalted Familiar: Lantern Archon. Just cast Call Faithful Servants and get dozens of them, if necessary.
Having saved the feat, take Craft Contingent Spell and drop Evocation. You now have more familiar-like things than before with no risk of XP loss, better access to contingent magic, and all the Illusion spells.
A few levels of Master Specialist would get you free Skill Focus: Spellcraft and Greater Spell Focus, freeing your 6th level feat as well.
Thanks for the advice, but I am one of the very few that actually like familiars, and what's not to like in a familiar that can:
- detect evil at will.
- cast Aid and Continual Flame (wich has a costly material component as a spell) at will.
- Has a permanent Magic Circle Against Evil.
- Can speak and understand any spoken language (Tongues).
- Can Greater Teleport (himself + 50 pounds object only) at will.
Plus, it is an Outsider and I can target him with my Alter Self, and similar spells, when needed (avoiding the stinky cheese if possible :D ).
Also, I won't drop Evocation for Illusion.
I think Evocation has some gems hidden in the crap-ton of ugly direct damage spells wich is mostly composed of. Very well-hidden gems, actually. :D
About the Master Specialist, while I think is a great dip class for a Transmuter, I don't have the space nor the need for it in my build.
Also, I tried Arcane Disciple: Healing with a Focused CONJURER and it didn't work out as well as I'd hoped. You should only do this if you have no other healer and healing belts will not suffice. I think it's worth it only once you have access to 6th level spells, and even then you're the wrong Focused Specialist for this feat. Save it for when you play a Focused Conjurer and don't clog your precious general slot(s) with healing spells.
Arcane Disciple: Healing is only to be able to qualify for Combat Medic, a great prestige class wich, at its fifth level, let you spontanously convert your 6th level slots into the "Heal" spell. Awesome when the s*** hit the fan.
All of this while giving Uncanny Dodge and other neat features for free too
If you can't find a domain power you like, take Spontaneous Divination. It's a good time.
Spontaneus Divination is definitely an option! Eh, can't figure why i hadn't thought of it
. Fits the RP nicely too. Out of curiousity, what level are you starting at? Lormador is right that unless you're dropping sixth level spells for Heals a la Combat Medic, you're going to be spending a lot of general slots on healing spells (Although, since you can only cast each cure spell once per day, not that many, really).
Like I said, I won't cast even one of my healing spells, I'm using the feat only to be able to do it, thus granting me the entry in the Combat Medic prestige class. Glimmerskin Halfling is there for the very same reason (heal as a class skill).
I like to think my build is playable from the get-go, but I may be wrong... Do you see any blatant problem with the progression?
Thanks for the responses everybody, keep the suggestions coming!
The spell versatility variant wouldn't have worked as you hoped anyways - since you can't use it to regain spells from prohibited schools (variant says you must already be able to prepare and cast the spell)
One option to replace Contingency is the Craft Contingency feat - worth considering - and fairly cheap if you use with low level spells (and you can have more than 1 up at a time)
You indeed can mimic Contingency with Greater shadow evocation...
The effects of Shadow Magic on spells that target yourself are not clear in the rules - and WOTC has released conflicting articles further clouding the issue. Furthermore - debates on the subject have not indicated any clear winner IMO.
You cannot count on any OP's DM sharing your interpretation.
I don't want to derail the thread - but here's the lowdown on Shadow Magic and why you should take any post suggesting the matter is resolved with a grain of salt...
(though technically I suppose - regardless of your position on the matter - Shadow Evocation does work to simulate Contingency at least 20% of the time - and if using it in "off-time", maybe this is enough)
The debate on Shadow magic
There is no doubt that contingency can be emulated with Shadow Evocation.
However, the debate rages on the effectiveness of it.
There are 2 primary schools of thought on the matter:
1) Shadow Evocation says if the target disbelieves the Shadow Evocation and it does not deal damage - there is only a 20% chance it will work at all. Since the caster knows it's an illusion - they are going to automatically disbelieve - and therefore there is an 80% chance you waste your spell.
2) Shadow Evocation says they disbelieve only if they make their saving throw. Since you can automatically fail any saving throw you want to, you can do so with your own Shadow spells (or forego the save altogether). The saving throw for Shadow spells should be considered optional. This can be explained by the caster understanding that Shadow Spells are at least partially real.
Naturally - WOTC does not do a very good job clearing this up - as they seem to contradict themselves:
THIS article talks about using Shadow Spells to simulate utility type spells and says "It's extremely unlikely that these types of spells will even be the subject of a Will save to disbelieve them."
THIS article talks about illusions and says, "The rules don't say so, but if you create an illusion that allows a saving throw for disbelief, you automatically disbelieve it (you know it isn't real because you created it)."
Each article seems to support the opposing view. Ugh!
My advice - either don't use Shadow Magic this way or at least check with your DM first. There is certainly not enough evidence to conclusively support either point of view. Assuming that your DM will allow something that you can't back up with the rules is a mistake.
There is no doubt that contingency can be emulated with Shadow Evocation.
However, the debate rages on the effectiveness of it.
There are 2 primary schools of thought on the matter:
1) Shadow Evocation says if the target disbelieves the Shadow Evocation and it does not deal damage - there is only a 20% chance it will work at all. Since the caster knows it's an illusion - they are going to automatically disbelieve - and therefore there is an 80% chance you waste your spell.
2) Shadow Evocation says they disbelieve only if they make their saving throw. Since you can automatically fail any saving throw you want to, you can do so with your own Shadow spells (or forego the save altogether). The saving throw for Shadow spells should be considered optional. This can be explained by the caster understanding that Shadow Spells are at least partially real.
Naturally - WOTC does not do a very good job clearing this up - as they seem to contradict themselves:
THIS article talks about using Shadow Spells to simulate utility type spells and says "It's extremely unlikely that these types of spells will even be the subject of a Will save to disbelieve them."
THIS article talks about illusions and says, "The rules don't say so, but if you create an illusion that allows a saving throw for disbelief, you automatically disbelieve it (you know it isn't real because you created it)."
Each article seems to support the opposing view. Ugh!
My advice - either don't use Shadow Magic this way or at least check with your DM first. There is certainly not enough evidence to conclusively support either point of view. Assuming that your DM will allow something that you can't back up with the rules is a mistake.
As for the build - I'm not sure how Metamagic School Focus helps a build without any metamagic feats...
Yes, that can be a issue...:D
I had Extend spell at a time in the build, but I switched it and never noticed the inconsistency. What would you suggest to get instead?
The spell versatility variant wouldn't have worked as you hoped anyways - since you can't use it to regain spells from prohibited schools (variant says you must already be able to prepare and cast the spell)
Eh, I was very VERY sleepy at the time, and now I'm questioning the fact that I was sober too...:embarrass
One option to replace Contingency is the Craft Contingency feat - worth considering - and fairly cheap if you use with low level spells (and you can have more than 1 up at a time)
I know, and is tempting, but I really like Evocation more then Illusion.
There are those little known spells like Great Thunderclap or Crushing Grip...
All in all is a matter of taste (expecially for a focused specialist, I think)
The effects of Shadow Magic on spells that target yourself are not clear in the rules - and WOTC has released conflicting articles further clouding the issue. Furthermore - debates on the subject have not indicated any clear winner IMO.
You cannot count on any OP's DM sharing your interpretation.
I don't want to derail the thread - but here's the lowdown on Shadow Magic and why you should take any post suggesting the matter is resolved with a grain of salt...
(though technically I suppose - regardless of your position on the matter - Shadow Evocation does work to simulate Contingency at least 20% of the time - and if using it in "off-time", maybe this is enough)The debate on Shadow magic
There is no doubt that contingency can be emulated with Shadow Evocation.
However, the debate rages on the effectiveness of it.
There are 2 primary schools of thought on the matter:
1) Shadow Evocation says if the target disbelieves the Shadow Evocation and it does not deal damage - there is only a 20% chance it will work at all. Since the caster knows it's an illusion - they are going to automatically disbelieve - and therefore there is an 80% chance you waste your spell.
2) Shadow Evocation says they disbelieve only if they make their saving throw. Since you can automatically fail any saving throw you want to, you can do so with your own Shadow spells (or forego the save altogether). The saving throw for Shadow spells should be considered optional. This can be explained by the caster understanding that Shadow Spells are at least partially real.
Naturally - WOTC does not do a very good job clearing this up - as they seem to contradict themselves:
THIS article talks about using Shadow Spells to simulate utility type spells and says "It's extremely unlikely that these types of spells will even be the subject of a Will save to disbelieve them."
THIS article talks about illusions and says, "The rules don't say so, but if you create an illusion that allows a saving throw for disbelief, you automatically disbelieve it (you know it isn't real because you created it)."
Each article seems to support the opposing view. Ugh!
My advice - either don't use Shadow Magic this way or at least check with your DM first. There is certainly not enough evidence to conclusively support either point of view. Assuming that your DM will allow something that you can't back up with the rules is a mistake.
As for the build - I'm not sure how Metamagic School Focus helps a build without any metamagic feats...
The spell versatility variant wouldn't have worked as you hoped anyways - since you can't use it to regain spells from prohibited schools (variant says you must already be able to prepare and cast the spell)
Actually, the spell versatility variant is the one that lets you trade in getting bonus feats specifically to get spells from prohibited schools as transmutation spells. It only lets you grab a spell every 5 wizard levels, but it does indeed let you grab spells from prohibited schools: Check it out
Actually, the spell versatility variant is the one that lets you trade in getting bonus feats specifically to get spells from prohibited schools as transmutation spells. It only lets you grab a spell every 5 wizard levels, but it does indeed let you grab spells from prohibited schools: Check it out
Ah ah! I wasn't drunk! I knew it :D
Actually, the spell versatility variant is the one that lets you...Check it out[/url]
My mistake :embarrass
I know, and is tempting, but I really like Evocation more then Illusion.
There are those little known spells like Great Thunderclap or Crushing Grip...
All in all is a matter of taste (expecially for a focused specialist, I think)
Well, why not take Craft Contingent spell anyways? It stacks just fine with Contingency. (And for the record - I agree - Evocation has some very nice spells - and although it is a strong choice for schools to prohibit - it's not the only choice - it is a matter of taste as you say.)
Well, why not take Craft Contingent spell anyways? It stacks just fine with Contingency.
I'm not sure, but I'll keep that in mind.
Anyone is interessed in learning about how this guy fares in a Forgotten Realms campaign? like I said, I'm willing to compile a CO diary soon if anyone cares.
As for the shadow evocation contingency stuff, auto failing your saves to make a illusion more real to your char is cheese too. But depending on what you used it for could change ones position on it. For example, Shadow Evocation with an effect like mage armor (just example) added on would be fine...once triggered your opponent would roll his save to disbelieve once he attacked you and if he succeeds, its only 20% likely to give you the +4 armor bonus vs that target. It starts getting lame when you use it for create magic tattoo and like spells.
You worried about loosing charm person/monster, suggestion, and like spells?
Your facing some of the same issues I am right now and I agree with some of your positions on things Shigunaru. I didnt want to ban evocation for those specific evenly spread gems. Great thunderclap is rockin, defenstrating sphere will ruin medium sized and smaller creatures day, Howling chain will shut down some targets like evards can...all nicely spaced out in the spell levels too. I cant loose contingency because the craft contingency feat is cheesy...I think my DM thinks this way about it as well. I would hate to ban necromancy for the loss of magic jar but you could take that with your transmutation variant if you can get it high enough. Honestly, abjuration was my first choice to ban...I have many other casters in our group, let them dispel stuff. If loosing Illusion scramble to keep silent image someway.
I wouldn't say those are issues, Is just a matter of choice: I like Evocation and I'm willing to lose Illusion for it (anyway being invisible is more for the rogue-scout, which will be an arcane rogue if he is smart enough...); the other two schools I would have banned either way.
Here, done. I'll have my cake now :D .
As for the shadow evocation contingency stuff, auto failing your saves to make a illusion more real to your char is cheese too. But depending on what you used it for could change ones position on it. For example, Shadow Evocation with an effect like mage armor (just example) added on would be fine...once triggered your opponent would roll his save to disbelieve once he attacked you and if he succeeds, its only 20% likely to give you the +4 armor bonus vs that target. It starts getting lame when you use it for create magic tattoo and like spells.
You worried about loosing charm person/monster, suggestion, and like spells?
I like how you rule about getting Mage Armor via Shadow Evocation (apart from the fact that Mage Armor is a Conjuration spell, so a Shadow Conjuration might be a little better... :D).
Enchantement is not my style (though I know it can be pretty effective), so I'm not particulary worried about it.
Yep, more diaries = more good!
There are only 90 (yes thas right 90!!!) divination spells in the entirety of dnd 3.5. which means they all fit inside a bigby's magical spell book. for 12000 gp, and a single feat, you can have every divination spell in the entire game at your fingertips.
i cant count the number of times this has saved my group (see invisibility, locate object, clairvoyance and, eventually, true seeing have all helped ward off the sudden death of invisible ninja vampires and insane illusionist lich's)
also youll never lose anything again with spontaneous locate object.
Stuff.
I like your sig.:D (esp. the first sentence)
I like your sig.:D (esp. the first sentence)
+1
I'd steal it, but then we would have the same avatar and sig. :D
I like how you rule about getting Mage Armor via Shadow Evocation (apart from the fact that Mage Armor is a Conjuration spell, so a Shadow Conjuration might be a little better... :D).
I always do that ...dammit.